What do think is better

[Hawk1]

I use my PC mainly for gaming. My MB has issues with certain Mem dividers so I can set my FSB/Memory as follows:

1. 8x400 FSB with RAM 1:1 @3-3-3-9 timings or
2. 9x356 FSB with RAM 2:3 (1068Mhz) @4-4-4-12

Performance wise does it really make much of a difference?

Thx

[a111087]

first probably

[DR.Death]

the lower the timings the better so the first one

[Random Murderer]

try benching them both in 3dm06 and wprime.
and what bios are you on? my p5wdh doesn't have any problems with dividers...

[Hawk1]

Thanks guys. Also forgot to mention, my FSB hits a wall at about 405 (no amount of voltage change lets it pass Orthos) so I'm also stuck with around 400FSB or less.

[Random Murderer]

Thanks guys. Also forgot to mention, my FSB hits a wall at about 405 (no amount of voltage change lets it pass Orthos) so I'm also stuck with around 400FSB or less.

not sure if you've seen this thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=110193) on xs, but it helped me.

[Hawk1]

try benching them both in 3dm06 and wprime.
and what bios are you on? my p5wdh doesn't have any problems with dividers...

Thanks, will do. Also, I'm on BIOS 1707 (other than this memory divider/FSB wall, havent had any issues -RAID, BSOD etc). I hesitate to update the BIOS, just because I heard issues with the newer ones (last I checked the 2302 (I think) was absolutely horrible according to the XS thread).

[Random Murderer]

Thanks, will do. Also, I'm on BIOS 1707 (other than this memory divider/FSB wall, havent had any issues). I hesitate to update the BIOS, just because I heard issues with the newer ones (last I checked the 2306 (I think) was absolutely horrible according to the XS thread).

lol, i'm on 1707 as well.
what particular issues are you having?

[Hawk1]

lol, i'm on 1707 as well.
what particular issues are you having?

Thanks for the interest. :toast:

First off, I like my system to be around 400 - 420 FSB. Cannot get past 405. My e6600 is very happy at 8x400 w/1.275v (Bios). I have tried upping the vmch (I have a 40mm Fan on there so no heat worries) and vcore/vdimm with no luck. At 400 FSB, I will not post at DDR2 1066 (I have 1066 Ballistix Tracers). It may just be my board - I have revision 1.02g.

I'll take another stab at it, and any guidance you can provide would be great, but not too hopefull at this point. No big loss either way, as I can go to 3.6Ghz, which should be more than enough to negate any memory performance at 1066. I would have just liked to test my memory at 1:1 800 and 4:5 1000 (and 1066) and see the variance.

Thx.

[Scrizz]

go w/first one better

[DOM]

so can you get it to 3.6GHz MEM 1000Mhz at cas 4 or 5 would be better

the higher the Mhz the more write and read etc. the MEM is better at higher Mhz for me it is cuz I use less volts compare to tighter tim and its faster ;)

[Hawk1]

so can you get it to 3.6GHz MEM 1000Mhz at cas 4 or 5 would be better

the higher the Mhz the more write and read etc. the MEM is better at higher Mhz for me it is cuz I use less volts compare to tighter tim

No, I can either do 8x400 or 9x400 with memory 1:1. I can only get the memory to 1000 or 1066 if I drop the FSB to 356 or less (I tried from 370FSB and worked my way down, as none down to ~356 were 24/h stable).

[Hawk1]

Well just an fyi 3Dm06 showed not much difference when set as in post #1.

8x400 FSB RAM @800@3-3-3-9 6972 marks
9x356 FSB RAM@1066@4-4-4-12 6975 marks

So I guess for gaming it really doesn't matter - more CPU/GPU clock dependent.

[Paulieg]

Well, 3dmark is more cpu/gpu clock dependent, however, I notice smoother gameplay with tighter timings.

[Random Murderer]

Thanks for the interest. :toast:

First off, I like my system to be around 400 - 420 FSB. Cannot get past 405. My e6600 is very happy at 8x400 w/1.275v (Bios). I have tried upping the vmch (I have a 40mm Fan on there so no heat worries) and vcore/vdimm with no luck. At 400 FSB, I will not post at DDR2 1066 (I have 1066 Ballistix Tracers). It may just be my board - I have revision 1.02g.

I'll take another stab at it, and any guidance you can provide would be great, but not too hopefull at this point. No big loss either way, as I can go to 3.6Ghz, which should be more than enough to negate any memory performance at 1066. I would have just liked to test my memory at 1:1 800 and 4:5 1000 (and 1066) and see the variance.

Thx.

wow, weird, we have the exact same board and bios.:wtf:
ok, try putting your ram on the lowest divider possible, upping your fsb termination voltage one step, and then seeing how far you can push the fsb.

[Hawk1]

wow, weird, we have the exact same board and bios.:wtf:
ok, try putting your ram on the lowest divider possible, upping your fsb termination voltage one step, and then seeing how far you can push the fsb.

Yeah, thanks, I'll give it another try in the next day or so. Just fyi my current BIOS voltages at 8x400 (3-3-3-9-4 for MEM) are:

vcore 1.275
vdimm 2.25
vmch 1.65
FSB Term 1.4
vich Auto

Edit: Did some browsing on XS and this is lawrywild's quote, so not much hope for me:

"My board won't run ddr2-1066 whatever I try. I know that some do and some don't so you have to take a gamble. You can always run lower speed and tighten the timings though remember." Post #5956 (Pg 239)

Oh well.

[tzitzibp]

the idea is that all subsystems sould work in a combined manner and not in just an individual optimal setting.

the key is the fsb .... of the northbridge....


The Northbridge is the link between your CPU, memory, graphics card (PCI Express) and Southbridge .



Just like your CPU, the Northbridge on your motherboard has its own internal frequency and latencies which affect overall system stability. This is referred to as the NBCC (North Bridge Core Clock). The NBCC directly affects the performance and stability of your memory and CPU because Intel system used a NB based memory controller.
It has been recently discovered that the NBCC varies with your systems FSB and multiplier settings. The NBCC can be calculated by dividing your CPU current multiplier by its default multiplier and then multiply the sum by your FSB.

For Example:

E6600 @ 500Mhz and a 7 multiplier:

(9 / 7) x 500 = 642Mhz NBCC

So it can be seen that lowering your multiplier, even though offering addition headway for FSB on the CPU, will increase the NBCC, reduce NB stability and thus cause the overall system stability to decrease.

XE (Extreme Edition) and ES (Engineering Sample) processors have the unique ability to adjust their multipliers up (All XE, not all ES) and down (all chips) while maintaining its multiplier status as default.

For Example:

X6800 @ 500Mhz and a 7 multiplier (just like above)

(7 / 7) x 500 = 500Mhz NBCC

As you can see, the X6800 has the exact same settings as the E6600, however, the NBCC is lower, resulting in increased system stability.

Moving along, the NBCC has a series of latencies at which it operates. These latencies have considerable effect on overall system performance. The latencies within the NB increase when your NBCC hits specific values, thus increasing stability, but decreasing performance. A range of latencies that operate in specific NBCC values are referred to as straps. There is a 1066Mhz strap, 1333Mhz strap, and so on. However, the name is misleading, because motherboard engineers change the frequency at which specific straps set in. The trigger NBCC's for each range of latencies is different for all motherboards. However, you can manually test many different NBCC values by using Super Pi or a memory bandwidth test to find where the latencies within your system change.

What does this mean for our overclocking?
The classical response to an instable overclock was:

1. Increase CPU voltage.
2. Increase Memory voltage.

However, one must now consider NB voltage (stability) when system instability arises. This is especially true with Core 2 systems which are capable of far higher FSB than what the NB can handle.
So with this in mind, an Intel overclocker must be aware of:

* what strap they are in
* what part of the strap they are in

If you are at the limit of a specific strap, you will most likely find your system to be less than stable. However, increase your NBCC to the next strap and your system suddenly becomes more stable, but not as fast.

For example. The P5B Deluxe changes from the 1066Mhz strap to the 1333Mhz strap after 400Mhz. Therefore, 400Mhz on a P5B is faster, but less stable than 401Mhz.

Some motherboards, like the Intel D975XBX2 and the Abit AB9 QuadGT allow the user to manually adjust what strap they are in. This unique feature allows overclockers to maximize their experience. If you find the limit of your CPU to be around 400Mhz, you can still maintain the 1066Mhz strap and maximize your CPU's potential.


back to your question :



fsb fsb x 4 cpu Hz multipl mem. Time
original 267 1068 2403 9 400 2/3
setup 1 356 1424 3204 9 534 2/3
setup 2 400 1600 3200 8 400 1


NBCC= fsb /267 CPU mult
356 356 133,3% 3204 9
450 400 168,5% 3200 8

so the practical speed increase is 33,3% and 68,5% in each instance... the choice is yours!

hope I helped...
Ronnie

[btarunr]

1. 8x400 FSB with RAM 1:1 @3-3-3-9 timings (Lower clock, tighter timings = stability)

[Hawk1]

the idea is that all subsystems sould work in a combined manner and not in just an individual optimal setting.

the key is the fsb .... of the northbridge....


The Northbridge is the link between your CPU, memory, graphics card (PCI Express) and Southbridge .



Just like your CPU, the Northbridge on your motherboard has its own internal frequency and latencies which affect overall system stability. This is referred to as the NBCC (North Bridge Core Clock). The NBCC directly affects the performance and stability of your memory and CPU because Intel system used a NB based memory controller.
It has been recently discovered that the NBCC varies with your systems FSB and multiplier settings. The NBCC can be calculated by dividing your CPU current multiplier by its default multiplier and then multiply the sum by your FSB.

For Example:

E6600 @ 500Mhz and a 7 multiplier:

(9 / 7) x 500 = 642Mhz NBCC

So it can be seen that lowering your multiplier, even though offering addition headway for FSB on the CPU, will increase the NBCC, reduce NB stability and thus cause the overall system stability to decrease.

XE (Extreme Edition) and ES (Engineering Sample) processors have the unique ability to adjust their multipliers up (All XE, not all ES) and down (all chips) while maintaining its multiplier status as default.

For Example:

X6800 @ 500Mhz and a 7 multiplier (just like above)

(7 / 7) x 500 = 500Mhz NBCC

As you can see, the X6800 has the exact same settings as the E6600, however, the NBCC is lower, resulting in increased system stability.

Moving along, the NBCC has a series of latencies at which it operates. These latencies have considerable effect on overall system performance. The latencies within the NB increase when your NBCC hits specific values, thus increasing stability, but decreasing performance. A range of latencies that operate in specific NBCC values are referred to as straps. There is a 1066Mhz strap, 1333Mhz strap, and so on. However, the name is misleading, because motherboard engineers change the frequency at which specific straps set in. The trigger NBCC's for each range of latencies is different for all motherboards. However, you can manually test many different NBCC values by using Super Pi or a memory bandwidth test to find where the latencies within your system change.

What does this mean for our overclocking?
The classical response to an instable overclock was:

1. Increase CPU voltage.
2. Increase Memory voltage.

However, one must now consider NB voltage (stability) when system instability arises. This is especially true with Core 2 systems which are capable of far higher FSB than what the NB can handle.
So with this in mind, an Intel overclocker must be aware of:

* what strap they are in
* what part of the strap they are in

If you are at the limit of a specific strap, you will most likely find your system to be less than stable. However, increase your NBCC to the next strap and your system suddenly becomes more stable, but not as fast.

For example. The P5B Deluxe changes from the 1066Mhz strap to the 1333Mhz strap after 400Mhz. Therefore, 400Mhz on a P5B is faster, but less stable than 401Mhz.

Some motherboards, like the Intel D975XBX2 and the Abit AB9 QuadGT allow the user to manually adjust what strap they are in. This unique feature allows overclockers to maximize their experience. If you find the limit of your CPU to be around 400Mhz, you can still maintain the 1066Mhz strap and maximize your CPU's potential.


back to your question :






so the practical speed increase is 33,3% and 68,5% in each instance... the choice is yours!

hope I helped...
Ronnie


All I can say is WOW.:eek:

Tikannis from Canada (don't know much else, but I try), and thank you for that information.

What a first post, and welcome to TPU:toast:

[snuif09]

i should go for the first or the one with the best superpi score

[Hawk1]

i should go for the first or the one with the best superpi score

He's saying the overall speed increase is better with 8x400 setting, so go with that one for total system performance. For specific benchmarks (ie everest memory etc), the other one will be better.

[GSG-9]

I use my PC mainly for gaming. My MB has issues with certain Mem dividers so I can set my FSB/Memory as follows:

1. 8x400 FSB with RAM 1:1 @3-3-3-9 timings or
2. 9x356 FSB with RAM 2:3 (1068Mhz) @4-4-4-12

Performance wise does it really make much of a difference?

Thx

I say run Everst by lavalys (You can find it via google) and compare your results and then you will KNOW which one is faster. :toast:

[JrRacinFan]

I use my PC mainly for gaming. My MB has issues with certain Mem dividers so I can set my FSB/Memory as follows:

1. 8x400 FSB with RAM 1:1 @3-3-3-9 timings or
2. 9x356 FSB with RAM 2:3 (1068Mhz) @4-4-4-12

Performance wise does it really make much of a difference?

Thx

Are both of these using the same RAM voltages?

I say 1st one due to the higher FSB.

[Hawk1]

Are both of these using the same RAM voltages?

I say 1st one due to the higher FSB.

CL 3 requires .05 more volts (2.25vdimm) vs. 1066 CL4 @2.2 (stock rated v). I have a spotcool blowing over them, so heat shouldnt be a problem.

Yeah, I think the consensus is the higher FSB will be better as far as gaming goes. 1066 memory would be good for certain benchmarks, but for overall performance I'll go with the 400FSB.

[tzitzibp]

Tikannis from Canada (don't know much else, but I try), and thank you for that information.

What a first post, and welcome to TPU:toast:[/QUOTE]

poly kala!

by the way the solution to your problem is probably somewhere in the middle...

eg 375 x 8 @ 3ghz and mem 900mhz

[tzitzibp]

hi Hawk,

any tests done...? any results ?
just curious!:cool:

[Hawk1]

hi Hawk,

any tests done...? any results ?
just curious!:cool:

Nah, other than the 3dmark I ran (which showed no difference), Christmas and other functions has kept me pretty busy from tweaking/doing other tests. Hopefully this weekend (although I have 2 parties to go to so maybe not).

[allen337]

Up that mch voltage hawk1 the 1066 is going to be faster (more bandwidth) Im running my ddr2 1066 with 1.7-1.75 mch @ ddr2 1200 2.3-2.4 vdimm timings are 5-5-4-10. ALLEN