Windows Defender is out

[Alec§taar]

See my subject-line/title above, & this URL:

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx

:)

* Seems decent enough, trying it now myself...

APK

P.S.=> To get it, you'll have to have a VALID copy of your OS first of all (or run the latest GeniuneCheck.exe standalone file for a code for download of it), & secondly (& this messed me up a bit)?

You'll NEED to have "Automatic Updates" live & running in services.msc, & ALSO in Control Panel-> System Icon...

Otherwise, lol, it WON'T download updates! And, you will need to update it... it is set w/ definitions only as recent as 01/25/2006 is why... apk

[Canuto]

Is it good?

[Alec§taar]

Is it good?

So far? Oh, I suppose so... it's not "fighting" w/ Norton-Symantec Corporate AntiVirus, OR w/ Ad-Aware's tray icon program, so this is GOOD NEWS so far @ least!

It's very simple to use also...

:)

* That's about ALL I can say about it @ this point though... lol, hope I never have to find out if it is REALLY "good" or not though, via spyware/malware/trojan etc. infestations though!

APK

P.S.=> The ONLY problem I had was updating it, so I had to look around @ some troubleshooting info. on it & since I do my "Windows Updates" manually from this website @ MS:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/Results.aspx?DisplayLang=en&nr=50&startDate=3%2f6%2f2006&period=30&sortCriteria=date

?

I do that manually, so I have copies of the files locally, just in case.

Anyhow - I often leave the "Automatic Updates" service & Control Panel settings to "OFF/INACTIVE" because I haul updates down manually for LOCAL storage...

I found out, as I noted above?? You can't do that w/ this program... saving you guys time & trouble IF you try it! apk

[Polaris573]

I was working on a computer infested with adware, spyware, and whateverthehellware a while ago. The beta version of Windows Defender found a few things that AVG, Adaware, and Spybot missed.

[Alec§taar]

Ah, sounds GOOD so far, from someone w/ direct "hands-on" experience using it, in an older/earlier model no less:

I was working on a computer infested with adware, spyware, and whateverthehellware a while ago. The beta version of Windows Defender found a few things that AVG, Adaware, and Spybot missed.

Cool, & You do as I do: I keep multiple rootkit, malware/spyware/trojan, & yes AntiVirus (but only keep Norton Resident) detector programs around here online...

("2nd doctor's opinions" & such!)

:)

* Layered security, never hurts...

APK

[bruins004]

Ah, sounds GOOD so far, from someone w/ direct "hands-on" experience using it, in an older/earlier model no less:



Cool, & You do as I do: I keep multiple rootkit, malware/spyware/trojan, & yes AntiVirus (but only keep Norton Resident) detector programs around here online...

("2nd doctor's opinions" & such!)

:)

* Layered security, never hurts...

APK

Hmmm I would agree with that statement somewhat. Sometimes layered security does hurt lol. My example is just as of late with my new rig (rig #2 in sig.). The new Abit board came with a built in firewall and even on the LOW setting it blocked everything. I couldnt even download 3DMark03. So I had to turn it off and open a few UDP Ports for a few games before I could get things to work correctly. As I say sometimes, be careful wut u wish for.

[Alec§taar]

Hmmm I would agree with that statement somewhat. Sometimes layered security does hurt lol. My example is just as of late with my new rig (rig #2 in sig.). The new Abit board came with a built in firewall and even on the LOW setting it blocked everything. I couldnt even download 3DMark03. So I had to turn it off and open a few UDP Ports for a few games before I could get things to work correctly. As I say sometimes, be careful wut u wish for.

It also "hurts" in that you are passing your packets thru more "filters" (especially if you do what I do, which is use a LinkSys/Cisco technology "NAT Firewalling" router, + ports filtrations, & lastly a software firewall)... slowing you up some in effect (@ least, this is how I understand it).

BUT, it helps, because if one gets "knocked down" & you CAN knock-down a hardware router, & UpNp service (TURN IT OFF!!!) can make that happen, believe it or not, along w/ some settings routers have (remote mgt. ones)?

Other things "get in the way" of potential 'interlopers/invaders'... knock one down? Another is in the way!

APK

P.S.=> Yes, there is exceptions w/ various apps... games can be another! Ports needed & such... apk

[AshenSugar]

somebody acctualy still uses norton.........scarry..........

i laugh at all you who use firewall+firewall+xxx+xxx+xxx, since i got cable i stoped running a firewall, keep my nod32 updated and guess what, i havent had a singel virus since, anybody whos so board as to want to try and hax into my computer to see what i have really needs to get a life, is primarly a gaming rig, anything important i keep backed up on dvd and/or external hdd's that i dont keep pluged in(they get to warm, and my room already is to warm due to computers, can heat the whole house with them from my room.....rofl)

oh and spyware/addware, just dont dowload/install crap that comes with it and dont use IE as your main browser and BAM no more problem(i havent had spyware/addware in over 2 years :) )

[Alec§taar]

somebody acctualy still uses norton.........scarry..........

"?"

Norton, year-in & year-out, is always usually ON TOP of the charts for most virus threats found... using anything ELSE is scary imo @ least, given those statistics in AntiVirus comparison tests typically!

:)

* It does the job, but I also don't use what MOST folks use (version) I use the Corporate Client & it does the job... it's a LOT "lighter" than current Norton/Symantec stuff, less 'bloat' (interface is much like norton was around the year 2000/2001).

APK

[AshenSugar]

"?"

Norton, year-in & year-out, is always usually ON TOP of the charts for most virus threats found... using anything ELSE is scary imo @ least, given those statistics in AntiVirus comparison tests typically!

:)

* It does the job, but I also don't use what MOST folks use (version) I use the Corporate Client & it does the job... it's a LOT "lighter" than current Norton/Symantec stuff, less 'bloat' (interface is much like norton was around the year 2000/2001).

APK

most found........most missed till after they dissable norton that is.

and i reccomend you take a look at vb100% ratings, they do a far more complete test of virus scanners then ur common reviewers.

nod32 has the most 100% raitings ever, its not typicaly known to laypeople its more a corp level product, not heavy on resorces(unlike norton) dosnt have alot of faulse positives, dosnt mess with netconnection, dosnt slow the system down, allaround better then norton, oh yeah and no viruses dissable it unlike norton(after norton corp/symantic got knocked out on me the 3rd time dispite being fully updated i went back to f-prot, then found nod32, both are better then norton.)

for server/enterprise solutions Trend is higher rated then norton or mcafee, nod32 isnt as well known as i said but its quite good.

for low resorce av with great protection and great licencing policy f-prot cant be beat, 29bucks us for 5 home systems/comps, that includes ANY version of windows, if you havent tryed it, and have only stuck to the "top names" well then your missing out on a far better product, maby not as pretty but a better product none the less.

http://www.eset.com/
^^nod32^^

Compared Proactive Detection

Which security product stops the most zero-day threats?

When new viruses, worms and other malicious attacks strike, traditional signature-based technology is insufficient. Every minute you wait for an update is another minute that your comptuer and network are vulnerable to damage, infection, or identity theft. ThreatSense Heuristics closes the window of vulnerability by safely identifying and stopping malware as it runs on your computer.

NOD32 has consistently been rated as the best protection against zero-day outbreaks and attacks by the world's leading antivirus testing organizations.
www.av-comparatives.org is an Austrian research lab that performs retrospective tests.
www.virustotal.com produces a newsletter listing vendors that detect outbreaks as they occur.



AV-Comparatives
The independent testing institution AV-Comparatives.org is an antivirus research project coordinated by Andreas Clementi with the support of the Innsbrucker Kompetenzzentrum / Computernotdienst. The AV-Comparatives.org “Retrospective/Proactive Test” compared 11 different antivirus products’ abilities to proactively identify the increasing complexity and zero-day nature of today’s threats. The stringent testing used recent In-the-Wild samples and a variety of other malware, Trojans, viruses and worms affecting Windows and other operating systems. To effectively test the products for proactive detection, the organization used new malware samples, and tested them against the products without updating the antivirus signature.
http://www.eset.com/images/ProactiveThreatDetection2.jpg
The November study revealed that of the eight new viruses that have been released In-the-Wild in the preceding three months, customers of Symantec, Trend Micro and Kaspersky had proactive detection for none of these threats, leaving them at risk until the vendors could provide a signature update. McAfee customers were only protected from a single virus without updating. ESET’s NOD32 customers were protected four times more often against new viruses, and 95% more often across all new samples used in the test, including In-the-Wild threats, backdoors, Trojans and other malware. This is the second study conducted by AVComparatives.org on this topic in 2005. Over the course of both studies, NOD 32 proactively detected 50 out of 59 In-the-Wild samples used, or 85%. More details can be found at http://www.av-comparatives.org/ The graph shows the accuracy of heuristic-based detection and the performance of several antivirus vendors' products. The data is derived by determining whether or not a given antivirus product detects a new virus without requiring a signature update. If it does, then heuristic detection has succeeded (note: in some cases, well-written signatures can detect future variants).


VirusTotal.com
This independent consulting firm based in Spain performs real-time analysis of malware outbreak detection across a wide range of antivirus vendors. And as you can see from the graph below, NOD32 has by far the highest detection rate, and the fastest performance (tested separately by Virusbulletin). In fact, NOD32 is on average, 2-10 times faster than the competition.
http://www.eset.com/images/DetectandPerf.jpg
See the table below for complete accounting of how antivirus vendors products detected major worm outbreaks
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9716/untitledpy4.jpg
Source: www.VirusTotal.com, aggregated statistics through August 29, 2005. Performance data based on VirusBulletin testing of the Windows 2003 Advanced Server (Virusbulletin, October 2005).

X Detected by Heuristics (Global Threat)
X1 Stopped by Behaviour Blocker (cannot be used on email servers)
NA Product didn't participate on the report
(*) Panda TruPrevent is included on the reports since December 2004


looks like norton looses compared to nod32 to me.....
nortons heuristics are horrid, if its not in the known list, forget it........

nod32 also updates virus sigs hourly if needed and the update files are normaly very small 80-160k range :)


award links
http://www.eset.com/company/awards.php

and for my other favorite av app
http://www.f-prot.com/
f-prot has been around since the dos days, the dos version is and alwase has been free, uses same sig files as the windows version(great for recovery of hard to find/remove viruses using recovery consol)
the new f-prot 6 beta is free for like 90days per insall(you can reinstall if you need more time :) )

[tigger]

i use blackice for my firewall,avg for antivirus and advanced windows care for spyware etc.

any comments on how good/bad these are would be appriciated.

[Alec§taar]

most found........

Most found = MOST EFFECTIVE... don't you think, as far as AntiVirus programs go?

most missed till after they dissable norton that is.

OH, I see... so, virus' ONLY disable Norton AntiVirus?

:)

* Norton (@ least in the version I use) has something called "Anti-Tamper" in its settings... you turn that on?

Well, try to 'disable norton', then.

and i reccomend you take a look at vb100% ratings, they do a far more complete test of virus scanners then ur common reviewers.

Those "common reviewers" are probably JUST as qualified as any, & year in/year out? Norton seems to come out on top!

nod32 has the most 100% raitings ever, its not typicaly known to laypeople its more a corp level product, not heavy on resorces(unlike norton)

I use the corporate edition, you seem to have overlooked that though I stated it earlier - it's VERY 'light'!

In fact? It is like Norton USED to be around 2000-2001 in fact for Windows 2000...

oh yeah and no viruses dissable it unlike norton(after norton corp/symantic got knocked out on me the 3rd time dispite being fully updated i went back to f-prot, then found nod32, both are better then norton.)

Heh, first off: NEVER say never... & try the version I use, Corporate Edition Norton/Symantec Client, with "AntiTamper" engines @ work... Heck, I can't KILL IT MYSELF & HAVE TRIED!

for server/enterprise solutions Trend is higher rated then norton or mcafee, nod32 isnt as well known as i said but its quite good.

Trend? Boy, I have a story about that one, from my work THIS YEAR NO LESS (& I told this story here before in fact, here is the 'short version'):

Trend was installed & was not even UPDATING its virus sigs properly across our LAN/WAN on the job... & I had to PROVE to my CIO that he was WRONG choosing it, & that it failed on us.

He told us the SAME thing in meetings (TREND #1 etc.) & I was like "can you show me documented proof of this" & he could not... however, I could about Norton vs. many others (even AVG & AntiVir).

He promptly switched us over to AVG @ work in fact, because of my discovery of this failure in Trend!

looks like norton looses compared to nod32 to me..... nortons heuristics are horrid, if its not in the known list, forget it........

Well, that's not how 'heuristic methods' work (via 'known offender' mugshots/signature, but rather by "it smells like chicken, tastes like chicken, looks like a chicken: MUST BE A CHICKEN" type of 'best guess' engines), but you are using 1 test only!

I am using several years of Norton consistently beating others out. Heck, nearly a decade really.

APK

P.S.=> NOD32 is probably very good, I have not used it is all... I only stayed w/ Norton because of YEARS of great reviews & it coming out ontop of even AVG & AntiVir (excellent products I have used before)... consistently so, & I use its MOST 'efficient/lightweight' model there is afaik: Symantec Corporate AntiVirus Client...

Want to hear a theory? Well, you will anyhow, like it or not, lol!

I think that AntiVirus companies' own coders put out virus & OS vulnerability attacks...

Think about it: They disassemble virus all day long, learn more about them & ALL KINDS OF THEM, & what is stopping them from applying that to keeping themselves working via creation of more?

They work for companies that are in essence, doing what insurance companies do & use:

It's called "selling you fear"...

Heck, so why stop @ disassembling virii to understand them: Hack into the OS the same way, & really LEARN where it's 'weak', & THEN write a virus/malware/trojan/spyware etc. you name it yourself, keeping yourself @ work & paid, & one that REALLY 'wreaks havoc'... lol! It's NOT outside the realm of possibility... crazy, but might be happening!

That said? Were I such a guy?? I'd make my AntiVirus #1 in ANY test... lol!

It'd find more than ANY others out there, simply because I am writing the files it's trying to find, & inserting sigs NO OTHERS COULD HAVE BY THAT TIME W/ THAT VIRUS, during any tests! apk

[Alec§taar]

I found 1 thing SO FAR that I do NOT like about "Windows Defender":

When it's done updating is 'spyware signatures' (calling them that for lack of a better term)?

Well, if you DON'T reboot right off? It will nag you till "doomsday" for the next whatever, every 3 minutes it seems!

* Other than that though, so far @ least? Smooth enough sailing, and it's FREE!

APK

[AshenSugar]

Most found = MOST EFFECTIVE... don't you think, as far as AntiVirus programs go?



OH, I see... so, virus' ONLY disable Norton AntiVirus?

:)

* Norton (@ least in the version I use) has something called "Anti-Tamper" in its settings... you turn that on?

Well, try to 'disable norton', then.



Those "common reviewers" are probably JUST as qualified as any, & year in/year out? Norton seems to come out on top!



I use the corporate edition, you seem to have overlooked that though I stated it earlier - it's VERY 'light'!

In fact? It is like Norton USED to be around 2000-2001 in fact for Windows 2000...



Heh, first off: NEVER say never... & try the version I use, Corporate Edition Norton/Symantec Client, with "AntiTamper" engines @ work... Heck, I can't KILL IT MYSELF & HAVE TRIED!



Trend? Boy, I have a story about that one, from my work THIS YEAR NO LESS (& I told this story here before in fact, here is the 'short version'):

Trend was installed & was not even UPDATING its virus sigs properly across our LAN/WAN on the job... & I had to PROVE to my CIO that he was WRONG choosing it, & that it failed on us.

He told us the SAME thing in meetings (TREND #1 etc.) & I was like "can you show me documented proof of this" & he could not... however, I could about Norton vs. many others (even AVG & AntiVir).

He promptly switched us over to AVG @ work in fact, because of my discovery of this failure in Trend!



Well, that's not how 'heuristic methods' work (via 'known offender' mugshots/signature, but rather by "it smells like chicken, tastes like chicken, looks like a chicken: MUST BE A CHICKEN" type of 'best guess' engines), but you are using 1 test only!

I am using several years of Norton consistently beating others out. Heck, nearly a decade really.

APK

P.S.=> NOD32 is probably very good, I have not used it is all... I only stayed w/ Norton because of YEARS of great reviews & it coming out ontop of even AVG & AntiVir (excellent products I have used before)... consistently so, & I use its MOST 'efficient/lightweight' model there is afaik: Symantec Corporate AntiVirus Client...

Want to hear a theory? Well, you will anyhow, like it or not, lol!

I think that AntiVirus companies' own coders put out virus & OS vulnerability attacks...

Think about it: They disassemble virus all day long, learn more about them & ALL KINDS OF THEM, & what is stopping them from applying that to keeping themselves working via creation of more?

They work for companies that are in essence, doing what insurance companies do & use:

It's called "selling you fear"...

Heck, so why stop @ disassembling virii to understand them: Hack into the OS the same way, & really LEARN where it's 'weak', & THEN write a virus/malware/trojan/spyware etc. you name it yourself, keeping yourself @ work & paid, & one that REALLY 'wreaks havoc'... lol! It's NOT outside the realm of possibility... crazy, but might be happening!

That said? Were I such a guy?? I'd make my AntiVirus #1 in ANY test... lol!

It'd find more than ANY others out there, simply because I am writing the files it's trying to find, & inserting sigs NO OTHERS COULD HAVE BY THAT TIME W/ THAT VIRUS, during any tests! apk
norton can be FULLY dissabled by sevral viruses, the service files can be replaced/modifyed b4 the service loads on ur next restart, i have seen this on the version for enterprise server 2003, took me using my system and 2 other av apps(nod and f-prot) to get all the crap that got in whal norton was down.

as to trend, alot of that in my exp has been due to the program not being setup correctly and/or the network not being setup correctly, im not blaming you or the admin/tech who set it up, really they should make it fool/ideot proof even for server use, trend when setup and working properly works great.

and norton server/symantic corpret is still heavyer then nod32 or f-prot/f-secure its not as bad as mcafee or kasper but its still heavyer on the system then nod32/f-prot.

setup a system or virtual machien for testing try nod32 and f-prot against norton sever, think u will be suprised.

and read the vb100% reviews, they cover 1998-current, fully disscribe testing methods, and all that, the accounts free just sign up and browse :)
http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/index
get a free account and compair them yourself :)

[Alec§taar]

norton can be FULLY dissabled by sevral viruses, the service files can be replaced/modifyed b4 the service loads on ur next restart, i have seen this on the version for enterprise server 2003, took me using my system and 2 other av apps(nod and f-prot) to get all the crap that got in whal norton was down.

Do you really think those methods are local to NAV in any form, only? Please, before you reply: Do think about this... targetted attacks? Can happen to any program.

Still, I have tried to "knock out" AntiTamper, while in Windows? Can't shut off NAV... they have it solid in there.

This IS the MOST current version of it mind you that I am using.

as to trend, alot of that in my exp has been due to the program not being setup correctly and/or the network not being setup correctly, im not blaming you or the admin/tech who set it up, really they should make it fool/ideot proof even for server use, trend when setup and working properly works great.

I didn't set it up, the network @ my place of employ & in the past several years (I am solely a software engineer now - the "FINAL EVOLUTION" imo, of the software person) though I had found SEVERAL shortcomings in the network @ work which have been either corrected, or noted (such as service hardening, the topic of the "Sticky Post" I authored in the software section).

Trend, assuming the network engineers 'screwed up' setting it up (meaning my CIO)? It sounds like it needs work on "ease-of-use" & this MATTERS large... I design this stuff, & one button push for ANYTHING should be the goal of any software developer... EASE OF USE!

As well as ease of setup, installation, update & tuning (in other words, YOU NAME IT)

and norton server/symantic corpret is still heavyer then nod32 or f-prot/f-secure its not as bad as mcafee or kasper but its still heavyer on the system then nod32/f-prot.

I'd like to compare statistics on memory usage, CPU cycles used, & such from taskmgr.exe (good source of such info. in fact) w/ perhaps, screenshots from myself running NAV corp client current model, & yourself running the ones you mention's services & clients of the antivir you mention, under NATIVE environs (no VMware etc.)...

Couldn't hurt!

I have NO idea what NOD32 is about, but I do know the others... currently? I am using the one that finds the MOST detected virii year in & year out... w/ good reason - & that reason? Well, see this paragraph! Over time? Norton's a proven winner in tests worldwide for decades now!

setup a system or virtual machien for testing try nod32 and f-prot against norton sever, think u will be suprised.

Well, that's under artificial environs... I don't generally use VMWare (the best of them) or MS Virtual PC either... no need. Not really, not as a single platform developer (Win32/.NET, it is where the monies are).

APK

[AshenSugar]

I design this stuff, & one button push for ANYTHING should be the goal of any software developer... EASE OF USE!
would you please tell liunx devs this, it would make my life easyer :P


as to testing, vmware is good for testing out virus ISO images(can be found on some security sites) load the image with vmware and see how many viri the av finds compared to how many there are.

fully loaded nods currently using 21,232k ram, and 00 cpu cycles, im gonna put f-prot on my other box soon, will post stats then, oh and nod can be made lighter or heavyer by enabling/dissableing modules such as outlook protection and active internet scanner i only keep the mem resdent scanner filesystem scaner going, no need for the others, nod tells me if something nasty trys to get on my system :)

[Alec§taar]

would you please tell liunx devs this, it would make my life easyer :P

LOL! It's NOT so bad... it's better (especially since KDE 2.3 imo) by far than say, when I ran it 14 years ago in Slackware, stuck in console mode because my vidcard wasn't regonized.

And, sometimes, admittedly? ONE-CLICK is not always possible. BUT, this is what you have setup options for... lol, set your user in PRESETS as much as you can.

Hard to explain but think about wares you use.

as to testing, vmware is good for testing out virus ISO images(can be found on some security sites) load the image with vmware and see how many viri the av finds compared to how many there are.

Ah, man... it's NOT real, it's emulated... there are HUGE differences!

fully loaded nods currently using 21,232k ram, and 00 cpu cycles, im gonna put f-prot on my other box soon, will post stats then, oh and nod can be made lighter or heavyer by enabling/dissableing modules such as outlook protection and active internet scanner i only keep the mem resdent scanner filesystem scaner going, no need for the others, nod tells me if something nasty trys to get on my system :)

So, lol, you have "Cheat methods" eh? lol... disabling certain functions, lol... good job! Anyhow... we should do screenshots, those are "live proof" so we can both SEE them, like I said above.

I won't cheat ("WORD" as young folks today say), I'll run NAV corp. client FULL OUT, just as I run it too... & we'll see what is what.

Anyhow? It is nearing midnite & that's when I 'cut out' & sleep... later, I will see you whenever Manan (sp?) as the latin folk say.

APK

[randomperson21]

tell me alec, does it actually tell you what spyware/malware it found? i'm running the last beta version, and the thing that really got on my nerves is that i could never figure out what it found. maybe i'm just missing something.

oh yeah, just downloaded ff2 from your link, and firefox SPELLCHECKS! i'm scared (and i just realized how bad my spelling is...)

[AshenSugar]

LOL! It's NOT so bad... it's better (especially since KDE 2.3 imo) by far than say, when I ran it 14 years ago in Slackware, stuck in console mode because my vidcard wasn't regonized.

And, sometimes, admittedly? ONE-CLICK is not always possible. BUT, this is what you have setup options for... lol, set your user in PRESETS as much as you can.

Hard to explain but think about wares you use.



Ah, man... it's NOT real, it's emulated... there are HUGE differences!



So, lol, you have "Cheat methods" eh? lol... disabling certain functions, lol... good job! Anyhow... we should do screenshots, those are "live proof" so we can both SEE them, like I said above.

I won't cheat ("WORD" as young folks today say), I'll run NAV corp. client FULL OUT, just as I run it too... & we'll see what is what.

Anyhow? It is nearing midnite & that's when I 'cut out' & sleep... later, I will see you whenever Manan (sp?) as the latin folk say.

APK
its not cheating, on install in advanced mode it asks what you want to run and dont want to run, after insall at any time you can choose to enable the extra modules, but why would i run outlook protection when i removed outlook?, why would i run active internet protection when i dont need it?

cheating would mean i had to do something sneeky or underhanded to dissable the modules i dont need/want, i didnt its PART OF THE PROGRAM

ok i got Amon running, thats the active file system monotori dont use the Dmon thats made for MS document monotoring, as i dont use ms office
I dont use Emon because as i said i dont use outlook(remove it fully from any system i setup)

theres ur screenshot, now can i have some respect? you imply im lieing and cheating when im not, i find it offencive to be called a cheat and have people imply im lieing. 21,224k ram in use by nod32 (the same or close to the same as i said b4)

[Alec§taar]

theres ur screenshot, now can i have some respect? you imply im lieing and cheating when im not, i find it offencive to be called a cheat and have people imply im lieing.

Ah, I should have quoted the word "cheating" to imply sarcasm (edit part: Wait a second, I read it above, & I did use quotes noting sarcasm)...

It was only 'kidding around', that's all - you just took it the wrong way!

:)

* Part of what I dislike about the written word - there is no REAL way to convey 'tone'...

APK

P.S.=> I'll do a screenshot of my NAV & it's services later... this NOD32 screenshot: Does it have services associated w/ it as well, OR other components other than what I see clearly labelled as its filename in memory from your taskmgr.exe screenshot? apk

[bruins004]

It always good to see Alec stir someone up lol.
Anyways this looks like it deserves a try.
Why not after it is does have everyones favorite word. FREE

[AshenSugar]

ah forgot the nod32kui.exe uses 1,988k, AFIK these are run as services since you cant kill them from within windows(keeps them from being stoped/replaced with fakes like symantic may have finnly done with its av)

yes the writen word is hard thats why if i have worrie about any dought of scarcasim being used i use /scarcasim after what i say (as if it was a tag)
same when i realise i have gone off on a rant /rant :P

[Alec§taar]

It always good to see Alec stir someone up lol.

That's not my intention here... not @ all.

Anyways this looks like it deserves a try.

It's pretty good I suppose... can't hurt to have yet another "Dr.'s 2nd opinion" ontop of numerous other antivirus/antirootkit/antispyware programs here.

Why not after it is does have everyones favorite word. FREE

Yes, it's a "PLUS POINT" for it...

:)

APK

[AshenSugar]

That's not my intention here... not @ all.



It's pretty good I suppose... can't hurt to have yet another "Dr.'s 2nd opinion" ontop of numerous other antivirus/antirootkit/antispyware programs here.



Yes, it's a "PLUS POINT" for it...

:)

APK
'first where those screen shots you have had days :)

im imune to those, god i love my windows 2003 :D

[Chewy]

humm well with this thing installed it randomly revs up my cpu to 50%, my cpu fan started reving up so I checked task thing and found msmpeng.exe at 50% cpu usage, terminated it and defentender says it was terminated. Anyone notice this? I hate my cpu fan :D

[Alec§taar]

humm well with this thing installed it randomly revs up my cpu to 50%, my cpu fan started reving up so I checked task thing and found msmpeng.exe at 50% cpu usage, terminated it and defentender says it was terminated. Anyone notice this? I hate my cpu fan :D

I noted some "drag" during its update (I note what I saw that 'tuned me into what you see' above)... then, once that was done? It "mellowed-out"...

APK

[Polaris573]

I hate how it will suddenly start scanning when I'm in the middle of a game. Performance drops considerably and I wonder what the hell is going on. It doesn't notify you that it's scanning via a tray icon so you have to actually open the program and terminate the scan.

[Alec§taar]

I hate how it will suddenly start scanning when I'm in the middle of a game. Performance drops considerably and I wonder what the hell is going on. It doesn't notify you that it's scanning via a tray icon so you have to actually open the program and terminate the scan.

Hmmm, how would I fix that, by request by a user? Animated TrayIcon when active maybe @ least, & this isn't TOO hard to implement (especially w/ 3rd party toolkits that can be licensed)...

NOW, as far as how much/how hard it "hits" the system??

Check for disk activity being beyond a certain % w/ a filtering driver maybe @ filesystem, or possibly even DISK driver level...

Both are doable.

CPU activity going beyond a certain % might be another, but problem here is that some systems (like mine using a controller w/ it's own "I/O brain" on it, which it uses instead of the mobo system CPU) wouldn't do well on that account.

Filtering drivers are probably "the way", checking for Int21 (iirc, disk I/O from Assembly instructions, file control block method intercepts), or possibly Int13 BIOS services usage/monitoring, might work out for ALL things!

I.E.-> So, what's that all mean? Well, if you are encountering TOO much I/O from any other running progs hitting disk especially (CPU too possibly)?? Mellow out, delay scan... background process it later.

It's THAT, or use threads or timeslicing (multitasking I/O calls like VB DoEvents/Delphi Application.ProcessMessages)... but, imo @ least? Drivers filtering would do it better!

:)

* Just theory though on my end... & I may have the interrupts to monitor wrong period, for Win32. BUT, the ideas are there.

APK

P.S.=> Good, this is good feedback & points MS needs to address... I agree! apk

[Alec§taar]

'first where those screen shots you have had days :)

My days are usually PRETTY busy, but I'll have them to you shortly (tomorrow @ some point, promise):

I also had lag putting out some prebuilt .reg files that have URL references & definitions for Jimmy2004 in the System Optimization sticky thread, because they are on a disk I use for storage largely of data (74gb 10k RAPTOR 8mb buffer)...

Just formatting & getting my SamSung SpinPoint 250gb disk into place on my external USB 2.0/SATA 2.0 enclosure was a "BITCH", & then transferring data to it (130gb++ worth) was time-consuming today also!

(Heck, the Samsung Spinpoint was a good price buy for 250gb ($65 US Dollars) but, troublesome! E.G.-> In the end, I had to use mobo SATA 2.0 Silicon Image 3114 controller instead... Samsung would NOT "cut it" as either SATA1 or SATA2 on it on the external enclosure (whereas my WD Raptor 74gb I had in there prior that was full? NO PROBLEMS @ ALL))

Then, just to format it? Heh, & that was a nightmare too!

However, I dug out of it (see software section & computer management/diskmgmt.msc thread I did)

Hey, in your data?

Also, if you can??

Obtain memory consumption for its services also & trayicon stuff, etc. (so you & I have a COMPLETE output)... taskmgr.exe CAN point this out, in some cases, but SysInternals Process Explorer MAY be a better candidate for us here to 'break those out'...

:)

* Ought to be a GOOD comparison... but now, gotta run man! See ya then...

APK

P.S.=> I'd have them to you, NOW, but a lot of folks know what I'm up to & about this evening (Halloween, going as "Agent Smith"... lol, I love it!)... anyhow, look forward to this comparison of ours... I already Norton FINDS/DETECTS the most typically, let's see how it fares in the model I use memory consumption-wise vs. NOD32, your fav! apk

[AshenSugar]

http://www.virus.gr/english/fullxml/default.asp?id=82&mnu=82

The test was made on 15-25 August 2006, using Windows XP Professional SP1 on a P4 2800 Mhz, 512MB DDRAM.
All programs tested had the latest versions, upgrades and updates and they were tested using their full scanning capabilities e.g. heuristics, full scan etc. The default settings of each program were not used, in order for each program to achieve its maximum detection rate. Because of this, there is a possibility for the tested programs to detect a few false positives.
The 147184 virus samples were chosen using VS2000 according to Kaspersky, F-Prot, Nod32, Dr.Web, BitDefender and McAfee antivirus programs. Each virus sample was unique by virus name, meaning that AT LEAST 1 antivirus program detected it as a new virus.
ALL virus samples were unpacked and the only samples that were kept were the ones that were packed using external-dos-packers (that means not winzip, winrar, winace etc).
The virus samples had the correct file extension using a special program (Renexts) and were unique, according to checksum32 filesize.
Most of the virus samples used were not previously replicated at the time the test was made, which means that some of them, although probably only a few, may be false positives. The procedure of testing each and every virus sample is still under process.
The programs MKS_VIR , PER and IPArmor were not tested because there was no english demo version available.
The programs WinAntivirus , Anti-Hacker Expert , Command , Extendia AVK , GDATA AVK , BOClean , VET and Freedom were not tested because there was no demo version available.
Thourough mode was not used in VBA32 due to extremely slow scan process.
Advanced heuristics were not used in Tauscan due to extremely slow scan process.
VirusBuster uses the exact same engine as Vexira.
TheShield uses the exact same engine as VirobotExpert.
Avira uses the exact same engine as AntiVir.
Fire uses the exact same engine as Solo.
MKS_VIR uses the exact same engine as ArcaVir.
BullGuard uses the exact same engine as BitDefender free edition.
The program InVircible did not include a "typical" scanner-function and could not be tested.
The program V-Catch checks only mail accounts and could not be tested.
The program PC Tools kept crashing while testing the samples.
DOS-Based scanners were not tested.

The following file types were used.

SH, ELF, COM, EXE, PL, BAT, PRC, DOC, XLS, BIN, MDB, IMG, PPT, VBS, MSG, VBA, OLE, HTM, INI, SMM, TD0, REG, CLASS,

HTA, JS, VI_, URL, PHP, WMF, HLP, XML, SCR, PIF, SHS, WBT, CSC, MAC, DAT, CLS, STI, INF, HQX, XMI, SIT.


The virus samples were divided into these categories, according to the type of the virus :
File = BeOS, FreeBSD, Linux, Mac, Palm, OS2, Unix, BinaryImage, BAS viruses, MenuetOS.
MS-DOS = MS-DOS viruses.
Windows = Win.*.* viruses.
Macro = Macro, Multi and Formula viruses.
Malware = Adware, DoS, Constructors, Exploit, Flooders, Nukers, Sniffers, SpamTools, Spoofers, Virus Construction Tools, Droppers, PolyEngines.
Script = ABAP, BAT, Corel, HTML, Java, Scripts, MSH, VBS, WBS, Worms, PHP, Perl, Ruby viruses.
Trojans-Backdoors = Trojan and Backdoor viruses.

Rank

1. Kaspersky version 6.0.0.303 - 99.62%

2. Active Virus Shield by AOL version 6.0.0.299 - 99.62%

3. F-Secure 2006 version 6.12.90 - 96.86%

4. BitDefender Professional version 9 - 96.63%

5. CyberScrub version 1.0 - 95.98%

6. eScan version 8.0.671.1 - 95.82%

7. BitDefender freeware version 8.0.202 - 95.57%

8. BullGuard version 6.1 - 95.57%

9. AntiVir Premium version 7.01.01.02 - 95.45%

10. Nod32 version 2.51.30 - 95.14%

11. AntiVir Classic version 7.01.01.02 - 94.26%

12. ViruScape 2006 version 1.02.0935.0137 - 93.87%

13. McAfee version 10.0.27 - 93.03%

14. McAfee Enterprise version 8.0.0 - 91.76%

15. F-Prot version 6.0.4.3 beta - 87.88%

16. Avast Professional version 4.7.871 - 87.46%

17. Avast freeware version 4.7.871 - 87.46%

18. Dr. Web version 4.33.2 - 86.03%

19. Norman version 5.90.23 - 85.65%

20. F-Prot version 3.16f - 85.14%

21. ArcaVir 2006 - 83.44%

22. Norton Professional 2006 - 83.18%

23. AVG Professional version 7.1.405 - 82.82%

24. AVG freeware version 7.1.405 - 82.82%

25. Panda 2007 version 2.00.01 - 82.23%

26. Virus Chaser version 5.0a - 81.47%

27. PC-Cillin 2006 version 14.10.1051 - 80.90%

28. VBA32 version 3.11.0 - 79.12%

29. ViRobot Expert version 4.0 - 76.22%

30. UNA version 1.83 - 75.44%

31. Rising AV version 18.41.30 - 73.60%

32. Sophos Sweep version 6.0.2 - 69.48%

33. Ikarus version 5.19 - 63.22%

34. Antiy Ghostbusters version 5.1.3 - 61.55%

35. Digital Patrol version 5.00.12 - 54.29%

36. Vexira 2006 version 5.002.45 - 52.66%

37. V3Pro 2004 version 6.1.1.2.640 - 52.38%

38. Ewido Premium version 4.0.0.172 - 51.27%

39. Ewido freeware version 4.0.0.172 - 51.27%

40. ClamWin version 0.88.4 - 51.23%

41. E-Trust version 7.2.0.0 - 50.36%

42. ZoneAlarm with VET Antivirus version 6.5.722.000 - 44.65%

43. A Squared Anti-Malware version 2.0 - 43.28%

44. A Squared Free version 2.0 - 43.28%

45. Zondex Guard version 5.4.2 - 41.73%

46. Comodo version 1.0.0.4 - 41.02%

47. Solo 4.0 version 3.1.0 - 40.83%

48. Protector Plus version 7.2.H03 - 37.04%

49. Quick Heal version 8.00 - 33.66%

50. PC Door Guard version 4.2.0.35- 24.13%

51. AntiTrojan Shield version 2.1.0.14 - 24.11%

52. VirIT version 6.1.9 - 21.39%

53. Trojan Hunter version 4.2.924 - 13.44%

54. Trojan Remover version 6.5.1 - 8.00%

55. Tauscan version 1.70.1414 - 7.70%

56. The Cleaner version 4.2.4319 - 6.03%

57. Hacker Eliminator version 1.2 - 1.70%

58. Abacre version 1.4 - 0.00%

^^

[Alec§taar]

http://www.virus.gr/english/fullxml/default.asp?id=82&mnu=82



^^

Well, then I will have to "counter" your tests, from my bookmarks... tit for tat.

(No problem either... I also have quite a few tests where Norton was found to kick butt on all else...)

However, it HAS to wait until tomorrow... lol! Why?

:)

* Because "It's going to be a pleasure watching you DIE... Mr. Anderson!"

APK

P.S.=> Consider it a challenge! Anyhow, "getting into character" w/ that last statement, because I am on my way out to a costume ball for Halloween as "Agent Smith"... but, we'll catch up w/ ya manan... apk

[AshenSugar]

u should have gone as the orical :P

[Alec§taar]

u should have gone as the orical :P

You're right, because here comes the results, as I stated it, as far as whoever it was that said Trend is the superior AntiVirus solution over time...

Chew on this, as far as throwing reviews of AntiVirus Products superiority in tests, 2004-2006:

(Norton beats Trend #1 - 02/2004)

&

(Norton beats Trend #2 - 05/2004)

&

(Norton beats Trend #3 - 08/2004)

&

(Norton beats Trend #4 - 11/2004)

&

(Norton beats Trend #5 - 02/2005)

&

(Norton beats Trend #6 - 08/2005)

ALL HERE, SEE THE ONLINE RESULTS CHARTS, or D/L the PDF's if you like:

http://www.av-comparatives.org/

* After those, @ that website, TREND must have elected not to participate in those tests anymore, or something... the rest of their charts no longer have Trend.

That's 6 TIMES that Norton was shown stronger than Trend!

There was also a thread here about TREND Micro's PC-Cillin product, read about it here, & some problems with it:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=17592

The very first poster extolls them.

:)

* Need others? I have more, & more than just from that site... "tit-4-tat!"...

NOD32 loses to Norton Antivirus 09/10/2005:

http://overclockers.com/articles1260/

APK

P.S.=> There is an entire history of Trend AntiVirus products being weaker than NAV stuff... NOD32 losing in the last test as well!

BUT, to tell you the truth?

Nowadays, if you read this thread, end-to-end??

It'd be actually fairly simple to "rig" test results in your favor though, IF you think like 'business people' think @ least (read earlier in this thread as to my theories on that account)... apk