Boot Times WTF

[ex_reven]

My computer takes 2 minutes and 30 seconds to get into windows.
It takes another minute and a half to stop lagging enough so that i can run applications
eg - firefox/msn/wmp

Startup list has:
Adobe Gamma Loader
D-Link REG Utility
DWL-G520M Wireless 108G MIMO PCI Adapter Utility
Microsoft Office
Wireless Configuration Utility
ATICCC
Zone Labs Client
Soundmax

Specs: E6400 @3ghz
2gb 800mhz DDR2
320GB SATA II Hard drive
Asus P5B Deluxe

[SK-1]

Adobe,Microsoft Office and Zone all are start-up laggers.
Did you ever try Kerio for your firewall?
Did you check your startup list by doing the MSCONFIG in run?
Also how fast will it shut down,...any hang there?

[Namslas90]

Check/update your Firefox add-ons, also; do you need to start Microsoft Office every time, you can open it anytime from start menu. Office is a hog.

[Alcpone]

It is more likely your hard disk aint happy and/or the system files are corrupted in some way!

150 secs to logon screen is rediculous, considering nothing other than windows itself is being loaded at this point!

I would try a repair windows and see if that helps at all?

also sfc /scannow with your original install disk already in the drive will find corrupted system files from within xp!

[ex_reven]

Adobe,Microsoft Office and Zone all are start-up laggers.
Did you ever try Kerio for your firewall?
Did you check your startup list by doing the MSCONFIG in run?
Also how fast will it shut down,...any hang there?

Isnt adobe gamma necessary for monitor colour correction or something like that?

The boot list is the exact same in MSCONFIG (I used a startup inspector)

It tends to shut down extremely well :D...just start up sucks

[ex_reven]

i stopped all startup processes besides my wireless configuration utility
no joy...

2mins 20

and ive noticed that the majority of the boot time is spent in the "Windows XP loading bar" window and the black screen after it. It spends at least 30 seconds on that loading bar and more than 30 seconds on a black screen...something is definately wrong here

[Alcpone]

i stopped all startup processes besides my wireless configuration utility
no joy...

2mins 20

and ive noticed that the majority of the boot time is spent in the "Windows XP loading bar" window and the black screen after it. It spends at least 30 seconds on that loading bar and more than 30 seconds on a black screen...something is definately wrong here

Try loading in safe mode and see if that loads faster!

[ex_reven]

i have ~35 processes that run following startup
would that have an impact on boot?

[Alcpone]

I have 50 after boot and from post to logon takes my rig 28 secs, then another 8 - 10 secs before I can do anything major!

[ex_reven]

this is absolutely shitting me man...
and im getting WMP shitting itself when i try to run it
the music cuts off for like a sec and then continues

its almost as though my ram/hard drive is a POS...but that cant be true

[Alcpone]

Have you tried what I suggested in my earlier posts?

[ex_reven]

il try safe mode some other time
not really in the mood for a cold boot atm

as i have work due tomorrow :(
thanks though ;)

[Alcpone]

Safe mode will load the bare minimum so that will cut out the software side of things!

Hope you get your work done in time ;)

[Pinchy]

I got same specs as you, ill time mine in safe mode and normal :p...mine seems pretty laggy too (not as bad as urs tho)

[Pinchy]

Well, mine just seemed to lag.

Started a LOT quicker than i expected. It only takes 37 secs to boot and 19 for everything in system tray to load (CCC, Trend, Firefly, SoundMAX, card reader....CCC taking the longest :p)

[TUngsten]

do you have the MB controlling all your case fans in the bios? I know that on my asus p5w I have shut off a lot of the q-fan controls in "hardware monitoring" for a faster boot, as well as disabled the JMicron HDD controller from bios (since I only use the ICHR7).

Also make sure your memory is operating at the proper voltage - I had to set mine @ 2.1v before it would really snap to :)

[Alcpone]

I think its just started doing it recently tungsten! If it was any settings in the bios surely it would of been doing that since forever?

[ex_reven]

yeah all my settings are at auto in bios except cpu frequency and cpu voltage

[Lazzer408]

Download Bootvis and do a trace+driver delays. Maybe that will help you find it.

http://files3.majorgeeks.com/files/e122d05faf63559ce66ff9d98cb413a4/misc/bootvis.msi

Does safemode take as long?

[ex_reven]

Download Bootvis and do a trace+driver delays. Maybe that will help you find it.

http://files3.majorgeeks.com/files/e122d05faf63559ce66ff9d98cb413a4/misc/bootvis.msi

Does safemode take as long?

i havnt tried as of yet

[Pinchy]

i dont remember it being that bad at the start tho...

[lemonadesoda]

swap your drive cables. remove and secondary drives for the moment. Primary partition HDD only

[pt]

could be the motherboard
my pc takes about 30s to reboot (ending all processes/reboot/start all processes) :)

[Lazzer408]

Must be nice. I have $2500 in shit in this core2duo@3.5 including 500gb raid-0 (120mb/s) and 2gb of ram (7500mb/s) and a clean install of XP pro. It still takes 30sec to post (damn you Intel), 1 min to the logon screen, 2min+ before the hdd shuts up and I'm looking at a desktop. I'm convinced xp is programed to take X amount of time to boot no matter what your configuration. I have a 500mhz laptop that boots faster then this.

[pt]

Must be nice. I have $2500 in shit in this core2duo@3.5 including 500gb raid-0 (120mb/s) and 2gb of ram (7500mb/s) and a clean install of XP pro. It still takes 30sec to post (damn you Intel), 1 min to the logon screen, 2min+ before the hdd shuts up and I'm looking at a desktop. I'm convinced xp is programed to take X amount of time to boot no matter what your configuration. I have a 500mhz laptop that boots faster then this.

nop
in reviews, and my experience, my board is one of the fastest to boot to windows
it has nothing to do with xp

[Lazzer408]

For those who don't know this trick. Open notepad and paste the following into it.

set devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices=1
cd\windows\system32
start devmgmt.msc

Save the file as "show_hidden_dev.bat"

Run the file and it will apply the variable to show devices that arn't in the system anymore. This can be external drives, removed volumes, removed hardware, things of that nature. It's kinda like when you looked in the device manager from safemode in Windows 98 and saw doubbles of things.

After devicemanager is open don't forget to tick "show hidden devices" from the view menu. (see pic). You will see the removed hardware as grayed out. Be careful and only removed things like unused harddrives and generic volumes. Don't remove EVERY grayed out item. Stay out of the "Sound video and game controllers" and the "non-plug and play drivers" for example.

This made a noticable improvement (50%) in my boot time on my other computer. I had that system for over 2 1/2 years with the same install and I had 75 volumes that were not in use and over 40 harddrives that weren't in the system anymore!! Windows remembers EVERYTHING. :wtf:

http://img.techpowerup.org/070207/dev_show_hidden.jpg

EDIT - See the attached pic to see what I'm talking about. Those drives have been removed from the system. I have a feeling Windows might "verify" there non-exhistance when it boots hence removing them improved bootup time.

[TUngsten]

that's interesting indeed.

On a side note, I'm getting to the windows screen in 45s and fully operational in 60s in XPx64

[Sasqui]

Sounds like a device time-out... I had a similar problem with my rig when a drive wasn't plugged in correctly. If you have a DVD/CD or any other drive (USB, floppy, etc) - disconnect them one at a time, you might find a culprit.

The other thing is if you have any device enabled in BIOS that for some reason can't be found, it'll wait till the time-out period.

Worth a shot. Luck.

[ex_reven]

Sounds like a device time-out... I had a similar problem with my rig when a drive wasn't plugged in correctly. If you have a DVD/CD or any other drive (USB, floppy, etc) - disconnect them one at a time, you might find a culprit.

The other thing is if you have any device enabled in BIOS that for some reason can't be found, it'll wait till the time-out period.

Worth a shot. Luck.

device time out ay....sounds just like my dvd burner

ive been having constant problems since i got it.
it exists in my computer, but when i try to explore a cd/copy files it says "device I/O error"
sometimes a reboot fixes it, but most time it stays screwed...i fixed it one time, but it just went back to the error after the next boot

il measure startup time with and without dvd drive now

[ex_reven]

i unplugged the dvd drive...

boot times dropped by 1 Minute
to 1:30, which is slightly more reasonable

what the hell do i do about the drive?

[Lazzer408]

i unplugged the dvd drive...

boot times dropped by 1 Minute
to 1:30, which is slightly more reasonable

what the hell do i do about the drive?

That's crazy how one dvd drive could slow you down. Maybe try another brand? Is there another drive on that cable or just the dvd? Try turning on or off dma for that channel. Device manager>ide ata/atapi controllers> choose properties for the channel the drive is on and on the advanced tab set the transfer mode to dma or pio. Try changing that.

[Sasqui]

The DVD drive, eh? Either a cabling problem, a faulty drive, conflict with another device or incorrect drive settings in the BIOS - I was going to ask if you were having problems with it and then read above. Process of eliminitation... could even be a jumper setting on the drive.

I assume it's IDE - do you have any other drives on the same channel/cable?

Could also be access mode settings in BIOS causing compatibility problems.

I'd start with the cable - including the power cable (I actually think my original problem was a bad molex connection - intermittent power)

[Zero Cool]

try some simple things too, like derfregmanting you hdd and deleting all nessescary shit from it/

[ex_reven]

The DVD drive, eh? Either a cabling problem, a faulty drive, conflict with another device or incorrect drive settings in the BIOS - I was going to ask if you were having problems with it and then read above. Process of eliminitation... could even be a jumper setting on the drive.

I assume it's IDE - do you have any other drives on the same channel/cable?

Could also be access mode settings in BIOS causing compatibility problems.

I'd start with the cable - including the power cable (I actually think my original problem was a bad molex connection - intermittent power)

its IDE

its a new cable, but i could try another

cant be the power as ive used three powersupplies in this rig :)

il check bios, photograph some stuff so you guys can check my settings in case i miss something

[ex_reven]

That's crazy how one dvd drive could slow you down. Maybe try another brand? Is there another drive on that cable or just the dvd? Try turning on or off dma for that channel. Device manager>ide ata/atapi controllers> choose properties for the channel the drive is on and on the advanced tab set the transfer mode to dma or pio. Try changing that.

its all set to PIO
when i went back to my computer, now the drive is not even being picked up
il reboot and check

and its not a fragment problem
this computer has only been booted 20 times in its lifespan

[Alec§taar]

Eventvwr.msc is your pal: Use it - it may show what is what here, like some service going nuts trying to start, or device driver etc. et al, as well... clueing you into what is up here!

It may help... especially the SYSTEM & APPLICATIONS sections, based on what you're telling us here!

GOOD LUCK!

APK

P.S.=> Lazzer408, neat trick:

You've made my personal documents archive in that one... thanks, & good job!

I've always just used the menu from the photo you note, & didn't realize a DOS batch "SET" statement could do the job here, & I had NO IDEA this tool has environmental %variable% items... good to see it does, & that they can be controlled thus! I use that to remove device drivers!

(gmer antirootkit being the latest example in fact, to uninstall it so other AntiRootkit tools would work, since some complain if its driver is active (it usually isn't, but is a PnP type, activated on demand only))...

I find THIS particular feature of device manager VERY handy - it's GREAT if you use diff. hardware profiles, because you can make drivers active/inactive, based on the logon you use (say, a home logon or network logon for a laptop you may use in both places & if they have diff. networking types etc.)... apk

[ex_reven]

Eventvwr.msc is your pal: Use it - it may show what is what here, like some service going nuts trying to start, or device driver etc. et al, as well... clueing you into what is up here!

It may help... especially the SYSTEM & APPLICATIONS sections, based on what you're telling us here!

GOOD LUCK!

APK

P.S.=> Lazzer408, neat trick:

You've made my personal documents archive in that one... thanks, & good job!

I've always just used the menu from the photo you note, & didn't realize a DOS batch "SET" statement could do the job here, & I had NO IDEA this tool has environmental %variable% items... good to see it does, & that they can be controlled thus! I use that to remove device drivers!

(gmer antirootkit being the latest example in fact, to uninstall it so other AntiRootkit tools would work, since some complain if its driver is active (it usually isn't, but is a PnP type, activated on demand only))...

I find THIS particular feature of device manager VERY handy - it's GREAT if you use diff. hardware profiles, because you can make drivers active/inactive, based on the logon you use (say, a home logon or network logon for a laptop you may use in both places & if they have diff. networking types etc.)... apk

ok alec, no anger directed your way, i have absolutely no f--king idea how to use this

HOWEVER, just from taking a peek around i see directories labelled:
Application
Security
System
ACEEventLog

there are ZERO events in security, but in the three other directories there are literally
more than 2400 "Information" events in application about 2400 in the system directory.
Each of these events is no more than 2 seconds after the one that came before it.

The information on these comes from EAPOL...what is that supposed to be?

[Alec§taar]

ok alec, no anger directed your way, i have absolutely no f--king idea how to use this

HOWEVER, just from taking a peek around i see directories labelled:
Application
Security
System
ACEEventLog

there are ZERO events in security, but in the three other directories there are literally
more than 2400 "Information" events in application about 2400 in the system directory.
Each of these events is no more than 2 seconds after the one that came before it.

The information on these comes from EAPOL...what is that supposed to be?

You'll want to SORT the entries present: Sorry for my not mentioning that above, I really should have!

(Disregard the INFORMATION ones, but pay attention to the ERROR & WARNING ones!)

You sort them by clicking on the TYPE columns in the right-hand side pane, where the messages themselves are for the SYSTEM & APPLICATION categories, once you select & highlite them in the left-hand side pane that is!

Once they're sorted, scroll up & down thru them... see what they say!

(Security log section/tree item in left-hand side pane doesn't apply here anyhow, MOST LIKELY, & the ACEEventLog one? I have never seen that one before - probably some application specific one, like IE7 has in Windows Server 2003, & like IIS + other Server OS processes can & do have!)

TIP: What can help you here, is to highlite a particular eventlog, & CLEAR the log... reboot again, & it will be FAR LESS MESSAGES FOR YOU TO PARSE THRU!

* Good luck, but this SHOULD help you "zero-in" quite possibly, on the offending process here slowing up your bootup!

APK

P.S.=> Back to "Dr. Who" & the "Ark in Space" (Tom Baker as the good doctor) episode, & time to 'sign off' for tonite, for me... good nite all! apk

[ex_reven]

You'll want to SORT the entries present: Sorry for my not mentioning that above, I really should have!

(Disregard the INFORMATION ones, but pay attention to the ERROR & WARNING ones!)


I will try just that...thankyou and goodnight

[GLD]

Excuse me if I suggest something already mentioned in the thread. I was having real slow boot times with my system. I unchecked NCQ for my hdd(s) in the device manager and it solved my problem.

Also, your ide primary/secondary, master slave settings correct?

[ex_reven]

Excuse me if I suggest something already mentioned in the thread. I was having real slow boot times with my system. I unchecked NCQ for my hdd(s) in the device manager and it solved my problem.

Also, your ide primary/secondary, master slave settings correct?

i would have been concerned with the primary/master settings
but my DVD is the primary IDE, due to the fact that my hard drive is SATA

[GLD]

Your hdd support NCQ? Mine doesn't and so seemed to be my boot anchor.

[ex_reven]

Your hdd support NCQ? Mine doesn't and so seemed to be my boot anchor.

i cant see any option for NCQ in device manager, what is it exactly?

[Wile E]

& the ACEEventLog one? I have never seen that one before - probably some application specific one, like IE7 has in Windows Server 2003, & like IIS + other Server OS processes can & do have!)

iirc, ACEEventlog has to do with the ATI drivers

[GLD]

Native command queuing. Under your sata controller. Sorry, I said hdd earlier.

[Scavar]

Have you done something like Memtest, or a Diskcheck on all your HDDs? More importantly the one with XP on it.

My system completely boots up into perfect using in 40s or so. 22 programs up on boot. 23 as I type this, because of Opera :)

[ex_reven]

Native command queuing. Under your sata controller. Sorry, I said hdd earlier.

under the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers list i have:
Intel(R) ICH8 2 Port Sserial ATA storage controller - 2825
and
Intel(R) ICH8 4 Port Serial ATA storage controller - 2820

neither of them have anything like NCQ in their properties tabs

i also have 2 Primary IDE Channels and 2 Secondary IDE Channels
but they are irrelevant in this im guessing, since we are talking about SATA

[ex_reven]

Have you done something like Memtest, or a Diskcheck on all your HDDs? More importantly the one with XP on it.

My system completely boots up into perfect using in 40s or so. 22 programs up on boot. 23 as I type this, because of Opera :)

Cant run memtest, i dont have any boot mediums/floppy drives

[GLD]

In the SCSI and Raid controllers tree, in device manager. Is there a box somewhere to uncheck "enable command queuing"?

[ex_reven]

In the SCSI and Raid controllers tree, in device manager. Is there a box somewhere to uncheck "enable command queuing"?

the only object in that tree is:
jmicron jmb36x controller
which im pretty sure is a raid controller

[Wile E]

the only object in that tree is:
jmicron jmb36x controller
which im pretty sure is a raid controller
Are you running your sata controller in ide mode in the bios?

[ex_reven]

Are you running your sata controller in ide mode in the bios?

i dont have raid if thats what you need to know, but il check anyway

i thought that sata was plug and play just like IDE, and that you only needed to assign it a channel?

[Wile E]

I don't have raid either, but I set my bios to AHCI raid mode. By default, it treated the sata hd as an ide drive. Windows also recognized it as an IDE drive. Setting mine to AHCI improved performance for me, but you have to make sure you have your raid drivers installed. Interestingly enough, my sata drive now shows as a 0+1 JBOD raid in the device manager.

[ex_reven]

i would call these images interesting
the hard drive is set to IDE just as you said

also, whats that IDE detect timeout?

[GLD]

IDK, I would say just go through all of your device manager tree, if you see any thing about commang queuing, uncheck it. Good luck.

[Wile E]

Turn that IDE detect crap off. Also set your controller to AHCI if that's an option, RAID if not. Just make sure you have your controller drivers installed in XP first.

[ex_reven]

Turn that IDE detect crap off. Also set your controller to AHCI if that's an option, RAID if not. Just make sure you have your controller drivers installed in XP first.

do i need controller drivers for either of them? Or just for raid?

[Wile E]

Either. All you have to make sure of is that you installed your chipset drivers, basically.

[ex_reven]

it didnt boot on either setting
bsod

probably due to drivers as per my luck, which should be installed because i used a full install when i first used my motherboard cd

...im gonna try alecstars method and see if i can find the source of the error

if that doesnt work, il reinstall the drivers and try again with the raid/ahci setting

...also, when i boot i noticed my ram says its pc5300 and not 6400...wtf? would that be a result of overclocking? i dont see how the bandwidth would go down due to ocing though...

man this is frustrating

[ex_reven]

btw thanks for all the help so far Wile E...your always quite dependable man
:toast:

[ex_reven]

gentlemen i believe I have solved my own problem :D!

Ill let ya know what it was when you wake up :)

[Lazzer408]

I forgot to mention... Clear the prefetch. That sometimes helps. Delete everything in \Windows\Prefetch

[Alec§taar]

...im gonna try alecstars method and see if i can find the source of the error

Did browsing thru the EVENT LOGS for ERROR & WARNING messages help you "zero-in" on the 'offending culprit'?

:)

gentlemen i believe I have solved my own problem :D!

What was the one that was causing the mess??

APK

[ex_reven]

Did browsing thru the EVENT LOGS for ERROR & WARNING messages help you "zero-in" on the 'offending culprit'?

:)

What was the one that was causing the mess??

APK

I cleared the event logs and found two errors labelled:
The device, \Device\Scsi\JRAID1, did not respond within the timeout period.

i disregarded this and looked back to the root cause.

Alecstar you probably remember reccomending me to change my settings on my DVD drive to PIO in a previous thread when i said i was encountering a I/O Error when i tried using disks?

While the PIO setting worked, my system encountered problems (the lag issue).
I dunno why, but when the dvd drive is hooked up it lags the system, and while its set to PIO it works but it lags. Disconnecting the drive is the only thing thats fixing the problem.

So ive confirmed that its the dvd drive itself causing the problems, rather than the PIO setting. Maybe i need a new drive :ohwell:

[Wile E]

btw thanks for all the help so far Wile E...your always quite dependable man
:toast:Thanx reven, it's no problem. When it comes time for a reinstall, you should set up your drive as AHCI in the BIOS, and either use the F6 method to load your Raid drivers during XP setup, or use nLite to build a custom install cd with your raid drivers integrated. You'll probably see a slight performance increase, until then, I wouldn't worry too much. In the meantime, perhaps the new DVD drive isn't such a bad idea. lol

[Alec§taar]

I cleared the event logs and found two errors labelled:
The device, \Device\Scsi\JRAID1, did not respond within the timeout period.

i disregarded this and looked back to the root cause.

The EventLog showed you what you needed, to see, yes?

(Gotta watch it w/ SCSI related messages in NT-based OS, because the HAL 'strains them out' as ScSi ("Sexy", lol, NOT Scuzzy) - EVEN IDE/EIDE/SATA... don't let this b.s. throw you, it's just abstractions & filtering driver b.s.)...

Alecstar you probably remember reccomending me to change my settings on my DVD drive to PIO in a previous thread when i said i was encountering a I/O Error when i tried using disks?

Eh, actually, I don't... got a URL, showing that? Because "straight-up" I don't & I'd recall recommending PIO... fact is, I most likely NEVER would, not w/ today's stuff, especially IF you could dedicate 1 device, to IDE/EIDE (which today, imo @ least, is optical disk readers (i.e.-> Cd-Roms/Dvd etc. you know what i mean - too long of a list!)) IF it's designed to handle more than PIO!

If I did? Man... it'd be a "LAST DITCH RESORT"... the hotel I don't want to vacation in, lol!

Honestly on that note... I think you have the wrong guy you're crediting, to be "100% straight up"... I won't take credit, where it's NOT due me, you know??

Personally - I am INTO separating all I/O tasks on ANY kind of disk onto its own separate circuit... even to the point of SSD, especially "only running 512mb of RAM" here... it works for a good deal of stuff, but I separate cables, & NO SLAVES, even w/ today's moderm mobos!

While the PIO setting worked, my system encountered problems (the lag issue).I dunno why, but when the dvd drive is hooked up it lags the system, and while its set to PIO it works but it lags. Disconnecting the drive is the only thing thats fixing the problem.

Put it on its OWN cable... can you DO this? Dedicate the bus it's designed for, to itself... I do this, mainly because I want it to have 1 interrupt to the CPU, as far as optical disks (they are DOG SLOW, by comparison to today's HDD's, any kind, & YOU KNOW THIS, right?)

Put that thing on its own circuit... test it then.

So ive confirmed that its the dvd drive itself causing the problems, rather than the PIO setting. Maybe i need a new drive :ohwell:

Well, glad to have helped, because again?

The EventLog often will tell you, what the heck is up, w/ a LOT of things.. but, this is just something you do, after "all else hardware, fails" because @ certain points, you start realizing something:

THE MACHINE... it's useless, w/ out a GOOD "Ghost in the Machine"...

:)

* IMPORTANT: @ THIS POINT? I would seriously look @ the driverset applied, & IF there is a chipset specific IDE driver (ASUS has this, VIA has this - do you fall under they? IF so... apply THEIR latest to your chipset... it may solve it).

Kid you not... GOOD LUCK!

EDIT PART - IF you have to? UNINSTALL THE S.O.B in devmgmt.msc, reboot, & reinstall, & do use chipset specific drivers (if not before the reboot)...

Why?

Heck -PnP!

Sometimes, it will 'unbury' you, just via simple burn & reinstall, but if you have a chipset specific driverset, especially imo, ASUS &/or VIA - apply them, for burners & optical disks in general... via their IDE/EIDE specific stuff, should this apply to you (I have admittedly NOT read your hardware specs man - sorry)

APK

P.S.=> For what it's worth? IMO, you're looking POSSIBLY @ a Windows Update "burning" a working driver, that is chipset specific, w/ some "Windows Update WHQL stuff" which is stable yes, but many times ONLY PARTIALLY FUNCTIONAL... so, do reapply ANY chipset specific IDE/EIDE drivers... can't hurt, right?

IMO, a chipset specific driver for IDE/EIDE application (or, reapplication, w/ most updated BIOS, hassle - I KNOW!)? Will help, if NOT fix it...

Humor me? Try it... I have this feeling that if you do this? Yea, You'll be cool.... anyhow, later & GOOD luck... apk