Car help: 96 Mercury Topaz wagon.

[JrRacinFan]

Ok here's the deal;

Last night, we were at a red stoplight, car chugged for 2 moments then completely stalled and would not turn back over.

To me it sounds as though fuel filter/fuel pump problems. Could it also be a timing problem?

I hear the fuel pump kick on but there is a small gurgle when we first turn on the ignition. Any suggestions guys?

Thanx in advance!

[DR.Death]

could be something bigger then the fuel pump but it could be the crab is plugged or the air filter needs to be hanged or a gas line could be clogged or something like that

[hat]

Lower the overclock on the engine, and get a bigger radiator :)

[zekrahminator]

Is this a car with an automatic transmission or a manual?

[JrRacinFan]

@ Zek

Automatic.

@ hat

Nice! It's not my car so it wouldn't be "overclocked" :p

@ Dr. Death

Yeah, it has to be something real simple though, because the car was running completely problem-free .

[zekrahminator]

Ah, I missed the small gurgle part....perhaps the engine is merely flooded?

[JrRacinFan]

Had her try the car this morning, which was approximately 10 hours later, 8 1/2 hrs after it was towed.

Thanks for the help though Zek.

[Woah Mama!]

*edit*
The simple things you can do at home is disconnect the fuel pump and blow through it "return" way. could be a seized or wearing seal. If the car ran roughly for a short time before it stalled out completely it definitely sounds like either something has clogged the fuel line, there may be silt build up in the tank from dirty fuel which clogged the pump or it could be fouled injectors (I fail to see how a 96 model GM car would still be carbied). Also, if you hear a gurgle from the pump before ignition when the ignition is is on auxiliary (reds) then that is a tell-tale sign of a kaputske fuel pump.

Could be wrong, I know more about carburettor systems then injection. I also know bugger all about modern American engines.

Just noticed your last post, you say 'she tried it this morning' does that mean an attempt that did not succeed?

[JrRacinFan]

This car was towed back to her home. It had to have chugged about a good 30-45 seconds before complete stall with no turn back over.

It is a slight gurgle/"burp" when first turning on ignition but not attempting to turn the key completely to turn it over.

[zekrahminator]

We have our new official car guru :p.


Hey, my friend owns a '97 Mercury Mystique Sport with automatic transmission with power everything and 186,000 miles on it. It was in pristine running condition (albeit a little sluggish) until someone poured an unknown quantity of water into the gas tank. Now, after several tanks of gas and cans of acetone/powdered gas, my friend is getting a ton of backfires/kicks when the tachometer hits 2500RPM or higher. The problem gets a little bit less noticeable when the car has been running for a while, and disappears when my friend drives gently (keeps the engine at or below 2000RPM).

My friend's done just about everything they could have, short of taking it in for service. They've replaced O2 sensors, adjusted timing belts, and even had the transmission looked at (nothing seemed wrong at the time). What do you think, American car guru? :p.

[JrRacinFan]

Just noticed your last post, you say 'she tried it this morning' does that mean an attempt that did not succeed?

That is correct sir.;)

[Woah Mama!]

Try taking the fuel pump out (shouldn't be more then 2 bolts) and try blow through the sender first putting your finger over the opposite opening of the sender outlet to build up pressure then releasing and trying that again, same with the return line although I doubt the return line will be the problem. Also, I've always started automatics in neutral instead of park, I'm not saying doing that will help with what seems to be a fuel issue but it's always a better way to start the car. Is the car fuel injected? If it is then you will be up for a lot more trouble trying to sort the problem out and will more then likely need to take it to a mechanic, as injection is a pain... an expensive pain.
Oh, before trying to take the fuel pump out you could try tapping around the pump with a screwdriver handle or something, a ratchet handle will also be ok. If there has been bad fuel put through it for awhile then the silt from the dirty fuel may just be clogging up the fuel pump and giving it a few decent, but not solid taps will unsettle it from the pump and it may start up again. If it isn't in the fuel pump then while you have the pump off find the next connection along the line towards the engine, generally near the regulator and try to blow back through it. Oh and also, if the car is carbied take the air filter off and use the throttle to see if there is fuel getting to the engine, if there is then it could be a completely different matter like ignition. You might be hearing that gurgle from the fuel pump because there is an air pocket trapped in the pump that isn't getting out but lets minimal fuel through which wouldn't be enough to actually turn the engine over and start the ignition.

May sound silly but is your fuel gauge broken? Some asshat could have syphoned your tank before you left last night.
I can't think too clearly on it as I've been up all night watching movies. Google for some Mercury owners forums and see if there is much in the tech sections if someone experienced a similar problem, like I said I don't know much about modern American engines so it could be a wierd problem related to it being in essence...a Ford.

Oh I just realised I before mentioned it as a GM engine, damnit I am stoopid I need coffee.



Say what Zek? Car guru? Where?

[Solaris17]

does it turn over? if so you know its a timing belt when you dont here compression...the da dadadadadadadadad that the compresstion the valves opening and closing....if you just here a hummm type sound and its turning over but no dadadadad the timing belts probably gone. at which point you gotta hope its a non interference motor or your valves are bent

[DR.Death]

so when u try to turn it over what dose it sound like is it one the Virge of turning over or is there not a click the beating on the tank might work but if thats the case that there is stuff in the pump then u should bet the tank cleaned and the pump replaced to stop that from getting into your cylinders

[JrRacinFan]

Thank you Solaris, Dr. and Whoa for this helpful thread.

All the points here has given me the information to point in the direction of fuel pump.

Yes it attempts to turnover Solaris, it goes daa daa daaadaadaa daa daa daaadaadaa. Fuel guage isn't broken Whoa.

So it's like right there about to turnover but as soon as it tries it just repeats a timing cycle.

[JC316]

Yeah, your fuel pump probably went bye bye. It worries me because it's still making noise back there. Normally if the pump goes, it does nothing, except in the case of my Blazer when it was intermitnet.

[DR.Death]

glad to help

[Taz100420]

My fuel pump died on me and what I did to make sure its the pump was attempt to start it and when it fired, I pumped the gas like crazy. When I stopped it dies. $40 later and 2 hours of work, new pump was in.

If the timing did slip a notch, itll fire but not sound good at all. The timing would have to slip alot to cause a no fire.

What to do is on the fuel rail (the one where the injectors are) is where a valve is, looks like a bike tires valve, turn the key on and push down on the valve to see if you get a spray of gas, if so more than likely the fuel pump is good. If no gas, fuel pump doesnt hold pressure or the filter is clogged really bad.

[JrRacinFan]

Thanx Taz!

This is my mom we are talking about here and well she loves me and trusts me. Not enough though to work on her car, she has this weird feeling that I will somehow make it worse. I know whats going on with the care now, but its messed up she would rather take it to a mechanic and get the added bonus of "we warranty our work" vs. "let's save a good $100". :/

[Woah Mama!]

lmfao, $100? Not after they hit you up for the price of a fuel pump and whatever else they see fit to replace. An hour of the labour you pay for will be them standing around having a yarn about the blonde with big tits that just walked past the shop, trust me I used to work in one.

[JrRacinFan]

I know, it was just a random figure. Still bursts my buttons!

[Taz100420]

Thanx Taz!

This is my mom we are talking about here and well she loves me and trusts me. Not enough though to work on her car, she has this weird feeling that I will somehow make it worse. I know whats going on with the care now, but its messed up she would rather take it to a mechanic and get the added bonus of "we warranty our work" vs. "let's save a good $100". :/


No prob. Auto Technology is my main thing, been to school for it and computers are my next fav. thing to do.

But I know labor here is like $60/hr.! But I hope that narrows things down for ya!

[JrRacinFan]

Oh it did, I work on cars but I just needed some help confirming what I thought it was.

I really do appreciate it Taz. Where did you go to school at?

[Steevo]

Get a mechanic to bring a fuel pressure test kit over. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes. Simply put the pump has to provide enough pressure to spray the fuel out of the injector. If it doesn't, no go.

If it builds pressure, but pressure drops when cranking, they can do a flow test, a certain size orifice is allowed to run out fuel and pressure must not drop below a certain point. If it does it could be a dirty filter, or a failing pump.

If neither of these is it, most likely it is the TFI (Thick Film Ignition) that Ford used in the 90's. It was prone to failure, my parents had a 98 minivan and we replaced it twice in under 60,000 miles. It will crank, has fuel but no spark. One way to test this is to remove a spark plug boot from the plug, and get a cheap tool that you can test it with, usually a light that flashes when ignition is supposed to occur.

[JrRacinFan]

Possible for no spark, I will mention that to mom first chance I get.

Thank you Steevo!

[Woah Mama!]

TFI? HA! Another Ford invention that didn't work. Just like that recent 3,600,000 car recall that spread over something like 15 years for a component that if malfunctioned would make the car burst into flames (that is why you would have seen an Explorer or Crown Vicky on fire on the freeways)

[Solaris17]

thank you no problem...actually if it does turn over you could try seeing if it has a fuel shutoff. my buddys escort's fuel shut off kept tripping for like no reason he tinkered with it and boom car started right up...i was quite happy seeing as it was 2AM just got out of work and i wanted a ride home.

[Taz100420]

Oh it did, I work on cars but I just needed some help confirming what I thought it was.

I really do appreciate it Taz. Where did you go to school at?
I went to Lincoln Tech in Indianapolis. Not a bad school just expensive.

[Taz100420]

Get a mechanic to bring a fuel pressure test kit over. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes. Simply put the pump has to provide enough pressure to spray the fuel out of the injector. If it doesn't, no go.

If it builds pressure, but pressure drops when cranking, they can do a flow test, a certain size orifice is allowed to run out fuel and pressure must not drop below a certain point. If it does it could be a dirty filter, or a failing pump.

If neither of these is it, most likely it is the TFI (Thick Film Ignition) that Ford used in the 90's. It was prone to failure, my parents had a 98 minivan and we replaced it twice in under 60,000 miles. It will crank, has fuel but no spark. One way to test this is to remove a spark plug boot from the plug, and get a cheap tool that you can test it with, usually a light that flashes when ignition is supposed to occur.

If you have an extra spark plug take the boot off and put the plug into the boot and put the plug against a good ground and DO NOT TOUCH the plug while someone else is cranking. Believe me, a car can jolt ya pretty good.
I always remember white spark your alright, red spark your dead. (or none at all)

[JrRacinFan]

Very interesting information. It's just too bad I won't be seeing mom until sometime this upcoming weekend.

[Woah Mama!]

Not to worry Jr. At least you have gained a bit of insight if something happens to you in your car.

Also, I think it's the best idea for anyone who has bought their first car to read up on how engines work etc on-line. It can save you getting ripped off by mechanics who like to think young people don't know anything. Eg. Friend of mine took her Corolla into a mechanic because the exhaust was making a buzzing noise under acceleration, he looked under it, charged her for a new exhaust but it was only a rubber exhaust mount that would have cost her about $3. So all she did was pay for a whole new exhaust system and for it to be put it.