X800 vs X1650 vs X1300 AGP

[Pinchy]

Plain and simple; whats a better card?

EDIT - added 7600

BUT - in relation to:

a) Performance
b) Power consumption
c) Size
d) Price

I would get an X1950 PRO, but it simply wont fit into my case. The 7800GS AGP is too expensive as well. The comp currently has an X800 PRO flashed to XT PE.

Does the X1650XT/PRO/X300XT take more or less power than the X800XT PE, and are they smaller or larger?

The X800XT PE fits pretty well, but with the Arctic cooler on, it JUST fits. Its a barebones case btw.

With the AC, i couldnt put the card in straight away...i had to de-attach the AC, put the card in, then put the AC in while the card was in the AGP slot (yeah very akward :p)...and trust me, it JUST fit (i had to sqeeze it in). So as you can see, size is an issue.

In regards to power, im using a 200W PSU with 10A on the 12V rail...so im not gonna risk anything that sucks up more power than an X800XT PE. (Although the X800 works fine, even overclocked)


Thanks in advanced :D

[Pinchy]

Oh and by the way, in regards to performance...just SM2.0 performance, i know the x1k will kill the X800 in SM3.0

[tkpenalty]

X1650XT>X800 in everything

EDIT: Show me pics of your case, X1650XT ftw (and that guy who called me a fanboi GTFO).

[Pinchy]

How come i read going from an X800 to an X1650 is a downgrade :p?

And do you mean the X1650XT takes more power, is larger and more expensive, or vice versa?

[rhythmeister]

The x1650 xt is more powerful and efficient than the x800 series AND it doesn't even need an external power connector! It's get the RV560 core as well, compared to the X1650 pro's RV530 so MUCH better option. I can't fit anything longer than this card in my case and don't wanna start chopping the drive caddy up to fit in an X1800/ X19*0 just yet...

[Pinchy]

So how big is it in relation to the X800's?

With power, we are talking about the AGP arent we?

Also, how is it against the X800 in SM2.0?

[rhythmeister]

Hmmm, hard to give definite answers for those questions! Google for power requirements. AGP power requirement may be slightly higher due to use of the Rialto bridge chip but if yr using the 600W psu in yr case u have nothing to fear :D I'm not sure on SM2 performance but I never have trouble running UT2004/ Q4/ Doom3/ R.O.E./ Far cry/ valve source offerings on pretty much max settings. I think the X800 may have a 256 bit mem' bus and the x1650xt has 128 bit but that's about the only downside.

[tkpenalty]

So how big is it in relation to the X800's?

With power, we are talking about the AGP arent we?

Also, how is it against the X800 in SM2.0?

Same size. Its better than the X800 in SM2.0. Correct me if I'm wrong. Now do I have to stress that bus bandwidth does not always equal performance? The thing is about this card, it doesnt need an external power source like the X800.

Get the HIS models with the ICEQ cooler, since those are nearly silent and run look real cool (pun intended).

[rhythmeister]

I would stay AWAY from the his X1650 pro, I killed one and am selling the rma replacement aftter testing! They DO use the nice arctic coolers and are next to silent so if you can get a HIS XT variant that'll be the best option as you'll have the better RV560 AND cooler. My card in spec's is the same size as my old 9600xt so in that BIG case of yrs it'll get lost!

[Pinchy]

Yeah i wont get an X1650 PRO, itll be X1650XT or stick with the X800 :p

So, the 7600 and X1300XT are out of the question?

Oh and rhythmeister, im not using this in my first rig (with specs to the left), im using it in my second (which is a barebones case and only has a 200W PSU :D). The X800XT PE runs on the PSU fine, so if the X1650XT uses less/equal power, it'll be fine as well (doing google search now :))

BTW - I would choose a HIS X1950XT with the AC (need good cooling for the barebones case). Its actually the cheapest (the HIS X1650XT normal is $200 for 256mb, the AC is $215 :D and the 512mb is $246 and with the AC its $260.)

I might get a 512mb (because the comp only has 1GB of RAM, the extra video RAM could help), but it just depends on how much i get for the X800.

[rhythmeister]

What's the case yr using? Depends on who made the psu-good 12V rail necessary!

[Pinchy]

So far, from two sites, ive found the X800XT PE recommends 350W, while the X1650XT recommends 450W. Sounds like X1650XT needs more power....not good :S


LOL only 10A on the 12V rail :D

But the PSU is damn good because its an abit case (abit digidice if you wanna look it up), and they only use quality stuff :D (from my experience)

[rhythmeister]

Try and find the ACTUAL current drawn by the 2 cards, not what is written on the box that someone's posted. Can you get a better psu also?

[Pinchy]

Yeah i need to find actual power draw...

I can get a better PSU, but it requires money which i dont have much of :p

lol, see for a 240W PSU (not *that* much better) its like $100.

[rhythmeister]

What's the case? Did u find a site giving accurate current drawn by the cards? I stumbled across one a few months back and didn't bookmark it, D'oh!

[tkpenalty]

X800 takes more amperage, hence the need for the PCI-E connector.

[rhythmeister]

I reckon tk's right but the boxes seem to say the newer card needs a greater psu, maybe ati buddied up with a group of psu manufacturers!

[Zubasa]

Yeah i need to find actual power draw...

I can get a better PSU, but it requires money which i dont have much of :p

lol, see for a 240W PSU (not *that* much better) its like $100.
The X1650XT does not need a power connector on the reference models (ex. Sapphire):D
Only some non-reference models like the Asus X1650XT need a power connector.
Even if there is a connector, it will not draw much extra power.

[rhythmeister]

I was amazed when I got mine and realized I just need to plug it in the socket and power up and that's it :D

[Zubasa]

I was amazed when I got mine and realized I just need to plug it in the socket and power up and that's it :D
Yes because around a quarter of the core was disabled.:D
The RV560s are made from defected RV570s.

[Pinchy]

So you reckon it wont take as much as an X800?

I havent been searching, been a little busy

[rhythmeister]

The general consensus appear to be no but make sure before u buy!

[Pinchy]

Found a pic :D

X1650 lookin good :) (Altho not sure if its AGP or PCIe)

http://img.techpowerup.org/070331/power.gif


http://www.hwupgrade.com/articles/video/34/sapphire-and-his-radeon-x1950pro-revisiting-agp-part-2_4.html

[KennyT772]

an x800xtpe will be fine, it is not worth it to upgrade to a x1650xt as there are only minor performance increases. for mid range cards a 7600gt is about the best, but will be slower in some things vs the x800. Stick with what you have, instead buy a new psu.

[Pinchy]

Why buy a new PSU if the current one is working a-ok?

Waste of money IMHO ;)

Plus, future games are gonna need SM3.0, which the X800 doesnt have.

It wont cost that much anyways...once i sell the X800, itll be like 10-20 extra for the X1650XT.

I wish i could buy from newegg though :cry::

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=x1650xt+agp

$120!!!

BTW - The X1650XT is a lot better than a 7600GT

[rhythmeister]

The x1650xt is consistently better, across the board, than the 7600gt from the reviews I've seen (such as on the trustedreviews site) so go with it! The only thing I don't like about it is having to turn some stuff down in stinker-smell of cherknobyl but the draw distance is massive on it anyway and I don't want to see every blade of grass lol

[Ketxxx]

SM3 aside, X800, as longs its a XT or better.

[rhythmeister]

...or an x850xt pe, apart from lack of sm3. Dark messiah of might and magic looked AMAZING with that card, still wish I had it in the pc!

[regan1985]

i would say the x850xt as its cheaper!! loads of 2nd hand ones arround and they seem to overclock better!!

[Pinchy]

My X800 PRO clocked past X850XT PE speeds, and had the 16 pipes (550/620), so i wouldnt buy an X850; id just stick with what ive got.

SM3 aside, X800, as longs its a XT or better.
Thats not always the case. In shader heavy games, the X1650XT is on par with the X800XT, some cases better, some cases worse. Its only in older games that the X800XT PE wins, but that wont matter when you are already on 200FPS (i cant really tell the diff b/w 200FPS and 300FPS...can u :p?)

X800XT - 16 pipes, 16 shaders.
X1650XT - 8 pipes, 24 shaders.

Gotta love that 3:1 shader ratio :D

Plus, the X1650XT has SM3.0. (self explanatory)



Oh and with price, the good part is, i wont be spending that much. Once i sell the X800, it should be another $10-20 for the X1650XT. Not that much money, not that much of an upgrade :D

[Stonecold80]

which card is better. the ATI RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB DDR AGP Graphics Card
or the ATI x850 Pro 256 AGP.

[regan1985]

x850xtpe agp 256 is better!! the 512ram on the x1650 doesnt make a massive difference as you cant really play games at really high res anyway!!! thats the main reason for getting more ram on gf cards!!

[Pinchy]

The X850XT PE is way better than the X1650 PRO. Although, it is on par with the X1650XT (X1650XT has less pipes, but more shaders, so it depends on the game played)

Should i go 256mb or 512mb?

Ive only got 1GB of RAM in the comp, so would 512mb produce any advantage?

[Zubasa]

The X850XT PE is way better than the X1650 PRO. Although, it is on par with the X1650XT (X1650XT has less pipes, but more shaders, so it depends on the game played)

Should i go 256mb or 512mb?

Ive only got 1GB of RAM in the comp, so would 512mb produce any advantage?
You should go with the 256MB version, anything lower than a X1950Pro won't take advantage of the extra memory at all.

[bigboi86]

Now do I have to stress that bus bandwidth does not always equal performance?

Uh, yeah it pretty much does. Sometimes they throw some really high speed gddr3 on a narrow bus and it will perform the same or slightly less than lower clocked memory on a 256bit memory bus.

They are designed to be cheap and compete with those older cards while offering new features.

I went from a 6800(256bit,DDR1) to a 7600GT(128bit,GDDR3) and the 7600GT romped all over the 6800, but you could tell it could be a LOT better of a card with 256bit ram cause the 3dmark score would increase the most when you upped the memory speeds, meaning the memory is what bottlenecked it.

Out of those cards I would get the X1650 though for sure.

[Zubasa]

The G73 of the 7600s seems to be greatly affected by the memory bandwidth.
The performance difference between 7600GT and GS shows this.

[tkpenalty]

The X850XT PE is way better than the X1650 PRO. Although, it is on par with the X1650XT (X1650XT has less pipes, but more shaders, so it depends on the game played)

Should i go 256mb or 512mb?

Ive only got 1GB of RAM in the comp, so would 512mb produce any advantage?

Not really, unless you want high res lol. X850XT PE if they are second hand, screw it, they wont last as long. X1650XT is quieter as well and doesnt need an external power source.

[Stonecold80]

x850xtpe agp 256 is better!! the 512ram on the x1650 doesnt make a massive difference as you cant really play games at really high res anyway!!! thats the main reason for getting more ram on gf cards!!

I'm talking about the x850 pro, not the x850 tx pe, so which one is better, so which one is better X850 pro or x1650 pro. i could only clock my x850 pro to core 571 than it's stop working, the memory to 588. i want flash my card to x850 tx pe, but i don't thinkso the menory on that is to high.

[Pinchy]

The X850 PRO would be better than the X1650 PRO. The X1650 PRO only has 4 pipes and 12 shaders; the X850 PRO has 12 pipes and 12 shaders.

If you could unlock the X850 PRO to 16 pipes, itll be even better.

The only advantage the X1650 PRO has over the X850 PRO is SM3.0 and slightly faster clocks.

[rhythmeister]

No point getting the x1650 pro, just get the xt version if it's a few quid more as it's got a far better gpu with more pipelines and shaders, I can't believe we're still debating this after the guy said he's not really gonna 'upgrade' to the x850 pro from his x800 'xt pe'. the only downside is going back from a 256bit mem' bus to a 128 bit but with the xtra power it'll not slow you down!

[Zubasa]

Actually the X1650GT is now on the market.
It is simply a X1650XT will lower clocks. (Just like the X1950GT)
I find it in stores for HK$699. (Around US$89)

[Behemoko]

Why buy a new PSU if the current one is working a-ok?

Waste of money IMHO ;)

Plus, future games are gonna need SM3.0, which the X800 doesnt have.

It wont cost that much anyways...once i sell the X800, itll be like 10-20 extra for the X1650XT.

I wish i could buy from newegg though :cry::

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=x1650xt+agp

$120!!!

BTW - The X1650XT is a lot better than a 7600GT

Why can't you buy from newegg..? I would buy your old x800 off of you in a second, lol. You answered every question I would have asked, but buying off sites like this is just.. well.. wierd.. :wtf: