I HAVE MADE AN ODD DISCOVERY ABOUT SOME 9550 cores that could possibly help!

[car852]

I was checking out a review the other day for a card I had just bought. The Powercolor 9550 256MB. I've flashed it into a Powercolor 9600Pro @ 410core/440memory. While looking at the review of the 9550, I decided to check out the really huge close up of the 9550 core. I pulled out my old 9600NP 256MB and looked at the core very closely comparing the two. Besides the fact that one said R350 and one said 9550, there was a resistor that is in a different place. Could this possibly help anything in performance? Maybe a hardmod to unlock something, probably not pipelines of course, but possibly memory bandwidth leading to higher memory clocks? (Although the MIRA memory on the Powercolor 9550 is rated at 250, it seems that it'll only go up to 220. This might have something to do with how much bandwidth the core can take in.)

Could doing a hardmod to the 9550 core possibly unlock some bandwidth leading to higher memory clocks? If this is possible, why has no one discovered this except me?

Here is an image showing the 9550 core on a Powercolor 9550. I have outlined in red where the resistor is located and where it should be on a 9600.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114&stc=1

[car852]

NOTE: I have not tried this because I only have this Radeon 9550 and I have no extra graphics card to use. I'm poor.

BTW, this is only one of my theories. Just something I thought about when I noticed the difference between the cores. Very interesting I'd say. Maybe someone will try to hardmod then OC to see if max OC for the memory or core changed at all.

[W1zzard]

yep thats exactly how the mod is done .. i took pictures of my 9550 core yesterday .. a writeup will follow in the next days ;)

all you get is
a) overclocking lock disabled in catalyst
b) device id changes to 9600

[Dedodido]

why do people want to do that when they can just flash the bios?

[car852]

If you read my whole post, you'd notice that I said nothing about turning a 9550 into a 9600 by using the hardmod. I already flashed my BIOS in my 9550 to a 9600Pro. I was just curious, and wondering if maybe since the core is a little different, maybe hardmodding it into a true 9600 core will get better overclocks or maybe unlock memory bandwidth. (Because apparently the bandwidth is limited to the core, and because of this, the memory on my Powercolor 9550 is limited to overclock at 220MHZ when the RAM chips are rated at 250MHZ.)

[wazzledoozle]

If one were to solder the bridge, would you have to cut the other one?

[W1zzard]

are you sure it is the second resistor? someone with another 9600 says its the first resistor thats different

[wazzledoozle]

http://www.hardinfo.dk/art/site/pic/video/graphiccard/ati_radeon_9600_pro_reference/chip.jpg

He is right

I noticed another difference, pointed out here
http://www.geocities.com/wazzledoozle/difference2.JPG

[W1zzard]

those capacitors are just for stabilizing power .. hmm maybe the first row is for rv360 .. anybody got pics?

[wazzledoozle]

The RV360 has the almost the same resistor layout as the Radeon 9550
http://www.comexgroup.com/videosystem/video_cards/img_asus_r9600xt/chip_rv360.jpg

There are 2 resistors that are different at the bottom right (Pointed out by W1zzard)

Also, I just ordered some copper ramsinks from newegg, ill see if that gets me to the 250 MHz the ram si rated at.

[sweeper]

Not sure about all this hard modding. My Gigabyte R9550 will run @ 390 / 270 (stock: 250/200). Although not as fast as a 9600 Pro, it's a decent overclock without flashing the BIOS or Hard Modding.

Even if I wanted to flash the bios, gigabytes card will not allow for a flash. It's bios is locked. And yes I have tried every possible flash program , path, etc. It just won't flash.

[wazzledoozle]

Not sure about all this hard modding. My Gigabyte R9550 will run @ 390 / 270 (stock: 250/200). Although not as fast as a 9600 Pro, it's a decent overclock without flashing the BIOS or Hard Modding.

Even if I wanted to flash the bios, gigabytes card will not allow for a flash. It's bios is locked. And yes I have tried every possible flash program , path, etc. It just won't flash.
You probably need a new cooler, does your card currently have a fan or just a heatsink?

[W1zzard]

look at the 4 resistors below the line of 3 :)

[wazzledoozle]

Here is a comparison shot, differences shown between RV350 and 9550-
http://www.geocities.com/wazzledoozle/compare2.JPG

Now who will solder these points on a 9550 and see what difference it makes?

[sweeper]

Not me.... don't think it will do much good unless you have a resister to put in there to solder.

[wazzledoozle]

Not me.... don't think it will do much good unless you have a resister to put in there to solder.
They are not actually resistors, they are bridges. Or I could be wrong. The capacitors on the top right arent moddable but just pointed out to show the difference.

W1zzard, do these bridges have to have a certain amount of conductivity? Also, if I were to solder to bridge on to middle right, would I have to cut the original connection?

[car852]

Crap. I just flashed my Powercolor 9550 to a 9600XT and now my computer is blank. Just to post I am using my PCI card. Does anyone know how to save a bad flashed card? I tried flashing but according to ATIFlash there is no ATI adapter. I have had this problem a couple of times with different cards and bad BIOS flashes. some can be saved, but others say there is no adapter. Anyone know how to save a card that according to the flash tool it isn't there?

[W1zzard]

wazzle: bridge = resistor .. resistance doesnt really matter .. common is something in the 1-4 k range so enough current flows but not too much .. adding a 0 ohm bridge on the other side should "override" the setting like with the 9800se hardmod .. i'll try afew things out tomorrow

[ati.bob]

I have downloaded the pictures and made a direct side-by-side comparison.. each difference between these two chips are marked with a different colour...

Red - 2 missing resistors
Green - Difference placement of resistors
Blue, Magenta - Looks like a laser cut, but in a different position between those two chips :confused:

[W1zzard]

the "laser" cut is too precise to be a laser cut .. i would just say its a new layout revision

the capacitors can not control anything .. i would just say its a new layout revision

i think the resistors are key .. naked 9550 board is already lying on my table waiting for the solder iron :)

[W1zzard]

i assume those pictures are coprighted from another site?

[ati.bob]

Err.. I don't think so.. I compiled it from the pictures linked by wazzledoozle..:D

[ati.bob]

the "laser" cut is too precise to be a laser cut .. i would just say its a new layout revision

the capacitors can not control anything .. i would just say its a new layout revision

i think the resistors are key .. naked 9550 board is already lying on my table waiting for the solder iron :)

Erm.. not sure about the laser cut.. looks like one from the pict.. :D

Wow.. a 9550 card ready to be trashed..:D Do post the results here W1zzard..! ;)

[Dedodido]

o.o


let us all knwo how it goes! :D

[wazzledoozle]

Bob, also look at the lower right resistors. I missed that also :rolleyes:

[car852]

Wow. I didn't realize the R350 core has so many different revisions. When I first posted this thread, the only difference in MY 9600 core and 9550 core was that ONE bridge difference in the first pic. I guess everyones card is different almost. Very interesting...

[ati.bob]

Bob, also look at the lower right resistors. I missed that also :rolleyes:

Oh.. OK.. I've updated my previous post with a newer pict.. :D

[wazzledoozle]

Oh.. OK.. I've updated my previous post with a newer pict.. :D
Since were taling about the 9550/RV350 here is a more relevant comparison-
http://www.geocities.com/wazzledoozle/compare2.JPG
Thanks@Dedodido

[Dedodido]

use the [*IMG][*/IMG] tags (without the *s)

[W1zzard]

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/05-01-18/mess.jpg

been soldering a lot .. no my gpu didnt explode :)

[Nobru_rv]

Wizzard,why didnt you put some soldering paste? ;-)))) Kiddin'. :-)
Now,what did you discover? Anything new? I really cannot see what is the purpose of this soldering. Rv350/rv360/9550 cores have 4 pipes and can go high clocks if u have a good bios. I dont think that hardmodding is neccessary like with the 9800se cards whe you can unlock 4 more pipes.

[W1zzard]

yeah so far its about the same as the bios .. i could change the device ids around .. thats it

[wazzledoozle]

Well I got the copper ramsinks, and they only gav me a slight more OC, about 4 mhz :(
They are working though, I felt one on top and it was damn hot :D

[blizzard-cro]

Hi guys,
firstly i will say that this site is great and i found many useful information,but i have one question.I bought recently an asus a9550 GE (samsung 4ns) and as i read,i overclocked it with atitool,default 250/200 to 405/300 oc.but after 2 weeks about when i changed my drivers then my RAM crashed after i clocked it even at 260 MHz,i couldnt believe,i got instantly artifacts all over screen... could I damage my RAM with too high oc?i dont believe,but i would hear opinions...
OK, after that i decided to flash bios,with 9600 pro bios of sapphire 4ns samsung.and what i discovered is that now with 9600 pro bios i can keep my card overclocked at 400/270 and i use this settings since 10 days about and everything works fine.....
but i tried also higher ram oc ,but i get artifacts....

i would really like to hear opinions of my post,

thanks!

[sweeper]

Good question considering I run mine at 390/270 24/7............

[Dedodido]

It is possible to damage the RAM if you have it on too high an OC because the chips get too hot and fry. All those tiny connections just get blows to pieces.

[blizzard-cro]

ok,i understand that they can damage,but when they would be damaged my graphic card wouldn`t work at all... isn`t it? i put heatsinks since i bought my card and when my card was clocked i didnt recognize that ram is so hot...but maybe ram´s were too hot.......anyway....

one another question,is it possible to flash gigabyte radeon 9550 128 bit,128 mb, 4.0 ns Hynix ram with 9600 pro bios? my friend has this card and he gets errors,is it really that gigabyte bios is locked?

[Dedodido]

I think it is possible if you can find the right BIOS, but sometimes it can be difficult. I did hear some stuff going around here talking about people having problems trying to overclock gigabyte cards. I'm not too sure, but you could give it a go to find the right bios. I tried to find one a while ago for a card with Hynix mem but couldn't find any easily.

[C&C Freak 2K]

It is possible to damage the RAM if you have it on too high an OC because the chips get too hot and fry. All those tiny connections just get blows to pieces.

Not exactly. Silicon isn't exactly volatile material, although it could get heat damage. Usually, though, heat damage only sets in after you see heavy artifacts (which even one artifact is a sign to underclock or check heat (if you're at default speeds)).

[sweeper]

one another question,is it possible to flash gigabyte radeon 9550 128 bit,128 mb, 4.0 ns Hynix ram with 9600 pro bios? my friend has this card and he gets errors,is it really that gigabyte bios is locked?


I have tried weekend after weekend trying all sorts of Bios's and have yet to find one that will work with my Gigabyte. I read somewhere there is a lock string on the first part of the BIOS.

[blizzard-cro]

I have still my a9550 GE flashed with 9600 pro bios,on OC values 400/270 and i didnt recognize that heatsinks on my ram are hot or so after playing games for few hours...
i think i have found the right OC for my card :) i hope so :rolleyes:

....about Gigabyte cards i read also around,people say that they were not able to flash at all ,even with some special gigabyte flash utility or so...but Gigabyte 9550 has good OC potential,my friend has it OC at 420/270...and i think with bios of 9600 pro they could get even more "power" to clock on higher values than above ,specially RAM....
this lock on gigabyte cards is tricky,who knows maybe exists some utility to modify bios, and to override this string which protects card of flashing it...i searched for it but until now i didnt find nothing useful...

____________________________________
[SIZE=3]Epox 8rda+ nforce2
Athlon XP 2500+ @ 2.0 Ghz /fsb 185
512MB Kingmax DDR PC 4000
Asus Radeon 9550 GE 128MB 128-bit flashed to 9600 pro 400/270
Seagate 160 GB ATA/100 7200RPM 8MB Cache
16x DVD / 48x24x48 CDRW
Millenium case 350w

[sweeper]

Mine overclocks decent: (stock: 250/200) - (overclocked: 390/270) . But I would like a way to have the extra voltage to the card for even more of a core/memory overclock. ;)

[blizzard-cro]

yeah... i will let you know if i find something for gigybyte...some 9600 (pro,non-pro) bios which will match to 9550...
when i flashed my asus card with 9600 pro ,it changed into 9600 XT, not pro ver. :)
thats also weird...
i wish you luck in search for more "power" ;)

[inconel]

By these definitions you will see that XT result is not too strange. Of course it will not be XT without low-K technology of true XT chip.

Most likely the three black horizontal strap resistors for 9600...

upper strap resistor controls Mobility Radeon <-> Radeon (DEV_ID 4Exx <-> 41xx)
middle strap resistor controls Pro, Non-Pro <-> XT (DEV_ID xx50 <-> xx52) (9550 = xx53 through BIOS)
lower strap resistor controls Radeon <-> FireGL T2 (DEV_ID xx50 <-> xx54)

For improved results to 9550, I suggest relocation of upper vertical black strap resistor to left pads (same as 9600).

Perhaps the experimentation is best left to W1zzard if it has not already been done.

Credit to CAI in Russia for 9600 discoveries.

[90125]

Giga-Byte Radeon 9550 Bios Flashing Command:

with Flashrom 2.40

flashrom -p -sst 0 newbios.bin -f

[blizzard-cro]

i can not find flashrom 1.4, just 2.x version....
can you give me a link to download it?

thanks

[90125]

Try this:

http://www.radeon.ru/downloads/bios.html

[90125]

ups ! :)
my mistake!
I would like to say flashrom 2.40
sorry!

[blizzard-cro]

ah no problem,you helped me a lot,i try this with my friend...
i let you know if lucked!

thanks!

[sweeper]

Blizzard... What bios did you use. I was able to use the command successfully that 90125 provided with a GeCube 9600 Pro 398/200 bios. Though as you stated it shows up as a 9600XT .... odd. I am going to try the Saphire 398/250 bios. As long as I stay under 270 on the memory I am ok. Thanks for the command!!!!!!!! Finally able to get it to flash. ;)

[sweeper]

No go with the Sapphire Bios. Gave me errors, artifacts, etc. Flashed back to the GeCube 9600 Pro Bios. I haven't tried the Powercolor 9600 Pro 398/200 bios yet. But I doubt it would be any better than the GeCube's. I can run 400/270 at best. Oh well... :)

[inconel]

It was not mentioned in my earlier post, but I should also say that each move of the horizontal resistors also toggles REV_ID between 00 and 80. Of the two vertical resistors, only the upper resistor seems to be able to toggle Revision ID.
To convert 9550 to 9600 Pro, two resistors would need to be relocated as well as a BIOS flash to prevent the card from being read as 9550 or 9600 SE.
Of course if overclock results are already optimal with BIOS flash alone, this information is.... Well... Just informational. ;)

[bim27142]

anyone around here stripped down naked a gecube 9550XT card? the default for this card is 400/250 and is natively recognize as 9600XT by windows... i wonder what gecube did to these cards? and ive heard, the later revision even clocked higher (432/277)... it's like buying a factory OC'ed card... :)

[ati.bob]

Oh man... anyone got detailed step-by step instructions to convert a "vanilla" 9550 into a 9600 Pro? :o

[Dadoremix]

anyone have bios from ati 9600 pro or XT with hynix 4.0 ns 128 ddr ram?

i have testet with ati gigabyte 9550 to chanche bios to 9600 pro or xt .. from ATI BIOS Collection with no name ram .. .. none of working :( always dark screen :(

[sweeper]

Are you saying you flashed your Gigabyte 9550 or tried to and get no screen after the flash? Do you have the 128MB, 128-bit or 128MB, 64-bit version?

I have only found 2 Bios's that will work with the Gigabyte 128MB, 128-bit card:

GeCube 9600 Pro 128 MB Feb 3rd 2004 2:05 PM Apr 18th 2004 5:25 PM 398 / 203,Hynix 5.0

Sapphire 9600 Pro 128 MB Aug 13th 2004 6:11 PM Oct 21st 2004 11:08 AM 400 / 230,Samsung 4.0

[Dadoremix]

yes.. i try flash to another brand : ati,spahire, gecube...

it working only with ati 9550 bios 128 ddr 128 bit . and
ati 9600 256ddr 128 bit .. wit no long :(

my card is gigabyte 9550 128 ddr 128 bit memory ..
and for now its working on orginal bios with 250/200 stock and OC 400/260*2

please give me direct links to bios .. i would try this 2 :)

and yes.. i flash with
flashrom 2.40

flashrom -s -f 0 bios.bin

that command .. the good one is that i have old PCI graphic card :) and i save my new gigabyte 9550



edit..

for bios you type ..
gecube
The requested URLGeCube.9600PRO.128.Hynix50.040203.bin was not found on this server.

[sweeper]

GeCube 9600 Pro 128 MB Feb 3rd 2004 2:05 PM Apr 18th 2004 5:25 PM 398 / 203,Hynix 5.0

Sapphire 9600 Pro 128 MB Aug 13th 2004 6:11 PM Oct 21st 2004 11:08 AM 400 / 230,Samsung 4.0

Both are located on the BIOS download page.

Flashrom -p -sst 0 "BIOS.bin" -f

"I take no responsibility if you damage your card. Those BIOS'S worked for my card but I cannot say they will work for yours."

Sweeper

[Dadoremix]

and witch bios is better?? spahire or gecube??
what is now on your car .. and how high you OC?

I go to test this bios on my card :)

[sweeper]

using the GeCube 398/250 BIOS now.

[warlock110]

i just got a 9550 abit, that one came with 3.6ns rams, i was able to get the ram to 250 (i didn't wanna push it) and my GPU is at 440 (didn't wanna push it either without better cooling. i scored 3200 on 3D mark 03. Any ideas on how to upgrade the cooling? the card came with a crappy 40mm fan that i can probably swat my hand and produce more wind than it can.

[sweeper]

I'm using a Zalman ZM80-C HP with the optional ZM-OP1 Fan and BGA MOSFET passive heat dissipater's on my RAM. The heatsinks on the ram didn't really do much for it's overclock ability but I thought I would throw them on there to help keep the ram cool, though the fan does the job just fine. ;)

[warlock110]

man that's too expensive :) i got this card brand new for 65, so i'm not spending more than 20 bucks on cooling :). i was thinking of the iceberg, and since it comes with 4 ramsink, all i got to do is chop 4 more, and use their thermal tape :) dam i got midterm tomorrow, or else i'm hitting up on fry.

i think i got a RV350 core, how high does this one hit? i put it on 450 and it blacked out on me during 3Dmark, ATITool said the max was 460, need new cooling? the ram is rated at 3.6ns, so they are good till 275, maybe i can edge out and push it to 285.

[sweeper]

Well it scores 3500+ in 3Dmark 2k3, so I'm happy. ;) Plus I traded some other pc stuff for the Zalman so it didn't really cost me much. Got the BGA Ramsinks of the net too. Got a set of 8 for .75 each.

[warlock110]

oh crap, my card's mem get so much artifact @ 275 that it blacked out after a min. and if i set it to 430/250 i'm getting blacked out after 1 hour of artifact search, i think my cooling isn't good enough.

the stock cooling used a thick pad that was much thicker than my layer of TIM, (the stock cooling also had a "CPU trim" attached to the heatsink, i'm still using the CPU trim so i don't think that my TIM is touching the core properly.

[sweeper]

Get a better cooling system for that card!!!!!!

Zalman ZM80-C HP with the optional ZM-OP1 Fan and BGA MOSFET passive heat dissipater's

[warlock110]

i'll go check out my local fry and see what they got, ram sink is a must, but i don't kow if i can afford ZM80