Tripple and even Quad Crossfire possible

[niko084]

ATI and AMD can do triple and even Quad crossfire on its RD790 boards. This chipset will be launched this year, probably in Q4 2007 and ATI is working to solve the last pieces of driver overhead problem to make triple and quad Crossfire possible.

ATI has found a way to render more than three frames in advance and it is investigating how much performance you can get from a three or four graphics card setup. If all goes well, some graphics records will be broken and this might force Nvidia to reconsider canning its Quad SLI project from a while ago.

Another challenge is to make all this work under Vista, the OS that has been proven as a really hostile one to graphics manufacturers and its driver teams.

From: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2652&Itemid=51

[insider]

They ain't gonna get me into buying 2 expensive cards for CF/SLI, never mind triple/quad card setup not to mention energy costs is already expensive enough as it is in Europe, don't need these rather uncreative "features".

A single X2900XT already consumes FAR too much power.

[erocker]

They ain't gonna get me into buying 2 expensive cards for CF/SLI, never mind triple/quad card setup not to mention energy costs is already expensive enough as it is in Europe, don't need these rather uncreative "features".

A single X2900XT already consumes FAR too much power.

The next revisions will not consume nearly as much power.

[niko084]

The next revisions will not consume nearly as much power.

Yes, they are going to have to start making them much more power efficient, they can they have just been lazy about it.

[erocker]

No one has been lazy. It takes quite a lot to do a die shrink. The freakin card just came out a couple months ago?!

[niko084]

They have been lazy about it for awhile!

Their cards were getting out of control a few years ago...
Just like Intel got lazy with the P4...

Instead of doing the work upfront and releasing a great product they slammed it out the door to maximize profits... Just like most companies do, its as simple as that.

[devguy]

They have been lazy about it for awhile!

Their cards were getting out of control a few years ago...
Just like Intel got lazy with the P4...

Instead of doing the work upfront and releasing a great product they slammed it out the door to maximize profits... Just like most companies do, its as simple as that.

I kinda have to agree. At the time (and looking back), the term "Pentium 4 Mobile" seems like a contradictory statement.

[niko084]

I kinda have to agree. At the time (and looking back), the term "Pentium 4 Mobile" seems like a contradictory statement.

HAHAHA I didn't even think about that and I have a notebook with a P4 1.8

[erocker]

Cards really didn't start getting out of hand untill what, two years ago with the x1000 series of cards? A die shrink generally takes 2-3 years! If you look now the only cards that really suck power are the upper-end 8800's and 2900's, Crossfire/SLI setups, and while most if not all of thier other new cards are all about efficiency. I really don't see a need to complain. P4's were always hot and power hungry from the get-go with steadily increased miltipliers as time went on.

[niko084]

Cards really didn't start getting out of hand until what, two years ago with the x1000 series of cards? A die shrink generally takes 2-3 years! If you look now the only cards that really suck power are the upper-end 8800's and 2900's, Crossfire/SLI setups, and while most if not all of their other new cards are all about efficiency. I really don't see a need to complain. P4's were always hot and power hungry from the get-go with steadily increased multipliers as time went on.

I know very well how long it takes, but when you consider the fact that they test models that are years away from development..... Take that into consideration they are being lazy and going for profit... It's not abnormal, and I don't blame them for it.

By the way I know a few people that work in engineering for Intel, if you talk to any one of them they will tell you they very easily could have fixed the P4 HT power draw issues.

Don't tell me Ati/Nvidia can't make more efficient cards and not make us wait an extra year.

They save a lot of money by not going back and shrinking the die, that turns directly into profit, the prices on video cards are blown all up too.

**********
Give you an idea when I worked at circuit city I could get a x1900 from work for $104 brand new in the box... By the way when I worked there the discount was the stores cost on the card. So that gives you an idea to start on.

[DaMulta]

The key is you can run 4 HD 2600XT cards, and not just the high dollar ones. Also it's rumored that the HD2600XT is PCI-E 2.0 complant so some speed gain is possable.

So for around 400USD will put you into this marker with 4 videocards IF you use the 2600

[erocker]

Sorry, but you have it wrong. With prices, you are correct. But what company doesn't have things called prototypes that are sometimes a few years ahead? They need to use a little product development first, and in ATi's case it takes a while sometimes. Buisnesess need to watch thier own asses before rushing products out.

[niko084]

But what company doesn't have things called prototypes that are sometimes a few years ahead?

Ohh but they do... Take a look around technology, they engineer/ prototype/ test/ then once that is done stable then they start to work it down and make it price effective and profit effective to the market.

Try this-
SAN FRANCISCO, Feb. 11 — Intel will demonstrate on Monday an experimental computer chip with 80 separate processing engines, or cores, that company executives say provides a model for commercial chips that will be used widely in standard desktop, laptop and server computers within five years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/technology/12chip.html?ex=1328936400&en=1b419c18f5ab70c0&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Yes all these companies do prototype, you just generally don't hear about it because projects also fail and things are done far differently. You generally hear about the projects that passed and are going to be released in the semi near future.

[DaMulta]

Sorry, but you have it wrong. With prices, you are correct. But what company doesn't have things called prototypes that are sometimes a few years ahead? They need to use a little product development first, and in ATi's case it takes a while sometimes. Buisnesess need to watch thier own asses before rushing products out.
I guess you don't know where crossfire comes from. Crossfire was made originally for flight sims. A friend of mine has one on his base that has 30 or so radeons in it. They have experience in running lots of cards together.

[largon]

(...) it's rumored that the HD2600XT is PCI-E 2.0 complant so some speed gain is possable.Even 8x PCIe 1.1 would be overkill for a RV630. The chip simply doesn't have enough throughtput.

So for around 400USD will put you into this marker with 4 videocards IF you use the 2600I don't see the point in 4 HD2600XTs since it's more expensive than a HD2900XT and the quad is less powerful.

[niko084]

I guess you don't know where crossfire comes from. Crossfire was made originally for flight sims. A friend of mine has one on his base that has 30 or so radeons in it. They have experience in running lots of cards together.

I forgot about that...

SLi too... Used YEARS ago with pci video cards, maybe even with ISA cards but I don't know for sure... Used a little ribbon cable to connect them.

[niko084]

I don't see the point in 4 HD2600XTs since it's more expensive than a HD2900XT and the quad is less powerful.

Well now, how in the world would you know that 4x 2600xt's would be slower than a 2900xt?

and even if so its a pointless question...

2 1650pro's in crossfire are slower and more expensive than a single 1950pro and people still do it, it all comes down to what people can afford and when.

If you have $200 and need video cards, sure you can grab a set of 2600xt's...
Now a few months later you have $200 again and you want more punch...
Well you can save another $200 a few months later AGAIN or you can just go buy 2 more 2600xt's and call it a day.

[Scrizz]

wish i could do 4 x1950s now.....

[niko084]

wish i could do 4 x1950s now.....

You may be able to at some point through software control.

[Scrizz]

at some point but not now

[largon]

Well now, how in the world would you know that 4x 2600xt's would be slower than a 2900xt?Simply because:
- RV630 is roughly only a quarter of a R600 (one quarter RAM bus, one quarter ROPs, one quarter z-stencil units) 4* 1/4 < 1 in CF
- and secondly, Crossfire ineffieciency 65-75% would negate the gains of one card

Quad RV630 would have an upper hand for what comes to stream procs and twice the theoretical texturing power of a R600 but everything else lacks.
In addition, 4-way RV630 (á 50W) consumes more power than a single HD2900XT (á 165W).

[niko084]

Simply because:
- RV630 is roughly only a quarter of a R600 (one quarter RAM bus, one quarter ROPs, one quarter z-stencil units) 4* 1/4 < 1 in CF
- and secondly, Crossfire ineffieciency 65-75% would negate the gains of one card

Quad RV630 would have an upper hand for what comes to stream procs and twice the theoretical texturing power of a R600 but everything else lacks.
In addition, 4-way RV630 (á 50W) consumes more power than a single HD2900XT (á 165W).

Crossfire is hardly 65-75% inefficient.

To top that off the single fact of the matter is you are adding extra processors to your power not just speed.

It's like comparing a single core 3.2 ghz to a dual core 2.8 ghz...

But in this case you are going from 1 to 4.

[Scrizz]

so what's the point

[Casheti]

Maybe they'll do a bundle package, if you buy more than 2 at once they throw in a free PSU ;)

[niko084]

so what's the point

My point is it may go either way as far as I know..

Yes the 2900xt is quite a bit faster than a 2600xt that is no doubt..

But with the new way of lettings crossfire work, especially with these 3-4 cards it very well may even blow doors off a 2900xt, all kinda depends on how well it works. But as for that we will have to wait and see what happens.

[niko084]

Maybe they'll do a bundle package, if you buy more than 2 at once they throw in a free PSU ;)

If they went to pushing full quad gpu's I would guess they would start setting 2x card packages at a discounted price.

[largon]

Crossfire is hardly 65-75% inefficient.2-way CF might not be but 4-way surely would... It's like comparing a single core 3.2 ghz to a dual core 2.8 ghz...More like n_MHz single to n_MHz quad with redundancy and bad software.

[niko084]

2-way CF might not be but 4-way surely would... More like n_MHz single to n_MHz quad with redundancy and bad software.

What you keep failing to notice is they are completely changing the software.
Read the article.

[insider]

4x X2600XT would be crap, Largon is correct the efficiency drops further from standard CF/SLI, it's a waste of time and money, not to mention the crappy limited 128-bit memory bus... :lol:

We don't want the option of buying more cards that will be out of date in no time, we want cards with 2x/3x times the performance of the previous generation cards!

Triple/quad CF/SLI is just innovation backwards, gotta love these totally impractical and useless marketing crap, I'll leave this to the 3D benching nuts, why not if you have money to burn eh?

Double the performance by adding another £250 card I bought 6 months ago no thanks, people want new cards around 1.5-2x faster for the same price!

[largon]

Yes, they're trying to make the 3-way CF (= 2-way CF + physics) and true 4-way CF actually work. That's far from keeping the whole thing efficient.

[niko084]

Still didn't read... Go figure.....

ATI has found a way to render more than three frames in advance and it is investigating how much performance you can get from a three or four graphics card setup.

In other words they are talking about serious crossfire performance boosts across the boards let alone letting you use 3-4 cards.

And if you think no matter what a board to support 3-4 cards is going to be cheap... Not this is not a mass market project... This is a project for the people who buy $8000 alienware systems every year. There are a fair number of them, and even a few who may just come by the cash and invest it in and keep it for a few years..

Want to get more into video cards, how about the fact that DX9 vs DX10 is SOFTWARE, and your video card itself is PERFECTLY capable of running it. Your old dx8 card is capable of running DX10, and there are many projects working on telling microsoft and the card companies off because they force you to upgrade your CARDS when in reality the ONLY thing you should NEED is software.

Thats reality. That goes through, and guess what MANY people will be happy with their mutli gpu setup for years to come... I mean honestly who jumps out and buys ALL the newest games every year, the same people generally who will go bomb the money on triple or quad cards.

Seriously I have a hard time finding a new game to buy every 2-3 years.

**********
Remember before crossfire and sli got big people thought it would be a complete waste of money too, now look what its doing.

True 1 of my 1950xt's is fine enough, but I figured heh, why not for the price and just give it the extra kick.

[largon]

Your old dx8 card is capable of running DX10Eh?!
DX10 on native DX8 hardware?
That's a negative. The hardware is quite different.

[niko084]

Eh?!
DX10 on native DX8 hardware?
That's a negative. The hardware is quite different.

When are you going to realize DX is NOT HARDWARE! ITS SOFTWARE!

A card is dx8-dx9-dx10 compliant, it supports it... In other words they program them to tell your OS yes I work with dx*....

And when a new DX version is released, poof now you buy a new card....

*************
Take a look at the work going into this, like how about dx10 under windows xp.
*************
Hardware is different because they release a new card.


*******
I should add here that with a dx9 card Shader 3 running in dx10 mode, still wouldn't do it all
because dx10 has support for shader 4, so in that case yes it would be limited, but there is no
reason it can't use the majority of dx10 coding. The majority of these projects is to stop certain
games and such from requiring say dx10 install and a card, and allowing them to run normally in dx9
weather or not they were programmed to.

But it still is fact that DX is Software, period.

[DrunkenMafia]

shit, maybe people will actually be able to utilise one of those 1kw+ psu's I have seen out there.... heh.

Imagine having 4 2900XT's blowing out the back of your case... the paint on the wall would start bubbling!!!

[Scrizz]

Maybe they'll do a bundle package, if you buy more than 2 at once they throw in a free PSU ;)

lol.

[niko084]

shit, maybe people will actually be able to utilise one of those 1kw+ psu's I have seen out there.... heh.

Imagine having 4 2900XT's blowing out the back of your case... the paint on the wall would start bubbling!!!

And then you would have city wide blackout.

[insider]

It's no blackout when the entire city is burning in flames! :roll:

[niko084]

It's no blackout when the entire city is burning in flames! :roll:

My 1950xt's run nice and cool.....

*ohh ya i didn't overclock ANYTHING*

[pbmaster]

This may have been said already, but I'm gonna say it again. I think applications need to take advantage of the dual card setups before they even attempt to go for more.