lapped my IHS on a Q6600 (pics and results)

[graysky]

Well, after lapping my HS, I've had this nagging little voice in my head telling me to do the same from the CPU. I did the job with 800 grit sandpaper. Initially, I told myself I'd just buff what's there right now just to see if it's level. After about 30 laps in one direction and 30 in the other direction I discovered I had quite a concave IHS. So I just kept at it. Two 9x11 pieces of 800 grit later paper later I was left with a darn flat layer of copper looking back at me. I finished the job and put a mild shine on it with a sheet of 1000 grit I got from the local auto parts store just for the f*ck of it.

Here are a few pics and the temp. results I got from lapping both my CPU and HS. I would recommend that anyone wanting the best $20 decrease in temps should consider lapping both the CPU and HS.

Hardware details: Q6600 @ 9x333 and vcore of 1.2625V in the BIOS, P5B Deluxe (vdroop modded) cooled w/ an Ultra-120 Extreme (lapped) with Scythe/s-flex SFF21F 1600RPM fan, in a P182 case:

Temp results:
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5572/finalkf3.gif
Each temp. point represents an average of data collected over approx. 1 h time period during the 2nd pass of a 2-pass x264 encode of a 720x480 DVD source using a high quality video profile. Data points were logged by Speedfan every 3-4 seconds over this time period. The average CPU usage was >99 % on all 4 cores throughout the experiments. Also room temp was between 20-22 °C.

This is my preferred setup: 8x10 piece of glass on a flat counter top. You can see I cut the sandpaper into a thin strip (about 2-3x the width of the CPU) and attached it to the glass with some tape. The glass is in turn tapped down to the counter top to keep everything immobilized. You'll want to moisten the sandpaper with some mildly soapy water (like 1 drop of dish soap in 1 liter of water), then blot it until you have no pools of water. Remember, if you get water into your chip you're sunk. Then simple hold the chip and gently move it front-to-back. I don't recommend doing circles since they tend to give uneven results. The copper color on the sandpaper is material I just removed from the IHS on the chip.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4587/sandpaperwr5.jpg

Remember, you're after a flat chip here so don't push down on it as you lap: let the weight of your hands do it without extra pressure and go slowly so you don't use uneven pressure. After about 30 laps front-to-back, I gently blotted off the chip with a moist paper towel to remove the metal particles I just sanded off, then rotated it 90 degrees and repeated 30 laps front-to-back. Then you'll want to clean off the sand paper (add more water, then blot it damp and repeat). I'd recommend changing the sand paper frequently since it's really doing the work for you. That's basically it. You can start with 400 grit or so and lap until you can't see variations in the surface of the chip (no silver color is often a good indication that you're flat), move up to 600 or 800, then finish off with 1000 or 1200. I did mine entirely with 800 and 1000, it just takes longer with finer grits. Remember, the key is FLAT, not shiny. I would recommend that you do NOT polish the chip with a metal polish since you'll leave behind a residue that will hurt your heat transfer.

You can test the flatness at any point during the lapping process by carefully placing a razor blade across the surface of he chip and looking at the area where the razor meets the chip. Now position your eye so that you're level with the chip and pointing at a light source (a lamp will do nicely). Do you see any light coming though? If so, keep at it. Another test you can do is to take a black sharpie marker and make about 9 dots in a 3x3 grid on the surface of the IHS. Lap about 5 times, rotate, and do 5 more. Now look at the dots... did they wear off evenly? If not, keep at it. You can also simply draw an "X" from corner to corner on the chip and do this as well. Again, you'll looking for even wear.

After about 5 minutes of lapping in each direction with 800 grit. You can see how the nickel plating has come off around the edges first which shows you just how concave this thing really was:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1487/lap1dd9.jpg

After more lapping most of the nickel plating has been removed expect in the really low areas (the camera flash fired so close to the chip makes all the scratches show up much more so than they do under normal light):
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1806/lap2rx6.jpg

Switched to 1000 grit, here's the result:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7767/lap3nt9.jpg

Another angle shows the nice dull reflection, still very so slightly concave at the extreme edges, but good enough for me:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8664/lap4hc5.jpg

I would recommend that anyone wanting the best $20 decrease in temps should consider lapping both the CPU and HS.

Oh, I also thought I'd mention that before I lapped the chip, I had a pretty big difference in core temps when loading with prime95 or 2x orthos: up to 6 degrees C (sorry I don't have a screenshot of this). Lapping the chip REALLY evened-them-out as you can see from the coretemp numbers after the IHS and base of the heatsink were lapped (stressed using prime95 v25.3):

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6840/closena8.gif

The table I showed above was not based on prime95 or orthos, it was based on x264.exe which is a video encoder. It is good at using all 4 cores, but not as efficient as prime95/orthos which explains the differences in temps from that table.

[freaksavior]

very nice info, love the way you put it together

but, might i suffest you do it oncemore but use 2000 and it will be the most shiny peice of metal in your house ;)

how long did it take you?

[d44ve]

That is still scary with that many scratches still in it

[graysky]

@freaksavior - Actually took about 2 hours totally, but I kept getting interrupted.
@d44ve - I think the main thing is flatness and not such much fine scratches... the AS5 will fit them.

[graysky]

I just edited/updated the first post of the thread with a few more pics and a brief description of how I lapped the chip for anyone interested.

[kenjin]

lol i see you posting this every where, saw the same post on toms hardware guide forum and pcper.com

but good job on lapping it awesome result. i dont mind do my HS but i dont got the guts to do my CPU

[graysky]

Sure you do dude.. it's actually much easier than the HS. Once you start doing it, you'll have no problem finishing it. I was the same way you were before I just took the plunge and did it.

[Mussels]

i'm gunna have to go find me some sandpaper today... local stores only sell 800 grit at best, i want upto 2000 for this stuff :D

[Chewy]

go to an automotive shop or body shop. I found 1200grit at a hardware store but that was thier highest..

[Beertintedgoggles]

The AutoZone down the street from me carries up to 2000 grit, but if you can stand the wait it's loads cheaper to buy online. The only problem with lapping is once you start, you can't stop. I've lapped my cpu, chipset, gpu heatsinks on my current rig. I've lapped old gup heatsinks and chopped them up to cool my old A7N8X-E Deluxe MB. My old SI-97 is lapped in my gf's computer. My bro's and parents' cpu heatsinks are lapped due to me. Hell, I've even lapped the reverse side of an old 100 Mexican peso (have no idea where it came from... besides Mexico). I like my metal to be flat and shiny.

[Mussels]

Heres a question Graysky, since you already did this -

How many sheets of sandpaper did you go through, in the varying sizes?

EG, one sheet of 400, then one of 800, then two of 1200, etc - just curious as to the amounts i should buy (i'm going to do a 775 CPU and heatsink, so your usage should match mine)

[lemonadesoda]

At all lappers:

1./ Thin oil, or

2./ water+soap ?

[FOXCONN1115]

nice work, and a huge drop in temps, although still high for my liking :(

[Tatty_One]

Damn, this has even got me think about taking the plunge! This might be a job for the weekend if I can get some ultra fine paper, if not I will superglue a handful of salt to some cardboard and try that.

[FOXCONN1115]

Damn, this has even got me think about taking the plunge! This might be a job for the weekend if I can get some ultra fine paper, if not I will superglue a handful of salt to some cardboard and try that.

LMAO :roll:

[Tatty_One]

LMAO :roll:

:D

[mas0n]

I found a small woodworking shop in Dallas today that sells every increment from 40 to 12,000 grit in single sheets :rockout:

[graysky]

Anything over 1000 is a waste of $$$

[Mussels]

I found a small woodworking shop in Dallas today that sells every increment from 40 to 12,000 grit in single sheets :rockout:

i so hate you right now

Anything over 1000 is a waste of $$$

1200 and 2000 are good if you really want a fine polish, it depends the level you're at. I have 1200 for my best, and its still not 'mirror smooth' for those fanatics amongst us.

[Tatty_One]

Managed to find a 5 sheet pack of 1200.....£2.79....that will do for me, a nice job for the weekend when I install my new CPU and PSU :toast: Although I am only doing the heatsink as I will probably be selling my new 6850 at Christmas so aint gonna do that....it would scare most flea bayers off!

[InnocentCriminal]

Arrrh good stuff Graysky! Something I didn't give much thought, but I'll 'ave ago once I'm ready to WC my stuff!

[tigger]

i did this to my 6300 ages ago,a word of warning tho',this does void the warranty.

[nflesher87]

i did this to my 6300 ages ago,a word of warning tho',this does void the warranty.

come to think of it, he probably SHOULD have mentioned that in the first post, as it's common knowledge to many of us, yet some still may have no idea...
along with voiding the warranty, lapping can greatly decrease resale value so be careful there as well if you like to sell your old parts to get credit towards new ones!

also in response to people's comments about wasting money and what not on certain grit sandpaper, I'm not too sure what you're talking about as my local auto store sells up to 2000 grit but at all the same price, all 3M sandpaper and I believe it was $.6# a sheet...which is definitely affordable to me, they were almost 8.5 by 11 size but not quite

[Tatty_One]

Yup, thats why I am just doing my heatsink.

[average..]

i would give it a go if it did not take me the best part of an hour to attach my freezer64 pro. im not going thru that again, lol
i was certain i cracked the cpu die, the mother bored disconnected some capcitors.. the shock of my life when it actually powerd up.. maybe i will do my gpu's heatsink thats just a couple push clips.. oh and my MB's heat sink... will make a lapper out of me yet.. ;-)

[nflesher87]

i would give it a go if it did not take me the best part of an hour to attach my freezer64 pro. im not going thru that again, lol
i was certain i cracked the cpu die, the mother bored disconnected some capcitors.. the shock of my life when it actually powerd up.. maybe i will do my gpu's heatsink thats just a couple push clips.. oh and my MB's heat sink... will make a lapper out of me yet.. ;-)

lol I'll agree AMD HSFs are a biatch to get on at times, but if you just take it easy and make sure every part is where it needs to be, after having a few frustrating times of putting one on I just took my time and didn't get frustrated and it wasn't all that bad :)

[graysky]

Yeah, I remember how tough it was to get the damn thing on and off my XP3200+... it takes some finesse with a screw driver and a lot of downward pressure as I recall.

[AsRock]

That is still scary with that many scratches still in it

As he said it's because he used a good camera. My Pentax does it to there great for the extra detail.

[Mussels]

I've got my Q6600 and an ultra 120 extreme now. Considering lapping cause my core temps are upto 10C apart - the first two cores might load at 70C, while the 3rd and 4th load at 62C

Right now i'm idling at 46\45\38\42 - you think this is a good indication of a concave spreader?

best sandpaper i can get is 1600 grit, which i think is just peachy for making a nice fine lapping, if you think thats going to solve my problem.

[sneekypeet]

I've got my Q6600 and an ultra 120 extreme now. Considering lapping cause my core temps are upto 10C apart - the first two cores might load at 70C, while the 3rd and 4th load at 62C

Right now i'm idling at 46\45\38\42 - you think this is a good indication of a concave spreader?

best sandpaper i can get is 1600 grit, which i think is just peachy for making a nice fine lapping, if you think thats going to solve my problem.

you can always check its "flatness" with a new razorblade on edge and put a light behind it. If there is a gap between the two where light gets through then it has issues. I check mine corner from corner(X), and middle to middle(+). Also helps determine what grit paper to start with. The more light you see the lower(say 600) grit you start with. If you cant see light starting with higher(1000-1200) grit is recommended, because lower grit will only put deeper scratches you have to spend more time removing!:toast:

[Mussels]

you can always check its "flatness" with a new razorblade on edge and put a light behind it. If there is a gap between the two where light gets through then it has issues. I check mine corner from corner(X), and middle to middle(+). Also helps determine what grit paper to start with. The more light you see the lower(say 600) grit you start with. If you cant see light starting with higher(1000-1200) grit is recommended, because lower grit will only put deeper scratches you have to spend more time removing!:toast:

i got 400, 800, and 2000 grit ;)

i'll do thje razor test after work, thanks for the + / x advice

[sneekypeet]

I would suggest a grade between the 800 and 2000 its gonna save you alot of work if you do,also your shoulder and forearm. Maybe a 1200 or 1400 grit.

Personally I use 600 if flatness is way off to start, then 800>>>1200>>>1600 then finish it off with 2000 grit. Its all up to you ! Also I do finnish with an automotive polish called neverdull, then a hit with 90% alcohol.

[graysky]

@mussels - be sure you do your heatsink as well. You don't need anything over 1000 grit really. Remember you don't care if it's reflective, just that both surfaces are flat.

[Mussels]

@mussels - be sure you do your heatsink as well. You don't need anything over 1000 grit really. Remember you don't care if it's reflective, just that both surfaces are flat.

yeah, its just that reflective/shiny looks purdy in pics :)

not too sure on the ultra 120, my brother did his and his heatsink started corroding on the exposed copper - he DOES literally live on the beach, but it is still concerning me.

[graysky]

Hmmm... dunno what to say about that. I haven't seen lapped copper corrode, but I don't live near an ocean :)

[Mussels]

thats what i wanted to hear, i'm not on the ocean either, far inland. but he's definately less than 5Km from the water itself, and the air is quite salty.

but ok, next chance i get i'll see how flat the CPU and heatsink are, and i'll have a go at them (hopefully its the heatsink, i would like to keep my CPU's warranty if possible)

[Mussels]

new post cause i'm evil - lapping it now :) it was very concave (lower in the middle) just like the OP's, the copper is showing on the edges a lot sooner than in the middle.


Edit: done CPU only, heatsink will wait for another day.

idle 39-39-32-34

OCCT (quad threaded version)
load - 67-67-61-61

This is a lot better, as previously it was more of a 10C spread.
I assume lapping the heatsink next, will fix that and make me a happy camper :)

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

well .. today i got em one sheet of 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200 1500 and 2000

[FR@NK]

I finished the job and put a mild shine on it with a sheet of 1000 grit I got from the local auto parts store just for the f*ck of it.

Switched to 1000 grit, here's the result:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7767/lap3nt9.jpg

You guys might refer to this article:

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/cooling/air/39

Do I want a mirror finish?
If you start lapping your surface beyond the 600 grit range your gaps in the heatsink will be very small. Thus you MUST apply a very very small amount of thermal paste for proper thermal transfer. In most cases where you have a mirror finish your final result will be like this:
http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/39/images/lapping3.gif
There's no contact between the two metals because of excess thermal paste. The heat transfer of this is worse than with a surface that is only 600 grit because of the boundary layer of TIM between heatsink and CPU.

From Cathar:
I highly recommend that on the final grit you will use (either 600 or 800)....

[Mussels]

i edited my post, i guess you guys snuck in while i was doing that :P so check up to see my temps... really think the heatsink is messing the temps up now.

i'm bored enough that i'm going to attack the heatsink now too. new results in an hour or so :D

[Scrizz]

i edited my post, i guess you guys snuck in while i was doing that :P so check up to see my temps... really think the heatsink is messing the temps up now.

i'm bored enough that i'm going to attack the heatsink now too. new results in an hour or so :D

Results yet? :D

[Mussels]

Results yet? :D

got work in 30m, so i cant finish - more or less, it was EXTREMELY convex, pushing out towards the middle. this sucked balls, as kentsfields have the two dual cores slightly to each side - thats why two of my cores always ran hotter.

I'm getting ready for work now, but i'll finish it when i get off in 8 hours.

the blade test wasnt showing gaps, it was see-sawing in order to meet th corners (have it touch one corner, and to meet the other you literally had to see-saw it to the other side... at least a 1mm gap on the raised corner)

[graysky]

new post cause i'm evil - lapping it now :) it was very concave (lower in the middle) just like the OP's, the copper is showing on the edges a lot sooner than in the middle.


Edit: done CPU only, heatsink will wait for another day.

idle 39-39-32-34

OCCT (quad threaded version)
load - 67-67-61-61

This is a lot better, as previously it was more of a 10C spread.
I assume lapping the heatsink next, will fix that and make me a happy camper :)

Dude, 67-67-61-61 AFTER lapping the CPU only? What where your before temps out of OCCT? Also, what CPU settings and vcore are you using and were they held constant?

[Mussels]

Dude, 67-67-61-61 AFTER lapping the CPU only? What where your before temps out of OCCT? Also, what CPU settings and vcore are you using and were they held constant?

3.6GHz 1.425v - it was around 70C prior to lapping, thusly why i attacked the heatsink :)

new idles - 34-34-26-27

new loads - 60-60-51-51


god damn it, still 10C apart...

board has a solid in-built vdroop mod, so its not that. and this grease IS fresh AS ceramique, it will get better over time.

Its being retarded, the temps are 63C one second, then 66C, then back to 58C for a while... i think OCCT is just shit? what are you using to load the CPU?


Edit:
eventually its settle to 67-67-56-56
Not sure whats going on with it, but its irritating me.

with the case fan turned up a bit, i now have

63-63-51-52, better temps, but still 10C apart :(


yeeet another edit.
i was pretty sure i had the heatsink a lot flatter than stock, but i DID forget to do a flatness test on the CPU. its 3am now and i have a lan in 10 hours, so i'll finish it off early next week.

[Mussels]

new post because of pics. heres the CPU after i was done with it.

the second image shows as i was lapping it, that some areas went away a lot faster - the silver colored areas are the parts that were lower, therefore they got lapped last. Pretty damned uneven.


final edit:
i saw this

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=229063

read down lower, and they say removing the mobos retention clip for the CPU can lower temps a lot. this could be why my temps are uneven even after lapping!

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

i founf out today my chip or heatsink is uneven ... teh paste was in teh middle only .... ill get a razor and redo it if after AS5 burn in i dont liek teh temps


leave it under 3 days of folding

[Mussels]

_FBi;459898']i founf out today my chip or heatsink is uneven ... teh paste was in teh middle only .... ill get a razor and redo it if after AS5 burn in i dont liek teh temps


leave it under 3 days of folding

checked if your retention thing is bent, like in the link i posted? thats my next investigation.

[Mussels]

update: my retention clip WAS TOTALLY SCREWED, its nowhere neat flat at all.

After removing it and (VERY) carefully attaching my heatsink, i now have load temps of

62-62-54-54

Still uneven (cores dont match) but almost 10C lower - the old temps managed this at first, but it didnt last long. this time around the temps are stable at these levels.

for reference i'm using OCCT and i stated the highest temp each core gets, its varying a bit, and sometimes drops down to 58-58-51-51

[KennyT772]

You will never get the two die's at the same temp. Every chip has a different power envelope and heat output for one, and pressure and thermal paste will never be perfectly even. I would suggest putting a dab of thermal paste on the ihs and heatsink, then smoothing it out with your finger in a plastic bag. try to get it where there is only a very very thin layer on there. If you do that on the cpu and heatsink you should fill in almost all gaps in sanding without making the thermal paste too thick.

[Coolyou]

Your best bet for Sandpaper is:
UnitedAuto B&M

or

http://www.nortonautomotive.com/


most I would go is 1200 grit. no need for ooohhhh shinys, unless you've a troll!