My school project

[Casheti]

Okay. So basically my idea was to make a candlestick holder (kinda boring I know, sorry).

These were my Initial Ideas (sorry about the size)

http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/5408DSC01196.JPG

And I ended up choosing the design on the bottom right.

Okay, so let's put this into 3DS Max 9 to make a 3D render. This wasn't my first time with max, but I'm still an amazingly thick n00b, and I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I ended up this as my initial design.

http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/4886Sweet.JPG

Okay. So it varied a fair bit from my initial idea, but it wasn't so bad. Looks a bit bare though. What can I do to improve it? Let's try a more complex design.

http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/9274Sweet 2.JPG

Now I'll try and get a metallic material on the base.

http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/1694OMGZ-R.JPG

DUDE WTF HAPPENED TO THE METAL!!!

Hmmmmmmm, not bad, but there's still some minor bugs in the way I made it. Here's where my good friend Vojta Kotek comes in. He's very good with 3DS Max Software and he helped me to iron
out the bugs. Said something about how I hadn't welded anything or something like that :) So basically, I sent the file over to him to improve it. So initially he did over the joints, and added some
different materials, along with some background effects in the render. Also added extra lighting and shadows to improve the overall look.

And here's what it looked like after all his hard work.

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203675_5azak/STAND%20RENDER_SIDE.jpg

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203676_dzanx/STAND_RENDER_FRONT.jpg

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203677_jakuo/STAND_RENDER_TOP.jpg

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203670_k7lk8/STAND%20RENDER_2.jpg

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203672_hed9h/STAND_RENDER_3.jpg

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203673_xidw9/STAND_RENDER_4.jpg

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203671_6tuba/STAND_RENDER_1.jpg

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/203674_pnyck/STAND_RENDER_3D.jpg

So special thanks to Vojta for helping me with my project, couldn't have done it without you ;)

[Zero Cool]

Hey, its me Vojta Kotek. I just registered.

well heres a newer render with some nice wood texture.

http://www.eggdisk.com/files/204066_tjo24/STAND_RENDER_WOOD.jpg

[pt]

not bad casheti :)
what is the material?
steel?

[Casheti]

Not sure what it's gonna be made of yet.

[Zero Cool]

golden plated steel maybe?

[pt]

golden plated steel maybe?

it has to have some paint that doesnt pop out with heat 'cause of the candles ;)

[Zero Cool]

Yellow shiny heat proof paint then haha

[pt]

Yellow shiny heat proof paint then haha

some motor bike paint would do great ;)

[Dippyskoodlez]

Looks like a spiderweb of bars...

then turned it into a candle holder water tower :P

[Casheti]

Teacher said that design would grab the most marks :p

[pt]

Teacher said that design would grab the most marks :p

if you pay me well i can teach you something :D

[Casheti]

I think we both know I won't give you a penny :D You could always teach me anyways though, in return for turning me in.

[pt]

I think we both know I won't give you a penny :D You could always teach me anyways though, in return for turning me in.

not even one of your x1300 :D :D ?
if not, what do you want to know?

[lemonadesoda]

PLEASE DONT EVER MAKE THAT CANDLE STICK. It looks like sh17! It would be a crime to aesthetics. The design police will break down your door and take you away in chains, to be locked up forever.

[pt]

PLEASE DONT EVER MAKE THAT CANDLE STICK. It looks like sh17! It would be a crime to aesthetics. The design police will break down your door and take you away in chains, to be locked up forever.

IT AIN'T THAT BAD!

[JC316]

I think that looks pretty sweet. It needs to be fairly small to be cool though.

[pt]

PLEASE DONT EVER MAKE THAT CANDLE STICK. It looks like sh17! It would be a crime to aesthetics. The design police will break down your door and take you away in chains, to be locked up forever.

and btw, what do you understand of design?

[Casheti]

PLEASE DONT EVER MAKE THAT CANDLE STICK. It looks like sh17! It would be a crime to aesthetics. The design police will break down your door and take you away in chains, to be locked up forever.

I'm hurt...:(

[JC316]

I'm hurt...:(


Don't be, it's one opinon out of quite a few, I thought the design was pretty sweet.

[Casheti]

Thanks :D It's gonna be really hard to make in real life though...I'm not sure how I can make a lip on the actual tealight holders.

[pt]

I'm hurt...:(

there are things out there that really ain't design
this one is, and it look like it has a strong chassis :)

[lemonadesoda]

@cash,

I certainly didnt mean to hurt your feelings mate. :shadedshu

You are at an early stage in your design process... and you NEED TO KEEP GOING. Dont stop yet and make the object. The design is not yet ready.

I can see that you have a tension in your current design. You are obviously a natural engineer, and like "structures that can bear weight" like bridges and other engineering forms. I recommend a little piece of software called "bridge builder". I guarantee you will have hours of fun. But at the same time I can see you are not a natural artist (today). e.g. you dont draw, sketch or paint, etc. But you will probably get a lot better at it, if you learn art through the scientific approach. Let me try to explain.

In design terms, you have committed 3 sins:

1./ Scale. The dimensionality between height, width, breadth, is not right, and the size of the elements is not of a natural order, e.g. lengths and thinness of stalks, vs, shape, depth and weight of the tealights and their holders.

2./ Straight lines and circles. This is a typical "post modern architects rule of the ruler". It's very naiive. Although sometimes that in itself can be a fun element... when used properly... it is hard to use without it looking disconnected. An object designed in this way does not have a natural "envelope" to it. This is a very important aesthetic concept.

3./ Angles < 90 degrees: Triangles look tense. Open angles and curves look relaxed an natural. These design elements are used everywhere without you really noticing the rule. Look at horror: films, graphics, fonts, etc... all tense and angular... whereas look at happy, relaxed, "cool and trendy", peaceful, or calm elements... and notice the different in design. Open angles, curves, roundedness, transitions rather than abrupt changes.

So... keep going. Try some pencil sketch edits to your design and post here... and we can all give you more feedback.

I think everyone here want to encourage you... me too... but encouragement also means MAKING YOU WORK TO DO SOMETHING EVEN BETTER... not just saying what you have got is good enough!

Good luck! Hope to hear some more (see some more) ...

[lemonadesoda]

@pt

and btw, what do you understand of design?I own a design company. I ought to know. Hopefully ;-P LOL :roll:

[Casheti]

Well as you can see from my intial idea it is a big variation from what I set out to do.

[pt]

@pt

I own a design company. I ought to know. Hopefully ;-P LOL :roll:

cool then
can i know the name? :)

[lemonadesoda]

Sorry pt, you know sometimes there is a need for anonymity. But I'm happy to help casheti if he's got questions on his design.

[Casheti]

P.S Anybody who knows how to fix my material problem on my base, PLEASE let me know.

http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/1694OMGZ-R.JPG

It was done in 3DS Max 9. :D

[lemonadesoda]

@casheti,

I think your initial ideas were more promising. Try evaluating all your ideas against the points I made in the previous post.

Look at that first pencil drawing of the "3 tealights on a matchstick bridge" design. It's much better:

1./ You balance the weight and size of the tealight holder with the multiple sticks holding it up

2./ The tealight holder is angled "in", mirroring the sticks holding it angled "out"

3./ There is a more natural "envelope" around the design

4./ Under the middle candle, there is a "body" shape... although made of triangles (tense)... the overall body shape provides a virtual body with open angles ie. >90 degrees (calm)

5./ However, the base is too small for safety, unless you make it thicker, heavier. I would suggest making it (nearly) as think as the tealighter itself... it would be a natural design reflection.

As you can see, IMO it would be better to start again with your earlier design and keep trying.

Just consider all the time you spent making the 3D graphics as some fun learning the software and lighting etc. In fact, why not take something like that first pencil sketch and try rendering it too? Compare them. See if you can imagine how the "bad" design would "flow" into the better design... and keep "flowing"... to get your final design.

[pt]

Sorry pt, you know sometimes there is a need for anonymity. But I'm happy to help casheti if he's got questions on his design.

kk
you're right about somethings
i don't like straight lines and circles much, but it's not baddly aplied here, it reminds a lot of enginering bridges, in my case like i told to casheti before on msn, i would do something easier to build, probabily 'cause i'm a heavy supporter of funcionalism :D and a candle holder doesn't need to be so complicated

[Casheti]

See all the time you spend making the 3D graphics as some fun learning the software and lighting etc.

In fact, why not take something like that first pencil sketch and try rendering it too.

I didn't find making this 3D model fun at all :p It was stressful. Gave me a headache :banghead: Because I'm such a n00b it takes me a hell of a long time. I'm still trying to figure out how to do the lighting and shadows. I'll have to ask Vojta tomorrow.

[pt]

I didn't find making this 3D model fun at all :p It was stressful. Gave me a headache :banghead: Because I'm such a n00b it takes me a hell of a long time. I'm still trying to figure out how to do the lighting and shadows. I'll have to ask Vojta tomorrow.

pen/pencil and a paper :)
you can start

[Casheti]

pen/pencil and a paper :)
you can start

Casheti + drawing = someone having a heart attack and dying...:D Yes, they're THAT bad.

[lemonadesoda]

Cash... it's OK m8... it only comes WITH PRACTISE. Start now...

[pt]

Casheti + drawing = someone having a heart attack and dying...:D Yes, they're THAT bad.

starting in a putter ain't a good idea too
do you know anything about perspectives? :)

[Casheti]

Yeah I do :)

[pt]

Yeah I do :)

that's a good start
try drawing each part in separate 1st

[Casheti]

Well here's my base design.

http://img.techpowerup.org/070129/DSC01206.jpg

As you can see in my 3D renders I made the base too big, but I might want to keep it that way in the final design. I'm doing some more work on it tomorrow.

[pt]

not a bad drawing at all
im off to school now, i help you later ;)

[JC316]

You think your drawing is bad? You should see mine. A 4 year old with ADD can draw better than me, and Lemonade, it dosen't get better with practice. I have done it every day for 10 years and it didn't get any better with time.

[pt]

You think your drawing is bad? You should see mine. A 4 year old with ADD can draw better than me, and Lemonade, it dosen't get better with practice. I have done it every day for 10 years and it didn't get any better with time.

you draw everyday in the last 10 years an still looks bad?
can you post a draw?

[lemonadesoda]

A 4 year old with ADD can draw better than me, and Lemonade, it dosen't get better with practice
Like whistling, playing the piano, or picking up chicks... you ain't going to get better unless you TRUELY want to make an effort to learn. And just reading a book in 5 minutes wont make much difference. You need to WORK at it. Practice practice practice. And having a tutor, teacher, or expert tips, will help.

[Casheti]

picking up chicks...

lol :roll:

[lemonadesoda]

@cash... I can see you like rulers and compasses...

... learn to let go. Go freehand... let it flow... look at Picasso... or Philippe Stark, not a ruler in sight.

[Zero Cool]

hehe, btw I do know whats with ur material. I forgot to tell you. The base had a vertex error in it, there was this messup. well now its ok. I will post a render of my redesigned version soon

[Zero Cool]

Casheti is temporarly unable to post, so I will do the next update for him.
he said this is the best he can do and its finished.
http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/735MVC-002F.JPG
I'm just pullin' ye legs xD, he said this is very rough and he will not continue doing it, but will start over.

[Zero Cool]

I just noticed, omg is that blood on the table??

[J0N]

Ahhh! We have those desks at my school! Classy stuff!

[lemonadesoda]

BLOOD!!! Where is Casheti? Was making this candlestick the LAST THING HE DID?

I knew it would go wrong... Casheti!!!! It's the design police! They came and took him away. Obviously a bit of a struggle though. See the blood. He tried to fight. Never fight the police. Oh Casheti. Call for a doctor. We'll try and rescue you.

[Dippyskoodlez]

From an engineering perspective, that design... is rather... unnecessarily complicated.

That, and wood probably isnt the greatest of a material to make this thing out of lol

The angled holes lining up with eachother to form somewhat a pyramid, is gonna be a pain, without some measuring and accurate hold down tools with a drill press.

I would suggest making the base round, last. Using a square base in a vice to be able to measure the holes locations and angles, etc..


As for drawing not improving over time, not doing it correctly will make your drawings worse :P

But I do see a few problems with the technical drawing above..

Theres no hole sizes, no drill angles, no distanced from eachother, how is this planning to be calculated? lol!

[lemonadesoda]

Have to agree with Dip...

... and it looks like casheti gave up already.

[pt]

Have to agree with Dip...

... and it looks like casheti gave up already.

he isn't allowed to post ;)

[Zero Cool]

no, he did not ( well maybe) he was going to do the design again with metal rods, for they are well easier to use for such project

[Casheti]

Haven't posted in here for ages but here it is so far pretty much...

http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/921DSC00958.JPG

http://www.lotechdesigns.com/host/images/6984DSC00956.JPG