Should I Get a 8800GT or a HD3870?

[tkpenalty]

So hello guys, its about that time of year that I'm going to upgrade one part of my PC. That is the GPU. My X1950PRO at the moment seems to not like me anymore, having several problems occasionally, moreover this upgrade is more convenient for me (undisclosed details).

Anyway out of the two...

GV-NX88T512HP
http://www.tcmagazine.com/images/news/Hardware/Gigabyte_GV-NX88t512HP_01.jpg
GV-RX387512H
http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stories/2007/November/General%20News/gigabyte_gv_rx295p512.jpg

Note its a CHOICE between the two, I will not deviate into purchasing other HD3870/8800GT from other manufacturers; reference PCB ftl.

So guys... out of the two which one?

***** Please consider *****
-Faliure rate, please do not account this while making a desicion
-Length of GPU, and how much space I have in my case
-The fact that I will immediately rip off the VF700ALCU and install an AcceleroS1
-The fact that both are non reference designs so VRM issues are not supposed to be considered
-Take how much it costs out of the equation.

I will NOT deviate from the two i repeat again... just choose one

[Duffman]

only one pic?

i also thought you decided on an 8800GT?

[Wile E]

Before I answer, I have to ask a few questions. Can we suggest other brands? If so, what's you price range? Do you like using AA?

[tkpenalty]

Before I answer, I have to ask a few questions. Can we suggest other brands? If so, what's you price range? Do you like using AA?

Nup only these two models, other brands are inferior in every other aspect. I've done my research, just choose [/ignore AA question]

[wolf]

8800ftw

[Kursah]

I'd say if you have to choose now, due to the failure rate of 8800gt's that it's more of a gamble than the 3870's which, while slower on some fronts, are more dependable. That's my views and opinions though. To those that dislike what I have to say, go to any tech thread's vid section, including this one and search for 8800gt's artifacting out of the box among other issues that should've been solved after that first shipment. They're great cards, I have a buddy who's running 2 in SLI without any issues at all...he highly recommends them, but even agrees that he took a gamble and that the 3870's are more dependable. Both are good cards, you really can't go wrong with both, but the odds of having to RMA one the same day you install it is definately increased with one of the choices...and we all know RMA is not quick in a "want it now" world! :D

Just food for thought! :toast:

[tkpenalty]

I'd say if you have to choose now, due to the failure rate of 8800gt's that it's more of a gamble than the 3870's which, while slower on some fronts, are more dependable. That's my views and opinions though. To those that dislike what I have to say, go to any tech thread's vid section, including this one and search for 8800gt's artifacting out of the box among other issues that should've been solved after that first shipment. They're great cards, I have a buddy who's running 2 in SLI without any issues at all...he highly recommends them, but even agrees that he took a gamble and that the 3870's are more dependable. Both are good cards, you really can't go wrong with both, but the odds of having to RMA one the same day you install it is definately increased with one of the choices...and we all know RMA is not quick in a "want it now" world! :D

Just food for thought! :toast:

Realise this, we are talking about two non-reference GPUs here, the 8800GTs from gigabyte don't have a high faliure rate, thanks to four phases instead of the three you find on the reference design. So take faliure rate out of the equation, I am not using a reference design GPU at the moment so its totally irrelevant.

[Wile E]

Nup only these two models, other brands are inferior in every other aspect. I've done my research, just choose [/ignore AA question]No, Palit, Gainward, and Xpert Vision all have non-reference designs, with upgraded cooling and 3-phase power. (They're all actually made by the same manufacturer)That's why I was asking.

Here's the Palit model: http://www.palit.biz/en/products/nv_pcie_8800GT-Sonic.htm#spec

[Wile E]

Realise this, we are talking about two non-reference GPUs here, the 8800GTs from gigabyte don't have a high faliure rate, thanks to four phases instead of the three you find on the reference design. So take faliure rate out of the equation, I am not using a reference design GPU at the moment so its totally irrelevant.Standard 8800GT has 2 phase. Gigabyte and the ones I mentioned are 3 phase. Unless you are counting the vmem phase as well.

[tkpenalty]

As I said, don't try to deviate from these two.

[tkpenalty]

Okay now I'd like a reason to your choice :)

[Wile E]

As I said, don't try to deviate from these two.I think you are using flawed logic. The vregs and ram on the GB aren't even cooled, and it only has vf-700 for cooling.

You still haven't answered the Anti Aliasing question.

[tkpenalty]

I think you are using flawed logic. The vregs and ram on the GB aren't even cooled, and it only has vf-700 for cooling, but whatever, suit yourself.

You still haven't answered the Anti Aliasing question.

Flawed logic? Not really, I've already tested both the cards, those arent vregs, but mosfets. No they dont run warm, the memory, only slightly. (Samsung RAM modules ftw).

[Wile E]

Flawed logic? Not really, I've already tested both the cards, those arent vregs, but mosfets. No they dont run warm, the memory, only slightly. (Samsung RAM modules ftw).The Palits have 1.0ns Samsung as well. And the ram and fets are sinked.

But all technicalities aside, you still need to answer the AA question for me to pick. It weighs heavily on my decision. And the price difference of the cards, now that I think of it.

[tkpenalty]

The Palits have 1.0ns Samsung as well. And the ram and fets are sinked.

But all technicalities aside, you still need to answer the AA question for me to pick. It weighs heavily on my decision. And the price difference of the cards, now that I think of it.

Read, ignore the price factor. Yes I will be using AA for sure. I NEVER game without AA.

[Wile E]

Read, ignore the price factor. Yes I will be using AA for sure. I NEVER game without AA.Didn't catch your edit.

8800GT, hands down. As soon as the AA is enabled, it walks away from the DX10 ATI cards.

[tkpenalty]

So guys? Vote please.

[marsey99]

g92 pwns rv670 with aa on.

[erocker]

Wow, a bunch of votes and no comments?! The 8800GT all the way, break your mold and get a Palit.;) Though I do like the Gigabyte card as well.

[tkpenalty]

*is about to burst out laughing*

Hmm... votes and comments please!

[tkpenalty]

Oh yeah by the way, if the 8800 wins and i get it, there will be a 8 series clubhouse as well. So... I'll have two clubhouses... one HD3k and one 8 series (I didnt like the 7 series at all so I'm not bothering with supporting the 7 series GPUs).

[wolf]

get the 8800 so i can join the clubhouse, and cos it prawns the 3870, aa on or off.

[Darknova]

To be honest I think you've already made your decision in the Clubhouse (read "More frames on an 8800 plz) so what was the point in this thread?

If all you are after is performance then the 8800 is by no contest the winner, and you seem to be ignoring everything that makes the 3870 good (read, price). So this thread is totally pointless.

[tkpenalty]

Please vote and provide reasons.

[allen337]

I vote 3870, amd needs the money;)

[miamimuscleboy]

unless your ready to crossfire the 3870's get an 8800 gts 512 preferably the msi o'cd version at 740 core, it whips the 3870 single (*I have a gainward 8800gts512 GLH and 2900's crossfired so Im not a fan of either one but benchmarks on my system and most unbiased review sites will show you the g92 one card whips anything ati has right now in single gpu configuration . I have to run 2 2900's to beat a single 8800gts in crysis maxed out only by 5 or 10 fps faster !

[DaMulta]

Ummm Palit 8800GT 1GB it's 20 dollars more than the 512 cards, and has WAY BETTER COOLING> The review that I seen it's twice as cool as the normal 8800GTs.

That's if you have the funds for that, other wise the 3870 card.

[tkpenalty]

Read: Installing AcceleroS1.

I'm not going to deviate from either. Its one or another, let me suffer if you think its bad.

[Tatty_One]

I'd say if you have to choose now, due to the failure rate of 8800gt's that it's more of a gamble than the 3870's which, while slower on some fronts, are more dependable. That's my views and opinions though. To those that dislike what I have to say, go to any tech thread's vid section, including this one and search for 8800gt's artifacting out of the box among other issues that should've been solved after that first shipment. They're great cards, I have a buddy who's running 2 in SLI without any issues at all...he highly recommends them, but even agrees that he took a gamble and that the 3870's are more dependable. Both are good cards, you really can't go wrong with both, but the odds of having to RMA one the same day you install it is definately increased with one of the choices...and we all know RMA is not quick in a "want it now" world! :D

Just food for thought! :toast:

Whats this failure rate? I have had 5 (currently have 4 on the go), non have failed, 3 different brands, Asus, BFG and Palit.

[freeboy]

I voted the 8800, fast, great value, a little loud but easily modded

[leonard_222003]

I will vote but without taking your reasons in consideration because that points to 8800GT.
So
1. 3870 is cheaper
2. with each driver performance increases
3. Nvidia cheats a lot in games i have mysfelf a 8800GTS 320mb and seen a lot of problems
with games (remeber crysis :laugh: )
4.games not working until some patches and drivers that comes to late or never the most recent being COH opposing fronts crashing because of the video card tried an old ATI x800 worked no problem with this damn 8800GTS crashes in 2-5 min and another problem being NFS Pro Street again very bad performance no matter the resolution or quality the game worked very very bad until 1.1 patch that locked the framerate to 30 FPS not much but at least i could play it now this is just some games that i play don't know about other hunderds games that probably have problems like this ones and they aren't 2 games that no one knows about.
5.i don't consider AA an option on 8800GT in heavy graphics games like crysis and other hevay UT3 engine games tests on review sites showed that framerate plumeted to unreasonable 30-40 fps in SHOOTERS that requiere 60+ fps if you want to survive in a multiplayer or play a decent single player game so the advantage of AA it's 0 if you can't use it in modern games and if you have something that let's you activate AA and still have 60 fps that game probably works on 3870 with AA also so no advantage just braghing.
You play crysis with 4xaa and high quality and i play with a 3870 no AA and i bet you that i will win in multiplayer every time so where is AA applied in games that 3870 can handle too ?
6.failure rate can be atributed to the GPU itself not necesarly to other things like 2 phase power 3 phase power i read on fudzilla that they have problems making this GPU so when they come artifacting it can be from memory or the gpu itsfelf that you could put it on a 3 phase pcb and still it's bad.
7.if you are one of those people that want to save the earth 3870 is the card to go in IDLE the consumption is lower than the 8800GT and i bet you that you don't game 100% of your time on the computer i say this beacause in full load 3870 consumes slitgly more but taking in consideration that most of the time the graphic card is in IDLE mode (surfing , watching movies ...etc.) than you know wich card consumes more.
8.in Crossfire 3870 scales better than 8800GT so better that makes them equal in performance (lose in some win in some games ).
9.better video quality for the 3870 no matter how much they steal from ati/amd nvidia still is far from the quality of ATI in video and the comfort to see a movie and here is an example.In my room i still have an old analog TV and when i had an ATI x800 i had the theater mode option when i wanted to see a movie on the TV i just launched the movie and on the TV it was full screen extended on the computer i just put it in a corner and if i wanted i could let the movie play on the TV for someone else in the room and me i could surf the net.Not possible on the Nvidia video cards i couldn't even make it work on the TV only black and white it can be made with the option to exetnd desktop but screens can pop on the other screen the image can't be made big extended like on the x800 and TV tool doesn;t work anymore so no option on the Nvidia video card unless you have a plasma/LCD tv and then i don;t know wich is better but i still incline on the 3870 based on my experience.
10.Nvidia cheats even in video tests http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2777&Itemid=34
i was used to game cheating but even in video tests that is very very lame
11. DX10.1 nvidia says that helps no one and theyr lackey's from crytek agree what a shock but some 1 month frome those statments news about 3dmark 2008 surface and something about a DX10.1 test that Nvidia can't do it so if this DX10.1 is something not so cool why is it 3dmark 2008 make's it and why Nvidia can't do it ? well with 3870 you can't go wrong

I could go on and on and on with a lot of reasons not to buy an 8800GT but it's your choice and i think you already made that choice from the first post or you are paid by nvidia to influence people here knowing the techpowerup was a more ATI pro forum but it's pointless with Nvidia fanboy's arguments about 1-10% performance over 3870.The reason this is pointless is because when a 3870 can't have the computing power to render a game decently be sure that neigther 8800GT can't do it.
If you want proof go see these cards on friends computers never believe tests made on websites that are paid thousands of $ for banners of video cards on their sites and probably paid by even nvidia for a favorable review(you know the drill don't uppset the sponsors they are the hand that feeds you).

[Tatty_One]

I voted for the 8800GT, apart from the fact that I have several, just to balance things, I bought a HD3870 the day it was released, both excellent cards, the HD3870 is a bit cheaper, that may change soon though with all this pile of stuff NVidia has on it's way but as of now, the 8800GT is faster across the board and across the benches (not saying the 3870 does not match it on one or two) but the 8800GT is SIGNIFICANTLY faster when, as some have said, AA is enabled.

The 3870 may well improve with driver releases and the gap may well close but history suggests, even when that happened with the 2900XT, it still under performed for such a powerful card when AA was enabled. If you want single card performance, there can be only one answer, otherwise.....if your broke and dont like AA.....go for the 3870

[Tatty_One]

@ Leonard....there actually have been NO performance improvements in the 2 driver releases since the HD3870 was released, in fact in Crysis performance has DECREASED with the last 2 releases, people ar going back to the Crysis "hotfix" drivers as recent updates have been so poor in relation to that particular game.

30-40fps is smooth and excellent in any game, it's when it goes below 30 you start to suffer.

3D Mark 2008 will not test DX10.1.....just DX10. http://www.pureoverclock.com/story1546.html

He does not want to go XFire at this time, although you are right, at the moment ATi scalability is better in multi card setups.

[leonard_222003]

How do you know that ? i see you have 1 MSI 8800GTS video card the new one and 1 palit 8800GT 1GB video card super+ version.WOW we should really trust you.Maybe ATI doesn't cheat as much as Nvidia and see what happens when the timedemo used for benchmark isn't the default one.Some people tried it on guru3d and the result wasn't good for Nvidia practicly they are even in high quality mode.Sure believe that default test that Nvidia tweaked to death and see how bad the framerate still is when you actually play the game in spite the so called optimization (for the benchmark not game )
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/472/10/
look for the high quality test

[tkpenalty]

I will vote but without taking your reasons in consideration because that points to 8800GT.
So
1. 3870 is cheaper
2. with each driver performance increases
3. Nvidia cheats a lot in games i have mysfelf a 8800GTS 320mb and seen a lot of problems
with games (remeber crysis :laugh: )
4.games not working until some patches and drivers that comes to late or never the most recent being COH opposing fronts crashing because of the video card tried an old ATI x800 worked no problem with this damn 8800GTS crashes in 2-5 min and another problem being NFS Pro Street again very bad performance no matter the resolution or quality the game worked very very bad until 1.1 patch that locked the framerate to 30 FPS not much but at least i could play it now this is just some games that i play don't know about other hunderds games that probably have problems like this ones and they aren't 2 games that no one knows about.
5.i don't consider AA an option on 8800GT in heavy graphics games like crysis and other hevay UT3 engine games tests on review sites showed that framerate plumeted to unreasonable 30-40 fps in SHOOTERS that requiere 60+ fps if you want to survive in a multiplayer or play a decent single player game so the advantage of AA it's 0 if you can't use it in modern games and if you have something that let's you activate AA and still have 60 fps that game probably works on 3870 with AA also so no advantage just braghing.
You play crysis with 4xaa and high quality and i play with a 3870 no AA and i bet you that i will win in multiplayer every time so where is AA applied in games that 3870 can handle too ?
6.failure rate can be atributed to the GPU itself not necesarly to other things like 2 phase power 3 phase power i read on fudzilla that they have problems making this GPU so when they come artifacting it can be from memory or the gpu itsfelf that you could put it on a 3 phase pcb and still it's bad.
7.if you are one of those people that want to save the earth 3870 is the card to go in IDLE the consumption is lower than the 8800GT and i bet you that you don't game 100% of your time on the computer i say this beacause in full load 3870 consumes slitgly more but taking in consideration that most of the time the graphic card is in IDLE mode (surfing , watching movies ...etc.) than you know wich card consumes more.
8.in Crossfire 3870 scales better than 8800GT so better that makes them equal in performance (lose in some win in some games ).
9.better video quality for the 3870 no matter how much they steal from ati/amd nvidia still is far from the quality of ATI in video and the comfort to see a movie and here is an example.In my room i still have an old analog TV and when i had an ATI x800 i had the theater mode option when i wanted to see a movie on the TV i just launched the movie and on the TV it was full screen extended on the computer i just put it in a corner and if i wanted i could let the movie play on the TV for someone else in the room and me i could surf the net.Not possible on the Nvidia video cards i couldn't even make it work on the TV only black and white it can be made with the option to exetnd desktop but screens can pop on the other screen the image can't be made big extended like on the x800 and TV tool doesn;t work anymore so no option on the Nvidia video card unless you have a plasma/LCD tv and then i don;t know wich is better but i still incline on the 3870 based on my experience.
10.Nvidia cheats even in video tests http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2777&Itemid=34
i was used to game cheating but even in video tests that is very very lame
11. DX10.1 nvidia says that helps no one and theyr lackey's from crytek agree what a shock but some 1 month frome those statments news about 3dmark 2008 surface and something about a DX10.1 test that Nvidia can't do it so if this DX10.1 is something not so cool why is it 3dmark 2008 make's it and why Nvidia can't do it ? well with 3870 you can't go wrong

I could go on and on and on with a lot of reasons not to buy an 8800GT but it's your choice and i think you already made that choice from the first post or you are paid by nvidia to influence people here knowing the techpowerup was a more ATI pro forum but it's pointless with Nvidia fanboy's arguments about 1-10% performance over 3870.The reason this is pointless is because when a 3870 can't have the computing power to render a game decently be sure that neigther 8800GT can't do it.
If you want proof go see these cards on friends computers never believe tests made on websites that are paid thousands of $ for banners of video cards on their sites and probably paid by even nvidia for a favorable review(you know the drill don't uppset the sponsors they are the hand that feeds you).

*Eyes explode*

For most of the statements you have it right... very convincing. However there is one or two that are absolutely ATI Fanboism... don't be hippocritical.

Heres what I mean:

1. I already said, I dont care about price.

2."Drivers will improve performance", well let me say this, the R600 Drivers are almost the same as the RV670-they are both almost the same as to how they are written (same architecture), with the R600's performance not really improving at all I don't see how they'd improve the RV670's performance. Its good to be hopeful I guess, but you cant compensate architectural faults with driver patches which is rather unfortunate for AMD.

3. Yes, cheats. However why are you comparing a 8800GTS 320MB to a 8800GT 512MB? You could say ATI did the same with the HD2900XT. Same story, you cant compare things from different generations.

4. games not working until some patches and drivers that comes to late or never the most recent being COH opposing fronts crashing because of the video card tried an old ATI x800 worked no problem with this damn 8800GTS crashes in 2-5 min and another problem being NFS Pro Street again very bad performance no matter the resolution or quality the game worked very very bad until 1.1 patch that locked the framerate to 30 FPS not much but at least i could play it now this is just some games that i play don't know about other hunderds games that probably have problems like this ones and they aren't 2 games that no one knows about.

Okay, you are talking about the 8800GTS 320MB, let me tell you this, the 8800GTS 320MB I’d avoid completely, I’ve tested it before and yes it’s a CRAP card. Driver issues with the framebuffer, etc. However the 8800GT – you cant compare. People Actually purchased 8800GTs after they purchased the 8800GTS 320MB and found out it was pure shit in NFS: PS. Both cards run NFS:PS really well, so I wouldn’t really use NFS: PS to argue.

(And the card crashing is the result of the 8800GTS 320MB having an underwhelming cooling solution)

5.i don't consider AA an option on 8800GT in heavy graphics games like crysis and other hevay UT3 engine games tests on review sites showed that framerate plumeted to unreasonable 30-40 fps in SHOOTERS that requiere 60+ fps if you want to survive in a multiplayer or play a decent single player game so the advantage of AA it's 0 if you can't use it in modern games and if you have something that let's you activate AA and still have 60 fps that game probably works on 3870 with AA also so no advantage just braghing.
You play crysis with 4xaa and high quality and i play with a 3870 no AA and i bet you that i will win in multiplayer every time so where is AA applied in games that 3870 can handle too ?

Afaik from first hand experience, the HD3870 gets absolutely crushed by AA. 8800GT only slightly crippled. What is for high quality then? Explain. If I get a HD3870 I have to turn down the options even further-whats the point of that? I have a smaller monitor and jaggies look disgusting on it.

8. Totally irrelevant… I won’t SLi/Xfire either cards at all even if I’m given one extra for free-look at my setup. I’m not that person to use such impractical setups

9. The video quality statement you CANNOT compare something, four generations old, honestly its rather byast. Back then yes Nvidia were in a horrible position and barely were able to stand up.

11. 3D Marks 2008 not supporting the 8 series is something that I don't blame on Nvidia, but instead Futuremark themselves. See, not even the 9 series does DX10.1.

Anyway, the HD3870 and 8800GT, have their merits right? I might as well get the HD3870…. Hmm…

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

i dont rly use aa ... 3870 ...

[Scrizz]

what's the point of this thread....

[tkpenalty]

Okay time to end the farce... guys. This was a joke. I'm getting the 8800GT. Now this was just to test one's loyalty to each side. To be honest if you feel bad for AMD... buy the HD3870. In all honestly they need your help lol.

Now from a technical standpoint, the Gigabyte 8800GT completely stamps over the HD3870, lets blame gigabyte for engineering the 8800GT to be far shorter than the HD3870 shall we? That was one of the major reasons the 8800GT was what I was getting.

Now to educate you guys a fair bit. The faliure rate? You mean the bad batch? Guys don't mix facts up. Please. Technically Gigabyte's 8800GT is superior to the Palit 8800GT, in terms of the manufacturing quality, but i'll let you guys argue over that.

That VF700ALCU isnt going to stay on the 8800GT. I'll rip it off as soon as I get it and install the S1 onto it.

Also the main point I mentioned earlier about the horrible performance issues, well, thats the 8800GTS 320, not the 512MB.

You guys should have been able to see that the 8800GT was clearly the winner from the start to the finish. But I guess your loyalty thought otherwise, which is good I guess.

One more lesson you guys should learn. Unless what the person is deciding between will explode in their face in less than five seconds, I would NOT try to pry them off as it somewhat irritates them.

Now try to convince me to get the HD3870 instead :P

[Tatty_One]

How do you know that ? i see you have 1 MSI 8800GTS video card the new one and 1 palit 8800GT 1GB video card super+ version.WOW we should really trust you.Maybe ATI doesn't cheat as much as Nvidia and see what happens when the timedemo used for benchmark isn't the default one.Some people tried it on guru3d and the result wasn't good for Nvidia practicly they are even in high quality mode.Sure believe that default test that Nvidia tweaked to death and see how bad the framerate still is when you actually play the game in spite the so called optimization (for the benchmark not game )
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/472/10/
look for the high quality test

Limited room to list specs, I actually have 3 palit 8800GT 1GB cards, an Asus 8800GT 512MB, an MSI 8800GTS 512MB and until about 5 weeks ago a HIS HD3870XT 512MB. People trust me here because they know me, do they know you? I did not comment on your pile of spurious NVida liable, true or false.......I am not interested, the OP is asking about 2 cards, not the honour or honesty in their manufacturer so why regurgitate all that crap? it serves no purpose in this thread, you wanna bash NVidia....fine, write them a friggin letter, dont bore me to death with it.

When you talk about trust and the cards I have....how many 8800GT's and HD3870 do you have?


How do I know the 2 driver releases have not improved 3870 performance, because I read what plenty of 3870 ownerws in these forums ARE saying, perhaps you should!
Unlike you, my recommendation was based on my experience with the 8800GT not anyone else's, whats your recommendation based on once you take all the NVIdia face slapping crap out?


Hehehehe.....I enjoyed that!....thanks @)

[JrRacinFan]

I hope that's a 512MB flavor of the 8800gt. Is power consumption an issue on your rig?

[DaMulta]

So this was a flame thread?

It didn't even turn into one so HA!

[JrRacinFan]

On second thought that I now think about my previous comments. 8800GT.

[tkpenalty]

I hope that's a 512MB flavor of the 8800gt. Is power consumption an issue on your rig?

Yep 512MB, no power consumption issues.

lol mitsirfishi just told me that my X1950PRO going no display was normal... lol. Heh just some fun info. My old PC is going to be from this:

Pentium 4 3.2Ghz Northwood
2x1GB DDR400 RAM
ASUS P4S800
Dead 9800PRO :cry:
Some deadly thermaltake PSU which killed the 9800
CD ROM
80GB IDE WD800

to this:

Core 2 Duo E2140
Gigabyte GA P31 DS3L
2x1GB DDR800 Generic
Powercolor X1950PRO 256MB Extreme with the AcceleroX2 bolted back on
Antec NEO HE 380W
160GB Western Digital WD1600 SATAII
Pioneer 18x SATAII Burner
My old generic box; the APEX PC-132

Performance wise.... its damn close to my current PC, except for GPU. Going to have fun playing with the E2140 :D.

So this was a flame thread?

It didn't even turn into one so HA!

It was a farce. Pretty useful to see what sort of facts you guys could dig out to convince me onto either side.

I will not end the X1k HD3k whatsover, so don't worry guys :D

[leonard_222003]

We all knew your chioce from the begining.:laugh: Let's not make this about you.
Nvidia burned fanboy's alot remember 7900 series let's see what happens when some heavy shader based game arrive all that AA crap will go to garbage if the video card can't even handle the shader based part.
Nvidia plays dirty with the competition and even with the customers in the fisrt stages of optimization look what Nvidia did for the greed of the sales
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=487&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=1
i don;t see this from AMD/ATI in the recent years so this makes us wonder is that default benchmark any good? does it reflect the actual performance ? no no no from the first cheat people should realize that you can;t benchmark with that game unless you use another timedemo if it can be done.
8800GTS is a bad card because of the memory and other bugs but the cooling is good
why would you say this

"(And the card crashing is the result of the 8800GTS 320MB having an underwhelming cooling solution) "

full load 60-65 C depending on the game not 80+ like 8800GT
here is a question why buy a 8800GT and then change the cooler ? video card+cooler probably = 8800GTS 512 MB wich already have a good cooling

[tkpenalty]

We all knew your chioce from the begining.:laugh: Let's not make this about you.
Nvidia burned fanboy's alot remember 7900 series let's see what happens when some heavy shader based game arrive all that AA crap will go to garbage if the video card can't even handle the shader based part.
Nvidia plays dirty with the competition and even with the customers in the fisrt stages of optimization look what Nvidia did for the greed of the sales
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=487&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=1
i don;t see this from AMD/ATI in the recent years so this makes us wonder is that default benchmark any good? does it reflect the actual performance ? no no no from the first cheat people should realize that you can;t benchmark with that game unless you use another timedemo if it can be done.
8800GTS is a bad card because of the memory and other bugs but the cooling is good
why would you say this

"(And the card crashing is the result of the 8800GTS 320MB having an underwhelming cooling solution) "

full load 60-65 C depending on the game not 80+ like 8800GT
here is a question why buy a 8800GT and then change the cooler ? video card+cooler probably = 8800GTS 512 MB wich already have a good cooling

8800GTS 512MB's cooling solution is terrible...

I dont like the reference 8800GT with two phases...

[leonard_222003]

Ok i'll leave it allone to this they are both good graphic cards gigabyte is a good company (prefer DFI when it comes to motherboards the sudden change in gigabyte with the all solid capacitors it's not beceause they want to give us some better product but because some time ago they had some major problems with motherbords that stopped working at least in my town all of my friends got gigabyte motherboards and we all got screwed after 1 year or so all RMA-ing them Nforce2 and Kt... some via chipset all faulty after a year or so)
and they really made a good change i saw a test of the video cards with this change and the consumption was a lot lower because of this no change in overclocking.
Go for whatever you want and be happy tkpenalty.

[Tatty_One]

TK, dont bother, this guy has been banned on a couple of occasions for saying the same stuff, he mostly just cuts and paste's the old stuff and then hangs around as a guest until he sees potential Flame bait like here and then pastes his NVidia/Ati stuff in.

I have absolutely no worries if someone who owns a card says it's good or bad but when someone says not to beleive reviews just go on personal experience but then admit they have no personal expereince....well that about sums it up!

As far as corportate "cheating" or whatever you wanna call it is concerned, that may be right or wrong but does not answer the question in your origional post, I only judge a card on the performance I see, and I like the 8800GT......but I like the GTS better! As I said earlier, I really like the 3870 also, for the price its an awesome card IMO, just not quite as quick generally.

8800GTS cooling solution terrible?......MSI 8800GTS 512mb G92 @835mhz on the core on stock cooling.......at 70% fan speed (very quiet) idles at 38C loads at 59C!

[Darknova]

Wow...what a waste...Well on to helping people who actually need help and don't want to "test" my loyalty...

[craigwhiteside]

8800GT if your going for a single card setup, 3870 if your going for crossfire :D
i heard the 3870's scale extremely well in crossfire vs 8800's sli if its on low resolutions and no AA

here is a linky to benchmarks :)

http://www.expreview.com/review/2007-11-24/1195902778d7055_11.html

[mikek75]

Well said Darknova, the tone of this got my goat too.

[pepsi71ocean]

full load 60-65 C depending on the game not 80+ like 8800GT
here is a question why buy a 8800GT and then change the cooler ? video card+cooler probably = 8800GTS 512 MB wich already have a good cooling

My overclocked 8800GT rund at 46 Idle, and about 55-59 on load, with the fan speed set to 75%, IMO the fan set to 25% is stupid, its a noise issue, i could care less about the whirlling that i can barely hear over the sounds of the game im playing. Just though ide point that out.

[leonard_222003]

TK, dont bother, this guy has been banned on a couple of occasions for saying the same stuff, he mostly just cuts and paste's the old stuff and then hangs around as a guest until he sees potential Flame bait like here and then pastes his NVidia/Ati stuff in.

are you talking about me ? if so prove it don't lie about it
it shouldn't be hard i have about 6-7 posts since i joined in 2006 so not to hard to search for flames i provoked.
Unblelievable how people lie like this i'm outraged!

[erocker]

are you talking about me ? if so prove it don't lie about it
it shouldn't be hard i have about 6-7 posts since i joined in 2006 so not to hard to search for flames i provoked.
Unblelievable how people lie like this i'm outraged!

I don't know leonard, none of your ramblings made much sense to me, other than the obvious stuff. The fact of the matter is, lack of familiarity, and post count equals no credibility on most forums. Don't be outraged, it's not a lie.:cool:

[craigwhiteside]

lol, im sorry for this leonard but..

http://yougotowned.net/you_got_owned_yel.gif

LOL!

[Wile E]

How do you know that ? i see you have 1 MSI 8800GTS video card the new one and 1 palit 8800GT 1GB video card super+ version.WOW we should really trust you.Maybe ATI doesn't cheat as much as Nvidia and see what happens when the timedemo used for benchmark isn't the default one.Some people tried it on guru3d and the result wasn't good for Nvidia practicly they are even in high quality mode.Sure believe that default test that Nvidia tweaked to death and see how bad the framerate still is when you actually play the game in spite the so called optimization (for the benchmark not game )
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/472/10/
look for the high quality test
He knows that because he speaks the truth. I also have a Palit 1GB 8800GT, but I also own a Powercolor 2900XT, and the 8800 beats it in EVERYTHING when you turn on AA. It doesn't matter what game you choose, the 8800 is faster at that point, and still looks amazingly good. It doesn't matter who optimized what, all that matters is the end result. This is coming from an ATI fanboy, btw. This is my first nVidia card since the tnt days.

[leonard_222003]

I don't know leonard, none of your ramblings made much sense to me, other than the obvious stuff. The fact of the matter is, lack of familiarity, and post count equals no credibility on most forums. Don't be outraged, it's not a lie.:cool:
Reallly again prove it what ramblings what have i said that can be considered untrue ?
Untrue is some one that come and says he has all the video cards from 1900 to 2009 and he knows what video card is the best.
I give links to tests what do you do ? question me ?
It seems that i talk with some challenged minds here one says that i have been banned on serveral ocassions but has no proof and if you look my account was made in jan 2006 not yesterday and one says i have a lack of famialiarity in spite of the long post that i made something like "the idiot guide to buying an ATI video card" but for him i state the obvious well the first that says 8800GT is faster with AA states the obvious and should shut up so everyone that want's to state something good about Nvidia video cards like AA faster overclocking to most usual limits should restrain because they state something obvious :)
happy erocker ?
And who said about me that i was banned or provoke flame in the past or anything bad about me it means he knows me and is a member of the bestiality club and dreaming about your mother in a weird way club :)
It's funny when you people have nothing you start to lie very bad it's just pathetic and really really OBVIOUS.

[ShadowFold]

I voted HD 3870 because im am more than amazed by my HD 3850 so a HD 3870 will not disapoint you in any way. And the HD 3800's will run cooler and I hear about 8800GT problems all the time :(

[Wile E]

Reallly again prove it what ramblings what have i said that can be considered untrue ?
Untrue is some one that come and says he has all the video cards from 1900 to 2009 and he knows what video card is the best.
I give links to tests what do you do ? question me ?
It seems that i talk with some challenged minds here one says that i have been banned on serveral ocassions but has no proof and if you look my account was made in jan 2006 not yesterday and one says i have a lack of famialiarity in spite of the long post that i made something like "the idiot guide to buying an ATI video card" but for him i state the obvious well the first that says 8800GT is faster with AA states the obvious and should shut up so everyone that want's to state something good about Nvidia video cards like AA faster overclocking to most usual limits should restrain because they state something obvious :)
happy erocker ?
And who said about me that i was banned or provoke flame in the past or anything bad about me it means he knows me and is a member of the bestiality club and dreaming about your mother in a weird way club :)
It's funny when you people have nothing you start to lie very bad it's just pathetic and really really OBVIOUS.Leaving out all these personal attacks going back and forth and getting back on-topic; The AA performance is brought up repeatedly because some people turn a blind eye towards it, and need reminded. What's obvious to one, is not obvious to another. Repeating good (or bad) aspects of a card only works to solidify the statements being made about it.

There have also been good things said about the 3870: Less power consumption and it's cheaper, while still having very good performance. But the OP is disregarding price, and is apparently not worried about the small power consumption advantage, therefore all we have left to go on is performance. In that case, the 8800 wins, hands down.

[zekrahminator]

Us Moderators would like to remind you of our omnipotent potency with a simple cat picture.


http://img.techpowerup.org/080115/101.jpg



Please tone it down on the fighting. There's a huge difference between an intelligent debate and an all out fight/flamewar. I like to give people five-day "vacations" for turning an intelligent debate into a no-holds-barred fight, if you get my drift (*cough*consider this your warning*cough*).

[leonard_222003]

The OP already wanted an 8800GT that's why he made those rules for voting he never intended to buy a 3870.
Maybe we should make another thread like this but with other requirements
1. consume less
2. be cheaper
3. for silent computer
4. realiable for a long time
5. good video playback quality
6. enough performance for today games
and so on
what video card i want guys ? i really don't know gush i'm so stupid please tell me i want an HD3870 please please please.

[zekrahminator]

Much better :).


The report button is scenically located under the user title, to the right of the online/offline indicator, if anyone screws around. We like to follow through when we say we're going to do something involving punishing. My banstick is getting awful dusty...

[jimbo405]

the 3870 atomic is pretty damn close to a 8800 gt 512 mb

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/sapphire_radeon_hd_3850_ultimate_3870_atomic/page5.asp

[Wile E]

The OP already wanted an 8800GT that's why he made those rules for voting he never intended to buy a 3870.
Maybe we should make another thread like this but with other requirements
1. consume less
2. be cheaper
3. for silent computer
4. realiable for a long time
5. good video playback quality
6. enough performance for today games
and so on
what video card i want guys ? i really don't know gush i'm so stupid please tell me i want an HD3870 please please please.You can't prove #4 one way or the other. They're both to new to prove long term reliability.

[jimbo405]

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=513&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=5

3870 atomic beat 8800 gt 512 mb at highest settings in quakewars lol 1 fps

[leonard_222003]

long time can mean anything from 1 month to 1 year for now more 8800GT's die faster some they are dead from the manufacterer that failure rate is high in Nvidia court but not in AMD/ATI so they are more realiable and more safe to buy (3870) than 8800GT's.

[zekrahminator]

Jimbo: He's not looking at an "atomic" anything. Just a stock 3870 with a Gigabyte label. Sure, the 3870 "keeps up" with the 8800GT, but the 8800GT runs at higher and more stable frames.

I'd rather have the 8800GT, myself.


Leo:

8800GTs die faster because NVIDIA forgot to put a decent cooler on them, and they get up to 90C under load :p.

[jimbo405]

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=513&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=6

3870 atomic core 825 beat 8800 gt reference at high ass unplayable settings crysis* both unplayable but hey atleast 3870 pulled better fps lol.

[jimbo405]

However, once again ATI's lack of hardware anti-aliasing resolve capabilities in their ROPs hurts them once AA is enabled,

Is there anyway to fix this with drivers? use rops instead of shaders for aa?

[ShadowFold]

However, once again ATI's lack of hardware anti-aliasing resolve capabilities in their ROPs hurts them once AA is enabled,

Is there anyway to fix this with drivers? use rops instead of shaders for aa?

I dont get hit that much with 2x AA on games. Crysis w/o AA all medium w/ high shaders I get in the 30's of FPS and with AA I get lower 30's and it dips into lower 20's. World of Warcraft, all maxed out no AA I get 60-120 fps with 8x AA I get 40-60fps. I usually get like a 5-10fps drop on most games whitch isnt that bad.

[jimbo405]

Im asking if anyone basically knows if the r600/r670 is capable of doing hardware anti aliasing with rops like nvidia? Couldnt they just rewrite the drivers to use the r600's 16 rops for aa instead of doing it with shaders?

EDIT

[jimbo405]

oops^ edit

[leonard_222003]

The cooler is one thing that kills that video card and another is the rush of nvidia they rushed drivers with OBVIOUS cheats just to beat ATI in crysis and the whole video card semed rushed to come in better time than ATI/AMD from the launch they where to few video cards even now you can;t find one in my country also the launch was so rushed that some batches where faulty and the fairly poor quality of the video card from some manufacturers is the Nvidia fault for having a more expensive GPU than ATI/AMD and for that they had to reduce quality on the cooler on the capacitors and from fudzilla.com i heard that Nvidia suggests to parteners to cut costs even more if they want to compete with the AMD/ATI agressive pricing.
That 3850 is just a pain in the ass for Nvidia very cheap and easily overcloked to 3870 performance.
If you look at the referance PCB of the 8800GT and the referance PCB of the 3870 you imedialty see the poor quality components on the 8800GT one of the biggest being the cooler and the capacitors.
What gigabyte did with this change is huge for 8800GT but minor for 3870 wich already had good components on it.
ABout AA on ATI's i heard about some shader based AA that was to be implemented but no games today support it and because AMD/ATI is in deep sh.. now they don;t have the money to support developers like Nvidia.
There where somethign else that not even now is used tesselation and virtualization both supported by ATI from the HD2900XT and they got really screwed by microsoft that at first said that DX10 hardware must have virtualization but when Nvidia failed to make it happen because hardware limitations DX10 compatible meant what nvidia got and has now and DX10.1 means what ATI has now and had for a long time but no games use it.
It's no wonder Nvidia don't want to include features like tesselation and virtualization in theyr new generation because that means supporting developers in making games that will work perfectly on ATI/amd hardware so as long as AMD don't have money to support them Nvidia is happy holding them back from using features like that.

[trog100]

AA first came out back in the days of 640 x 480 gaming.. it meant a bit more back then than it does now.. the idea was lose the jaggies without having to go to a higher unplayable resolution.. i have to look very closely indeed before i miss it at the 1608 x 1050 resolution i now game at..

trog

[tkpenalty]

AA first came out back in the days of 640 x 480 gaming.. it meant a bit more back then than it does now.. the idea was lose the jaggies without having to go to a higher unplayable resolution.. i have to look very closely indeed before i miss it at the 1608 x 1050 resolution i now game at..

trog

Yeah true, AA is now purely based for making it look more real. Well, at 1608x1050 the resolution isnt big enough for me not to easily see jaggies.

The cooler is one thing that kills that video card and another is the rush of nvidia they rushed drivers with OBVIOUS cheats just to beat ATI in crysis and the whole video card semed rushed to come in better time than ATI/AMD from the launch they where to few video cards even now you can;t find one in my country also the launch was so rushed that some batches where faulty and the fairly poor quality of the video card from some manufacturers is the Nvidia fault for having a more expensive GPU than ATI/AMD and for that they had to reduce quality on the cooler on the capacitors and from fudzilla.com i heard that Nvidia suggests to parteners to cut costs even more if they want to compete with the AMD/ATI agressive pricing.
That 3850 is just a pain in the ass for Nvidia very cheap and easily overcloked to 3870 performance.
If you look at the referance PCB of the 8800GT and the referance PCB of the 3870 you imedialty see the poor quality components on the 8800GT one of the biggest being the cooler and the capacitors.
What gigabyte did with this change is huge for 8800GT but minor for 3870 wich already had good components on it.
ABout AA on ATI's i heard about some shader based AA that was to be implemented but no games today support it and because AMD/ATI is in deep sh.. now they don;t have the money to support developers like Nvidia.
There where somethign else that not even now is used tesselation and virtualization both supported by ATI from the HD2900XT and they got really screwed by microsoft that at first said that DX10 hardware must have virtualization but when Nvidia failed to make it happen because hardware limitations DX10 compatible meant what nvidia got and has now and DX10.1 means what ATI has now and had for a long time but no games use it.
It's no wonder Nvidia don't want to include features like tesselation and virtualization in theyr new generation because that means supporting developers in making games that will work perfectly on ATI/amd hardware so as long as AMD don't have money to support them Nvidia is happy holding them back from using features like that.

Even though this sounds like a one sided argument, you are VERY correct on several points that nvidia rushed it to get it working. Knowing Nvidia this is normal. AMD on the other hand should have been the ones rushing to get the stuff out, instead they turtled out and let their opponents trample over them.

Yes tesselation, unfortunately not everyone was interested in tesselation (even though the HD2900XT could do it really well) as bump mapping and texture displacement mapping could do virtually the same with minimal artifacts these days.

"If you look at the referance PCB of the 8800GT and the referance PCB of the 3870 you imedialty see the poor quality components on the 8800GT one of the biggest being the cooler and the capacitors."

Now that, is true times a million. Nvidia didn't even bother with making their PCBs use a reliable voltage circuitry system, nor did they make a cooling solution that would keep the enthusiasts feeling safe (83*C 8800 anyone? In a room a/c'ed to 18*C?). Well I guess they DID try to cram a bit too much into a small thing. Its purely style over substance in this case-the stock cooler looks great!

I'll give you a reason why AMD can afford to make their PCBs very good; the fact is that AMD doesnt resale GPUs like nvidia means that they can afford not to cut back, as they know the other manufacturers can afford to spend on high quality parts. Take the HD3870/HD3850 for example, both use 3 phase Core and 1 Phase memory, with the mosfets cooled for better operation. (They are the normal mosfets however... still need to be cooled). Nvidia gets foxconn (and someone else) to make their cards, then they resell them to companies to sell as retail.

[leonard_222003]

So we agree that the bad timing of AMD buying ATI made Nvidia what it is today not the bad arhitecture of ATI but the bad support from AMD for game developers.
Remember the days when crytek was supported by ATI and far cry was much smoother on the ATI hardware and they've gone so far in making a cool tech demo for them showcasing some HDR on X800 and 3Dc then there was half-life a very big game at that time supported by ATI heavily but that didn't made x800 cards the best.
At that time they where the fastest(x800) but shader 3.0 on the 6800 showed it's use some time latter when ATI already had another series and Nvidia too so we are faced with a similar choice today like back then when ATI screamed that they can do HDR and everything but time proved that they can;t like this Nvidia screams that DX10.1 means nothing if tesselation and virtualization was included as a requirement i don't know but they scream like it means nothing and we really don't know but one news makes me think that it means something and that is 3dmark 2008 and the test that nvidia can't do.
In every 3dmark the tests where DX some DX some and the pretty one was with the highest DX requirement so if the pretties one will work only on AMD/ATI video cards i guess that tesselation and virtualization means something very important that AMD/ATI can do and Nvidia can't do it.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5080&Itemid=57
they say february is the date will see then what's all the fuss about and what is we are missing.
If we are missing something big it means Nvidia lied and they drag crytek(the lackyes they own now) with them :))) that is big because crytek said they use modern graphics to they'r fullest so where is the fullest with ATI cards if they don;t use tesselation and virtualization and where is the exclusive only DX10 content that can work in windows XP DX9.0c.
For now almost every effect that can be made in Dx10 can be made in DX9.0C crysis proved that and other games limit us from options but probably can be made available in DX9 also but for sponsors reasons they don't (world in conflict,lost planet ...etc.).Come on COH is just outrageous some better texture and lighting can only be made on DX10 platform and Lost Planet,bioshock with the almost invisible to the naked eye shadows and effects that can only be made on DX10 again let's not upset the big sponsor nvidia.
Really high tech this DX10 so high tech that can also be made on the very old DX9 like i said they are holding them back alot because they don't have the hardware.

[Skrabrug]

at this stage i just think its a matter of preference : /

they both seem to be pretty even.. some good points some bad points.
but yeah.. all a matter of preference.

[tkpenalty]

lol.... still neck and neck.

[candle_86]

8800GT for sure

Faster card overall, benchmarks in games prove that, the HD3870 = HD2900XT just less expensive and that had trouble beating the 8800GTS So I day get the 8800GT

[cooler]

tkpenalty you will get 8800gt no matter what we say :banghead:
(this thread has no point,we already know the answer :shadedshu )

[yogurt_21]

I voted 8800gt because it's faster, runs better with aa on and one of the mosfets is crooked on the 3870. lol

[jimbo405]

3870 is better more futureproof.

[tkpenalty]

3870 is better more futureproof.

??? Why

[erocker]

He's probablly thinking PCI-E 2.0. Did you order the GT yet?

[tkpenalty]

yep it was already coming before i made the thread :laugh: this was a farce.

[cooler]

yep it was already coming before i made the thread :laugh: this was a farce.

8800 does win :rolleyes:
this make all people who vote hd3870 a loser ( including me :laugh:)

[Scrizz]

too bad he didn't get an HD3890


lol j/k

[strick94u]

This thread is best ever
I would just get the blue one I heard it breaks less

[strick94u]

3870 is better more futureproof.

Becuase in the future there will be Robots

[Wile E]

The cooler is one thing that kills that video card and another is the rush of nvidia they rushed drivers with OBVIOUS cheats just to beat ATI in crysis and the whole video card semed rushed to come in better time than ATI/AMD from the launch they where to few video cards even now you can;t find one in my country also the launch was so rushed that some batches where faulty and the fairly poor quality of the video card from some manufacturers is the Nvidia fault for having a more expensive GPU than ATI/AMD and for that they had to reduce quality on the cooler on the capacitors and from fudzilla.com i heard that Nvidia suggests to parteners to cut costs even more if they want to compete with the AMD/ATI agressive pricing.
That 3850 is just a pain in the ass for Nvidia very cheap and easily overcloked to 3870 performance.
If you look at the referance PCB of the 8800GT and the referance PCB of the 3870 you imedialty see the poor quality components on the 8800GT one of the biggest being the cooler and the capacitors.
What gigabyte did with this change is huge for 8800GT but minor for 3870 wich already had good components on it.
ABout AA on ATI's i heard about some shader based AA that was to be implemented but no games today support it and because AMD/ATI is in deep sh.. now they don;t have the money to support developers like Nvidia.
There where somethign else that not even now is used tesselation and virtualization both supported by ATI from the HD2900XT and they got really screwed by microsoft that at first said that DX10 hardware must have virtualization but when Nvidia failed to make it happen because hardware limitations DX10 compatible meant what nvidia got and has now and DX10.1 means what ATI has now and had for a long time but no games use it.
It's no wonder Nvidia don't want to include features like tesselation and virtualization in theyr new generation because that means supporting developers in making games that will work perfectly on ATI/amd hardware so as long as AMD don't have money to support them Nvidia is happy holding them back from using features like that.nVidia had a bad batch of 8800GT's. That far from proves a lack of reliability. Some 1950Pros suffered the same fate. Defects and reliability are 2 different matters entirely. Neither the 3870 or the 8800GT have been around long enough to decide reliability. I've seen plenty of cards from both camps have to be rma'd.

As far as people complaining about hitting 80C+, my X1800XT did just that, and my 2900 comes damn close at 76C. My Palit 8800GT tops out at 59C.

As far as tesselation and virtualization, these are 2 features I would love to see being supported. But the fact of the matter is, they currently aren't. "What ifs" don't change the fact that all current games are faster on an 8800GT.

People can cry foul all they want. It doesn't matter to the end user why the 8800 is faster, all that matters is that it is.

[wolf]

that it is.

[tkpenalty]

nVidia had a bad batch of 8800GT's. That far from proves a lack of reliability. Some 1950Pros suffered the same fate. Defects and reliability are 2 different matters entirely. Neither the 3870 or the 8800GT have been around long enough to decide reliability. I've seen plenty of cards from both camps have to be rma'd.

As far as people complaining about hitting 80C+, my X1800XT did just that, and my 2900 comes damn close at 76C. My Palit 8800GT tops out at 59C.

As far as tesselation and virtualization, these are 2 features I would love to see being supported. But the fact of the matter is, they currently aren't. "What ifs" don't change the fact that all current games are faster on an 8800GT.

People can cry foul all they want. It doesn't matter to the end user why the 8800 is faster, all that matters is that it is.

Wile E i told him about the bad batch already :laugh:

[Wile E]

Wile E i told him about the bad batch already :laugh:I know, but not mentioning it kinda made my point seem less than effective. lol.

[papubhai]

go with 3870 better option in terms of price and will be better in newer games

[tkpenalty]

My my do people know how to read :rolleyes:

[Duxx]

Got my vote in just in time! :D

/sarcasmoff

[jimbo405]

??? Why

dx 10.1 pixel shader 4.1.

[candle_86]

go with 3870 better option in terms of price and will be better in newer games

really just how is thats?

the 320 stream processors or the the heat it puts off?

lets be real and blunt here, ATI/AMD lost, and they lost hard.

ATI pushed the x1900XTX line out, Nvidia didnt do much since the NV40. Look at NV40 compared to G71, some optimations here and there but all in all the 7900GTX could have been called a 6950Ultra and it would meant the same thing. Nvidia set there sites on the prize and doing what they know best. ATI built the R520 which failed to compete and was late to market and responded with the R580 which didnt hold up to the G71 so they made the R580+

That whole time Nvidia spent working on G80. G70 as we know it is NV47 and guess what that makes it very close to NV40.

ATI did the whole DX thing back in 2002, Nvidia got cut from the planning stages and had to guess to get a card to market before 2004. Look at it this way, Nvidia made a mistake once, its called NV25 and its how ATI caught them, and guess what ATI/AMD just did it with R600 by spending all there time on the R500 line of GPU's and Nvidia servered them notice that this is still Nvidias ball game, you play by there rules or you loose.

[jimbo405]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8636666&st=3870&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1194053242087

visiontek 3870 lifetime warranty 214$

might be sold out but lets me add it to cart.

[jimbo405]

really just how is thats?

the 320 stream processors or the the heat it puts off?

lets be real and blunt here, ATI/AMD lost, and they lost hard.

ATI pushed the x1900XTX line out, Nvidia didnt do much since the NV40. Look at NV40 compared to G71, some optimations here and there but all in all the 7900GTX could have been called a 6950Ultra and it would meant the same thing. Nvidia set there sites on the prize and doing what they know best. ATI built the R520 which failed to compete and was late to market and responded with the R580 which didnt hold up to the G71 so they made the R580+

That whole time Nvidia spent working on G80. G70 as we know it is NV47 and guess what that makes it very close to NV40.

ATI did the whole DX thing back in 2002, Nvidia got cut from the planning stages and had to guess to get a card to market before 2004. Look at it this way, Nvidia made a mistake once, its called NV25 and its how ATI caught them, and guess what ATI/AMD just did it with R600 by spending all there time on the R500 line of GPU's and Nvidia servered them notice that this is still Nvidias ball game, you play by there rules or you loose.


lol seriously stop talking iam a 8800 gt 512 mb owner myself and you are full of shit and never used a r670 before just stfu.

its a good card.

[tkpenalty]

I'll ask for a lock if you guys don't smart up. I said, i will not take other options either then those two. How hard is that to explain???

[Judas]

Well if we go by that you are using a 17" monitor, i dont think you would see much difference
between the 2. But if i was to go by which card is better then i voted for the 8800gt

[candle_86]

lol seriously stop talking iam a 8800 gt 512 mb owner myself and you are full of shit and never used a r670 before just stfu.

its a good card.

its a good card, but benchmarks prove it isnt up to par. This is geforceFX all over again except ATI is on the reciving end.

[technicks]

lol seriously stop talking iam a 8800 gt 512 mb owner myself and you are full of shit and never used a r670 before just stfu.

its a good card.

Just reported you for the second time.:nutkick:

Say BYE BYE.;)

[Darksaber]

lol seriously stop talking iam a 8800 gt 512 mb owner myself and you are full of shit and never used a r670 before just stfu.

its a good card.

Alright Jimbo, you have not been here for a long time. Consider this a kind warning: please refrain from insulting other members, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I will keep an eye on this thread. Please keep it clean.

cheers
DS

[zekrahminator]

lol seriously stop talking iam a 8800 gt 512 mb owner myself and you are full of shit and never used a r670 before just stfu.

its a good card.

Oh dear, it seems that some people simply don't know how to read (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=612384&postcount=59)....see you in five days.

[ZenZimZaliben]

tkpenalty you will get 8800gt no matter what we say :banghead:
(this thread has no point,we already know the answer :shadedshu )

+5 on that.

[sethk]

The 3870 has its positive attributes, but for your described use I think the 8800GT will be faster in most cases.

[tkpenalty]

Sorry for bringing the thread back from the dead, but this matter isn't signifcant enough to deserve its own thread... BUT

From what some TPU users say, the Palit 8800GT Sonic> Gigabyte's 8800GT Ultra Durable, is totaly incorrect. After physically examining the Gigabyte 8800GT's PCB the power phases are like this:

NOTE: This 8800 pic's PCB uses slightly inferior components compared to the production model
http://www.tcmagazine.com/images/news/Hardware/Gigabyte_GV-NX88t512HP_01.jpg

2x Memory phases
4x Vcore Phases.

Why? Two chokes on top and bottom of the four larger R80 chokes. It would be rather illogical to have two extra chokes on either side of the large set. Moreover, note the type of MOSFET that are used, these are BGA mounted-not the legmounted ones, different. The memory phases sure, use small components, but two phase for memory anyone?

So people like Wile E, etcetera, what do you say about this?

EDIT: Moreover, the 8800 from gigabyte now comes with a cut down version of the VF1000, two heatpipes less fins, but its larger than the VF900CU. I nickname it the VF1000 LE :laugh:, this means that the cooling for the 8800 is superior to the older revision, and the Palit one. However I don't really care... AcceleroS1 anyone? :p.

[Wile E]

Sorry for bringing the thread back from the dead, but this matter isn't signifcant enough to deserve its own thread... BUT

From what some TPU users say, the Palit 8800GT Sonic> Gigabyte's 8800GT Ultra Durable, is totaly incorrect. After physically examining the Gigabyte 8800GT's PCB the power phases are like this:

NOTE: This 8800 pic's PCB uses slightly inferior components compared to the production model
http://www.tcmagazine.com/images/news/Hardware/Gigabyte_GV-NX88t512HP_01.jpg

2x Memory phases
4x Vcore Phases.

Why? Two chokes on top and bottom of the four larger R80 chokes. It would be rather illogical to have two extra chokes on either side of the large set. Moreover, note the type of MOSFET that are used, these are BGA mounted-not the legmounted ones, different. The memory phases sure, use small components, but two phase for memory anyone?

So people like Wile E, etcetera, what do you say about this?

EDIT: Moreover, the 8800 from gigabyte now comes with a cut down version of the VF1000, two heatpipes less fins, but its larger than the VF900CU. I nickname it the VF1000 LE :laugh:, this means that the cooling for the 8800 is superior to the older revision, and the Palit one. However I don't really care... AcceleroS1 anyone? :p.It's right on they're site tk. The GB card is 3phase. 4 chokes does not mean 4 phases.

Furthermore, the cooling difference doesn't matter in reference to this thread as you said an Accelero S1 will be going on it. But the Palit cooling is better than stock.

Pics I took of the Palit 8800GT 1GB I have.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080128/PICT0003.jpg
http://img.techpowerup.org/080128/PICT0002.jpg

[Tatty_One]

I had the Accelero S1 on my Asus 8800GT and it was awesome, overclocked and BIOS modded to 1.1V at 775 core it idled at around 32C and did not go above 47C full load, it is without a doubt better than the Palit aftermarket cooler fitted as standard but not by a vast amount, I have applied Ceramique to mine and get idles of around 42C at 60% fan and load temps of around 58C, at 100% you can drop those temps by 10C but then you would have a leaf blower in your case, considering the GPU can handle temps in excess of 90C apparently then IMO it's doing a pretty good job.

[Vargul_666]

i bought an 8800gts late last year around september

a couple of weeks ago graphical errors started occuring then its temp at idle was around 48-50C and over 80 at high load

strange but its built to handle said temps i hadnt changed the clockspeed or tweaked it in any way and previously its temps for idle and load were about 10-14 C cooler

the s&*$ hit the fan when my OS wouldnt boot and colums of squares appeared during boot

so i took it back to my retailer and they went over it called me back in about 3 days to inform me that the card was completely cooked burnt out or w/e way you want to put it

they couldnt really explain it i gave them my PC specs and it left them baffled

so you know what ive got ill list it maybe you have an idea

Asus Commando MB 965P 2PCIe/D2/S2/1394(775)
INTEL Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHZ (775) Quad Core CPU
Corsair 1GB PC4200 DDR2 533x2
Twintech GeForce 8800GTS 320MB PCIe Video Card 2xDVI/TV-out
400watt psu cant remember the brand and i cant check cause i bought a new corsair 550W a couple of weeks back due to a tech telling me it didnt have enough power

3 120mm fans front side and rear

according to my supplier i was the first they'd heard of that has fryed one (call guiness)

any ideas or tips would be more then welcome

back to the point though maybe geforce isnt the way to go rite now i wasnt taxing it i think the most load it every came under was Mplayer supreme commander with expansion

[JC316]

8800gt

[Xazax]

Ati Hd 3870 :)

[wolf]

didn't we conclude an 8800GT was the way?

[Tatty_One]

We did, not sure why the newbie posted here his problem with the OLD 8800GTS :confused:

[yogurt_21]

really just how is thats?

the 320 stream processors or the the heat it puts off?

lets be real and blunt here, ATI/AMD lost, and they lost hard.

ATI pushed the x1900XTX line out, Nvidia didnt do much since the NV40. Look at NV40 compared to G71, some optimations here and there but all in all the 7900GTX could have been called a 6950Ultra and it would meant the same thing. Nvidia set there sites on the prize and doing what they know best. ATI built the R520 which failed to compete and was late to market and responded with the R580 which didnt hold up to the G71 so they made the R580+

That whole time Nvidia spent working on G80. G70 as we know it is NV47 and guess what that makes it very close to NV40.

ATI did the whole DX thing back in 2002, Nvidia got cut from the planning stages and had to guess to get a card to market before 2004. Look at it this way, Nvidia made a mistake once, its called NV25 and its how ATI caught them, and guess what ATI/AMD just did it with R600 by spending all there time on the R500 line of GPU's and Nvidia servered them notice that this is still Nvidias ball game, you play by there rules or you loose.

/off topic
The r520 didn't lose at anything, it was more than 25% faster than the 7800gtx 256mb and matched the all too rare 7800gtx 512mb, and of course the sapphire x1800xtpe bios took care of that.
ati was far too premature with the x1900's and should have held them off for a while, as the x1800xt was faste enoguh to catch and beat in several areas the 7900gt, and with the pe bios, it matched the gtx. then ati could have launched the x1900's right after the 7900's and aquire quite a few more sales that way. this would have also given them more resources to work on the r600 as the r580 didn't need any revisions to beat the 7900 series.
/off topic

getting back on topic the 3870 is a decent card for the money, but still fails to compete with the 8800gt much less the g92 based gts. luckily for amd, though, nvidia got ahead of themselves with that launch and all the specs and reviews of the 9800gtx aren't impressive at all at this point.

bottom line the 8800gt is the card to get out of this thread, and it seems it will still be competitve for a while longer based on the next line up.