Blu-ray Disks Outsell HD-DVD Disks By 3-1 in Europe

[zekrahminator]

The HD-format war stalemate seems to have been smashed to pieces. Thanks to the PlayStation3 shipping with a Blu-ray drive, several million gamers have a Blu-ray player already attached to their HDTV, and are not bothered to buy an HD-DVD player. Now that several million gamers have a Blu-ray player, they're buying Blu-ray movies to watch. Of 1,369,863 HD movies sold last month, a relatively paltry 369,863 of them were HD-DVD. What's more, if Blu-ray sales figures included actual Blu-ray games sold, then there would have been more than 21 million Blu-ray disks sold. The main movie that attributed to such successful Blu-ray sales was the extremely awesome movie "300", which was a very graphic portrayal of the battle of Thermopylae.

Source: Reg Hardware (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/11/27/euro_bd_hddvd_sales_stats/)

[tigger]

Looks like blue ray might win then.300 is a great film,the 300 were a suicide squad if you didnt know.

[Xaser04]

Hopefully I will be picking up planet Earth on blu-ray shortly. It was epic when it was on TV. Should be even better in hi-def.

[Ravenas]

Blu-ray is the better player; it would be sad to see the better player loose (that just hurts us as consumers). Grats Sony.

[kwchang007]

Hopefully this means the end of all this crap between two formats. And hopefully after Christmas HD-DVD will back down if Blu-ray keeps selling this well.

[Ravenas]

Hopefully this means the end of all this crap between two formats. And hopefully after Christmas HD-DVD will back down if Blu-ray keeps selling this well.

I wouldn't be surprised if either of them never died lol...

[kwchang007]

I wouldn't be surprised if either of them never died lol...

How much would that suck.

[Ravenas]

How much would that suck.

:laugh:

Just as much as having to decide wether to get a PC, a Xbox 360, a PS3, or a Wii (or any other gaming format) for your gaming needs.

:toast:

[F-22]

Doesn't bother me much. I think buying movies is a waste anyway. Most of my BD, HD DVDs, I've only watched one time since I bought them. Netflix FTW!

[WarEagleAU]

Wont matter to me who wins, stays or goes. So long as their respective burners and media drop down to affordable prices (think roughly 50 bucks higher than DVD burners with LS today and about 5 dollars more than cake boxes of DVD media today.)

[EastCoasthandle]

That article is a bit misleading, its not on all HDM movies but the most popular (this is why they are stating 300). Other then that it's a complete stalemate (as reported before). Therefore, it's safe to say that the majority of PS3 solds are used as gaming machines.
Here let me prove it (per the article, which I think isn't 100% accurate):

97,332 HD DVD players sold in Europe, 369,863 movies were sold. That's an attach rate of 3.8
1,666,667 Blu-ray players sold in Europe, 1mill movies were sold. That's an attach rate of 0.59

What does that mean? For every HD sold they are buying at least 3 to 4 movies for it. I believe I mentioned something similar to this in another thread. For every PS3 sold 1 out of every 3.5 PS3 owners will buy buy 1 BR movie (this is not an accurate depiction of buying trend only an explanation in the gap between players and movies sold). This trend has been going on since BR entered the market and there is no sign of it changing at all. In other words 1,666,667 BR players sold (PS3), 1mill movies were sold. That leaves 666,667 movies that wasn't sold.

[hacker111]

sales are up sounds very interesting...and it's a surprise that the blue rays are out selling the HD DVDS...good for sony.

[lemonadesoda]

Lies, damn lies and zek statistics.

This type of marketing spin should be punishable by torture.

[effmaster]

You can clearly see the bias in Zek's article. Normally its hard to see the bias in an article but this one is easier to see than others.

[Ravenas]

Some people can't accept the facts. :laugh:

[effmaster]

And lets not forget the fact that its complete Bullshit that PS3 owners have bought on average 12 PS3 games per PS3 console so this article is not truthful in the least bit except for the fact that the attachement rate for HD DVD is higher than Blu Ray when it comes to movies sold per player.

[EastCoasthandle]

I don't think it's fair to blame Zek he's only reporting the news not writing it.

[effmaster]

I don't think it's fair to blame Zek he's only reporting the news not writing it.

Well no offense to Zek about what I said BUT PERSONALLY I don't want to have a really biased article in the news section does that seem any clearer now?

[EastCoasthandle]

Well no offense to Zek about what I said BUT PERSONALLY I don't want to have a really biased article in the news section does that seem any clearer now?

If an issue like this is so offensive to you (and the tone in your posts show it) it's better to just not read/respond to it. You run the risk of take your frustration out on the wrong person(s).

[effmaster]

If an issue like this is so offensive to you (and the tone in your posts show it) it's better to just not read/respond to it. You run the risk of take your frustration out on the wrong person(s).

Im sorry if my posts sounded like I was attacking Zek I wasnt really tryiong to attack him don't ask me why, Im really tired right now. I was really just refferring to the source as I really don't think that the person who made that article was on a neutral side rather I think that he is on more of a blu side. Again sorry if I was attacking you Zek Im sorry

[Davidelmo]

And yet HD sales as a total pale in comparison to DVD

Seriously, no-one in the UK cares at all. For the vast majority of people, watching a DVD is just fine on their ~40 inch TV. The difference between DVD and HD=DVD/BluRay just isn't huge enough to warrant spending £600 on a BluRay player.

I think neither format will "win." Both will continue to lag behind ordinary DVD sales until they are both cheap enough to co-exist.

[v-zero]

The difference between DVD and HD=DVD/BluRay just isn't huge enough to warrant spending £600 on a BluRay player.

The difference is like night and day!

As for this stupid format feud, I hope HD-DVD wins, it's the better format and will be best for the consumer over time... Anything with a Sony design arrives tarnished.:wtf:

[Kreij]

Zek !!!

Where is your journalistic integrity?
What ever happened to verifying sources?
How can you reprint these manipulated statistics?

Off to your room and no moonpies for a month ! :D

[Davidelmo]

The difference is like night and day!

No it isn't!

Not compared to the difference between VHS and DVD.
Not at "across the room" distance on a 30 to 40 inch TV either


When considering DVD vs VHS, don't forget the improved functionality. You don't have to fast forward or rewind. You can skip chapters, not wear out the tape, etc etc etc. Those were all selling points of DVD vs VHS.

Where is the super selling point of any HD format? It's basically a DVD with better quality. That difference is not worth £600. It's not even worth £200 for the cheapest HD DVD player.

Maybe when TVs larger than 40 inches become more common will the demand for HD increase.

My parents were in a shop and could barely tell the difference when standing right in front of the TV. It was a proper demonstration with two TV's right next to each other. One playing a DVD and the other playing an HD DVD.

If ANY HD format wants to win it will have to get ordinary people like my parents buying a HD DVD player. At the moment it is younger, more technological people who are slightly interested, but the majority of the market and the measure of success is based on getting HD formats into everyday homes. That is a LONG way off IMO.

[zekrahminator]

Looks like blue ray might win then.300 is a great film,the 300 were a suicide squad if you didnt know.

Aw man you ruined the ending :(

:roll:.

[Easy Rhino]

from the article...

The figures were published by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) but produced by independent market watcher GfK. The two numbers don't quite synchronise: the total number of discs purchased are sales to date, but the percentage comes from disc sales since this time last year. But though Blu-ray Discs have been technically on sale longer than that, the year-to-date figure almost certainly so far outweighs disc sales up the the end of 4 November 2006 that the percentage isn't likely to be that far out.

From which we can conclude that around 1,369,863 high-definition discs have been purchased in the last 12 months, of which 369,863 were HD DVDs, less than a third of the total.

so unless you guys can find another independent study with different numbers you pretty much have to assume these are numbers accurate.

on another note, ive noticed just about every retailer gives equal space to HD DVD and blu-ray.

[zekrahminator]

Well no offense to Zek about what I said BUT PERSONALLY I don't want to have a really biased article in the news section does that seem any clearer now?

Alright, alright, hold up a minute.


What bias are you talking about? I said I favored 300, not either one of the formats. I can find five independent movie reviews in the next ten minutes that agree with me that 300 is an extremely awesome movie. If it really bothers you that much, I'll change it to "the extremely successful movie 300." However, little unrelated things like that keep the news section interesting, in my opinion, and separate TPU from the other sites that only throw in PRs and "company X sues company Y" type garbage :).

[v-zero]

No it isn't!

But it is, even on 30-40 inch screens it is noticeable, you simply can't argue your point here because it's completely invalid. There is a huge difference between HD and SD material, really massive - I can't watch DVDs on my HD screens anymore because I know how much better it can be. Not only that but the audio too is much improved, better than the cinema by far.

As for the "it's not like the difference between VHS and DVD" argument, that's not a valid comparison. Back then we were considering the difference it made moving from analogue to digital storage, now we are talking about higher resolutions and bitrates, as well as improved encoding technology.

[effmaster]

Alright, alright, hold up a minute.


What bias are you talking about? I said I favored 300, not either one of the formats. I can find five independent movie reviews in the next ten minutes that agree with me that 300 is an extremely awesome movie. If it really bothers you that much, I'll change it to "the extremely successful movie 300." However, little unrelated things like that keep the news section interesting, in my opinion, and separate TPU from the other sites that only throw in PRs and "company X sues company Y" type garbage :).

Don't play dumb Zek you know full well what I mean. The fact that the article in the link states that there is an attach rate of 12 Blu-Ray discs per player is just plain bullshit, you know it and I know it.

[Dr. Spankenstein]

Simma down now!!!

[Ravenas]

Don't play dumb Zek you know full well what I mean. The fact that the article in the link states that there is an attach rate of 12 Blu-Ray discs per player is just plain bullshit, you know it and I know it.

You really need to calm down :laugh:

Furthermore, how would know?

Lastly, it may be true. Every time you buy a Blu-Ray player you get 5-15 free (I've seen offers of anywhere from 5 to 15 free) Blu-Ray movies, plus whatever other Blu-Ray movies you buy before you get the "free" movies in the mail. The new 40gb PS3 comes with a free Blu-Ray movie itself. It becomes very easy to believe this may be true. What's more, I have 6 Blu-Ray movies right now and I don't even have a damn HDTV (I just bought my PS3 Friday, so there's a 6 attachment rate). If I had a HDTV I would probably have 12 ;)

My advice to you, don't just assume something is false just because YOU can't BELIEVE that this could be happening.
:wtf:

[effmaster]

You really need to calm down :laugh:

Furthermore, how would know?

Lastly, it may be true. Every time you buy a Blu-Ray player you get 5-15 free (I've seen offers of anywhere from 5 to 15 free) Blu-Ray movies, plus whatever other Blu-Ray movies you buy before you get the "free" movies in the mail. The new 40gb PS3 comes with a free Blu-Ray movie itself. It becomes very easy to believe this may be true. What's more, I have 6 Blu-Ray movies right now and I don't even have a damn HDTV (I just bought my PS3 Friday, so there's a 6 attachment rate). If I had a HDTV I would probably have 12 ;)

My advice to you, don't just assume something is false just because YOU can't BELIEVE that this could be happening.
:wtf:

HD DVD gives out 5 free HD DVDs with every purchase same as Blu Ray and the highest I have ever heard for free movies for Blu Ray was 5 free with each purchase so then why would the attachment rate for HD DVD be 3.8. Does that ring any bells now?:slap:

And also just so you know it says that there is an attach rate of 12 GAMES per PS3 in the articles link which we can all agree is false It isnt even refferring to movies

[Ravenas]

HD DVD gives out 5 free HD DVDs with every purchase same as Blu Ray and the highest I have ever heard for free movies for Blu Ray was 5 free with each purchase so then why would the attachment rate for HD DVD be 3.8. Does that ring any bells now?:slap:

And also just so you know it says that there is an attach rate of 12 GAMES per PS3 in the articles link which we can all agree is false It isnt even refferring to movies

Yes, but that's an AVERAGE. They're not saying each person buys 12 games, they're saying with those numbers, that's what the average is however some people are buying more games than others.

[PVTCaboose1337]

Ya blu-ray... I am going to get one on the drives when they become cheap for the blue laser!

[kwchang007]

HD DVD gives out 5 free HD DVDs with every purchase same as Blu Ray and the highest I have ever heard for free movies for Blu Ray was 5 free with each purchase so then why would the attachment rate for HD DVD be 3.8. Does that ring any bells now?:slap:

And also just so you know it says that there is an attach rate of 12 GAMES per PS3 in the articles link which we can all agree is false It isnt even refferring to movies

Maybe some idiots don't know about it or HD DVD doesn't push that.

As far as games that totally concerns this, if PS3 games sell well that means Blu-ray has to live so it doesn't matter if it loses in movies, there will always be Blu-ray media out.

[effmaster]

Yes, but that's an AVERAGE. They're not saying each person buys 12 games, they're saying with those numbers, that's what the average is however some people are buying more games than others.

Sure but then the vast majority i.e more than 50 % of them are buying more than 12 games for their PS3 I thought that the PS3 was lagging behind in both software and hardware sales at least here in the U.S. Last I checked the attach rate here in the U.S. was maybe 2 games per PS3 not 12 or more on average.

[Ravenas]

Sure but then the vast majority i.e more than 50 % of them are buying more than 12 games for their PS3 I thought that the PS3 was lagging behind in both software and hardware sales at least here in the U.S. Last I checked the attach rate here in the U.S. was maybe 2 games per PS3 not 12 or more on average.

I currently have 5 games, but I'm a single player junky (mostly because my internet sucks). This article is also referring to Europe, so the U.S. sales aren't in question.

[effmaster]

I currently have 5 games, but I'm a single player junky (mostly because my internet sucks). This article is also referring to Europe, so the U.S. sales aren't in question.

Then maybe they are referring to game rentals because I just cant see very many people buying 12 $60 games in Europe since March 2007 currently after all 60 Euros is worth more than what the U.S. dollar is

[Easy Rhino]

Then maybe they are referring to game rentals because I just cant see very many people buying 12 $60 games in Europe since March 2007 currently after all 60 Euros is worth more than what the U.S. dollar is

yea, that seems a bit out of the ordinary. i bet most ps3 owners bought 6 games all year. and then maybe a small percentage bought more than 10 games.

[zekrahminator]

Don't play dumb Zek you know full well what I mean. The fact that the article in the link states that there is an attach rate of 12 Blu-Ray discs per player is just plain bullshit, you know it and I know it.

...No, I don't. I'm not responsible for making sales figures, all I do is report them. If you have an issue with the guys that made the sales figures, take it up with them.

[effmaster]

...No, I don't. I'm not responsible for making sales figures, all I do is report them. If you have an issue with the guys that made the sales figures, take it up with them.

Do you beleive everything that the article states Zek? Because if you don't then why did you put it in the news section

[Easy Rhino]

why does this article offend so many people? sure, zek put a little bit of bias into his writeup, but he didnt make up the numbers. if you have an issue with numbers take it up with the author of the article and leave zek alone!!!

[zekrahminator]

Yeah guys, I've got two school projects to bullshit and customs forms to fill out, leave me be.

[Wile E]

But it is, even on 30-40 inch screens it is noticeable, you simply can't argue your point here because it's completely invalid. There is a huge difference between HD and SD material, really massive - I can't watch DVDs on my HD screens anymore because I know how much better it can be. Not only that but the audio too is much improved, better than the cinema by far.

As for the "it's not like the difference between VHS and DVD" argument, that's not a valid comparison. Back then we were considering the difference it made moving from analogue to digital storage, now we are talking about higher resolutions and bitrates, as well as improved encoding technology.I agree 100%. I used to think my DVDs upconverted to 720p looked great, but then I bought my HD-DVD add on, and the difference was amazing. The difference was even more substantial if I compared HD DVD to a DVD that wasn't upconverted.

I would absolutely say the picture quality difference is comparable to the difference between VHS and DVD.

[Xaser04]

And yet HD sales as a total pale in comparison to DVD

Seriously, no-one in the UK cares at all. For the vast majority of people, watching a DVD is just fine on their ~40 inch TV. The difference between DVD and HD=DVD/BluRay just isn't huge enough to warrant spending £600 on a BluRay player.

I think neither format will "win." Both will continue to lag behind ordinary DVD sales until they are both cheap enough to co-exist.

Where in the world are you getting your prices from. You are aware that the PS3 is a blu-ray player arn't you and it can be bought for £300 (or less if you look around).

The difference in picture quality between a DVD movie and the same movie on Blu-ray is easily apparent. I fail to see how you couldn't see the difference between the two especially if they were playing next to one another.

Whether its worth the money is subjective.

[Xaser04]

Sorry my manual quoting didn't work there. I think its just about clear what I was trying to say

(I can't edit my own posts so if a mod could kindly change the - to a = that would be great.

[EastCoasthandle]

Here is another article (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4431&Itemid=1) that echoes my previous post.

Blu-ray still lags behind in standalone player sales

HD DVD reached another milestone today as they have sold over 750,000 standalone and Xbox 360 external HD DVD players, while the Blu-ray camp continues to lag behind with standalone player numbers believed to be between 400,000 – 500,000 total units sold. However, if you count the over 2 million Playstation 3 gaming consoles as Blu-ray players, the Blue-ray camp still has quite a lead, but HD DVD is narrowing the gap. Many industry observers feel that that counting Playstation 3 units as Blu-ray players is misleading, as many PS3 owners are not playing Blu-ray movies on their PS3 units and use them strictly for gaming.

Toshiba also announced the release of new firmware for its third generation HD DVD players. The new 1.3 firmware is available for the HD-A30, HD-A3, HD-D3, and the HD-A35. The new firmware is said to improve network connectivity for the download of Web-enabled content from some titles, improvements to video and audio with some titles, and most importantly, it resolves some issues with HDMI/DVI compatibility experienced by some users.

While some in the industry continue to toll the bell for the death of HD DVD, it is clear that the HD DVD group led by Toshiba is making some progress. As things stand at the moment, reports of increased sales and rental of HD DVD titles have been reported and the HD DVD players with their lower price continue to be a hot item this holiday season. The war continues, and it isn’t over by a long shot.

Summary:
-HD has sold 750,000 stand alone players
-BR has sold between 400,000-500,000 stand alone players
-2+ mill PS3 are not dedicated players and people are not buying them to play BR movies
-HD sold at a much lower price then BR is gaining momentum.

[effmaster]

Thank you for saying that way better than I could east coast lol:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[lemonadesoda]

effmaster used the wrong words... but I think he had the right sentiment... which is:

1./ Lets keep interesting tech NEWS in NEWS

2./ Lets keep marketing spin OUT of NEWS. If you want to post it, put it in General Nonesense

3./ NEWS posters have a responsibility to make a judgement on 1. and 2. when posting

4./ MODERATORS are loved and respected. That love and respect is lost if they dont do 3.

5./ We dont want unloved unrespected MODS, so, PLEASE, do 3.

[Kreij]

2./ Lets keep marketing spin OUT of NEWS.

Good luck. Every news article that I have ever read in my life has some sort of spin to it.
So no more new tech hardware release info in NEWS?
They all have marketing spin.

[WarEagleAU]

My only question is, if this was saying it about HD-DVD, would you all be bitching and moaning to Zek about it? I personally do not think so. Maybe they inflated the numbers, maybe they didnt. Maybe they are true, who the hell cares. To get mad at something like this is preposterous. Get a life people. (No this isnt a personal attack on anyone).

[lemonadesoda]

Yes, Kreij, you cant avoid getting your shoes dirty once in a while, but for heavens sake, dont STEP in it!

[Kreij]

Yes, Kreij, you cant avoid getting your shoes dirty once in a while, but for heavens sake, dont STEP in it!

When it comes to marketing spin in news article you can't step in, you have to wade through it :D

[cjoyce1980]

facts of the article (and my 5 pence worth)

* it's the european market, not the US. we have not had these $200 HD-DVD players yet, so no war has been won. I know in the states its pretty much 50/50 at the moment with the introduction of these cheap machines, so when EU consumers get them, i guess the market will balance up.

* it's the EU market and the PS3 has done better here than it has in the states and over in the east (on market share), so with larger PS3 sales over HD-DVD player (and the 360 HD-DVD add-on) you would expect more blu-ray sales.

i do believe this article is more bias towards the blu-ray, and my own personal views are that, unless its forced upon, EU consumers then are slower adopt newer technology, thats not to say we don't like our toys, but we do get a rough deal when it comes to pricing.

currently with the PS3 at £300, its about £200 cheaper than the cheapest standalone HD-DVD player and about £300 than the cheapest standalone blu-ray player. so if you want to get into high-def the PS3 is the most affordable option in the EU

[v-zero]

currently with the PS3 at £300, its about £200 cheaper than the cheapest HD-DVD player and about £300 than the cheapest standalone blu-ray player. so if you want to get into high-def the PS3 is the most affordable option in the EU

Xbox 360 + HD-DVD < £300...

[cjoyce1980]

Xbox 360 + HD-DVD < £300...

sorry, should of stated that i meant standalone players, if you can get a 360 and a HD-DVD player for less than £300 please show me!!! i want!

[effmaster]

Yeah guys, I've got two school projects to bullshit and customs forms to fill out, leave me be.

customs forms?:confused::confused:

Do you work for the immigration office or something:laugh::laugh: