Tom's Hardware Previews AMD's Phenom Line

[Lopez0101]

Just saw this a few minutes ago and I've been reading through it. They're only using engineering samples but it's a pretty interesting read and offers some insight into what AMD's processors are going to look like when they come out and how they perform. Give it a read.

Phemon Line Preview (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/19/the_spider_weaves_its_web/index.html)

[von kain]

i have to say phenom looks like a performance disappointment to me ...

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

phenom = phenomenal dissapointment

[newconroer]

| With this platform, code named Spider, AMD aims to offer the basis for a computer that is affordable for everyone.|


And that's why it won't come out on top :)

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

the top model cant compete with a q6600?

[von kain]

| With this platform, code named Spider, AMD aims to offer the basis for a computer that is affordable for everyone.|


And that's why it won't come out on top :)

i am a real amd fanboy i really am i will buy the spider platform even if it is slower (and overclock it ). it isn't the cheapest it is the mid-range though but i have to say i was expect at least 10% faster than the 6600 not slower

[DOM]

i am a real amd fanboy i really am i will buy the spider platform even if it is slower (and overclock it ). it isn't the cheapest it is the mid-range though but i have to say i was expect at least 10% faster than the 6600 not slower

lol did you look at the whole review its still slower Then Phenom 9700 running at 2.4 GHz, which will arrive come January, can narrow the gap to 9.8% in our benchmark suite

where intel is going to release there 45nm cpus which are lil better stock but oc better

im going to say amd is going to have to get on the ball cuz they already lost alot of money and need to start making it back :ohwell:

[regan1985]

again it depends on overlock if they overclock well that people will go amd quad but, i like AMD and i thought they would bring something we havent seen and from what im seeing they spend lots of time on somthing Intel have had for a while now, and they price of a q6600 atm they need to be a lot better,from looking at realesed prices!!


the performance looks like what you would think if you had a x4 version of the am2 x2 chips but they have realsed a new chip and design and it doesnt seem to cut it!!

[WhiteLotus]

i really do hope AMD have an ace up thier sleeve. but i do believe once applications become 4 core threaded these things will start to fly

[Darknova]

So when they finally get rid of all the bugs, and fix any flaws it will probably perform on par with current Intel processors. So it will be all down to price won't it?

[BullGod]

So when they finally get rid of all the bugs, and fix any flaws it will probably perform on par with current Intel processors. So it will be all down to price won't it?

Well Alienware are selling the new QuadCoreQX9650 from Intel overclocked at 4ghz. I think that says alot about the new Intel line of processors. I don't think that anyother time in history a company was willing to give you a warranty for an +1ghz overclock. I don't think AMD can compete with that and frankly I'm really affraid that in a few years they will be bankrupt...

[panchoman]

reading the beginning of the article, the first few pages, im like..... yeah, phenom owns, and its gonna kick some penryn ass

nearing the end, im like...... somebody kill me...

[WhiteLotus]

reading the beginning of the article, the first few pages, im like..... yeah, phenom owns, and its gonna kick some penryn ass

nearing the end, im like...... somebody kill me...

you never know it may still do that, penryn may suck...:rolleyes:

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

you never know it may still do that, penryn may suck...:rolleyes:


too late for that. why?

teh phenom cant even beat 1-2 year old tech

[panchoman]

_FBi;538086']too late for that. why?

teh phenom cant even beat 1-2 year old tech

ditto.

"Its just a little too late, a little too wrong..."

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[WhiteLotus]

yea i know it is a shame, but if AMD can price it right then a lot of people are still going to go with them - hell i might just to see if they can recover in the next couple of years.

although my new Intel spec looks mighty tasty at the moment at £565. will have to wait for the UK for the Phenom and then spec up and compare!

[panchoman]

hopefully we can buy phenom x2's and reactivate 2 cores and get an x4....

[grazzhoppa]

The practical benchmarks that matter to me (Games, AntiVirus Scan, WinRAR), the Phenoms are pretty much equivalent to the same-clocked Core 2 Duos.

When it comes to multi-threaded applications (Supreme Command PC game, WinRAR), the 2.4GHz Phenom (4 cores) is inline with the 2.66GHz E6750 (2 cores). I imagine this is because of the two extra cores.

The Phenoms will have less power consumption during idle (most of the time my computer is in use). But it has a higher TDP than Core 2 Duos, which suggests they draw more power when all 4 cores are loaded 100%.

The Phenom, for my purposes, will only be a disappointment if they are priced above or at the same price as equivalently clocked Core 2 Duo's. In other words: they better be cheaper than Intel's equivalent offerings or else I'm not interested.

In the case of the 2.4GHz Phenom, it will be a disappointment to me if it's priced above US$180-190 retail, which is what the 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo is going for now, since 2.4GHz Phenom = 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo for the applications I am interested in.

[WhiteLotus]

if you can do that then AMD are truely stupid. anyway whats the point in developing a native 4 core processor and then removing two cores. its just a fancy way of designing a new dual core.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

The practical benchmarks that matter to me (Games, AntiVirus Scan, WinRAR), the Phenoms are pretty much equivalent to the same-clocked Core 2 Duos.

When it comes to multi-threaded applications (Supreme Command PC game, WinRAR), the 2.4GHz Phenom (4 cores) is inline with the 2.66GHz E6750 (2 cores). I imagine this is because of the two extra cores.

The Phenoms will have less power consumption during idle (most of the time my computer is in use). But it has a higher TDP than Core 2 Duos, which suggests they draw more power when all 4 cores are loaded 100%.

The Phenom, for my purposes, will only be a disappointment if they are priced above or at the same price as equivalently clocked Core 2 Duo's. In other words: they better be cheaper than Intel's equivalent offerings or else I'm not interested.

In the case of the 2.4GHz Phenom, it will be a disappointment to me if it's priced above US$180-190 retail, which is what the 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo is going for now, since 2.4GHz Phenom = 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo for the applications I am interested in.

this is false

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/amd%20phenom%20launch_111907121132/16065.png

[panchoman]

if you can do that then AMD are truely stupid. anyway whats the point in developing a native 4 core processor and then removing two cores. its just a fancy way of designing a new dual core.

well phenom x3's are x4's with a core disabled

[WhiteLotus]

well phenom x3's are x4's with a core disabled

yea i know i dont understand why AMD would release a tri core. if its aimed at lower users then cant they just downclock and down price a quad core. and then maybe a hardware hack to disable OC it back up to whats its meant to be. surely a low clock quad will be better than a normal tricore

[suraswami]

yea i know i dont understand why AMD would release a tri core. if its aimed at lower users then cant they just downclock and down price a quad core. and then maybe a hardware hack to disable OC it back up to whats its meant to be. surely a low clock quad will be better than a normal tricore

That depends on the process. If they are anticipating a core failure in tests out of integrated Quad then the reason for a Tri-core is valid. Probably they will use the same architecture and release a dual-core Sempron with lesser cache when it goes to 2 core failures.:D That will be quite a nice blow to the Celys:D

Atleast AMD will not run out of Petty Cash and pay those dick head CIOs and CTOs

[keakar]

well i was expecting them cheaper but not SLOWER, i wasnt even expecting them to be much faster if at all, but i WAS expecting a product that speed tests would show match up equally fast head to head for a better price.

its hard not to be negative on anything AMD or ATI when the best they seem to come up with lately is the wendy's value menu, not quite what you want and not really food but its cheap!

[Gallatin]

its hard not to be negative on anything AMD or ATI when the best they seem to come up with lately is the wendy's value menu, not quite what you want and not really food but its cheap!
ATI is on downfall at the end of production of x1950... then is chaos. and since was bought from AMD dosen't seems to have any marks of recovery....
as for AMD from bad to whorst....

that what you get when you dont point to top (or in that case poiont in the budget pc):laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[mandelore]

But it has a higher TDP than Core 2 Duos

AMD measure the absolute maximum thermal output, Intel take the "average". so infact AMD may well be lower in thermal output department, just they rate their Thermal envelope as being the max that 100% each core full useage can output

[nflesher87]

_FBi;538107']this is false

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/amd%20phenom%20launch_111907121132/16065.png

actually I think YOU may be wrong, with Cool N' Quiet 2 enabled phenom should win the idle power consumption

[jpierce55]

Just saw this a few minutes ago and I've been reading through it. They're only using engineering samples but it's a pretty interesting read and offers some insight into what AMD's processors are going to look like when they come out and how they perform. Give it a read.

Phemon Line Preview (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/19/the_spider_weaves_its_web/index.html)
I already expected AMD was slower from past data, but it is better than I expected. At least it ~matches Intel on power per dollar. Lets hope it keeps them floating, but it does not look promising for AMD.

[kwchang007]

actually I think YOU may be wrong, with Cool N' Quiet 2 enabled phenom should win the idle power consumption

Idk..from the chart it looks like Core 2 wins. Unless of course the chart is just randomly made up or based off false info. Note that includes the whole system, so maybe it could be swayed either way based on choice of mobo. So it's not really anything to go off of. But you know who wins....my laptop :D.

Anyways....this really doesn't look all to bright for k10.

[von kain]

ok any ideas why amd release the overdrive.......because many of the people that will buy a phenom they will overclock it from the box...meaning since they install it because with a 400mmhz oc its gonna rock.......(my guess )

[AsRock]

Slower but cheaper ?. I think there next line will be much better than this one to be honest.

[FatForester]

I'm not too surprised.. but I'm hoping the rumors of an unlocked multiplier on one of the cheaper phenom's turns out to be true. That'd be awesome!

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

actually I think YOU may be wrong, with Cool N' Quiet 2 enabled phenom should win the idle power consumption

so teh graph lies?

[panchoman]

_FBi;538729']so teh graph lies?

this was in bold right before the graphs, page 14:


Under these circumstances, our results, especially the idle measurements, can thus not be considered reliableyet, since the boards still lack full support for the power saving functionality.

[FatForester]

All of the sites I've seen today regarding Phenom (about 4 or so) have ALL stated Phenom as using more power than Intel offerings. One site reviewed the Phenom 9900 and stated it as having a TDP of 140 watts!

[0elemental0]

ive never had an intel based machine (i was like 1 of 10 people who went cyrix) but i am actually considering it now....this is just getting redicilous

[suraswami]

ok any ideas why amd release the overdrive.......because many of the people that will buy a phenom they will overclock it from the box...meaning since they install it because with a 400mmhz oc its gonna rock.......(my guess )

That's because their internal programmers were bored when their hardware dept lagged behind in delivery. So when they were bored they played with their own systems and wrote their own Overclock tool. Being a internal programmer is an advantage. You know all the holes!

One good manager saw this nice tool and told his boss his boss.... They thought this might save their asses from totally being chewed. Hence was born 'Overdrive'

[peach1971]

ive never had an intel based machine (i was like 1 of 10 people who went cyrix) but i am actually considering it now....this is just getting redicilous
I tell you what:
AMD should have developed a "Brisbane 7000+ Black Edition XL" with 2x 2MB L2 Cache instead of that early Quad crap. ;)

[von kain]

i read something nice from a couple of site the first was amd http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUSideBySide.aspx?id=20&id=21&id=33 and if someone have notice it amd will release phenom on a b2 steeping not plain 2 as most previews.second i read on inq that they will test it on there own controlled environment

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/19/inquirer-school-benchmarketing

and i quote
"First and foremost, INQ will run a review of Phenom processors when they arrive in our own controlled environment, where it will be possible to compare it with the competition and the previous generation."

"We talked with AMD and they are going to deliver us CPUs which are representative of ones you are able to buy in stores today, not AMD 2.4GHz engineering samples " ones."

lets see if there is any difference between preview and review

[peach1971]

I guess that won´t fix THIS:

Phenom's L3 cache and North Bridge work on the same power plane, one separate from the rest of the CPU. Socket-AM2+ enables the use of two separate voltages, one for the L3 cache/NB and one for the rest of the CPU, whereas Socket-AM2 motherboards run the entire chip at the same voltage. The original plan was for Socket-AM2+ motherboards to run the L3 cache/NB at a higher frequency than the rest of the chip, unfortunately it looks like AMD wasn't able to make that happen.

Currently, the L3 cache/NB on these chips runs at a fixed frequency that's actually lower than the rest of the CPU frequency: 2.0GHz. We tested Phenoms running from 2.2GHz all the way up to 2.6GHz, and in all cases the L3 cache and North Bridge ran at 2.0GHz. We're not sure if this will ever get fixed, but it's somewhat disappointing as it was supposed to be a major reason for upgrading to Socket-AM2+ (but it's good news for current AM2 owners). http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3153&p=4

[Tomcat81970]

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3153&p=4

i really didnt like that review, i feel that it was a little intel fanboy who was taking all the bad points about the Phenom and making it seem that the Phenom is completey worthless.

Yes the Phenom wasnt what i had expected, i was expecting it to atleast be on par with intels quad cores even at its lower frequency. Once overclocked, the Phenom should be a worthy competitor, but only to stock intels. The Phenom would have been perfect at the middle of the year, not at the end. The K10 is revolutionary, but isnt cutting it for AMD.

Its overclocking potential is what will make it or break it for me. In the tomshardware review they were able to raise the clock speeds 800mhz (from 2.2 to 3.0) with out touching the vcore, that to me shows that this processor is a nice oc'r, but in the anandtech articel it says they were not able to get it stable at 2.8, which is very confusing. The porcessor Tomshardware oc'd was an engineering sample, so who knows if the retail Phenom will produce the same effects. I like AMD and wish to stay AMD, but i want a new platform and now im not sure which route to take... I want to build a computer that will last me the next few years but as of now the Phenom has made a turn for the worse...

[keakar]

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3153&p=4

i really didnt like that review, i feel that it was a little intel fanboy who was taking all the bad points about the Phenom and making it seem that the Phenom is completey worthless.


The porcessor Tomshardware oc'd was an engineering sample, so who knows if the retail Phenom will produce the same effects.

well unless AMD is totally STUPID they would not send out a sample for review testing and have it flop! they would make damn sure it was pretested to be the best bug free top quality version they had.

and tom's hardware has no agenda to promote intel over amd, think about what your saying, there is no logic to it.

[Tomcat81970]

actually, on the overclocking part of the review, it gets reasonable....

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/597/12/

the chip overclocked to 3ghz stable, on air!

so we can hope for much better on water or TEC cooling (im gonna TEC cool my phenom)

also, their engineering sample chip was apparently bugged and a bit iffy..

at stock, 2.6ghz it got 5.8 on vista performance index
^ see, they weren't at their best

well unless AMD is totally STUPID they would not send out a sample for review testing and have it flop! they would make damn sure it was pretested to be the best bug free top quality version they had.

and tom's hardware has no agenda to promote intel over amd, think about what your saying, there is no logic to it.

how about next time do your research before cutting some one down... AND second i was referring to the review from anandtech which didnt like, that is why i included the LINK... intel fanboy

[Lopez0101]

how about next time do your research before cutting some one down... intel fanboy

Actually I don't think Mandelore has ever owned an intel processor. . .:roll: I could be wrong though.

[Laurijan]

Quite embarrassing that this soon released Phenom can´t compete with a Q6600 with is available for quite some time now.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

Quite embarrassing that this soon released Phenom can´t compete with a Q6600 with is available for quite some time now.

which is about to be phased out soon ...

[Tomcat81970]

no no i was referring to the post above me, i just didnt quote it because it was directly above me, i was using that quote to support my side... so i edited it, sorry.

o and i just bought a Phenom 9500, MSI K9A2 Platinum AM2+, G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) 5-5-5-15, and a Seagate Barracuda 500GB SATA with perpendicular recording.:rockout:

[tigger]

Well for me the most impressive one was the E6750.For such a cheap processor it was up near the top on a lot of them result lists.And i guess that was stock,so at 3.6ghz the 6750 would be up in the top on al the result lists.

The guy testing seemed to be quite happy with the way the chips performed.personally i think it comes down to choice,choose amd or choose intel.