Phenom Is Not A Core 2 Killer

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

...The problem is, and I hate to ruin the surprise here, Phenom isn't faster than Intel's Core 2 Quad clock for clock. In other words, a 2.3GHz Phenom 9600 will set you back at least $283 and it's slower than a 2.4Ghz Core 2 Quad Q6600, which will only cost you $269. And you were wondering why this review wasn't called The Return of the Jedi.
Ive said this for a while now. I just knew Phenom wasnt going to beat the Core 2 line. :nutkick:

Source: Anandtech.com (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3153&p=1)

[DOM]

Given the launch frequencies, you can expect that Phenom isn't a tremendously overclockable chip.

While we were able to run our 2.4GHz chip at 3.0GHz, we couldn't get it stable. Even 2.8GHz wasn't entirely stable, but 2.6GHz was attainable for benchmarks.

Alot of AMD fanboy are not going to be happy :ohwell:

[WhiteLotus]

i dont understand how it isnt faster - in theory the native quadcore chip is better, but then i guess communism works in theory

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

I believe I saw on this forum a guy with an avatar stating that "AMD Phenom will pwn Intel" or something like that. Guess not.:ohwell:

[DanTheBanjoman]

i dont understand how it isnt faster - in theory the native quadcore chip is better, but then i guess communism works in theory

Besides in 10 years China dominates the economy and the USA are already struggling. Communism:)

Anyway, how is the native quad core faster in theory? It could be faster in theory, but that's as far as you can go with only 1 variable.

[Dark_Webster]

But, let's hope that AMD can start catching Intel in terms of performance... I don't think that anyone would like to be limited to only can choose one brand of processor and chipset and, most important, graphics card!

[Kreij]

The thing I read somewhere is that while Intel went to SSE4.1, AMD is using SSE4a and the two are not compatible. There could be much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the development arena.

[WhiteLotus]

Besides in 10 years China dominates the economy and the USA are already struggling. Communism:)

Anyway, how is the native quad core faster in theory? It could be faster in theory, but that's as far as you can go with only 1 variable.

that a ruddy good point about china about to bend USA over and give it a good seeing too - economically GDP speaking here guys!

and i dont know - just seems everything ive read on native 4 core says they will be faster. but maybe thats just what AMD want you to believe!

this is disappointing though - i really hope it pulls something out of the bag last minute.

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

Here are some gaming benchmarks (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3153&p=9).

[JC316]

I am not sure about this just yet. When I see retail CPU's on retail boards, THEN I will be satisfied. Until that happens, this is all kinda obsolete.

[von kain]

I am not sure about this just yet. When I see retail CPU's on retail boards, THEN I will be satisfied. Until that happens, this is all kinda obsolete.

isn't suppose that only "a sith deals in obsolete?" :ohwell: i believe that to because as i write on a other post there are some glinces on most pre-views

i read something nice from a couple of site the first was amd http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUSideBySide.aspx?id=20&id=21&id=33 and if someone have notice it amd will release phenom on a b2 steeping not plain 2 as most previews.second i read on inq that they will test it on there own controlled environment

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/19/inquirer-school-benchmarketing

and i quote
"First and foremost, INQ will run a review of Phenom processors when they arrive in our own controlled environment, where it will be possible to compare it with the competition and the previous generation."

"We talked with AMD and they are going to deliver us CPUs which are representative of ones you are able to buy in stores today, not AMD 2.4GHz engineering samples " ones."

lets see if there is any difference between preview and review

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

it's all a conspiracy


by whom?

who is benefitting?

[tigger]

4 cores on one die is good in theory,but if the yields are bad,the prices for the good ones rocket.better or not i think the duel duel way is better because the yields are better on duels so you have no shortage of the "quads" to supply.why do you think amd is making a triple core? obviously quad dies with a bad core disabled.

[Ketxxx]

Run a Phenom on a 266FSB with a lower multi to as close as possible match a C2D equivilent, then bench it.

[mandelore]

I know this is one review, but its more of a sobering realisation than a sobering farewell to K8...

I know the gaming benchies are still ok.. like crysis, 4 fps is nuthin to cry about, but I REALLY feel let down.

Im a die-hard AMD fan, but I just feel so bleedin annoyed and aggrivated, wtf are AMD FLIPPIN DOING!!!

I have an am2+ m3a32-mvp on preorder, already got my Tracer 8500's, but not purchased a phenom yet. I have many a time swore never to go intel, for starters I dont have a clue about oc-ing on an intel platform, but im so mad right now.

feels like im purchasing a dead donkey. Dunno what to do really, I need to get a future proof, solid gaming system, something to remove the bottleneck from my 2900xt, as for the past year I have had to live with sub 3ghz clocks on my cpu.

Lols, I know this sounds far too dramatic, but im bleedin pissed off. My faith in AMD is eroding and I dont want it to, I dont want to lend my support to a near monopoly company.... argh :(

[tigger]

Just get a E6850/q6600 till penryn comes along and be done with it.

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

Im going to try and get a Penryn when they release. A Q9450.

mandelore,

Intel CPU's are not thta hard to overclock. My current machine is really my "first" Intel machine since my PIII which I knew jack shit about computers then. I went into overclocking my quad core knowing nothing about how to and it really isnt all that bad. There is a guide on overclocking C2D's on this forum and the principle applies to quads as well. There are also a plethora of other guides out there that are very helpful.

Swearing to never go Intel is just ignorant. No offense. More or less fanboyism. I just dont understand their concepts. Why not just go with whats best for what your money is at that given time and be done with it?

[peach1971]

Again:

Phenom's L3 cache and North Bridge work on the same power plane, one separate from the rest of the CPU. Socket-AM2+ enables the use of two separate voltages, one for the L3 cache/NB and one for the rest of the CPU, whereas Socket-AM2 motherboards run the entire chip at the same voltage. The original plan was for Socket-AM2+ motherboards to run the L3 cache/NB at a higher frequency than the rest of the chip, unfortunately it looks like AMD wasn't able to make that happen.

Currently, the L3 cache/NB on these chips runs at a fixed frequency that's actually lower than the rest of the CPU frequency: 2.0GHz. We tested Phenoms running from 2.2GHz all the way up to 2.6GHz, and in all cases the L3 cache and North Bridge ran at 2.0GHz. We're not sure if this will ever get fixed, but it's somewhat disappointing as it was supposed to be a major reason for upgrading to Socket-AM2+ (but it's good news for current AM2 owners). http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3153&p=4

Can anyone forecast what a difference it will make once this issue has been fixed? ;)

[JC316]

isn't suppose that only "a sith deals in obsolete?" :ohwell: i believe that to because as i write on a other post there are some glinces on most pre-views

Thats absolute :p. I am just saying that things can change, I doubt that they will, but they CAN.

Personally, I think that AMD should take their beating and move on to something that can really target the extreme gamer and put a dent in the C2D line of chips.

[mandelore]

Swearing to never go Intel is just ignorant. No offense. More or less fanboyism. I just dont understand their concepts. Why not just go with whats best for what your money is at that given time and be done with it?

Well, I know its silly really.. But I was trying to lend support to AMD because quite frankly they needed it, and I was also hoping that paid off with something quite exceptional.. it doesnt look like its going to happen.

No offense taken, its not ignorance tho, It was a decision I made on purpose, but hell.. look where thats got me. The best cpu I ever had was my Athlon 64 4000+ single core. Before dual cores that was a real killer cpu.

But I just find it astonishing that intels chips can take a whole extra 1ghz core speed on default voltages like it was taking a yawn, and we have to drag AMD chips screaming like a small child for just a modest overclock

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

the last time i overclocked it was with a axp chip, that was hell, 150-250 mhz .. joke ting dat. swore never to overclock again. until core2 ...

[Random Murderer]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/nethermouse/lold.jpg

[Silverel]

DAAMIT simply took too long to merge, the industry moves way too fast for that kind of stuff.

They really got under Intels skin in their glory days, and they woke up the sleeping giant. Whatcha gonna do?? Turn your back on AMD processors if you like, feed the monopoly, and don't forget to :cry: about the death of AMD while you're at it.

nVidia got the same jumpstart. ATI fell off the map for a while, nVidia grabbed hold of the open market and released some killer cards that have yet to be beaten.

Price wars suck for the companies, really hard to make loot when you need that market share to touch black ink. Sustainability is a necessity in business after all. It's not the end of the world though. Before the merger they were both top notch, the discrepancy to being the best at what they did was a slim margin.

Point being, it's two damn fine companies. They're 6 months to a year behind, and if they get lucky one of the two giants will slip up. Intel has the fastest processors, nVidia has the fastest video cards. Grats. DAAMIT still has plenty of room to compete, and if they need to drop prices to get that price/performance back, it'll happen.

They seriously need some marketing though, gawddamn.

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

DAAMIT simply took too long to merge, the industry moves way too fast for that kind of stuff.

They really got under Intels skin in their glory days, and they woke up the sleeping giant. Whatcha gonna do?? Turn your back on AMD processors if you like, feed the monopoly, and don't forget to :cry: about the death of AMD while you're at it.

nVidia got the same jumpstart. ATI fell off the map for a while, nVidia grabbed hold of the open market and released some killer cards that have yet to be beaten.

Price wars suck for the companies, really hard to make loot when you need that market share to touch black ink. Sustainability is a necessity in business after all. It's not the end of the world though. Before the merger they were both top notch, the discrepancy to being the best at what they did was a slim margin.

Point being, it's two damn fine companies. They're 6 months to a year behind, and if they get lucky one of the two giants will slip up. Intel has the fastest processors, nVidia has the fastest video cards. Grats. DAAMIT still has plenty of room to compete, and if they need to drop prices to get that price/performance back, it'll happen.

They seriously need some marketing though, gawddamn.
I cant argue that at all.

[theonetruewill]

Well, I know its silly really.. But I was trying to lend support to AMD because quite frankly they needed it, and I was also hoping that paid off with something quite exceptional.. it doesnt look like its going to happen.

No offense taken, its not ignorance tho, It was a decision I made on purpose, but hell.. look where thats got me. The best cpu I ever had was my Athlon 64 4000+ single core. Before dual cores that was a real killer cpu.

But I just find it astonishing that intels chips can take a whole extra 1ghz core speed on default voltages like it was taking a yawn, and we have to drag AMD chips screaming like a small child for just a modest overclock

I like AMD too man, but if this is true this is a substandard product compared to Intel. Let's put it this way, are you going to be the guy who puts his hard-earned cash forward for a product that's slower than another one that's cheaper, and overclocks worse...
I say this on very little evidence but apparently the Phenom's cannot clock as high as the Q6600 G0 for example. I tell you I'm fed up with AMD's useless overclocking. When I have spent about 20 hours all in all trying to overclock this chip as high as it will go and only overclocking 0.4GHz (4600 X2), when a mate who's a complete newbie can overclock 1.4Ghz on a Core 2 in 30 minutes, I get pissed off.

My conclusion: I want Core 2

[mandelore]

lol yeah, I spent all afternoon trying to get this opty 185 from 2.9ghz normal oc to 3 and it just would not budge.

Out of curiosty... whats the "best" 775 motherboard available? is the x38 or summit the latest chipset?

I really havent got much of a clue about intel boards, I however, love Asus boards.

If i did, say, go with intel (cant help shuddering a wee bit) I would obviously have to cancel a pre order for the m3a32-mvp mobo. And when are the penrys released? coz i have a limited budget, albeit i saved up alot, and I have my current rig to sell, so im looking at around £700ish, already got my tracer ddr2 modules

Edit: does asus have the equivalent of the amd m3a32 in intel flavour, but with ddr2 support?

ASUS Maximus Formula Special Edition?

[theonetruewill]

lol yeah, I spent all afternoon trying to get this opty 185 from 2.9ghz normal oc to 3 and it just would not budge.

Out of curiosty... whats the "best" 775 motherboard available? is the x38 or summit the latest chipset?

I really havent got much of a clue about intel boards, I however, love Asus boards.

If i did, say, go with intel (cant help shuddering a wee bit) I would obviously have to cancel a pre order for the m3a32-mvp mobo. And when are the penrys released? coz i have a limited budget, albeit i saved up alot, and I have my current rig to sell, so im looking at around £700ish, already got my tracer ddr2 modules

I've heard nothing but good things about the Asus Maximus Formula (X38), as for Penryn's I don't know, sorry.

[AsRock]

I my self did not expect it be better just like the R600 i think the next lot well hope the next lot like the R700 will be upto par. Might have it together by then.

Maybe we get cheaper prices now :) :P ?

[DOM]

The rest of the Yorkfield's should be out in Jan 08 ;)

[mitsirfishi]

you could do a intel p4/pentium D complete failure run completely toasty not going to mention names Cough Prescott then while they where mass producing failure they had the ace of spades :) same with Nvidia with fx line sinse the 6 series of nvidia they have been alot more competitive and in quiet alot of cases faster than Ati and they are playing catch up now

all theories need to be proven and depends on the arcutecture of the chip aswell but im sure amd will have something to attempt to throw at intel like my ole amd 6000 is no faster than a e6600 at stock when she is at 3.6ghz then its bit quicker but my e6750 puts it shame

[theonetruewill]

Mandelore, why don't you get an E2140 and clock it to 3.0-3.3GHz to tide you over until Penryn arrives? Just my suggestion, the E2140's are great overclockers.

[TheMailMan78]

that a ruddy good point about china about to bend USA over and give it a good seeing too - economically GDP speaking here guys!

My company does a lot of business in China and abroad. The Chinese economy will not and can not continue at its current momentum. Communism is a joke and China will crash just like the USSR did in the 90's. They can barley feed their military now! A lot of people are hoping and wishing for the US economy to fail but thats not going to happen anytime soon. Unemployment is at an all time low and our economy is growing. War is the best business sadly. I honestly hope Russia keeps getting aggressive. Another cold war and we can pull out of the mid-east with absolutely no chance of a recession. GO USA! :rockout:

[theonetruewill]

Mandelore - take a look at this (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/601506/intel-core-2-extreme-qx9650---first-look.html).......

Ditch AMD, go Intel.

[Silverel]

I like AMD too man, but if this is true this is a substandard product compared to Intel. Let's put it this way, are you going to be the guy who puts his hard-earned cash forward for a product that's slower than another one that's cheaper, and overclocks worse...

Yes and no.

I'm waiting for the x3's. Just to be interesting.

By the time they come out, there will be enough am2+ boards on the market that I'll actually have choices too. Not to mention drivers on both GPU's and CPU's that aren't quite mature yet.

They're playing catchup, it's sloppy, but they're still unbelievably competitive. I'm not ignorant, I just have my flavor, and it isn't Intel. AMD is second rate material right now, but at my price-point for building a system, it's negligible.

[theonetruewill]

Yes and no.

I'm waiting for the x3's. Just to be interesting.

By the time they come out, there will be enough am2+ boards on the market that I'll actually have choices too. Not to mention drivers on both GPU's and CPU's that aren't quite mature yet.

They're playing catchup, it's sloppy, but they're still unbelievably competitive. I'm not ignorant, I just have my flavor, and it isn't Intel. AMD is second rate material right now, but at my price-point for building a system, it's negligible.

Mandelore wants the performance though. He's hardcore!

[mandelore]

Mandelore wants the performance though. He's hardcore!

:roll: lols that made me smile, and :eek: & :twitch: @ that insane 4ghz overclock on air, btw, im getting a spanky new TEC cooler for my new setup, got the older version on my opty atm

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw6500-T1.asp

argh.. I dont think i will be able to afford a major upgrade for quite some time, so I may have to invest in intel (but i still lub ATI ;) )

[theonetruewill]

:roll: lols that made me smile, and :eek: & :twitch: @ that insane 4ghz overclock on air, btw, im getting a spanky new TEC cooler for my new setup, got the older version on my opty atm

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw6500-T1.asp

argh.. I dont think i will be able to afford a major upgrade for quite some time, so I may have to invest in intel (but i still lub ATI ;) )

What's the point in getting a cooler for something that isn't good at overclocking. Instead, get the chip and then buy the cooler when funds return. I;m not trying to be a dick here- just logical. I decided against getting watercooling for my 4600 because, while it would be cool- there isn't any point for my setup. It wouldn't make it clock higher than say... 2.9GHz.

[tigger]

thats a nice block/tec there.

Its not so bad on the darkside,the perks are good(easy high oc's,cool temps,cheap good clocking chips)

[mandelore]

What's the point in getting a cooler for something that isn't good at overclocking. Instead, get the chip and then buy the cooler when funds return. I;m not trying to be a dick here- just logical. I decided against getting watercooling for my 4600 because, while it would be cool- there isn't any point for my setup. It wouldn't make it clock higher than say... 2.9GHz.

I know what ur saying, and that tec purchase would be for the 45nm's, but yes I would not be getting it just yet for any intermediary cpu, I would hold off to give me some financial breathing room, so to speak

[theonetruewill]

I know what ur saying, and that tec purchase would be for the 45nm's, but yes I would not be getting it just yet for any intermediary cpu, I would hold off to give me some financial breathing room, so to speak

Wait for both then. Wait for the Penryn to arrive, and wait for the TEC to lower ever so slightly in price. It's not like your current cooling is bad!

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

Out of curiosty... whats the "best" 775 motherboard available? is the x38 or summit the latest chipset?

I really havent got much of a clue about intel boards, I however, love Asus boards.

On the x38 side, I would hold off as there is a bug that was not able to be fixed in that release. Hence the x48. I dont know what exactly that bug was though.

If i did, say, go with intel (cant help shuddering a wee bit) I would obviously have to cancel a pre order for the m3a32-mvp mobo. And when are the penrys released? coz i have a limited budget, albeit i saved up alot, and I have my current rig to sell, so im looking at around £700ish, already got my tracer ddr2 modules
The Penryns are amazing chips. Check out this link (http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/68867/) 12MB of L2 cache with a 1333 FSB and they are known to hit 4GHz on air! Thats pretty damn amazing. And they are pretty damn good price wise. ~$316 for a Q9450. Thats what Im going after.

Edit: does asus have the equivalent of the amd m3a32 in intel flavour, but with ddr2 support?

ASUS Maximus Formula Special Edition?
Not sure as I havent kept up with AMD for the longest time now. Ill take a look around.

My responses in bold.

Edit: Yeah I would say that Maximus board by Asus.

[Grings]

the waterblock on the se is crap though, i'd go for the regular maximus
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=704909

[Sovereign]

So much useless speculation in this thread that my head hurts...

AMD has yet to but is about to roll out the very first of it's next generation chips against Intel's already well established lineup and everyone is saying that AMD has one foot in the grave already.

Although the Penryn/Yorkfield series is in it's relative infancy, you are already laying down and giving it the crown even though AMD's answer to that chip has yet to see the light of day. I'll start formulating my own opinion once AMD has had a chance to establish and mature it's new Phenom generation and the Agena FX makes it to market.

Even if that latest Intel product is faster than the new Phenoms, the fact is that it is NOT by much! I don't know about you but I'm not using my PC to do rocket science calculations for NASA so that tad bit of performance gain from Intel chips is not enough to make me change sides! :wtf:

[Lopez0101]

What I noticed that I thought was weird in the Tom's Hardware benchmarks was the Memory benchmark and how the Phenom was pulling lower scores in it that some Intel's and a lot of other AMD procs and that's normally a test that AMD tends to lead with.

[hat]

Hm. I've liked AMD because they've been cheaper and, in P4 days faster, today slower. Not huge, but very real. Price/Performance AMD wins, but most are willing to spend the extra money the performance. Now AMD is more expensive and slower. Oh well, this 5200+ isn't going anywhere for a long time.

[nflesher87]

lol you rock sov :rockout:

and Silverel, welcome to TPU, it's refreshing to read some highly educated comments!

[bryan_d]

Let's see:
- inefficient use of power
- low frequency yields
- slower than competitors outdated mid ranged CPU's

And to top it off, you are paying roughly the same for an inferior product. It would be like spending 7 dollars on a fast food burger that uses awful meat, aged vegetables and stale bread that tastes like salted cardboard; while that same 7 dollars can buy you a burger with prime meat, fresh veggies, and restaurant cooked bread that tastes wonderful (replace meat with veggie patti for those vegetarians). Where would you spend your 7 dollars?

Maybe with failure of AMD, Intel will grow complacent again, then AMD can come in "ninja style" and steal the show again...

I felt bad leaving the A64 world, and going with the C2D, but now I know I would have felt foolish for wasting money on the fast food burger.

bryan d

[hat]

You'll feel even worse when you decide to start clocking that CPU of yours some more!

[erocker]

I don't need a Core 2 killer, I need a game killa!

[panchoman]

I don't need a Core 2 killer, I need a game killa!

agreed

[hat]

My CPU is a game killer, heh.
For once, a system exists where the CPU is bottlenecked by the GPU. o_O
I wish I had an uber clocking video card like that one dude's 7600gt...

[bryan_d]

You'll feel even worse when you decide to start clocking that CPU of yours some more!

:)

I just bought an Abit IP35-E to replace my 30 dollar Asrock, so overclocking will continue beyond the BSEL mod. I can not believe I was ecstatic with a 400MHz increase using an X2, and now I feel deprived with "just" a 600MHz increase to my C2D. Hope fully the new motherboard will give me at least a 1200MHz increase over stock.

But back on topic, I really would have been more interested in the Phenom if it were not for its power use which are higher than lower end models both in idle and full load. I thought AMD was pushing for "Green and Efficient"?

Maybe we can be optimistic and hope that AMD was just yanking our chains, and is actually realeasing the Phenom with non-castrated HT link.

bryan d

[yogurt_21]

Phenom isn't faster than Intel's Core 2 Quad clock for clock.

hate to be a buzz kill but
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3153&p=9

oblivion bruma

amd phenom 9700 (2.4GHZ) 76.1fps
Intel q6600 (2.4GHZ) 74 fps

crysis

9700 57.6 fps
q6600 56.7 fps

granted its not much but still 2 outta 4 is hardly enough to call a winner, especially being that the phenom is run on untested drivers and chipsets while the q6600 is run on stable optimsed drivers that have been out for months. clock for clock, we've really yet to see a clear winner.

and seriously anadtech has ALWAYS been intel biased and always will be, just read the review, it's an all out amd bash from the get go. poor choice really. as I said I hate to be a buzz kill to this nice little intel fanboy bonfire, but this one's still up in the air people.

[hat]

That's the sad side of us enthusiasts. We pour so much money into replacing what we already have (in this case, the asrock mobo) with something better--but not much better. I won't be upgrading anything other than my PSU anytime soon, but that's only cause my PSU sucks, see specs lol.

[bryan_d]

That's the sad side of us enthusiasts. We pour so much money into replacing what we already have (in this case, the asrock mobo) with something better--but not much better. I won't be upgrading anything other than my PSU anytime soon, but that's only cause my PSU sucks, see specs lol.

I think it is even more saddening to use the Asrock motherboard with a dead IDE channel, and FSB limitation of 290MHz. :( And with the higher FSB capabilities, the use of a "real" PCI-E 16X channel, SATA 3.0, and actually using my memory at 800MHz, the IP35-e will get its money worth... which was $65 buck to be exact. :)


granted its not much but still 2 outta 4 is hardly enough to call a winner, especially being that the phenom is run on untested drivers and chipsets while the q6600 is run on stable optimsed drivers that have been out for months. clock for clock, we've really yet to see a clear winner.


When the 2900XT came out, I was thinking that the same driver phenomenon would occur just as it did with the release of the Radeon 8500 series; but sadly even till now the 2900XT is not what the paper specs would have you think it should be. And I loved my Radeon 8500LE. I believe that ATI/AMD's hands are just too filled at the moment to achieve any greatness.

[a111087]

lol, I just read a different review where it says that Phenom isn't faster, but equally cheaper.
add it up with a smaller cost of AMD mobos and you got a winner...
so, right now Intel and AMD are about equal when it comes to performance/price, so it's really up to you guys.
But fanboy-hate-threads like this should not exist! :nutkick:

EDIT: Anardtech is worse than Fudzilla or Inquirer put together! :)

[PuMA]

AMD is just running out of money....

[a111087]

AMD is just running out of money....

they actually didn't loose any money and hopefully they will earn even more this quarter and so on

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

hate to be a buzz kill but
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3153&p=9

oblivion bruma

amd phenom 9700 (2.4GHZ) 76.1fps
Intel q6600 (2.4GHZ) 74 fps

crysis

9700 57.6 fps
q6600 56.7 fps

granted its not much but still 2 outta 4 is hardly enough to call a winner, especially being that the phenom is run on untested drivers and chipsets while the q6600 is run on stable optimsed drivers that have been out for months. clock for clock, we've really yet to see a clear winner.

and seriously anadtech has ALWAYS been intel biased and always will be, just read the review, it's an all out amd bash from the get go. poor choice really. as I said I hate to be a buzz kill to this nice little intel fanboy bonfire, but this one's still up in the air people.

and how much will a 9700 cost? and what clock speed is a 9700 running at?

factor in that amd had 1-2 years to come up witha killer ... amd = teh lamerz

[Wile E]

Does everyone forget that AMD only held the performance crown for 3 years? How long did it take for them to get to that point? This isn't very surprising at all.

As far as the Phenom vs Core 2 Quad, as far as overclocking enthusiasts are concerned, I'm still willing to bet Intel is still WAY ahead. AMD still does have something in their corner tho. I've been trying to move to Intel for months now, (and it's been a dismal failure for me ,I keep killing stuff. lol), and although the cpus are priced competitively, the mobo prices are what keep me from being able to do it. A good clocking AMD board with decent features can be had for $60-80. A good clocking Intel board with the same features start at $130.

[mandelore]

Basically, I am looking for a setup that will last me a long time, somthing I can overclock like a banshee, as I love to overclock, and something that can really unleash the power of my pc for gaming.

no doubt the phenom will be decent, but having put up with mediocre overclocks and dissapointing results, I want something more, something to really give a kick to my system.

its like when I originally had my single core sandy 4000+. This amazing cpu overclocked from 2.4ghz to well over 3, up to 3.3Ghz infact, while remaining extremely cold under tec cooling, as in never broke 20C even with 1.7volts running thru the monster.

Then I seen dual cores, and thought, oh wow, they must be great, so I got me an opty 185(current cpu) and was sorely dissapointed..

every single cpu and memory bench was slower, I could not oc much at all, only a few 100 Mhz, and the slightest increase in voltage set the temperatures soaring under the same tec cooling, at a voltage of 1.5+ the temp soared to 50+c even with the IHS removed and liquid metal thermal compound applied.

I have had a long time dealing with this annoyance and frustration, and seeing 3dmark benchies rediculously low for such high oc's on my graphics card.

I thought the phenom, originally, would be this answer, but AMD, although making massive strides in unifying 4 cores on 1 die etc, just dont have the overclocking knack that I seek. I really held out hope, and I "know" these are very early benchies and review, but they agin show a trend... :(

and intels penry (however its spelled) right from the word go has dazzled and amazed.

I have invested money into AMD, yet have not gained alot from them since the yonder days of the single cores where they simply rocked the shit outa intel :rockout:

I need the performance, and looks like it may have to be intel, not happy about it, but life generally dissapoints, so we have to find alternatives

Hell, I will still buy ATI cards, coz at heart, ATI will always be ATI (i bloody hope) and I know they can deliver, albeit after some driver implimentations down the line. But at least thats software, their hardware is right on otherwise.

I believe this is a logical decision, and I fully intend on going AMD again when they have figured out the secret of multicore overclocking, but intel may have to be a stop gap till then

[wiak]

if you look at intels budget vs amds, you should say outstanding achievement
and it will improve just like they did with athlon 64, after some core revisions

[wiak]

I know this is one review, but its more of a sobering realisation than a sobering farewell to K8...

I know the gaming benchies are still ok.. like crysis, 4 fps is nuthin to cry about, but I REALLY feel let down.

Im a die-hard AMD fan, but I just feel so bleedin annoyed and aggrivated, wtf are AMD FLIPPIN DOING!!!

I have an am2+ m3a32-mvp on preorder, already got my Tracer 8500's, but not purchased a phenom yet. I have many a time swore never to go intel, for starters I dont have a clue about oc-ing on an intel platform, but im so mad right now.

feels like im purchasing a dead donkey. Dunno what to do really, I need to get a future proof, solid gaming system, something to remove the bottleneck from my 2900xt, as for the past year I have had to live with sub 3ghz clocks on my cpu.

Lols, I know this sounds far too dramatic, but im bleedin pissed off. My faith in AMD is eroding and I dont want it to, I dont want to lend my support to a near monopoly company.... argh :(

with AMD you are future proof as in you can put a AM3 CPU with DDR3 in a AM2+ socket and it will work just fine, that cant be said for intel that even need to move away from FSB in a year :laugh:

[mandelore]

if you look at intels budget vs amds, you should say outstanding achievement
and it will improve just like they did with athlon 64, after some core revisions

quite true, AMD is a phenomenal company, doing great things with little compared to Intel. (ok, thats a blatent cheesy punn, but its true)

Its just ive waited so long for something fantastic and I cant wait much more, I needed that performance last year (virtually) and it hasnt happened. just like intels quads, AMD will revise, refine and ultimately improve way beyond what they have now, I love the AMD overdrive, its fantastic, but too little too late at the moment. If they give me something that is great and really delivers then that will be awesome

[Sovereign]

quite true, AMD is a phenomenal company, doing great things with little compared to Intel. (ok, thats a blatent cheesy punn, but its true)

Its just ive waited so long for something fantastic and I cant wait much more, I needed that performance last year (virtually) and it hasnt happened. just like intels quads, AMD will revise, refine and ultimately improve way beyond what they have now, I love the AMD overdrive, its fantastic, but too little too late at the moment. If they give me something that is great and really delivers then that will be awesome


Why do you need that performance? Are you doing something sooooo fantasticaly important that the small margin of performance that the C2D offers over the Phenom is absolutely necissary?

If the first generation Phenom ends up not being as stellar as it was first thought, meaning that it only ends up performing on par or just a little under the latest generation of Intel chips, the extra cost of moving to an Intel setup is just not justifiable in my book. The Phenom will drop into a current generation AMD setup, reducing cost ten fold. The same can not be said if moving to Intel, your going to have to buy almost a whole new entire setup! And for what? Cause you have to have a few more seconds dropped on your Super Pi score?

Quite sad if you ask me... :ohwell: :twitch:

[3991vhtes]

Now AMD is more expensive and slower.

Wrong. AMD is cheaper.

[wiak]

Yes and no.

I'm waiting for the x3's. Just to be interesting.

By the time they come out, there will be enough am2+ boards on the market that I'll actually have choices too. Not to mention drivers on both GPU's and CPU's that aren't quite mature yet.

They're playing catchup, it's sloppy, but they're still unbelievably competitive. I'm not ignorant, I just have my flavor, and it isn't Intel. AMD is second rate material right now, but at my price-point for building a system, it's negligible.
dont forget BIOSes can do realy much to memory preformace and and overall system preformace

[hat]

Wrong. AMD is cheaper.
I'm talking about the Phenom. Phenom vs Q6600, more expensive for less performance.

[DaMulta]

My Phenom 9500, and MSi 790x Chipset is on it's way:)

Can't wait to play with it, and put some intel chips to shame.

[3991vhtes]

I'm talking about the Phenom. Phenom vs Q6600, more expensive for less performance.

oh. I thought you were talking about AMD in general.

[mandelore]

Why do you need that performance? Are you doing something sooooo fantasticaly important that the small margin of performance that the C2D offers over the Phenom is absolutely necissary?

If the first generation Phenom ends up not being as stellar as it was first thought, meaning that it only ends up performing on par or just a little under the latest generation of Intel chips, the extra cost of moving to an Intel setup is just not justifiable in my book. The Phenom will drop into a current generation AMD setup, reducing cost ten fold. The same can not be said if moving to Intel, your going to have to buy almost a whole new entire setup! And for what? Cause you have to have a few more seconds dropped on your Super Pi score?

Quite sad if you ask me... :ohwell: :twitch:

im on a 939 setup, so either way id have to get a totally new system.

performance wise, which is the logical upgrade path?

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

x48/x38 + 45 nm quad + 2*2 gb ram

Or you could wait until 790 rolls around to Intel.

[strick94u]

Despite the lack of huge overclocks facts remain the same AMD builds a powerful inexpensive cpu.

[hat]

I can imagine prices dropping soon as well. It is after all a brand new product.

[Lopez0101]

Despite the lack of huge overclocks facts remain the same AMD builds a powerful inexpensive cpu.

They have for their last generations since they're becoming older and very cheap. But it still remains to be seen exactly how much retailers will charge for the chips to see if they're really that great of a deal.

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

My Phenom 9500, and MSi 790x Chipset is on it's way:)

Can't wait to play with it, and put some intel chips to shame.

Yeah...maybe the Pentium 2's, 3's, 4's and D's. Cant forget the single Core Duo's. :laugh:

[DaMulta]

Have you seen any reviews that are not engineering samples?

Have you seen any NORAML users with them OCing them on water yet?

On a lot of the reviews we are talking about a frame here and a frame here. You will not see that during normal use. But I can be honest I can't wait to run 3dMark06 with it.

I'm happy I'll have a Quad Core CPU with a kick ass motherboard.

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

If they are a major improvement over the engineering samples fine. I could care less TBH. Once Penryn is released (assuming Phenom does deliver which I doubt) AMD will be under water again.

With Penryn doing 4Ghz on AIR, water cooling a Phenom chip to 3.2GHz wont make any difference as the Intel chip will be cooler, on a better fabrication, and over clock probably past 5Ghz on water. AMD wont stand a chance.

FYI, this is not fanboyism. I dont play favorites. I buy whats best for my money and that right now and probably will continue to be Intel for a while now. If however AMD manages to pull their thumb from their ass, I will retract my statement until we see what Penryn delivers in the next month and a half. But dont be surprised if I have to tell you "I told you so".

*My intent is not to piss anyone off. I am just trying to have a friendly, healthy discussion*

[bryan_d]

Wow,

It really sucks for AMD:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/18/amd-delays-phenom-ghz-due-tlb

Not only did they introduce a CPU that did not perform well, some will actually not work!

So much for your new system, eh DaMulta?

[DaMulta]

9500 (2.2 GHz) and 9600 (2.3 GHz) parts are unaffected by the errata. Some 9500/9600 parts may even be overclocked to 2.6, 2.8, 2.9, 3.0 GHz and they will have no problems whatsoever, while some will have this error. In any case, you should update the BIOS of your shiny new Phenom system is clocked higher than 2.4 GHz


In any case I can RMA for new stepping.

[a111087]

Update to BIOS solves the issue...

[EastCoasthandle]

Phenom Is Not A Core 2 Killer??
Are you honestly holding that torch from 2 years ago? Everyone knew last year that if anything, K10 should at least compete if that. :wtf:

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

If you look at the link I provided in the original post, I did not come up with the name. SO dont cry to me about the thread title or what AMD Phenom lacks. Just posted findings.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

if you guys want anything out of that proc you better crank dat http://smiliesftw.com/x/souljasmilieblk.gif

[EastCoasthandle]

If you look at the link I provided in the original post, I did not come up with the name. SO dont cry to me about the thread title or what AMD Phenom lacks. Just posted findings.

If that's the case then you shouldn't be so offended by my post. Truth is, no one really expected Phenom to be a C2D killer and we are talking nearly a year ago.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

If that's the case then you shouldn't be so offended by my post. Truth is, no one really expected Phenom to be a C2D killer.

but that was not the sentiment of the AMD faithful on this board.

[EastCoasthandle]

_FBi;541729']but that was not the sentiment of the AMD faithful on this board.

Really :eek:
Oh, I see...I honestly didn't know about this debate, carry on.
But in all honesty when E series was released most should have known better by then...

[Wile E]

If that's the case then you shouldn't be so offended by my post. Truth is, no one really expected Phenom to be a C2D killer and we are talking nearly a year ago.I agree with you, ECH.