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AshenSugar
02-04-2007, 09:07 AM
The cost of a CD should be exponentially higher, according to the RIAA

03:45 PM EST on Friday, February 2, 2007



The Recording Industry Association of America hasn't been making too many friends these days. I guess I should say that the organization does have many friends inside the music industry, because that's who makes up the the RIAA.

I'm not here to argue whether it's right or wrong to download free music where it's available, or whether it's OK to listen to your friend's "Beach Boys Greatest Hits Album." I'm just here to point out what the RIAA wants you to believe about the cost of music and CDs.

If you visit the Key Stats/Facts page on the RIAA website, you'll notice a justification for pricing CDs. The biggest argument appears to be the fact that the Consumer Price Index rose nearly 60 percent between 1983 and 1996, even though the price of a CD actually went down. While this might be a true statement, this is virtually worthless in determining how much a CD should cost.

Let's examine this statement, directly from the website:If CD prices had risen at the same rate as consumer prices over this period, the average retail price of a CD in 1996 would have been $33.86 instead of $12.75.

I know that the CPI has risen, but these numbers don't seem to translate properly. So I visited the Bureau of Labor Statistics Data site u>, which contains a CPI Inflation Calculator. Unfortunately, I needed the initial value (of a CD in 1983), instead of the theoretical value in 1996. Since I didn't have that, I just guessed until I came up with $33.86 in 1996. I finally found that value: $21.50.

This means that the RIAA is claiming that the average cost of a CD in 1983 was $21.50. How many CDs have you purchased for more than $20?

True, the CD was new technology at the time, and it's quite possible that the price, in some places, was more than $20. Where the RIAA deviates from basic technology knowledge, however, is that more often than not, the cost of producing something like a CD almost always goes down over time.

What better example of electronics getting cheaper than taking a look at the history of the calculator. From the website listed above, Texas Instruments came out with a calculator in 1972 (TI-2500) that cost $119.95 (actually, the suggested retail price was $149.99). If we take a look at the CPI inflation calculator, using the calculator cost and a 13-year span, from 1972 to 1985 (the same time length the RIAA used), we see that the calculator should have cost about $308.77 in 1985.

Maybe this isn't fair, considering the time periods are different. So I'll try $119.95 in 1983, and the value in 1996 is $188.96.

How much do you think a calculator that could do only basic math functions (add, subtract, divide, multiply) was worth in 1996? By 1981, Texas Instruments had already developed a model that included more functionality for $19.99. Granted, the technology involving calculators and CDs are vastly different. My point is that when you are in the technology world, most of your products, with the same level of functionality, do not get more expensive.

The CPI is useful for looking at the prices of raw material, grocery items, etc. Sorry RIAA, but buying a CD isn't like buying a bushel of Korn.

http://www.whas11.com/news/woods/stories/WHAS11_OUTOFTHEWOODS_020207b.44a095ba.html

and another artical

February 03, 2007
Artists Aren't Starving Because of Piracy

By Marion Jensen

In the age of digital media, piracy runs rampant. It is now as easy to share music or a movie as it is to share an idea. With the press of a button, you can share your digital content with 3, 300, or 3 billion people. It's just that easy.

So in recent years, we've been fed all sorts of (dis)information about copyright laws. “Think of the artists” we're told. If you download music, somewhere there is a poor, struggling artist who can't feed his kids.

It's all hogwash, and we'll use the Socratic method to show why.


Who makes the laws?

a) Congress
b) The President
c) The Tidy Bowl Man
d) Earl

If you guessed A, pat yourself on the back. Congress writes laws. Congress passes laws, and nobody can stop them except for the President (and he can be overruled), or judges (many of whom you know wear leotards under their robes).

Where does Congress come up with laws?

a) They're smart people, they come up with ideas on their own
b) They listen to the people who elected them, weigh the benefits and consequences carefully, and then write up laws
c) They ask the Tidy Bowl Man
d) They write whatever they are told, assuming the person doing the telling has lots and lots of money

I know you didn't guess D, because you were too busy snorting milk out your nose after reading answers A and B. You couldn't see through the tears of hilarity to see that the proper answer is in fact D. But, D it is. And no, that is not just cynicism, I spent 6 months in DC, and you better believe this is exactly how it works.

Who has more money and is better organized?

a) Artists
b) The record/movie/book publishing companies
c) The Tidy Bowl Man

Artists don't have any money, and if the Tidy Bowl Man did, do you think he'd be living in the crapper? Publishers/Recording Artists/Movie Producers are better organized and do better lobbying. Plus they have all the money they've made off the backs of the artists. They are the ones who get members of congress to write the laws. Don't believe me? Look up the Sony Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. Then look at who lived in Sony Bono's district.

Who do these producers really care about?

a) Artists
b) Teenagers who like to listen to/watch/ read media
c) No one but themselves

Let's think of how many millions of artists never really make it because they've signed away just about anything they have created, or will create, to get a shot at 'making it'. Let's think of the thousands of customers the RIAA has attempted to sue out of existence. That leaves us with C.

There is an entire industry that leeches off the creative talent of legions of artists. The artists, almost without exception, never make it big. Oh sure, there are the Steven Kings, J. K. Rowlings, Beatles, and more who do manage to make it, and make it big. But do you think that these folks build the industry? They are nothing more than the icing on the cake. It is the thousands of authors and musicians who never make it big, who are the bread and butter of the producers. The ones nobody hears about, and so nobody cares about. They write a few songs, write a few books, and 90-95 percent of the earning ends up in the pocket of the publishers. The artists go back to their day jobs, most of the time with no 'intellectual property' to show for it. The producers own the copyright and distribution rights.

Intellectual Property laws do nothing for the artists. It is the industry behind them, the ones who wrote the law to begin with, who are making all the money, and keeping mountains of content, culture, and enjoyment from the masses.

These suits are the 'anti-spock'. The greeds of the few outweigh the enjoyment of the many.

http://www.computers.net/2007/02/artists_arent_s.html

Scavar
02-04-2007, 09:16 AM
I have to say, I find all of that to be quite true. I wish I could find where it was that I was reading about it once not to long ago, but artist, at least ones that have some following, make the majority of their money through Public Appearances(such as concerts and record singings) and T-Shirt(and other such things)sales.

AshenSugar
02-04-2007, 09:32 AM
yeah, thats what kid rock has said more then once, he acctualy got in trouble with his lable once for putting a cd online HIMSELF!!!!
he feels it boosts sales if people know what they are getting, funny shit really!!!!!

the riaa losses $ to this because they sell recordings, the artists make more from tours and such then they ever make from cd sales.

an artical i was reading said the cost of the avrage audio cd including production and distro and all that is around .02-.05, the avrage dvd movie is .05-.07 in cost, thats a HUGE diffrance from what they claim.

also they make the bulk of the $ on movies from boxoffice not retail sales, this ofcorse isnt true for things that are dvd only, or that like serinity(firefly movie) that where poorly promoted(or that lerry the cable guy as a health inspector movie, funny shit, would have payed 8bucks to see that if i had known it was in theiters)

u know the truely funny part, alot of movies sales go UP because of piracy!!!! no joke, check some top movies like doom, i aquiered a download of it just after it hit theiters, then got a copy of the dvd in h264 format, then i liked it so i got it at hollywood used(closest movie place) checked the comments at the site i used and about 1/3 of the posts where talking about how the people liked it so much they where buying it or already went and got it on dvd.

these companys need to get with the times, offer high quility cheap media downloads to the world and stop this price gouging crap. oh and fuk drm!!!

ex_reven
02-04-2007, 09:37 AM
i wonder if its much different when they sign on with smaller record labels

AshenSugar
02-04-2007, 09:58 AM
small lables are harder to come by, its one reason that so many artists have such a hard time getting "disscovered" because if the top companys dont want you to work, u dont work.

i have heard good stuff, that was IGNORED because its not what some record people think is "in" at the moment

where they 1/2 as smart as they think they are they would realise that damn neer anything decent will sell, hell i have seen stuff that i considered rabbid screaching sell good/great when i thought it wouldnt sell at all!!!!!!!!

as the old saying gos, theres no accounting for taist.

its a mirical(sp) that we get any new music at all the way the industry works, i mean these are the people who brought you the backdoor boys...i mean backstreet boys, and britney spears and on and on, im suprised that the likes of mudvayne, Evanescence, 3 Doors Down, Disturbed and on and on got a chance.

mind you i listen to MANY types of music and stuff that i cant even understand the words to!!! (such as anime OST's)

the internet would be the PERFECT way for them to get noticed, but alot of small artists are afrade to put their stuff online because the riaa has made issue of it b4, if its not licenced and copyrighted they like to try and make an issue of it being shared, if it is licenced and copyrighted same deal :P

its crazy, i have seen the RIAA attack small stores that sold mix tapes/cd's of local artists that are not signed, one place got tore up and closed down for almost 3 weeks, all because according to the riaa they where selling pirated music, the funny part is those "pirated disks" where burned by the artists who made the music who had nothing to do with the riaa.

AshenSugar
02-04-2007, 10:15 AM
Comments

Authors and musicians are different -- all my books show that the author retains the copyrights, my CDs show that the publisher/record company owns the copyright.

Posted by: Jason | Feb 3, 2007 7:07:23 PM

Authors do retain the copyright, but publishers retain the printing and distribution rights. So the author 'owns' the work, but if he prints off a copy and gives it to his mother, he's just violated the law. He would have to get written permission from his publisher first.

And depending on the contract that was signed (almost always benifiting the publisher), the author cannot get these rights back for years, decades, or possibly even until the work moves into the public domain.

You are correct, however, this is slightly better than most musicians, who don't even get to keep their songs. It's like being dipped up to your eyebrows in horse manuer, instead of being completely dunked.

Posted by: Marion Jensen | Feb 3, 2007 7:47:59 PM

I wanna see a mainstream torrent site put up a poll that says, "How many albums do you buy every year?" It could really help or hurt the cause.

Posted by: MaddenDude | Feb 4, 2007 1:34:11 AM

As a musical artist myself, I have to say this- while I don't disagree with any of the individual assertions you have made in the contents of this article, your title and introduction don't really match the rest of your article. Your logic seems a bit flawed. According to you Congress and rich people make laws, Artists routinely get shafted by the record companies, and the combination of these two things means that the artists aren't affected by piracy. That is not the case at all- if your arguments are correct (and I do agree with them), the artists have even less, so every cent out of their pockets hurts more. Recently, one of my major works was ripped off by a video-game company in china, who then went on to make a profit off my song, which they charged users to download. Eventually, somebody ripped the song, and it is now on multiple p2p networks. I've never seen a cent for it, and am likely not to, since everybody who is interested in it already has the final cut of it. Am I starving because of piracy? No, but when it comes to getting cash on a semi-consistent basis, piracy certainly doesn't help.

Posted by: Matthew | Feb 4, 2007 1:49:49 AM

Such a cynical view. I'd like to point out that in this case, its actually beneficial that the lobbyists with the money have the influence in congress, because this is a discussion about money and, more generally, property. I don't think anyone contends that piracy takes food off of artists' tables. What concerns people is that those responsible for the art are not getting what they deserve for it. By those responsible i mean all of those involved with the process. Artists, publishers, marketers, interns, secretaries, shareholders, and janitors. Its not a matter of "need", just a matter of property. Our society is based on the concept that you shouldn't take things that you haven't been given. I think too many people overlook this simple moral imperative.

rofl

ex_reven
02-04-2007, 10:17 AM
small lables are harder to come by, its one reason that so many artists have such a hard time getting "disscovered" because if the top companys dont want you to work, u dont work.

i have heard good stuff, that was IGNORED because its not what some record people think is "in" at the moment

where they 1/2 as smart as they think they are they would realise that damn neer anything decent will sell, hell i have seen stuff that i considered rabbid screaching sell good/great when i thought it wouldnt sell at all!!!!!!!!

as the old saying gos, theres no accounting for taist.

its a mirical(sp) that we get any new music at all the way the industry works, i mean these are the people who brought you the backdoor boys...i mean backstreet boys, and britney spears and on and on, im suprised that the likes of mudvayne, Evanescence, 3 Doors Down, Disturbed and on and on got a chance.

mind you i listen to MANY types of music and stuff that i cant even understand the words to!!! (such as anime OST's)

the internet would be the PERFECT way for them to get noticed, but alot of small artists are afrade to put their stuff online because the riaa has made issue of it b4, if its not licenced and copyrighted they like to try and make an issue of it being shared, if it is licenced and copyrighted same deal :P

its crazy, i have seen the RIAA attack small stores that sold mix tapes/cd's of local artists that are not signed, one place got tore up and closed down for almost 3 weeks, all because according to the riaa they where selling pirated music, the funny part is those "pirated disks" where burned by the artists who made the music who had nothing to do with the riaa.

i had a video once of men in gas masks with RIAA on their kevlar vests commando assaulting a house and machine gunning little kids inside to death from watching a pirated dvd or something lol...

AshenSugar
02-04-2007, 10:58 AM
if they could get away with it they would, anything to scare the shit out of people so they wont download/copy dvd's/cd's

hell they 12yo girls and dead people why not gun down little susy pigtails for watching a copyed dvd of the little mermade because her player cant play the orignal thanks to their DRM crap ;)

Aevum
02-05-2007, 04:53 AM
the main problem with the drop in sales of CDs is that the current music is usualy targeted at teenagers, which are the most DISLOYAL consumer group ever, by producing mostly crap pop music, insted of competing with them selfs, they now have to compete with other items teens want, designer clothing, tech gadgets, cellphones, you tell a teenager that he can either buy 3 cd´s or a pair a polo jeans, he will go for the jeans, time after time,

but do not dispair, the riaa still makes its cash trough secundary licencing, music for movies, TV, attempting to chage for fair usage, Ringtone downloads, market saturation, taxation on blank media, mp3 players and storage devices as "compensation for piracy" (which contradicts the presumption of innocense, which is base for western law systems),

with the revenues coming from those sources, the music industry isnt exactly bleeding cash, actually, i think their doing better, but the fall in what they define as their "main" revenue stream, CD sales, has allowed them to cry wolf and use it as an excuse for things like reducing artist royalties, imposing tougher restrictions on what you can do with music you allready bought, and basicly rape Fair usage rights,

heres two little stories for you, both about a company i use to admire and now i´ve grown to hate,

the original walkman had TWO headphone connectors, this was so the walkman wouldnt be seen as a egoistic invention designed to disconnect people from the world, it was so you could share your music with another person, listen togather to the same tape,

when the VCR came out, JVC (VHS), Sony (BetaMax) and Philips (V2000) were sued by the MPAA becuase they claimed that the VCR would kill the TV and movie industry, thankfully, the VCR producers not only won the case, but that case lead to the Home Recording Act, which allowed people to legaly record off TV aslong as they did not keep the copy for more then a specific time period or try to sell it, which is the basis of Modern Fair Use,

now from those 3 companies, i do not know JVC´s current stand, but i do know this,

philips co developed the CD with sony, they made sure the format would succede by opening the format licencing insted of using the sony "keep it closed and make them pay" policy that killed the Betamax, the minidisk and the UMD (and several other less famous formats), and also fought CD based DRM by insisting that DRM CD´s can not carry Compact Disk certification becuase they were not fully compatible with CD players on the market,
in the mp3 age, Philips did implement some DRM on their players, but thats another story (about riaa pressure on the most popular or big MP3 player producers)

on the other side we have sony, which sold its principles and has become one of the biggest advocates of DRM, including the famous Rootkit fiasco,

the way those 3 companies stood up for fair use rights with the VCR, was admiriable, but today, you can see who stands by their principles, and who discarts them when you can squeeze the last dime out of a consumer.

DanTheBanjoman
02-05-2007, 10:09 AM
They aren't starving? Then why have I been sending these Western Union money transfers to Beethoven for the past 3 years?

lemonadesoda
02-05-2007, 03:40 PM
The RIAA should start working for detroit. Help them sell cars. Under the new RIAA car license:

1./ You buy the right to drive a car and park it in your garage
2./ You do not own the car... you cannot sell it... you can only throw it away if you don't like it
3./ If you don't like it within the first 24hrs... bad luck... you already "enjoyed" driving it once... and you cannot return it ever for any kind of refund
4./ You cannot park the car in anyone elses garage
5./ You cannot let anyone else, even members of your family, drive your car
6./ You are only allowed to fill up the car at designated petrol stations
7./ If you carpool you will be sued
8./ If you pick up hitchikers you will be sued

:roll:

Alec§taar
02-05-2007, 04:29 PM
I have to say, I find all of that to be quite true. I wish I could find where it was that I was reading about it once not to long ago, but artist, at least ones that have some following, make the majority of their money through Public Appearances(such as concerts and record singings) and T-Shirt(and other such things)sales.

That's right & I agree: Who profits by it? NOT THE ARTISTS!

:)

* Not like the 'middlemen leaches' do... who really do NOTHING more than "buy it for a buck, & sell it for 2 bucks"... huckster scums.

It's fairly easy to do for the "connected scum" out there that MAKE & CONTROL THE RULES/LAWS, via the best money can buy: U.S. Politicians.

APK

P.S.=> They KNOW their 'cashcow vampiric system' is failing vs. digital computing, & are 'grabbing @ razors' like a drowning man would... even to the point of 'coercing' Microsoft to mess w/ VISTA hugely (DRM b.s.) crippling it, in effect, vs. 2000/XP/Server 2003...

They made SO much cash, they don't want to let that 'easy money' go is why & are pulling 'legal strings' to try to stop it, spending some of what they raped various artists for hugely in order to TRY to do so!

(Especially when they were noobz to that game, like Trent Reznor got robbed by them from what I understand)

GOOD LUCK TO THEM I SAY, THEY WON'T & CAN'T... apk

Khriez
02-05-2007, 06:07 PM
I thought they made all their money from concerts, merchandise, ....commercials ? Perhaps a lot more shit not just the CD's.

Alec§taar
02-05-2007, 09:38 PM
I thought they made all their money from concerts, merchandise, ....commercials ? Perhaps a lot more shit not just the CD's.

The smarter ones, or the ones w/ more decent+honest (if there IS such a thing) agents representing them, do... OR those w/ just 'better guidance'.

Many, don't... & get 'raped' by the usurious "middlemen" types out there, & their cohorts like the RIAA, etc.

:(

* THIS IS LIFE PEOPLE: 10-20% of folks actually DO the production work out here, & 10% make the money (and it's NOT the same group doing both the work & profiting by it, far from it, when you have stockholders/boards of directors (major shareholders w/ preferred stocks) & workers/slaves).

The ONLY THING imo, that kept it "SOMEWHAT EVEN", was unionization.

APK

P.S.=> You'll hear "Well, it takes money to MAKE MONEY, & 'we take risks too'" etc. et al from the usurious group that run stuff...

Sure, it's true... risk in that you had BEST make your repayments schedules is about it...

They take a loan out from some lending institution, or from their own pocket (rare), & roll w/ it, paying others to do the job while you collect the BULK OF THE PROFITS, paying workers who DO THE WORK ITSELF, a pittance/crumbs from your table... putting whips to them to make your business loan deadlines - try doing the work yourself sometime I say!

Think musicians & actors have it much different, vs. the RIAA etc.? apk

AshenSugar
02-06-2007, 01:02 AM
The RIAA should start working for detroit. Help them sell cars. Under the new RIAA car license:

1./ You buy the right to drive a car and park it in your garage
2./ You do not own the car... you cannot sell it... you can only throw it away if you don't like it
3./ If you don't like it within the first 24hrs... bad luck... you already "enjoyed" driving it once... and you cannot return it ever for any kind of refund
4./ You cannot park the car in anyone elses garage
5./ You cannot let anyone else, even members of your family, drive your car
6./ You are only allowed to fill up the car at designated petrol stations
7./ If you carpool you will be sued
8./ If you pick up hitchikers you will be sued

:roll:


dont give them any ideas*shakes head*

we had an RIAA person threten the church i use to work for(setup their audio stuff and fixed their comps, setup a new audio player comp as well) not because we ripped all our disks to ogg for easyer playback/search, but because we played some stuff the riaa rep thought might be RIAA propertie without permission to play it to a croud......i just told her to stuff it and even gave her my card, really the mood i am in with reguards to **aa they dont want to call me :)