Very Interesting Problem - X800GTO 512MB (not O/C)

[hrdwair]

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Mobo: MSI RS482M4
Processor: AMD K8 Athlon64 3200+ (2GHz)
RAM: DDR 400 (1x512MB, 1x1024MB)
Power Supply: Best Power (somewhere between 400-500)
Hard Drives: 1-Western Digital SATA 250MB, 2-Seagate PATA 40GB
OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon X800GTO 512MB (400MHz :: PCI-E_16)
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I recently purchased a new video card (the X800GTO listed above), installed it, booted up Windows XP, Windows then notified that it Found New Hardware, and successfully determined the new card.

I ran the Installation Driver CD that came with the card, selected the ATI Easy Install, and allowed it to install the necessary drivers. Rebooted the system. I then installed the TRIXX overclocking utility that came on the same CD, ran it, the countdown display went 3..2..1...then the Sapphire 'S' logo began spinning, and this is what happened:

ERROR 1:

1. 5 seconds later, the card began making a loud noise, like the fan was spinning a lot faster
2. Everything froze, then the monitor "clicked" in and out (went black for a few seconds, then reverted to the original display) several times, finally ending with a complete freeze, requiring a reboot.


I thought maybe it was just the program causing this, so I loaded up some games:

Guild Wars - game started fine, increased graphics to max, played the game for about 3 minutes, then closed the game :: no problems
Hitman Blood Money (with newest patch) - got through intro movie sequences, then performed ERROR 1 (listed above) before reaching main menu :: reboot required

I tried Hitman 3 times, and ERROR 1 occured all 3 times. So I went to ATI's website, downloaded and installed the new Catalyst 6.5 drivers, reboot the system, tried Hitman again, and the same problems occured. I uninstalled all the drivers, reinstalled Catalyst 6.5 drivers, loaded up Hitman, got to the main menu this time, and this is what happened:

ERROR 2:

1. The card began making a loud noise, like the fan was spinning a lot faster
2. Started the game (on LOW graphic settings)
3. About a minute into playing, computer froze, with colored lines appearing on the screen, and X800GT fan still omitting a loud noise


The following games were tested afterwards:
Unreal Tournament - ERROR 1 while connecting to server
TRIXX application - ERROR 2 after 3..2..1..'S' logo
Swat 4 - VERY HIGH settings :: no problems, other than loud fan noises
Armadillo Run Demo - ERROR 1 after 30min of gameplay
GTA:SA - VERY HIGH settings (2xAA) :: no problems, other than loud fan noises
Hitman Blood Money - ERROR 1


If anyone has any ideas on what might be causing this, I'd love to hear them. My previous video card was the built-in Radeon EXPRESS 200. It ran all the above games fine (except for Hitman Blood Money, which ran very slow, but still somewhat playable). Any assistance is greatly appreciated, as I am somewhat confused on what might be causing this (I'm thinking it's software-related). Thanks.

[zekrahminator]

I think you're PARTLY right about it being software related. The ATI drivers are hacking your fan settings, and setting them really low, due to all the fan noise complaints ATI has been getting. This is solved by downloading and running ATItool when you have the chance. After you're in ATItool, make a profile with the fan running as high as you like (I reccomend a value that isn't too loud but still gets the job done). I'm also betting that once you run ATItool, it will report rather high temperatures...hence your freezes and colored lines and reboots. It also explains why error 2 happens, ATI drivers realize that temperature are too high and turn on the fan to compensate for the high temperatures. So as a fail safe, make sure that the cooler is SECURE on your card. If it is secure, you downloaded ATItool, you're running fast fan speeds, and you're STILL having problems, you might want to invest in a better cooler, such as the Zalman VF-700CU.

[trog100]

take it apart and make sure the gpu is making proper contact with heatsink.. it looks to me like it isnt..

trog

[i_am_mustang_man]

prolly not sitting right b/w the heatsink and gpu. your signs are symptoms of this, coupled with non-ideal drivers. gpu heats up like crazy, hs/f starts kicking it up like crazy, but no avail, cuz the hs isn't taking any heat!!!

or a bad card

[hrdwair]

I think you're PARTLY right about it being software related. The ATI drivers are hacking your fan settings, and setting them really low, due to all the fan noise complaints ATI has been getting. This is solved by downloading and running ATItool when you have the chance. After you're in ATItool, make a profile with the fan running as high as you like (I reccomend a value that isn't too loud but still gets the job done). I'm also betting that once you run ATItool, it will report rather high temperatures...hence your freezes and colored lines and reboots. It also explains why error 2 happens, ATI drivers realize that temperature are too high and turn on the fan to compensate for the high temperatures. So as a fail safe, make sure that the cooler is SECURE on your card. If it is secure, you downloaded ATItool, you're running fast fan speeds, and you're STILL having problems, you might want to invest in a better cooler, such as the Zalman VF-700CU.

I tried ATItool, temperature average readings were as follows:
GPU tempTemp Chip temp
No activity6151
Hitman (main menu)7062
Hitman (in game-LOW)7365
Hitman (in game-ULTRA HIGH)7565

No matter what the graphic settings were at, after a while, the game froze and ERROR 1 occured. I will try increasing fan speeds to a higher value (no activity is 9%, in-game is upwards of 60%).


take it apart and make sure the gpu is making proper contact with heatsink.. it looks to me like it isnt..

I don't want to open the card, as any damage can be placed on me doing so when/if I return it.


prolly not sitting right b/w the heatsink and gpu. your signs are symptoms of this, coupled with non-ideal drivers. gpu heats up like crazy, hs/f starts kicking it up like crazy, but no avail, cuz the hs isn't taking any heat!!!

or a bad card

Possibly a bad card, I don't know.



EDIT (added to original post): The card is placed in a PCI-E_16 slot

[trog100]

there is no obviouse explanation as to your problem.. thow it could be your possibly dubious psu.. some aint quiet what they claim to be.. yours sounds like it could fit in that category.. he he

trog

[Ketxxx]

1. whats the +12v amp rating on that psu?
2. check to see if there is a bios option to disable onboard graphics
3. remove hsf and clean thermal crap off, apply some nice AS ceramique and refit cooler
4. some GTO cards have an external power connection, does yours? if it does, PLUG IT IN!
5. set a 3D fan speed of 80% with atitool.
6. did you uninstall the drivers for your onboard graphics before installing the new card?
7. chances are you screwed something royally in XP, format is the only surefire way to eliminate software driver problems
8. if that lot dont work, give up. take the damn card back and get another one :D

[zekrahminator]

Ketxxx, add "buy super huge aftermarket cooler" to your list :p.

[Ketxxx]

no point in buying the cooler right away if the card is duff :p

[GLD]

I own a Sapphire X800GTO Fireblade Edition. Great card imho. It does not use an ext. power connector and the 512meg cards don't either, so that is not the cause. First off, is your power supply decent? Make sure you onboard video is disabled. Go to ATi website. Get the Net Framework they have there. Get the cat-uninstaller (and run it this time, and every month as ATi releases new drivers) and get the newest 6.5 drivers. Don't mess around with the old ones on the disk. Then run ATi tool if needed. Good Luck!

[hrdwair]

1. whats the +12v amp rating on that psu?
Not sure...is there a program that can easily tell me this?

2. check to see if there is a bios option to disable onboard graphics
The onboard video card (Radeon XPRESS 200) drivers have been uninstalled. How do I check to see if a disabling option is listed in the BIOS?

3. remove hsf and clean thermal crap off, apply some nice AS ceramique and refit cooler
I don't want to be taking the card apart. The warranty will be completely void if I do this.

4. some GTO cards have an external power connection, does yours? if it does, PLUG IT IN!
Mine does not have such a power connection. I checked it myself and the box makes no mention of it.

5. set a 3D fan speed of 80% with atitool.
I have used ATItool, and ERROR 1 occurs when the Core reaches ~420Mhz when testing max core. The max memory test gets the memory up to 450Mhz without freezing, and possibly even higher (I stopped it after it reached 450, which took 5 minutes). As for the fan speed, anything set to above 50% makes the usual loud noise, anything set to above 70% or so makes a really loud noise and I'm not sure whether this is normal or not. Don't know whether I should risk putting it at 80%.[/U][/U]

6. did you uninstall the drivers for your onboard graphics before installing the new card?
At first, no. Then I uninstalled all video card drivers and reinstalled fresh with Catalyst 6.5. I have also recently tried the DriveCleaner method, which eliminates all traces of old drivers, and still no luck.

7. chances are you screwed something royally in XP, format is the only surefire way to eliminate software driver problems
Formatting is not an option at this point, unfortunately. I really don't think it's a driver problem.

8. if that lot dont work, give up. take the damn card back and get another one :D
Yes, this is my last option, but I am not resorting to this just yet.


Thanks for the suggestions, Ketxxx.

[zekrahminator]

The power supply figures are on the side of the power supply, should be written clearly. I assume you don't know how to get into BIOS, when the machine first turns on (before the windows XP logo) it should tell you a button to press to enter setup. Press that button and you're in BIOS. Replacing the cooler may void your warranty, but it will almost surely solve a thermal problem. I told you already that you should only set the fan speed as high as you're comfortable with, the ATI stock cooler stinks. Sorry for the shorthand, I'm just really lazy :p.

[hrdwair]

The power supply figures are on the side of the power supply, should be written clearly. I assume you don't know how to get into BIOS, when the machine first turns on (before the windows XP logo) it should tell you a button to press to enter setup. Press that button and you're in BIOS. Replacing the cooler may void your warranty, but it will almost surely solve a thermal problem. I told you already that you should only set the fan speed as high as you're comfortable with, the ATI stock cooler stinks. Sorry for the shorthand, I'm just really lazy :p.

Sorry, I've just opened up the case so many times, it's getting to be a bit of a hassle. Is there a program that displays the power figures? Also, I know how to get into the BIOS, just not where to locate the necessary settings where one disables the onboard video. I was reading around about this and it appears some mobos don't even need to have onboard video disabled when installing a new card. My mobo manual doesn't seem to make mention of this either.

[zekrahminator]

There is no program, unless you know the exact model of the power supply, in which case you should look up your power supply and see what figures you get.

[Ketxxx]

you wont void the warranty by taking the hsf off your card and reseating it. this is more of a technicality. the manufacturers wont be able to tell if the cooler has been taken off or not, nor would they really care.

i would deffinately look into your PSU, if you have a strong +12v rail of 30A or more, i would deffinately suspect a buggy mainboard bios or a setting you need to adjust. if those paths lead to nothing i would vote dodgy card.

[trog100]

if the card is the type that dosnt have a seperate power connector it wont draw masses of power..

one simple question.. does it behave like this at default out of the box speeds.. or is it the result of overclocking.. ????

trog

[hrdwair]

if the card is the type that dosnt have a seperate power connector it wont draw masses of power..

one simple question.. does it behave like this at default out of the box speeds.. or is it the result of overclocking.. ????

trog


The card has no place for a power connector. The box even makes no mention of such a need for this.

I had/have no intension of trying to overclock the card. The card is performing with out-of-the-box speeds.

[zekrahminator]

Well, if you're not going to install an aftermarket cooler, you might as well ship it back to newegg and hope they send you a new one. Come to think of it, RMA is cheaper ($7 shipping vs. $30 Zalman VF700Cu). If they send you the same one though, you're going to have to get some better cooling for your card. We'll walk you through it :).

[Dillinger]

every ATI card I have ever got I learnd the hard way never to use the CD that it came with for the drivers. it caused me more problems then ever. Sometime it took me hours of work installing drivers for any of my ATI cards. the all in wonder is the worst. the card its self is a great card its just there divers that IMO suck.

[hrdwair]

Just an update -

No solution has been found yet. I've tried almost all the suggestions posted, and learned that my power supply is a 500. I've also tried the Omega drivers instead, still with no luck.

Currently, I'm sending the card back to the shop for testing in hopes of finally finding a solution.

Thanks to all who posted suggestions. I'll update this thread again with the solution to my problem once/if it is found.

[hrdwair]

FINAL UPDATE!

So I finally managed to track down what was causing my video card problem. Turns out, the games/apps I was running had to be played/viewed in FULL SCREEN. The games I was testing and the Trixx application were being played in a 800x600 window (my resolution is 1024x768). I guess the card didn't like things running in a window. Now when I play games in full screen, the fan noise isn't as loud and I've managed to play through Hitman a few times without any glitches.

Hopefully this will come in handy for those that run into a similar problem. I originally didn't bother writing out that I was playing some games in window mode because I really didn't think it mattered. With the onboard video card, I did this all the time and nothing went wrong. Oh well, I guess that's just how it is.

Thanks again to all those who helped out!

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Problem: Game/App freezes and video card fan speeds up/makes a lot of noise (only happens with certain programs)
Solution: Try executing these programs in full screen rather than window mode.

[zekrahminator]

Well I'm glad you fixed it. I'm surprised you had that problem at all, but...oh well. I suppose that there are some things about computers even the smartest TPU gurus will never understand.