tec mod

[freeboy]

Anybody ever evan heard of this? I was thinking of all the ways to screw with "water" systems, building a prototype in my mind, and the issue is always ambient air temp as your pull down to figure, as you cannot get lower without additional cooling beyond a traditioanal radioator setup. clear os far? Below is my proposition:

Could I do a Peltier sandwiched between two waterblocks? one in a cold loop running to a pump and the cpu? and a hot loop running to a traditionmal radiator settup to cool off "dump" the thermal energy from the overheated pelt side waterblock? each would be closed loop with pump and resevior. I kind of like it, no doubt a special anti freaze coolant like mct 40 would be needed?if over cooling of fluid was an issue we could increase the plaiting to the waterblock lowering the cooling ?
thoughts?

I know it is simpler to add the pelt directly, justthinking outside the case so to speeak, Would love some critical imput! this actually is VERY cost effective done from scratch.

[ktr]

http://home.comcast.net/~kohan/TEC.GIF

the key thing about tec-ing is insulation, so that you do not build up frost. The peltier should not have any contact with air.

As for that sandwich idea, it wont work well. Pelt work well in extreme cases, so you need extreme temps to get the best out of it.

[DanTheBanjoman]

Of course, it's the way water cooling works already. Water doesn't cool, it moves energy to the radiator so fans can take care of it there. Basically what you want is to replace the fans by peltiers, should work great. You won't need 2 loops though.

[freeboy]

ok, if I only used one loop, where would the hot go.... back to the res?
Kind athrew me on that one, if I have a hot and a cold pelt side.. with an in and an out block attacked to each that is four.. two in two out ues ?

So, I could loop the hot out from the cpu block ,(5,6 input output counting the hoses) back to a res.. and I could run that to the very hot pelt to the cold pelt? how hot can my tubing go? CAR RADIATOR? ouch..
ok so I am running one loop, with a huge 900 gallon per minute pump sold at Frozen for under 100.00 a cheap resevior, three blocks, one one the cpu and two sandwhiching the pelt. REMEMBER this is theoretical..
Seems I would have some heating from ambeint outside of tube to colder inside? all for cost of Pelt, three blocks and a pump.. add tubing and resevior.

[demonbrawn]

Think you could draw a full diagram? I'm a very visual person...

[freeboy]

ok, I thought origonally two loops, this would be a single loop:

[freeboy]

ok lets try this again ok not liking my uploads? wtf? gif simple diagram???
ok, so how does on upload, it found the file fine I hit upload???

[FR@NK]

I think Dan was meaning if you use 1 water loop to connect the CPU block to the pelts then use a heatsink to cool the pelts. That setup would work fine if you make sure the pelts can remove more heat then the CPU is giving off. Although it wouldn't be that effective because lets say you get the water in the loop cooler then the ambient air temp(or really the air temp around the loop since the air will be warmer in the case then the ambient air temp outside) you would loose some cooling effect due to ambient air warming the hoses and pump itself.

I have been using a pelt/water cooling system for years now and i cant say that I recommend it; you're better off getting a good heatsink and investing the rest of the cash you would be spending on a water system into higher end hardware. But if you enjoy messing around with it then its alota fun. I must have spent $1000 on parts on my cooling system and most of them I dont even use anymore. Like for example I spent alot on a dual 120mm fan radiator but now I just use a cheap heater core I got from the autopart store.

But once you have a good setup it can be cheaply upgraded to newer hardware as you upgrade your system.

[freeboy]

ok lets word diagram:
Resevoir to pump.... hot still to heatsink attached to cold side of pelt, cold liquid now flows to heatsink on cpu , hot exits to heatsink, then pulling off the hot therms from the pelt, back to the resevior.
That was nicely diagramed but cannot get it to upload

In a two loop system, one loop runs the cold side pelt in and out of the CPU.. the second is to cool the Pelt and uses whatever it takes, a radiator perhaps. each loop needs a resevior and a pump, in the two loop system.

as an aside
I was wowed by the 960 GPH or so pump I saw for under 100.00

Understand about the temp increase during fluid movment pelt to cpu, unavoidable... same when folks run tubes or resevior in "tub" of ice.. etc

[FR@NK]

ok lets word diagram:
Resevoir to pump.... hot still to heatsink attached to cold side of pelt, cold liquid now flows to heatsink on cpu , hot exits to heatsink, then pulling off the hot therms from the pelt, back to the resevior.
That was nicely diagramed but cannot get it to upload

First of all the pelt will add more heat then it cools, so it may cool 200 watts of heat but gives off on the hotside 300 watts. So you would be adding more heat to your loop over time.

In a two loop system, one loop runs the cold side pelt in and out of the CPU.. the second is to cool the Pelt and uses whatever it takes, a radiator perhaps. each loop needs a resevior and a pump, in the two loop system.


Why not just put the pelt under the waterblock thats on the cpu? anything thats cooler then the air temp around it will form condensation on it. You need you need to make sure its insulated very well or else you might damage something; I've killed afew motherboards before and damaged some PCI slots :(

as an aside
I was wowed by the 960 GPH or so pump I saw for under 100.00

I recommend the danger den D4 or D5 pump; its about 80 bucks and works great.

Also, why use a reservoir if you dont really need too? If you use one on the cooler loop it would end up heating the loop temp if the air around it was warmer then water temp.

Heres my custom system:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4913/casezg5.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=casezg5.jpg)

I get around 10C under full load on the CPU thats under the pelt and the GPU hits around 50C without pelt.

[prime95]

Just wondering here... look at this stupid image i drew... would a self conatained TEC system work? (i forgot to include pump but w/e you get it... hopefully :P)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9201/selfcontainedcq0.jpg

Thoughts on something like this actually working?!

[freeboy]

could you add some arrows, I got lost in the diagram looks interesting

[prime95]

yeah, added flow arrows.

[freeboy]

ok, I was lost on the GPU side, intersting feedback loop idea to cool the tec.. I wonder how you would regulate the flow direction?

[freeboy]

how do I get my diagram up>? Viagra? oh no now that was bad

[prime95]

wouldnt need to regulate flow, it works out - in theory - it would be fun try something like this with weak TEC units just to see how they perform... but alas, i have neither the means or money.

host it via tpu or imageshack.us

[freeboy]

well you have a flow that runs a loop to itselt at the gpu, first it splits then the other side loops back.. does that make sense? anyway weems you would get come back pressure and my need a small regulator or pump

[FR@NK]

Pelts give off heat.....you need to read about how they work.

The hot side gives off more heat then the cool side can cool due to the power being used my the peltier. Over time in your setup the CPU and GPU would end up cooling the heat from the water.

[prime95]

No, it doesnt loop back after the gpu, its just i didnt draw the y coming to gether well.. but yeah, i would gess you might need something to to stop backpressure when you have the y join two currents rather than split... maybe a simple one way valve? although, i don't think there would be that much backpressure... remember this is a drawing, not the exact orientation of the fittings :P

Pelts give off heat.....you need to read about how they work.

The hot side gives off more heat then the cool side can cool due to the power being used my the peltier. Over time in your setup the CPU and GPU would end up cooling the heat from the water.

interesting.

[FR@NK]

Instead of connecting the hot side to the water loop you could put a heatsink on it. Although you would have to make sure it could handle the heat load or the pelt would end up heating the system from heat moving back from the hotside into the loop.

[freeboy]

If the goal is to get the cpu thermal differntial, ie the change in degrees from the heat release from the cpu to the cooled side, the only advantage a water system would have is the flow... if I could pump -10c at 900 gph omg that would be a lot of watts(heat) pulled off the core.

[FR@NK]

If the goal is to get the cpu thermal differntial, ie the change in degrees from the heat release from the cpu to the cooled side, the only advantage a water system would have is the flow... if I could pump -10c at 900 gph omg that would be a lot of watts(heat) pulled off the core.

no...a pelt -10C on top of the core would be better then water at -10C, if you had -10C fluid flowing through your loop ice would form on the hoses lol and you would have tons of heat bleeding into the system from the hoses and pump. Trying to get the fluid that cold is pointless and very inefficient. Also, just because a pump is rated at 900GPH doesnt mean your flow rate will be that high, it all depends on the resistance of the hoses and waterblocks and any distance the water moves up and down within the system.

I believe the danger den D5 is rated at 5GPM but really only gets 2 or so when connected to a cooling system.

[freeboy]

so really this is an exercise in futility , the best course being the direct application of pelt to the cpu.. I was simply looking at a typical water system and thought, gee wiz this could work, and it COULD, just not very effectively or efficiently

[bigboi86]

http://www.bytesizedreviews.com/index.php?art_id=5&page=4&action=articles

This is pretty much the best way. Just don't run your GPU in the same loop as that peltier.

[freeboy]

ok, I have a second power supply but cannot find the wiring info I found previously, ie I am ok with the manual method of on off, but how do I pin it? I e is I just plug it into the wall and run the 12 volt to the tec it will nnot turn on without "pinning" the 24 pin mobo connector? help!

[FR@NK]

just google "atx connector" under images

if i remember correctly its the green wire that gets grounded to turn on the psu

[russianboy]

^^Black to green.

[freeboy]

Pin black t ogreen I get, WTF is " under images?" where? what how doh.. empty circle over my head??

[FR@NK]

http://images.google.com/

[freeboy]

I did search atx seems I need to pin green to black no?

[russianboy]

yup, ground to black. Any will do.

[Oliver_FF]

don't forget that with every peltier your using - whilst one side gets cooler and one side gets hotter, the hotter side gets EVEN hotter due to the power draw of the pelter...

eg. if you've got a processor giving out 50w of heat and you stick a 100w tec on it, you'll need to remove 150w of heat from the hot side of the tec to keep it cool!