Sapphire x1950pro ALL U NEED TO KNOW!

[slugzkea]

I have spent many weeks studying and addressing issues reguarding the AGP VERSION of the Sapphire x1950pro 512mb.
So here it is:

Cooling:
The stock heat sink and fan does not cool anything. There is maybe 15% copper out of the whole thing thus, barely any heat transfer. The memory is not cooled at all, due to ram heat pads with a plastic sheet over them. At stock, and fan going at 100%, this cards heats up to 73 C. This would most likely kill your card within 2 years.
Solution: RMA this product because removing the default heat sink and fan voids warranty. OR you can purchase The AC Accelero X2 is very cheap, and out performs pretty much all VGA coolers. It also cools the memory, and is very silent. At load, i have not found my card to breach 48C. There are a few down faults though. For one, the fan does not blow out of the case (like the silencer 4's did), and the fan sticks out quite a bit. If you have a side fan connected to your side panel, it will not fit due to this cooler.

Power: This card requires massive power. At least a 520w PSU with 30a on the +12v. And yes, this card requires both power connectors, no matter what the flimsy sapphire manual says.

Rebooting No Post Problem:
People have been stating that it is an overheating issue. Well, yes, particially. You can hear the fan spin at 100% during reboot, which means the card heats up at initial post. However, when i purchased the AC Accelero X2, this did not solve the problem. I have discovered that the default voltage for this card is 1.3v. The default voltage for the AGP Slot on all motherboards is 1.5v
This card is underpowered.

Solution: Power. Increase voltage on the +12v line if your PSU has that option. Mine is at 12.88v

Bios Flashing: No point. There is no voltage table on these cards.

Drivers: Use catalyst 7.2 without control centre. Then download the latest beta version of ATI tools. currently, the 7.2 officials are faster than the omega 7.1's

Overclocking: Good luck! Core, i got to about 611 stable with mem at 750mhz.

750mhz? yes. That is the default frequency of the RAM. How do i know?

the exact print on the RAM chips are:
Qimonde 0638
HYB18H512321AF-13
HVV52109

Infineon (owns Qimonde) refuses to release a data sheet on this particular model. But i have found out through searching on other forums, that the default ms is 1.3 and the default frequency is 750mhz as stated with the 7800GT models. Everybody has stated that a 27mhz incriment increase is required to overclock the memory. And this is true, but if you set it to 750 dead on, it will work.

Final solution: Quite honestly, for the name that has been given this card (x1950 family), i am disapointed at the performance of this card.

Accept that it is a mid-range card, or RMA.


Oh and last but no least, DISABLE FAST WRITE!!!! i gain 10-25fps (depending on the game) doing so!

[Zubasa]

I cannot agree with you on the cooler part.
My core does not get pass 70C and the memory is indeed cooled.
By saying nothing is cooled, do you know what temperature the card gets to without the cooler?

And about overclocking the card, every card is different.
You get your card to 611/750Mhz
But I got mine to 621/800Mhz stable. So I guess you are just not so lucky with your card.

[slugzkea]

I cannot agree with you on the cooler part.
My core does not get pass 70C and the memory is indeed cooled.
By saying nothing is cooled, do you know what temperature the card gets to without the cooler?

is yours AGP?

[Zubasa]

is yours AGP?
Mine is a PCI-E with the exact same cooler.
So thats why I only question you on the Cooler.
Not sure about the PCI-E to AGP chip affects OC at all.

[slugzkea]

Mine is a PCI-E with the exact same cooler.
So thats why I only question you on the Cooler.

This thread is dedicated to the AGP version.

My mistake for not putting that in the title.

everybody on the sapphrie forums are getting the 70 c's with the AGP version.

[Zubasa]

This thread is dedicated to the AGP version.

My mistake for not putting that in the title.

everybody on the sapphrie forums are getting the 70 c's with the AGP version.
I think that have to do with the raitlo chip, it output considerable amount of heat as I recall.
About the temperature, the airflow makes a big difference. (Yes I get to 73C if I turn down the case fan.)

[slugzkea]

I think that have to do with the raitlo chip, it output considerable amount of heat as I recall.
About the temperature, the airflow makes a big difference. (Yes I get to 73C if I turn down the case fan.)

I guess so, however my case is very cool hell my hands are freezing right now as i'm typing and i must say from my experience, it was a power issue :)

[slugzkea]

I cannot agree with you on the cooler part.
My core does not get pass 70C and the memory is indeed cooled.
By saying nothing is cooled, do you know what temperature the card gets to without the cooler?

And about overclocking the card, every card is different.
You get your card to 611/750Mhz
But I got mine to 621/800Mhz stable. So I guess you are just not so lucky with your card.

What model are your GFX ram chips? do you know?

I found out mine, which is why i know as a fact the default frequency is 750mhz, and is also why it will not increase past that due to no voltage table.

Once again, THIS IS FOR THE AGP!! AGP!! AGP VERSION!!!!!

[Kammster]

Power: This card requires massive power. At least a 520w PSU with 30a on the +12v. And yes, this card requires both power connectors, no matter what the flimsy sapphire manual says.

Rebooting No Post Problem:
People have been stating that it is an overheating issue. Well, yes, particially. You can hear the fan spin at 100% during reboot, which means the card heats up at initial post. However, when i purchased the AC Accelero X2, this did not solve the problem. I have discovered that the default voltage for this card is 1.3v. The default voltage for the AGP Slot on all motherboards is 1.5v
This card is underpowered.

Solution: Power. Increase voltage on the +12v line if your PSU has that option. Mine is at 12.88v




there is a thread in the sapphire forums about the restart "problem" and it was concluded to be a defect in the power circutry , a capacitor or something the card wouldn't "warm boot", u would have to shut off the computer and wait.
most people RMA their card and got the 256mb ultimate version, or a later revision(i think).

are u sure u won't damage the drives with that 12.88 v
sapphire seems to have problems with the voltage on their pcie chips on agp!

[slugzkea]

there is a thread in the sapphire forums about the restart "problem" and it was concluded to be a defect in the power circutry , a capacitor or something the card wouldn't "warm boot", u would have to shut off the computer and wait.
most people RMA their card and got the 256mb ultimate version, or a later revision(i think).

are u sure u won't damage the drives with that 12.88 v
sapphire seems to have problems with the voltage on their pcie chips on agp!

So far, so good.

Temps are very low, and i have overvolt indication/protection on my PSU (OCZ powerstream 520w).

I have not had the no post problem ever since.

I do not believe there is an ultimate version for AGP, which is why I am encouraging everybody to RMA the AGP version.

[dashsmashed]

i have the agp sapphire running at 631/749 - can't get it stable any higher...

this is stable but if I have the secondary display (a standard tv) running in the background it exhibits the same problems as i do if i o/c any higher on the gpu.. runs for a few mins then the display drivers either crash or my monitor and tv loose their signal...

I have added an X2 and vr cooler btw...

becasue it runs for a while i'm wondering if its still a heat issue but in an area not sensored? very tempted to stick my 12" desk fan under the desk on full power to see if it makes any difference...

[slugzkea]

i have the agp sapphire running at 631/749 - can't get it stable any higher...

this is stable but if I have the secondary display (a standard tv) running in the background it exhibits the same problems as i do if i o/c any higher on the gpu.. runs for a few mins then the display drivers either crash or my monitor and tv loose their signal...

I have added an X2 and vr cooler btw...

becasue it runs for a while i'm wondering if its still a heat issue but in an area not sensored? very tempted to stick my 12" desk fan under the desk on full power to see if it makes any difference...

I don't think your core is stable man. I thought my core was stable at those speeds as well, then i tested all games and 3dmark06 and everything ran stable however, COD2 did not.

COD2 is what determined what core speed was stable at 749mhz and it was 610-611mhz.

[Steevo]

My X1800 runs up to 100% fan during post. It isn't from heat, it is a simple protection for the card. If the PC reboots from a graphic card fault of overheating, for any reason, it allos the card to quickly cool itself before the thermal diode comes online to start the temperature monitoring.


So if you have a card that is clogged with dust and pet hair, and the system reboots or is rebooted, instead of the fan NOT spinning and the card staying too hot, it at least moves SOME air to cool the card. So in a worst case scenario, the card is saved, before the temperature is read.

[dashsmashed]

I don't think your core is stable man. I thought my core was stable at those speeds as well, then i tested all games and 3dmark06 and everything ran stable however, COD2 did not.

COD2 is what determined what core speed was stable at 749mhz and it was 610-611mhz.

COD2 is running fine on my machine at this speed... everything max @ 1440x900 25-30fps - I tried a few different levels just to be sure... oblivion fine maxed same res fps jumps around from 24-60 FEAR runs well but somewhere between max/med.. same for COH..

actually I couldnt get the memory to budge from stock until I read your post.. cheers dude ! :toast:

[Ketxxx]

AGP voltage is not directly linked to the VGPU voltage of the card. However, increaseing AGP voltage can result in a cleaner signal.

[slugzkea]

COD2 is running fine on my machine at this speed... everything max @ 1440x900 25-30fps - I tried a few different levels just to be sure... oblivion fine maxed same res fps jumps around from 24-60 FEAR runs well but somewhere between max/med.. same for COH..

actually I couldnt get the memory to budge from stock until I read your post.. cheers dude ! :toast:

Congrats! hehe:toast:

[newtekie1]

73C isn't going to kill a card in 2 years, it is very unlikely, and if the card does die, it won't be from the heat.

Even if there was a chance that the card would die after 2 years from the heat, I think that would just be a sign that it is time to upgrade. I would hope no one is using AGP seriously 2 years from now.

[tkpenalty]

Um, slugzkea, the X1950PRO AGPs with crap coolers only existed in the first batch of them. Which is what your probably have. Remember to heatsink the VRMs if you plan on changing to another Cooler, check my database thread for details.

[Zubasa]

Um, slugzkea, the X1950PRO AGPs with crap coolers only existed in the first batch of them. Which is what your probably have. Remember to heatsink the VRMs if you plan on changing to another Cooler, check my database thread for details.
The first batch also has a crappy bios that put fan speed at 45% at 70C.

[slugzkea]

Um, slugzkea, the X1950PRO AGPs with crap coolers only existed in the first batch of them. Which is what your probably have. Remember to heatsink the VRMs if you plan on changing to another Cooler, check my database thread for details.

So what did the new batch of the x1950pro AGP come with? any pics of the new heat sink and fan?

From my past purchases, none of their cards came with good coolers...

[dashsmashed]

AGP voltage is not directly linked to the VGPU voltage of the card. However, increaseing AGP voltage can result in a cleaner signal.

is this safe to do? is it something other folks have benefited from?

[Completely Bonkers]

Good tip from tk. Change the cooler. The Zalman and X2 are the winners. Check out the reviews and benchmarks. Zalman is better if you have good case cooling already. X2 is better if case cooling is poor.

[Completely Bonkers]

If you have AGP X1950Pro, GS or XT, please visit http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=25369, vote and comment. AGP ONLY!

[Ling-ling]

Zalman is better if you have good case cooling already. X2 is better if case cooling is poor.

Crap, I seriously doubt it. They both circulate the air inside. The Zalman vf900 is better for cooling the GPU, while the X2 cools the ram a little better than the vf900.

[slugzkea]

Crap, I seriously doubt it. They both circulate the air inside. The Zalman vf900 is better for cooling the GPU, while the X2 cools the ram a little better than the vf900.

Depending on how the core is pasted, and what thermal paste you use can really effect the overall results of each cooler.

The real breakdown is this:

the X2 has 3 heatpipes, which cools memory and GPU however the whole device is very big, bulky and is not 100% copper.

the zalman has two heatpipes but the entire cooler is 100% copper, thus maximum heat transfer and disperation.

[Zubasa]

Depending on how the core is pasted, and what thermal paste you use can really effect the overall results of each cooler.

The real breakdown is this:

the X2 has 3 heatpipes, which cools memory and GPU however the whole device is very big, bulky and is not 100% copper.

the zalman only has one heatpipe but the entire cooler is 100% copper, thus maximum heat transfer and disperation.
The Zalman has 2 Heat Pipes:shadedshu

[Zalmann]

The Zalman has 2 Heat Pipes:shadedshu

You are 100% correct my man! ;)

[slugzkea]

So what did the new batch of the x1950pro AGP come with? any pics of the new heat sink and fan?

From my past purchases, none of their cards came with good coolers...

bump

[Eric_Cartman]

So what did the new batch of the x1950pro AGP come with? any pics of the new heat sink and fan?

From my past purchases, none of their cards came with good coolers...

below are pics of the old reference design, and the new

[Formula350]

AGP or PCIe, it still uses the same chip, and the same core voltage, with the same clocks and the same heatsink! At 100% fan duty mine ran 60c. I was surprised to see they(Sapphire, who makes my card as well) dont remove the plastic over the ram-pads. I was able to get HIS to send me their 1950 Pro's cooler (not telling you how, sorry lol Devise your own plan heh) and now I run 48-50c max load. But yes the stock heatsink is junk, get something else.

There IS a voltage table, just look in Ketxxx's 1950 thread. While I'm not using any of His BIOS' atm since I'm CPU limited I think, my core's max stable is 648 and memory is 864 (yes, 864). Just using the HIS Heatsink and memory-sink. All copper, very nice. <3 HIS (Had a x1600XT form them)

[slugzkea]

AGP or PCIe, it still uses the same chip, and the same core voltage, with the same clocks and the same heatsink! At 100% fan duty mine ran 60c. I was surprised to see they(Sapphire, who makes my card as well) dont remove the plastic over the ram-pads. I was able to get HIS to send me their 1950 Pro's cooler (not telling you how, sorry lol Devise your own plan heh) and now I run 48-50c max load. But yes the stock heatsink is junk, get something else.

There IS a voltage table, just look in Ketxxx's 1950 thread. While I'm not using any of His BIOS' atm since I'm CPU limited I think, my core's max stable is 648 and memory is 864 (yes, 864). Just using the HIS Heatsink and memory-sink. All copper, very nice. <3 HIS (Had a x1600XT form them)

There is no voltage table for the AGP Version from my knowledge. I have tried many bios's, i have edited my bios a bunch of times and up to 1.55v and I've had no increase in core clocks, mem clocks, or temperatures.

[slugzkea]

below are pics of the old reference design, and the new

The new heatsink and fan is from Visiontek. Not sapphire, you said Sapphire released a new batch..?

[Formula350]

The PCIe version can't be modded for AGP? Cuz I know Ket has bumped the core voltage up to 1.45 on ours.

And adding voltage does not guarantee more overclock potential. Most of the time it increases stability.

[slugzkea]

The PCIe version can't be modded for AGP? Cuz I know Ket has bumped the core voltage up to 1.45 on ours.

And adding voltage does not guarantee more overclock potential. Most of the time it increases stability.

Yes, however my case is an Antec Nine Hundred w/4 120mmfans giving 79CFM each, and one big 200mm fan at the top, doing 130CFM as well.

Not to mention, I have the Accelero X2 w/AS5 (i did not use the pre-applied wannabe paste that came with it).

Heat is what would usually cause the instability, and that is not the issue i don't believe.

My GPU idle is at 34 and at load it does not exceed 50 C.
Mem is even lower, around 32 and does not exceed 36 C.

When i increased the BIOS voltage to 1.55v (and my motherboard to 1.57v) the temps did not change at all, where with my x800GTO, if I set the Voltage higher on that, well..you could obviously see temperature increase.

The absence of temperature increase prooves there is no voltage table.

[mmx]

I cannot agree with you on the cooler part.
My core does not get pass 70C and the memory is indeed cooled.
By saying nothing is cooled, do you know what temperature the card gets to without the cooler?

I totaly agree with you, i can say that the cooler isnt the best money can buy but it does a decent job at cooling the card.
And the boot up cooler spining at 100% is NOT becouse core is heating up is becouse VGA card self test at pover up.

[Formula350]

Well you have all those fans, and I don't, and my Sapphire runs 37c idle and 48-50c load, and I used the crappy thermal paste that came on my HIS IceQ Turbo heatsink I acquired lol Makes me really want to go put on my AS3 and lap the heatsink heh

[munz778]

slugskea/formula350: does "under load" mean under gaming or atitool artifact scanning?

when i run ATItool & "scan for artifacts", my temps are just under 60C (room temp ~23C) for my powercolor x1950 pro AGP 512MB w/accelero X2 (573.75/1377) (http://www.powercolor.com/global/main_product_detail.asp?id=159)

my case is well ventilated so i'm not sure how you guys managed to get such low temps.

[Formula350]

Gaming or ATiTool/ATi Tray Tools little render window, it doesn't matter. Both heat mine up the same. These are @ 635/1600 too. Yours cools the memory as well, which will heat up the GPU cooler a bit more. Mine uses a separate finned copper plate.

[munz778]

thanks for the info, i've been having problems with mine, which prompted me to reinstall vista with cat 7.2 and i still get artifacts within 10 mins in atitool at stock speeds, temps don't exceed 60C. i can still overclock but what's the point when i can't get it to run without errors at stock? agp voltage is set at 1.5v in bios, and i'm using the PCI-E power cable from my powerstream to power the card (a mod on the OCZ forum recommended i use the PCI-E power cable from the PSU instead of using the dual molex-->pci-e converter)

IMHO, 60C is totally acceptable if others with stock cooling are getting 70C+ and also overclocking...any suggestions?

[Eric_Cartman]

The new heatsink and fan is from Visiontek. Not sapphire, you said Sapphire released a new batch..?

the same cooler is used on the straight ati branded cards now also, see below

i assume ati would be using their own reference cooler design

the visiontech one was just the first one i saw, so that is what i posted

i never said anything about sapphire, even though sapphire makes the ati branded cards as far as i know

you just asked what the new reference design looked like, sapphire might still be using the old one on their cards to save money since i am sure the old aluminum one is cheaper than this new copper one

[eitama]

Mine is a PCI-E with the exact same cooler.
So thats why I only question you on the Cooler.
Not sure about the PCI-E to AGP chip affects OC at all.

Just to backup slugzkea, the stock cooler doesn't cool anything.
i have pci-e version, with a really good thermaltake case, cpu is at 32Degree
I got to 103 Degree Celcious!!!! on crysis beta demo. atitool set fan to 100%
and no overclocking, in mid configuration.
Most games get my card to 85 Degree.

I am about to install the accelero before my card fries itself.
RMA in israel, arn't a simple proccess.

[mmx]

Just to backup slugzkea, the stock cooler doesn't cool anything.
i have pci-e version, with a really good thermaltake case, cpu is at 32Degree
I got to 103 Degree Celcious!!!! on crysis beta demo. atitool set fan to 100%
and no overclocking, in mid configuration.
Most games get my card to 85 Degree.

I am about to install the accelero before my card fries itself.
RMA in israel, arn't a simple proccess.
if your card runs 100C up . remove heatsink and replace thermalpase. My card was running at 82C max when i bought it, but after a few months it runs near 95C, then i replced thermalpaste and it runs again at 82C max. That thermalpase ist quite bad quality.

[Howcomes]

I've owned a Sapphire X1950 Pro AGP for awhile now, It still runs way too hot. I've modified the card slightly, took off the big blue plastic shield on the heatsink, re-applied the thermal paste and stuck a PCI Expansion cooler directly parallel to the card.

...And i still get mid 70's under load...if not worse. Thou my room tempature may be an issue as well :P

[thegave]

Can any Sapphire X1950Pro AGP owners please tell me how many capacitators there should be on the front and back of the card? I found a cap that looks the ones on the card but I can't work out where it might have been and I don'tk now if I'm damaging my card by continuing to use it.