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EastCoasthandle

02-08-2008, 11:45 PM

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/First%20attempt.jpg
(thanks to Dr. Spankenstein)

Ok, here's a club for those that water cool their PC. Below you will find a small list of items that will get your started. All are welcomed to join. Do you have the guts?

Hardware

Here is a realistic and honest water cooling setup:

Thermalright LGA775 RM Retension Bracket (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thlgrmrebr.html). This is one of the most important pieces of hardware one needs when assembling the CPU waterblock to the MB. This particular bracket uses the least amount of MB surface area yet still allows for the most torque when bolting down the screws without bending the motherboard. This is one of few CPU retention brackets that allows only the center of the bracket to make contact with the MB. Side note: It's a good idea to place s small strip of electrical tape on the front side of the mb's holes. This is so that you don't dent or scratch the MB as your tighten down the nut on the screw. It's also a good idea to buy some neoprene rubber flat washer on the screw first. Therefore it should be:
-motherboard
-electrical tape (on top of hole, you have to cut a small slit so the screw and pierce through)
-neoprene rubber flat washer down the screw
-plastic washer (that comes with the CPU WB kit)
-nut
You will need to get a good torque on the nut (using a 6mm deep socket) and a Phillips Screw Driver. Don't over do it, just enough to allow you to tighten the WB on the CPU with the second pair of nuts without turning the entire screw. Your screwed (pardon the pun) if you screw down the MB on the MB tray and the entire screw turns as your turn the second set of nuts. Look at this review (http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=9&artpage=3117&articID=627) and go to the next page of that review (http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=10&artpage=3165&articID=627) to see what kind of difference a good back plate can make.
http://img.techpowerup.org/090223/RetentionBracket.jpg

There is also a FuZion Intel 775 Pro-Mount Set (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dtfuinso775p.html) as well if you use a D-Tek Fuzion. I haven't tried it myself as I use the components that come with the FuZion.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/Pro-mount_dis_web.jpg

7/16" ID, 11/16" OD (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty7id11odlat.html). Offers the good water flow, best bending radius for it's size and smaller foot print then others designated for 1/2" barbs . This is 1" smaller then 1/2" ID 5/8" OD tubing. This allows for the best bend radius and can reduce the hindrance of airflow in the case (with larger OD tubing). You can go smaller if you like. Just make sure you buy the barbs that the same size of the ID (Inner Diameter) of the tubing. Tubing 7/6" ID will fit 1/2" barbing because Tygon tubing is a bit more gummy then other tubing. As a rule of thumb always get more then you need. I usually get 10' to be safe but that's for my PC, yours may vary.

10 Hose Clams, size G (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/heclnyhoclsi2.html). You can go smaller if you like. Just make sure you buy the barbs that the same size of the ID (Inner Diameter) of the tubing. Tubing 7/6" ID will fit 1/2" barbing because Tygon tubing is a bit more gummy then other tubing.
2 for the CPU WB
2 for the GPU WB
2 for the Radiator
2 for the Reservoir
2 for the pump
add 1 for a fill port
add 3 for a T-Line

D-Tek FuZion (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fuexpecpubl.html) CPU Water Block. This by far is the best water block money can buy. Please take note that the barbs are closer together then on most water blocks. Best way to install the tubing is to install the 1st tube into the barb then use a hose clamp to tighten it down. Then install the 2nd tube into the 2nd barb and use a hose clamp to tighten it down. That way you have enough room to fit both tubes when using 7/6" ID 11/16" OD. You will also need a retention bracket for the back of the MB. You never want to use the MB to tighten down the bolts for the CPU water block. UPDATE: D-Tek is now selling the modified version of the Fuzion called the Fuzion 2.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/FuZion-v2_layout.jpg

The EK Supreme (http://www.petrastechshop.com/eksuuncpuwa1.html) is a good alternate from the D-Tek Fuzion however, it's a bit more restrictive then the FuZion. Although the EK Supreme cools better the results seen so far are minuscule for the amount of restriction. If you buy this I also suggest a strong pump if you water cool more then just a cpu (IMO). A review of the EK Supreme vs Fuzion and a few other blocks can be found here (http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/cases_cooling/ek_supreme_cpu_water_block/4)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/ek_supreme1.jpg

Maze5 GPU (http://www.dangerden.com/store/home.php?cat=18). Best GPU Water on the market from what I know. I offer this over competitors as it's reliable and works well with either bare gpu die or gpu die that has a IHS.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/maze4gpufull.jpg

You could get the FuZion-GFX VGA Water block (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dtekfuziongfx.html) but I read it's a bit restrictive. In any case you will need to buy short ramsinks (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/enbcbmlowprf.html) for your memory and ICs and pwm for a G80 (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcsmccokit.html) or these (http://www.svc.com/gt-ram-kit.html). You may need to do further research to find the correct ramsink for your video card.
Maze5
D-tek FuZion GFX 2
etc
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/Dtek_GPU2_4.jpg

PA 120.2 Radiator (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thpa2xhipera.html). One of the best radiator out there that allows for good cooling with low CFM fans. If you use radiators from other manufactures you may need a more powerful fan (one that has a higher CFM rating).
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/pa1202-375.jpg

Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Reservoir (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcre1.html). This res is mountable almost any were on your case. If for some reason you cannot use the 5 1/4 bay drive res this is the best alternative. Side note: always keep your Res at a higher elevation then your pump.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/reservoirbraquets-2.gif

Swiftech MCP655-B 12v DC Pump w/Tach Sensor (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpuw.html) variable speed pump. More reliable then others I've seen

Yate Loon Medium Speed Fan: D12SM-12 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=283&cat=0&page=1)
OR
Scythe SFF21E (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scsf49cfms12.html)
are good fans to consider. Below are some specs of a few 120x25mm fans
D12SM-12: 1,650rpm, 33dBA, 70.5CFM, 0.30A
The SFF21E: 1,200rpm, 20.1dBA, 49.0CFM, 0.15A
The SFF21F: 1,600rpm, 28.0dBA, 63.7CFM, 0.20A
Y1225SL12H: 1,600 rpm, 33.00 dBA, 88.11CFM, 0.41 A

In all, you will spend over $340 for this. But you have 2 options. Buy it all now (looking elsewhere if you like) or buy something cheaper and realizing later on that you have to spend a bit more money to get the best cooling without the noise (as some of us already done). The WBs, res and rad should all come with barbs. If not make sure you get 1/2" ID barbs.

Alternate Hardware

Custom "iandh" ATI 4870 Memory & VRM HS
Sidewinder (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/cuiati48mevr.html) and Petra's Tech Shop (http://www.petrastechshop.com/cuhdcokitbyi.html) have them in stock. If you decide to buy this make sure you have some sort of active cooling (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3251416&postcount=44) though.

12v DC Power Supply with Single Molex Connector (http://www.jab-tech.com/12v-DC-Power-Supply-with-Single-Molex-Connector-pr-3776.html) which can be used to connect your 4-pin molex pump to without having to worry about stressing your PSU if you are not sure it's up to the task. One note though, this unit does not start with the PC.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/d_3569.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/number2.jpg

There is another unit which can start when the PC is turned out without using the PSU as a power source called the Pump Relay Switch Kit v3 (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/pureswkitv3.html). As you can see this unit requires a bit more installation and is not as straight forward as the prior solution.

DangerDen's G1/4 fatboy (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=318&cat=34&page=1) barbs can decrease pressure drop over standard barbs (so far). They are little pricey but from the results (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/Thermochill-PA-120_3-Review.html) so far (compared to EK's barbs) they do the job well IMO. If you have the money to spare I would suggest converting all your barbs over to Fatboys. In a common watercooling setup you would need:
-2 for the CPU WB
-2 for the GPU WB
-2 for the Radiator. G3/8 barbs for Thermochill PA series rads. You can get them here (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=352&cat=34&page=1)
-2 for the Reservoir
OR
-3 for a T-line
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/G14fatboy.jpg

D5 Pump (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=175&cat=4&page=1). I believe that the D5 and the Swiftech MCP655 pump are one and the same. Side note: placing this near your PC Case inlet fan can add to the longevity of the pump IMO.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/laingd5.png

PA120.3 Radiator (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thpa3xra.html). I will not kid you, this is the most expensive radiator but for good reason. Consider this an investment, not a purchase. I've been through 2 different kinds of radiators and none of them compete with the efficiency of cooling your video/cpu using low power fans then this radiator. If you buy a cheaper rad be prepared to buy a higher cfm fan to get similar cooling performance (thus more noise). You might get away with a ThermoChill PA120.2 (which is a 2 fan radiator) but I make no guarantees. Only choice that rad if you simply don't have the room for a PA120.3 rad. Please bare in mind that you are adding 2-3 more fans to your PC setup. The added noise of those fans are inevitable. If you have a problem with "noise" or believe that you will reduce "noise" with water cooling it's better to keep what you have.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/pa1203.jpg

OR

Swiftech MCR320-QP (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcqupo3xbl.html) is a great alternate choice if you want something a little cheaper. This radiator is also designed to use low to medium CFM fans however offer a slightly higher pressure drop then Thermochill's offerings.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/MCR320QP.gif

OR

Feser Xchanger 360 (http://www.feser-one.com/site/index.php?cPath=80)
Features
- Water Channels and Fins made out of Cu Copper Material
- Brass Water Chambers
- Black Finish (5µm)
- G1/4" Threads
- Mounting Screws for Case (4/8/12)
- Mounting Screws for Fan (4/8/12)
- Silicon Pads (1/2/3)
- Bleed Valve Screw
- Stamped TFC – Xchanger Logo
- ColorBox Packaging
- Warranty Card
- Serial Number with Holographic Sticker
- Sealed in VCI Bag - 5 Years Corrosion Protection
- 3 Years Warranty
- Compatible with all available Watercooling Systems
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/Feser_Xchanger360.jpg

RADBOX (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/mciraho.html). Consider this if you want to mount your rad on the rear of your case. It can support the PA120.3 rad.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/radbox-installation-mockup-.gif

PCI Power Bracket (http://www.jab-tech.com/PCI-Power-Bracket-OK302-pr-2670.html). This is a fan management PCI bracket that allows you to connect either 2 molex, 2, 3 pin fans or a combination of 2 moles and 2 3-pin fans. This bracket goes with with those who mount their radiators on the outside rear of their case.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/d_1490.jpg

Scythe SFF21F 63 CFM S-FLEX (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scsf63cfms12.html). This is a very good fan however it's a bit more expensive then the Yate Loons but offer higher CFM with lower noise.

Bay Style Reservoirs (http://www.dangerden.com/store/home.php?cat=27). This type of reservoir comes in handy when you are not interested in moding a res in your case. All you do it insert this into one of your 5 1/4" drive bay and your pretty much done.

3/4" Hole Saw (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100495376&N=10000003+90401). This allows you to create holes in your PC case so you can route tubing in and out of your case. It's a minor modification to your case and shouldn't take way from it's appearance if performed correctly. You will need a powerful drill to use this device. This "should" come with a drill bit. This sort of modification creates bits and chips of metal. It's best to remove your MB when performing this task. Then place cloth on the outside and inside of your work area to catch as much material as possible without having to do a whole lot of clean up afterward.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/6b0a73e8-121c-4929-b8de-e5d28fe9d34.jpg

Rubber Grommet (http://www.frozencpu.com/search.html?mv_profile=keyword_search&mv_session_id=33gq39KJ&searchspec=ruber&go.x=0&go.y=0). This is used to cover the sharp edge of the hole created by the hole saw.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/ele-225.jpg

Other Water Cooling Kits can be had at:
Aqua Computers (http://www.aqua-computer.de/e_index.htm)
&
Koolance (http://www.koolance.com/default.php)

But IMO you may pay within the ballpark of what I suggested.

Personal Note
The example I posted above is what I consider "typical" of why some may buy when water cooling their PC. It is still up to you to research your options and found out what works best for you (be it different rad/res, smaller tubing, barbs, etc). Water cooling your PC is NOT for everyone and you need to take that into consideration before you start investing the money in water cooling.

This is personal preference/hobby more then anything else. Right now it's winter time and a small crack in the window or turn off the heater can allow you for good OC'ing with HSF combo. It's the summer time you have to prepare for. It's not the OC potential but the stability while OC'd that is important. Again, depending or environmental setup (ambient temps, dust, etc) this is more hobby then necessity. In the end, you will have to figure out were to mount your rad, place your pump/res and line your tubing. Remember, because you are adding more fans it won't get quieter then before. Also, with 45nm Intel CPUs coming out water cooling is not as important as in days past. But for any quad core 45nm CPU I still recommend it over air for good OC'ing results.

As for high end video cards I found that water cooling is more a necessity then luxury. Even though the die size of GPUs are decreasing (with rumors of next gen video cards having 45nm GPUs) heat is still prevalent enough to warrant it's use. The best water block one can use are those that cover the GPU only. If for some reason you decided on another video card you should be able to use the same water block with a different installation kit. If you buy a full cover water block you are stuck with that make/model of video cards. One thing that most people forget is that the PMW/Mosfets of all video cards need active cooling. I have found no water block that actively cools the PWM/mosfets of a video card other then the GPU (including full size water blocks). It has been my experience that a fan is essential in cooling the PWM/mosfets of a video card and can aid in increase performance in most games.

It's hard for me to gauge what temps you would get but for me using a E6870 at 3.6 I am around 40C during games (also cooling my video card). Not sure if you will get that with air. As with any PC modding you do this at your own risk.

TIPS
When bleeding the water cooling line, it best to do so without the PC being turned on. You can do this by shorting 2 wires on your 24 pin connector. It's the 4th green wire and 5th/6th black wire (I use the 6th black wire). You do this with a simple paper clip illustrated below:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/mbtippost7.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/20-pin.jpg
The above is 20 pin connector however, you should be able to do this on a 24 pin connector.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/wc_24pin_2.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/24-pin.jpg
This will allow you to use the rear PSU toggle switch as an on/off switch for your pump without having to turn on the entire PC. You may have to turn the pump on and off a few times to completely bleed the line as it may sometimes stall (IE water no longer moves inside the tubing).

It's a good idea to flush any new radiator with hot distilled water to remove any flux (or other materials) that maybe left in the radiator. I recommend that you do not use VINEGAR. It has a tendency to dissolve some of the materials in your rad. A tall tale sign is that the vinegar will turn a light blue color after prolong use.

From what I read it's better to stick to all copper if possible. Aluminum and Copper is a bad combination. Some advise to use anti-freeze when using copper and aluminum however, it's better to stay as far away from that combination as possible.

Try to stick to 1 size for the tubing and barb.

Use 90 degree fittings (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=259&cat=95&page=1) when the angle causes the tubing to deform.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/90_with_fitting_100.jpg

Use T-line (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=239&cat=95&page=1) when you are sure that a reservoir is not an option. T-line loops take longer to bleed and require a lot of attention. It may take hour(s) to completely bleed a T-line which may require you to add more fluid at the "T" during that time.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/image.jpg

You will also need to a fill port (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=244&cat=35&page=1) if you are going to use a T-line. It's better to find a place on top of your PC Case and hole saw a permanent spot for your fill port.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/top_100.jpg

Chipset and mosfet water blocks are not always require (and sometimes hard to find for your motherboard). IMO, it may be better to use a 40mm fan (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/50milfan.html) on your north/south bridge chipset.

Distilled water offers the best coolings cooling solution. However, you want to prevent algae growth. You can use either a drop of PT Nuke (http://www.petrastechshop.com/pepcobi1.html) or 91% alcohol.

Radiators should remain vertical when installed for optimal cooling (unless noted otherwise by the manufacture). Radiators cool more effectively when air is circulated from outside the case.

After 3-4 days remove the cap from your reservoir to make sure there is no air pressure build up. I had this happen to me and one tall tale sign was the tubing was a lot warmer (nearly hot) then normal. The cap popped open when unscrewing it. No problems occurred as a result however, I am still looking into why that happened.

Even though a reservoir reduces the amount of bleed time (considerably) it's always a good idea to shake the radiator a few times to remove any air pockets and make sure that your loop is using the full extent of your radiator.

When connecting your water blocks, reservoir and radiator it's always a good idea to leave a small amount of slack to your loop. If you buy a new video card, water block or case you may in fact still be able to re-use your loop. However, this only applies when you know you are upgrading after you water cool your PC.

When applying thermal compound I found that I got the lowest temps if I used the line method for a dual core CPU. The line should follow the same path as the die under the IHS. C2D cpus have curved notches at each end of he CPU that guides it into the socket. The line method should also follow that same path. Which will be from the top of the writing on the IHS to the bottom.

When bleeding your loop it's best to place a few hand towels, tee-shirts, paper towels, etc inside your PC Case and let bleed for at least 30 minutes before you turn your PC on (regardless if you have a T-line or reservoir). This should prevent any damage to your PC if a leak is found and the hand towels, tee-shirts, etc should absorb any droplets found. However, if there is a leak always use a hair dryer around the area the leak was found and do a complete overlap of your motherboard, video card and ram area.

Spreading it Thin TIM Roundup 2007 (http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=635)
apply thermal compound (http://overclockers.com/articles1529/)
IMO there are 3 non AS5 thermal compounds that appear to provide the lowest temps:
MX-2
TX-2
IC Diamond 7 Carat Thermal Compound

The best methods for applying thermal compound on your IHS is either the dollop method (pea size not grain size) and line method (for dual/quad core). When installing the heat sink it's best to place it on top of the thermal compound (which is on top of the IHS) and give it a full 180 degree twist in both left and right direction. Then proceed to mount the heatsink.
For an exposed die the spread method and dollop method (grain size) should work.

- Make sure you bleed the setup before you start your PC. Look at the water cooling thread already mentioned on how. It only requires a paper clip and the 20/24 pin PSU connector shorting the green and black wires in order to do it correctly. That will allow you to start the PSU using it's power switch instead of the PC Case on/off button

- When bleeding make sure you shake the rad (in which means shaking the entire PC Case) in order to remove any air pockets. If you use a res and I believe you are this won't take long.

- After you bleed your loop wait about 5 days then remove the screw to remove any back pressure that has build up. If the sound of the pressure is loud enough to remind you of opening a soda bottle then repeat the process again 5 days later to make sure there is no more back pressure in your loop.

- Make sure you tighten down the tubing on those barbs with a metal worm or plastic hose clamp (make sure you get the correct size). Some have used zip ties but I can't honestly recommend them. The reason is that if you ever have to have to remove the tubing from the barb after several weeks/months of use the tubing has a tendency to reshape itself into the size of the barb. This makes the tubing diameter larger thus loosing it's tight fitting around the barb. This is where having a metal worm or those plastic hose clamps come into play. They ensure that tubing doesn't leak even when it deforms to the shape of the barb.

- I suggest at least a 650W single rail PSU. Two that come to mind are Corsair or PC Power and Cooling.

- IMO, get fans that offer no less then 49-50 CFM. I have found that even though my PA 120.3 works well with low CFM fans I obtain better results with a higher CFM. I have noticed this most during the hot summer months.

- Which tubing you pick does matter. Some will bend well while others will not. Nothing will every frustrate you more then putting your loop together and realizing at the completion of your loop that you have a serious kink restricting water and creating bubbles :mad:. Therefore, if you go with 1/2" barb then using tubing that is 7/6" ID 11/16" OD for example.

- IMHO, only use distilled water with a few drops of PT Nuke should keep the algae growth, etc in check.
- Don't mix copper and aluminum in your water loop.

Disclaimer: You water cool at your own risk. Also, the information presented in this post is not a personal recommendation.

DaMulta

02-09-2008, 01:08 AM

Any water cooling users out there?

O I water cool. I'll post all my stuff that I'm using tomorrow. I bet this thread could help a lot of people.

mrw1986

02-09-2008, 01:08 AM

Nice guide and nice setup of this club! Once I start WC'ing I will certainly join!

tigger

02-09-2008, 01:13 AM

Nice little write up there mate.

I will be going water soon.I already have a apogee gt cpu block,i was planning on the ek full cover block for my 3850 and a thermo :rockout: 120.2 radiator and a ddc ultra pump.I was considering 1/2" tubing,but i mite consider going smaller on that front.

intel igent

02-09-2008, 03:14 PM

im in! :rockout:

i think i was the first watercooler on these here forums :o

was already L/C when i joined, been L/C since late '04 early '05 :cool:

ive been running basically the same loop the whole time. i just added a second rad + pump.

my loop consists of:

1) swiftech stormG4 (original)

2) maze5

3) swiftech mcr-220

4) modded chevette H/C

5) 2 ported top mcp-650's in series

6) 2 panaflo ultras and 1 panaflo medium all in pull config

7) 1/2" primoflex UV blue and T-line

8) distilled/glycol mixed 90/10

all INSIDE an antec plusview! i just finished modding it, again :rolleyes:

im just waiting on a few small things to get her buttoned back up.

i have my chevette H/C in the front @ the bottom and the mcr-220 is on the top stuck to some lexan :)

loop order goes t-line > pump1 > pump2 > cpu > mcr-220 > maze4 > H/C > t-line

i have a drain plug inbetween the 2 pumps. i needed to use elbows so i purchased some nice brass 3/4" id ones along with the 3/4" id T. i found them @ canadian tire for like $1.50 ea :p

any q's just ask :)

:toast:

intel igent

02-10-2008, 04:25 PM

every1 afraid to get wet?

DOM

02-10-2008, 06:30 PM

D-TEK FuZion CPU Waterblock - 1/2" with D-Tek FuZion Accelerator Nozzle Kit

D-Tek FuZion GFX GPU Waterblock

2X Swiftech MCW30 Chipset Water-block

Danger Den Bay Reservoir High-Density Polyethylene

PrimoChill Radiator Xtreme Series 360

Swiftech MCP655™ 12 VDC Pump

Tygon 3603 Tubing 1/2" ID 3/4" OD

6X Thermaltake Thunderblade 120mm Blue LED Case Fans - Sleeved

Swiftech MCB-120™ Rev. 2 Radbox

intel igent

02-10-2008, 06:40 PM

what nozzle/s are you using with the fuzion?

how restrictive do you find ur loop using both fuzion blocks?

:toast:

DOM

02-10-2008, 06:49 PM

what nozzle/s are you using with the fuzion?

how restrictive do you find ur loop using both fuzion blocks?

:toast:
well I forgot which one I have in :p but I think im going to change it after seeing this but its not to bad keeps load on my cpu under 65 at 75F room temp at 1.568v and card under 50 at 1.6v

D-Tek Fuzion Nozzle Kit Pressure Drop Test Results (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168551&)

intel igent

02-10-2008, 07:01 PM

martin & Co are really doing some excellent work over there.

would be nice to see the same kind of interest here on our forums.

some of that stuff is beyond me but i like to read it and try to understand the same

:toast:

DOM

02-10-2008, 07:07 PM

yeah theres alot of good stuff there but I think alot of ppl here dont have the money and time I would if I was to get payed :rolleyes: need the extra cash since we make to much to get the big bucks during tax returns :wtf: that even with next yr my baby girl is going to be on it the gov. is fucked up

so which nozzle do you think I should use on by the chart

intel igent

02-10-2008, 07:14 PM

we will soon be at their level ;) the forum here is much newer and not as "exposed" as they are to that level of members. YET.

have you installed the washer to stop the internal leakage?

id run the least restrictive (5.5?) nozzle seeing as youve got the fuzion GFX as well

erocker

02-11-2008, 12:28 AM

EastCoasthandle

02-11-2008, 04:21 AM

Thanks for the thread first of all, it's going to come in mighty handy when I decide to run God-forsaken coolant through my system. As a mechanic I must say the most hated job for me is anything coolant related. I'll get over it someday. Thanks for the info though!:toast:

:toast:
thanks

Side note:
If some of you like a little color to your loop don't buy that stuff to color your liquid, just get the tubing that comes in the color you like. Primoflex offers a few different colors found at:
Performance PC (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=292&zenid=26bfe1458c8a9b0bf7b7727b558a2ad2)
xoxide (http://www.xoxide.com/wacotu.html)

Summary:

Overall, the best tubing for kink resistance is one which has the thickest walls in proportion to it's diameter with the highest durometer being a second consideration. Thus the Tygon R-3603 7/16" ID with 11/16" OD (1/8" wall thickness) provides the best kink resistance of the tubing suitable for 1/2" barbs. For 3/8" tubing, the Primoflex 3/8" ID - 5/8" OD (1/8" wall) is by far the best choice for kink resistance on tight bends.
Review of tubing here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2405432&postcount=1)

Fitseries3

02-11-2008, 04:49 AM

hey... count me in. i've done 12 builds from scratch now and 8 have been dual loop systems.

my latest setup is...

silvertone TJ07
2 laing d5's
d-tek fusion
2 swiftech mcw-30's
TC PA120.3
TC PA120.2
3 danger den 8800gtx blocks
swiftech mcres-micro
clearflex 7/16'' tubing

dual loop setup... one for GPU's and one for CPU/NB/SB

Fitseries3

02-11-2008, 05:03 AM

if someone could give me an idea i could get it done.

Fitseries3

02-11-2008, 05:19 AM

i'll give it a try. im going to catch some sleep here for a bit.... then i'll see what i can do.

intel igent

02-11-2008, 04:54 PM

WOO-HOO!

were like a chia pet!

just add WATER :laugh:

:rockout:

:toast:

NONYA

02-12-2008, 08:06 AM

Wile E

02-12-2008, 08:26 AM

oily_17

02-12-2008, 08:48 AM

Count me in too -this is my first go at WC so went with a Swiftech H20 Apex Ultra Watercooling Kit -wanted to keep it simple for my first attempt.Also using a Alphacool Cape Coolplex Pro external reservoir with the RAD mounted outside the case as well.

Also have Tygon 3/8" tubing squeezed on to 1/2" barbs -was the only tubing I had at the time but works fine and definitely no leaks :D

Also plan on WC my next rig which will be built around a Asus Maximus Extreme mobo,have to get some funds together first though.

Dangle

02-13-2008, 06:03 AM

Hey, I neeeeed to get into water cooling! Plz Help!

joker71

02-13-2008, 06:18 AM

i have bought the zalman reserator XT and i can say its one of the best there is it cools my rig to the bone

cpu : normal 45C on the aircooler now on watercooling its 28C
videocard: normal 60C now on watercooling its 45C
chipset: normal 58C now on watercooling (mosfet,northbridge & southbridge) 30C

so i can tell u this is one of the best there is and i have all zalman coolers in my rig it took me about 3 hours to install the system but its worth it :respect:

Dr. Spankenstein

02-13-2008, 06:39 AM

Can I play too...

This was my old setup. Most components still in the new layout: PrimoFlex tubing, Liang D5, Black Ice Extreme 120.3.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/OldSetup.jpg

Danger Den MC-TDX and 975x Maze4...

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Blocks.jpg

My old 1950XT with a Danger Den Tyee full-coverage block.:rockout:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Card.jpg

My new layout. Suspended HDD in the 5.25" bays. They are cooled by a 120mm Noctua.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/HDDSuspend.jpg

My first case mod. Boy was it ugly!:eek:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/TopExhaust.jpg

The Black Ice Extreme 120.3 straped with 3 120mm High CFM Panaflo and aluminum mesh filters. The risers are just glazed corner tiles from Loew's.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Rad287.jpg

The goods. I've only got my one volt modded HD 3870 in right now, soon to be rockin' the dual 1GHz core Crossfire.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Interior.jpg

Just using distilled water and a couple drops of PT Nuke.

intel igent

02-13-2008, 06:44 AM

somebody call a Dr!

oh wait.............. :roll:

whats suspending the HDD's?

nice rig ;)

heres mine finally

http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/1341.html

its not up and running ATM just waiting a couple of things

:toast:

Dr. Spankenstein

02-13-2008, 06:59 AM

Just left my vote.

I say it again: That is one TOUGH looking rig!:toast:

tiys

02-13-2008, 02:10 PM

does stock cooling count ? :laugh:

Wile E

02-13-2008, 04:00 PM

Can I play too...

This was my old setup. Most components still in the new layout: PrimoFlex tubing, Liang D5, Black Ice Extreme 120.3.
http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/OldSetup.jpg

Danger Den MC-TDX and 975x Maze4...

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Blocks.jpg

My old 1950XT with a Danger Den Tyee full-coverage block.:rockout:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Card.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/HDDSuspend.jpg
My first case mod. Boy was it ugly!:eek:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/TopExhaust.jpg

The Black Ice Extreme 120.3 straped with 3 120mm High CFM Panaflo and aluminum mesh filters. The risers are just glazed corner tiles from Loew's.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Rad287.jpg
The goods. I've only got my one volt modded HD 3870 in right now, soon to be rockin' the dual 1GHz core Crossfire.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080213/Interior.jpg

Just using distilled water and a couple drops of PT Nuke.How well does that MC-TDX perform? I'm thinking of switching cpu blocks.

And can anyone comment on my post #27?

intel igent

02-13-2008, 04:14 PM

How well does that MC-TDX perform? I'm thinking of switching cpu blocks.

And can anyone comment on my post #27?

have you tried to "bow" your block?

are you using a backplate?

id swap out the rad to an mcr-series. what fans are you using?

do you have the modded tops for your pump?

i think that MC-TDX will perform 1c-3c better than your current block

do you have any pix of your setup?

anybody thats wanting help just ask, someone will be glad to assist

:toast:

Wile E

02-13-2008, 04:23 PM

have you tried to "bow" your block?

are you using a backplate?

id swap out the rad to an mcr-series. what fans are you using?

do you have the modded tops for your pump?

i think that MC-TDX will perform 1c-3c better than your current block

do you have any pix of your setup?

anybody thats wanting help just ask, someone will be glad to assist

:toast:
Sorry, no pix. But the loop is very straightforward, with no kinks or excess tubing.

I can't believe I forgot to list the fans. lol. 3xSilverstone FM-122B's. PLenty of flow potential, but cranking the speed seems to have little effect.

No, my pump doesn't have a mod top, but that was one of the things I was considering. I was also considering running 2 in series without mod tops. With a single pump and a top, I could switch to 1/2" tubing, but with 2 pumps, I'll have to stick to 3/8" and the 1/2" to 3/8" reducers at the rad. Then there's also the consideration that a top will cost me a little money, whereas the 2 pump setup would be free, due to the spare 2 pumps I have.

And no, I'm not using a backplate, nor did I try to bow the block. Those are 2 very good suggestions actually. Didn't even consider them. My quad does seem a bit concave, judging by the way the tim spreads.

That leads me to my next question, how do you bow a block? lol. This is honestly the first chip I've ever had that seems a little concave.

intel igent

02-13-2008, 04:32 PM

Wile E

02-13-2008, 04:48 PM

those silverstone fans are not idael for rad application they have low static pressure which inhibits their performance

ill just post the link but youll have to do the digging :p im off to do an EMG :shadedshu

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70 <fan reviews, how to's, guides and more ;)

plz no haters, just collaborators ;)

:toast:Man, thanks again. That was a kick-ass link. I now know I'll be replacing the fans with YL D12SH-12's from Petras, and I'll just slap them on a cheapo controller.

What does everybody think of my pump situation, and how do you "bow" a block?

EastCoasthandle

02-13-2008, 04:54 PM

I WC as well.

Right now I have a modest setup.

CPU: Swiftech Apogee GT
RAD: Black Ice Extreme 360 (the original version with fixed 1/2" barbs)
PUMP: Laing DDC-1
RES: Swiftech Microres

Tubing is 3/8" with 1/2" to 3/8" reducers at the rad.

I really need to upgrade a couple of things. Firstly, I think I might need a better cpu block. It seems heat transfer isn't happening quickly enough with this Apogee GT. My quad shoots up to with 3-5C of it's max load temp the instant it encounters 100% load. As such, I have a hard time getting it to run above 1.5V stably. I can push 1.6 for some light benching, but that's usually only good for a couple of minutes, like a 3dMark06 run.

I load to 56C on my hottest core in Prime95 @ 1.5V 3.6GHz.

My other thought is that perhaps I don't have enough flow in my loop. I actually have 3 DDC-1s sitting around here total, so I was thinking of using 2 in my loop (in series, of course)

It just seems to me I should be getting better temps than this. I've seem some air coolers doing this well.

I should also mention that I reseated my block numerous times.
What's your thoughts on this guys? Any tips?

-If the situation has worsen then what you are normally seeing, I suggest that you disasemble the WB to see if the cooling surface is clogged and oriented correctly, look here (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/apogee-tweaking.asp).
-Feel the tubing while the computer is one. Is it room temperature or is it warmer then normal? If it is warmer then normal you may have air pockets. Shake the rad a few times to see if bubbles appear in the loop. Also loosen the reservoir to see if there is air pressure there as well.
-I was never fond of the GT. But it's better then the storm and TDX.

Side note: Don't bow the WB it isn't worth it. And once it's bowed it stays that way.

oily_17

02-13-2008, 04:56 PM

@Wile E - To bow the base on your Swiftech CPU block, they supply a thicker rubber O ring that you have to replace the original with.Can be quite fiddly to get the base and top back together without the thicker O ring slipping out on you -or at least that's what I found.
Only achieved about a 2c drop in temps with it bowed.

EDIT: I think I will go MC-TDX on my next build as well.

Wile E

02-13-2008, 05:03 PM

My only suggestion is to try the Dtek FuZion. Is your rad inside or outside your case?

Side note: Don't bow the WB it isn't worth it. And once it's bowed it stays that way.
Rad is on the outside.

So you do think the block is the culprit?

And what of the pump setup? I know reducers are a bit restrictive, so I thought it might be a possible flow issue.

EastCoasthandle

02-13-2008, 05:09 PM

Rad is on the outside.

So you do think the block is the culprit?

And what of the pump setup? I know reducers are a bit restrictive, so I thought it might be a possible flow issue.

-If the situation has worsen then what you are normally seeing, I suggest that you disassemble the WB to see if the cooling surface is clogged and oriented correctly, look here (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/apogee-tweaking.asp).
-Feel the tubing while the computer is on. Is it room temperature or is it warmer then normal? If it is warmer then normal you may have air pockets. Shake the rad a few times to see if bubbles appear in the loop. Also remove the reservoir's cap to see if there is air pressure there as well.
-I was never fond of the GT. But it's better then the storm and TDX.
-Ambient temps also play a role. Is it warm/hot in the room?
-I would also consider remounting the WB to the C2Q CPU and use the line method when installing the thermal compound.

C2Q Line Method
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/AS5/AS5_Quadcore.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/AS5/AS5_Quadcore2.jpg

C2D
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/AS5/AS5_Install.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/AS5/AS5_C2D.jpg

Wile E

02-13-2008, 05:33 PM

Used the line method for my tim. I originally used a dot in the center, but later reseated using the line method, and the results were excellent. On the order of 7C under load.

My tubing is at room temp, and the room is about 18-19C.

Guess I'll have to do a tear-down, and check my block.

This also could be a matter of Quads just running way hotter than I'm used to seeing. Is 56C under prime95 load a good temp for 1.5V on a Q6600?

Sorry for all the Q's people. I appreciate the help.

EastCoasthandle

02-13-2008, 07:23 PM

Judas

02-14-2008, 09:33 PM

I'm on water also... :)

EastCoasthandle

02-14-2008, 09:39 PM

Im going to H20 for the first time I was looking at this kit on newegg...
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16835108100
or...
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16835128015
Im only interested in cooling the CPU right now,if you had $120 to spend could you beat these kits in cooling performance with a parts build?I want to order from NE since they owe me shipping charges from my last botched order but its not out of the question to order from another vendor as long as they are in the US.Thanx
A good pump alone would account for nearly half the cost of the kit. That's the point of wc kits, they are cost effective. They may not offer the best cooling solution but at that price you get slightly better performance then a HSF on a hot summer day.

intel igent

02-14-2008, 09:50 PM

I'm on water also... :)

welcome :)

got any pix?

:toast:

Judas

02-15-2008, 07:01 PM

sorry no pictures as of yet :p

got my new EK-Supreme - Acetal block today fairly impressive only been on for a few hrs and the temps seem much better :)

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/cases_cooling/ek_supreme_cpu_water_block/1

with my old swiftech Apogee™ GT with processor at 3.2 ghz (idle temps)

http://img.techpowerup.org/080215/speedfan gt.jpg

And the new EK-Supreme with processor at 3.2 ghz (idle temps)

http://img.techpowerup.org/080215/speedfan EK-Supreme - Acetal.jpg

intel igent

02-16-2008, 04:50 PM

trade a little flow for some restriction, and blammo!

7 deg less!

nice what are load temps?

AsRock

02-17-2008, 08:22 PM

I like to know if the Thermochill is actually worth near $100 over the Swiftech version

ThermoChill PA120.3 ($134.99)
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thpa3xra.html

Swiftech MCR320-QP ($44.99)
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108098

Any idea's on a good 2900XT block too ?

Thanks.

Dr. Spankenstein

02-17-2008, 09:56 PM

Kinda "apples to oranges", the ThermoChill is a dual-row, dual-pass rad and the Swify is a single-row, dual-pass rad.

So depending on your cooling needs, it may be a waste or a good investment.
Say you've got a P4 OC'd to 5GHz, a X1900XT block and a NB block in your loop: the Swifty is not going to cut the mustard. But if you are running a E8400 at a modest OC and have a video card with a smaller fab core, it would work.

Now looking at your specs: that Manchester and your 2900XT are producing major heat. I wouldn't skimp on the rad. There is a middle ground between the two you linked.

I'm quite partial to my Black Ice Extreme triple. Quite affordable and works well. (Not the most quiet rad, but then again I've got three 86.5 CFM Panaflos wailing away on mine!)

AsRock

02-17-2008, 10:14 PM

Dia01

02-18-2008, 01:36 AM

I've been watercooling for over a year now. I have over time decided to keep my loops as basic as possible as maintenance and mod's just become to painful with too much tubing and joins. I was watercooling a 680i NB, SB, dual ram and SLI 8800GT's. The CPU was cooled by a Coolit Freezone. I had since had a water cooling incident which obliterated my 680i mobo and sacrificed a 8800GT. I now only water cool the CPU and the SLI 8800GT's running on an Asus 780 Striker II. I decided to remove the Freezone as condensation was forming around the chiller unit due to the excessive heat output of the mobo's mosfet heatsink and plus I could not fit an active fan to the heatsink with the Freezone in place. I had no choice but to reduce power to the peltiers which made no sense to keep in the system as air cooling was doing a similar job. I have stayed with Koolance products, there are better performing products are out there I know. I like the range of fittings plus I don't like to mix and matck blocks and the performance isn't that bad. :D

Dr. Spankenstein

02-18-2008, 01:39 AM

Thanks.. Nice to know and that it does a lot better than if needed. So a Thermochill would be a better investment to if i decide to add more to the loop..

Well the CPU is not that hot 42c max in a room temp of 95f in summer.

42C at full load with the overclock you have in your System Specs?:eek:

What do you need water cooling for?!?:rolleyes:

Fitseries3

02-18-2008, 01:42 AM

thermochill = kick ass!!! i have every one of their rads and they are RAD!!!
i use my... PA160.1 for quads on my bench
PA120.1 for duals on my bench
PA120.2 is im my main rig cooling my cpu/NB/SB/VRM loop
PA120.3 is used in my main rig for cooling GPU(s). (waiting for my EK3870x2 blocks)

ALSO... many people build great water cooling systems but very few people remember to plan ahead and THINK ABOUT HOW THEY WILL DRAIN THEIR LOOP!!!
just a reminder.... because it's a PITA to drain a loop when you forgot to plan it out right.

CrAsHnBuRnXp

02-18-2008, 02:04 AM

Fitseries3

02-18-2008, 02:07 AM

if your not changing or adding/removing blocks then no.

CrAsHnBuRnXp

02-18-2008, 02:14 AM

if your not changing or adding/removing blocks then no.

Nope. Just the card/chip itself.

That was one thing holding me back.

If/when I go water, I want to get this case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133024). Just wish it didnt come with all the w/c stuff. At least the option to opt out.

AsRock

02-18-2008, 02:26 AM

42C at full load with the overclock you have in your System Specs?:eek:

What do you need water cooling for?!?:rolleyes:

Ahh it's not for the CPU well not at this time at least it's for my 2900XT i am getting annoyed with due to a few things. Which would be solved if ATI's CC allowed to to manually adjust the fan settings.

For example
If Riva Tuner is running it will crash the system if the GPU hits 90c\95c
Using just ATI's CCC the fan annoys me due to it starting up stopping starting and so on.
Ati Tool does the job well but has bugs that some times when a game is
minimize then maximize the fan don't speed up likes it been told too there fore leading to overheating \ GPU crashes and ATI Tool Crashes which ends up taking the game down too.

Been thinking of waiting for the R700 to come out but i think this current system will slow the dam thing down lol. But i cannot see that being any cooler not when all these people request companys it MUST be silent or i will not buy it.

EastCoasthandle

02-18-2008, 02:29 AM

Im going to ask a very stupid question (there are no stupid questions, just stupid people), so dont flame me.

When water cooling, do you have to completely empty out all the liquid to accomodate new parts? (eg. do you have to empty out the water to install a newer CPU? Same for GPU)

No, not if you leave enough slack in your loop to allow you to remove the waterblock from the screws. This is why it's important to leave some slack. As for the video card it may be inevitable to have to drain the loop in order to remove the gpu wb from the video card.

EastCoasthandle

02-18-2008, 05:49 PM

Wile E

02-19-2008, 06:07 AM

This is why you stick to distilled water (http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/2008/02/16/watercooling_fluid_shootout/4)

As you can see, from the fluids tested, distilled water comes out ahead, specially when you factor in cost.

Although MCT-40 and Feser 1 don't fair too badly. You should also mention that distilled water usually requires more frequent flushing. Not by a lot, but more none-the-less.

intel igent

02-19-2008, 06:48 AM

Although MCT-40 and Feser 1 don't fair too badly. You should also mention that distilled water usually requires more frequent flushing. Not by a lot, but more none-the-less.

had distilled water + glycol mixed 90/10 in use for over 2yrs without being flushed.

must of been something to do with flushing the loop prior to use and using similar metals :confused:

i think those fluids are not worth the money.

EastCoasthandle

02-19-2008, 01:36 PM

had distilled water + glycol mixed 90/10 in use for over 2yrs without being flushed.

must of been something to do with flushing the loop prior to use and using similar metals :confused:

i think those fluids are not worth the money.

For the amount of money your right.

Although MCT-40 and Feser 1 don't fair too badly. You should also mention that distilled water usually requires more frequent flushing. Not by a lot, but more none-the-less.

I honestly don't see the need to consistently flush your system unless you notice something odd like algae. A drop of PT Nuke (http://www.petrastechshop.com/pepcobi1.html) when you use distilled water should prevent that. I use a few drops of 91% alcohol (as I have a Cyclone 120 reservoir) with no ill effects for about a year now.

Original Post updated (includes signature)

Wile E

02-20-2008, 03:48 AM

For the amount of money your right.

I honestly don't see the need to consistently flush your system unless you notice something odd like algae. A drop of PT Nuke (http://www.petrastechshop.com/pepcobi1.html) when you use distilled water should prevent that. I use a few drops of 91% alcohol (as I have a Cyclone 120 reservoir) with no ill effects for about a year now.

Original Post updated (includes signature)

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, just posting a possible pitfall to using straight distilled water. I didn't mean to make it out to be a big deal. You might have to flush your loop out a month or two earlier without additives is all. I personally use straight distilled water. The performance of MCT-40 and Fester just surprised me.

EastCoasthandle

02-20-2008, 05:42 AM

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, just posting a possible pitfall to using straight distilled water. I didn't mean to make it out to be a big deal. You might have to flush your loop out a month or two earlier without additives is all. I personally use straight distilled water. The performance of MCT-40 and Fester just surprised me.

Oh, no I didn't take it that way, sorry if I sounded like I did. After the discussion I added PT Nuke to the OP. So, in a way I have you to thank for bring it up :toast:

CrAsHnBuRnXp

02-20-2008, 06:21 AM

Another noob question. How do you know what tube to put where? I know one is an intake and the other pushes it back out, but like where do you route the tubes (to and from) from teh CPU and GFX?

Fitseries3

02-20-2008, 06:23 AM

check out and help out....
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=666582

thanks in advance.

Wile E

02-20-2008, 06:26 AM

If I was doing a single loop with both the gpu and cpu, I'd go like this: Pump>CPU>GPU>Radiator>Reservoir>pump.

CrAsHnBuRnXp

02-20-2008, 06:57 AM

What if you were to add chipset into the mix?

Wile E

02-20-2008, 07:08 AM

What if you were to add chipset into the mix?

I would go pump>cpu>chipset>gpu>rad>res>pump.

But honestly, at that point, I would consider going with dual loops, or at least add another rad to the mix, so long as my pump was up to it.

intel igent

02-20-2008, 03:47 PM

Another noob question. How do you know what tube to put where? I know one is an intake and the other pushes it back out, but like where do you route the tubes (to and from) from teh CPU and GFX?

loop order doesnt really matter in a closed loop, but generally you want to use the shortest, straightest lengths of tubing as possible to achieve a clean looking and efficient loop.

you obviously want to make shure the outs go to the ins and vice-versa (to keep the flow flowing)

eg: pump out > cpu in > cpu out > rad in > rad out > GFX in > GFX out > pump in.

the order doesnt really matter just an idea so you get the point

:toast:

EastCoasthandle

02-21-2008, 12:19 AM

intel igent

02-26-2008, 04:21 PM

drip drip drip

Wile E

02-26-2008, 05:48 PM

drip drip drip

That was my loop like 2 weeks ago. Stupid reducers! :laugh:

I'm just about to order a Petra's or Alphacool top, and a new cpu block, so I can just convert to 1/2" (tho I'll probably run 7/16") tubing.

Any suggestions for a block for a quad, anyone?

Wile E

02-26-2008, 08:18 PM

intel igent

02-27-2008, 06:31 AM

@ wileE: sux about the leak, good thing nothing was injured :)

pump tops, freshly posted:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178575

:toast:

Wile E

02-27-2008, 07:15 AM

Actually, I went out on a limb, and decided to try a newcomer to the DDC pump top game. http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201&products_id=22629

And I decided against getting a new cpu block for now. I'm gonna make the conversion to 1/2" first, and see if that helps at all.

I also ordered a Maze 5 for my gpu. I stuck with it because I know it's very widely compatible.

Now, next debate, I have 2 ways I can run the gpu. I can run it in the loop with my cpu, or I can set it up on it's own independant 3/8" loop, with a single 120mm rad. I don't really want to raise my cpu temps, but I also don't want my gpu performance to suffer too much. I mean, it'd be pretty useless if the 120mm rad setup didn't get me any further than a good air cooler.

MKmods

02-27-2008, 07:19 AM

First to EastCoasthandle, that is the best first post I have ever read, excellent job!

to Wile E: with that huge case run dual setups.

I just built a Carbonfiber SLI LAN box (made my own GPU blocks)
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj169/mkmods/thDBCrossflow.jpg

calvary1980

02-27-2008, 07:26 AM

do you have the specs on the pump? your only running CPU and Video Card I don't see what the fuss is about.

- Christine

Wile E

02-27-2008, 07:32 AM

do you have the specs on the pump? your only running CPU and Video Card I don't see what the fuss is about.

- ChristineIt's a MCP-350/DDC-1. But I have no idea how that top is gonna perform.

And I'm worried about maximizing my setup, because I'm on OC Team Palit, and every Mhz counts for me, lest I lose my ride. So, I'm here getting opinions on what others might think is best.

Worse comes to worst, I'll just test it both ways, but it never hurts to ask before I waste time. lol.

calvary1980

02-27-2008, 07:38 AM

by the way love the thread but the plastic hose clamps on page 1 are horrible they can shift around or even come off and they are not necessary for 7/16" tubing often system builders will buy a pack of cables ties usually 4" black or white for cable management or fans they work great as clamps. I would also stay away from 90' fittings it will just add more restriction with Tygon Tubing you don't need Smart Coils or Fittings because the Tubing has a good bend radius. Pump is fine :)

- Christine

MKmods

02-27-2008, 07:38 AM

I use the MCP 355 with the Koolance top (better porting and more choices on hose posistion)
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=466

philbrown23

02-27-2008, 08:53 AM

Here's my kit!
1 D-tek FuZion with pro mount and accelerator nozzle kit
2 swifteck Mcpsomthing pump
3 3/8 id tubing with reducers for pump
4 swiftech mcr220/res soon to be fillport I'm just too lazy to drill the hole lol
and future switchout/addon of the mcr320 rad
2x yate loon 90cfm fans (Idon't mind the noise)

intel igent

02-27-2008, 03:42 PM

It's a MCP-350/DDC-1. But I have no idea how that top is gonna perform

have a look at my last post, i think its in there :o

what rad is the single 120? what fans? shroud or no shroud?

:toast:

DaMulta

02-27-2008, 03:52 PM

I am using this pump on 17v with my meanwell
DD12V-D5 Pump Fixed Speed (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=274&cat=23&page=1)

http://www.dangerden.com/store/files/images/pumps/d5/flow_pressure_24V_1600w.jpg

http://www.dangerden.com/store/files/images/pumps/d5/flow_pressure_12V_1600w.jpg

With the meanwell I can tell a huge differance in the way my pump runs.I just let it run 24/7 because it's not hurting anything. It sounds like a fish tank LOL.

intel igent

02-27-2008, 04:08 PM

@ DaMulta : D-5b? there is some question as to the actual setting of the pump as they are reported to be fixed at setting 4 but there have been a few instances reported of performance identical to setting 2, so be carefull ;)

i think the heat dump from yor pump at 17v would offset the perormance increase, 13.5v-14v is the sweet spot for your pump IIRC, 18v for an IWAKI ;)

@ phillbrown : get rid of the reducers and run 7/16th tubing with 1/2" barbs

:toast:

EastCoasthandle

02-27-2008, 10:37 PM

Ok guys, I've narrowed my cpu block choices down to either the D-Tek Fuzion, or the EK Surpreme. According to OC3D's review, the EK performs better on an OCed quad, but is much more restrictive. Like, almost as restrictive as the Storm.

And what are the recommendations for a gpu block? Never really did much research into them. MCW60 and Maze5 pop to ming immediately, but are there any better block for the price?

I would get the d-tek FuZion. I've tried a few in my time and the d-tek is a better WB IMO. The storm was a good block for a single die CPU and I loved it but it doesn't compare to the FuZion.

First to EastCoasthandle, that is the best first post I have ever read, excellent job!

to Wile E: with that huge case run dual setups.

I just built a Carbonfiber SLI LAN box (made my own GPU blocks)
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj169/mkmods/thDBCrossflow.jpg
Thanks :)
Not bad on the WB, are you a metal worker by trade?

by the way love the thread but the plastic hose clamps on page 1 are horrible they can shift around or even come off and they are not necessary for 7/16" tubing often system builders will buy a pack of cables ties usually 4" black or white for cable management or fans they work great as clamps. I would also stay away from 90' fittings it will just add more restriction with Tygon Tubing you don't need Smart Coils or Fittings because the Tubing has a good bend radius. Pump is fine :)

- Christine

I know you can use 7/16" tubing on 1/2" ID barbs without the fasteners (at first). However, over time the tubing begins to "mold" itself into the shape of the barb and it may keep it's seal however in my experience it can fail, losing it's seal and dumping a hard stream of water onto your PC. If you remove your tubing from the barb after a few months it typically will not reseal itself like it did the first time you tried it (when the tubing was in new condition). You will see the end of the tubing taking on the shape of the barb making a air/water tight seal impossible.

This is why I never recommend nor suggest installing tubing without fasteners. This is why the plastic fasteners are just fine, if they are loose and your hand is not strong enough to tighten it down, use a pair of wide moth pliers. If the plastic fasteners are to big/small then get the metal kind (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/brmihocl7int.html). However, these are a bit difficult to tighten down or un-tighten once the PC is put together for the video card and CPU WB as screwdriver is typically to long to properly maneuver. The plastic tighteners have an advantage in this avenue.

Fitseries3

02-27-2008, 10:39 PM

i've got a d-tek fusion currently as well as a DD MC-TDX and a swiftech apogee gt and the d-tek is the best overall in performance.

EastCoasthandle

02-28-2008, 03:53 AM

slight update to OP

DaMulta

02-28-2008, 06:26 AM

http://img.techpowerup.org/080228/untitled.jpg

Now my CPU voltage should read 1.56V.
My setup

DD12V-D5 Pump Fixed Speed (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=274&cat=23&page=1)

MEANWELL S-320-12 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=90&cat=32&page=1)
Black Ice GTX240 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=256&cat=90&page=1)
Copper TDX Block for AMD AM2 Processor (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=229&cat=21&page=1)
Chrome Version MAZE4GPU (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=164&cat=48&page=1)
Danger Den Single 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=52&cat=27&page=1)

DaMulta

02-28-2008, 06:49 AM

I also use tubing with nylon in it.

http://img.techpowerup.org/080228/wires 008.jpg

It's harder to fight leaks with it, but no crinks in the tubes.

Also I have found it easier to just get one of these (http://www.atacom.com/program/print_html_new.cgi?&USER_ID=www&cart_id=7491760_207_155_35_86&Item_code=POWS_ANTE_PW_TE)http://www.atacom.com/html3/POWS/graphics/ANTEC_TESTER.jpg to bleed the system.
It's faster and easier by far.

Wile E

02-28-2008, 07:41 AM

I would get the d-tek FuZion. I've tried a few in my time and the d-tek is a better WB IMO. The storm was a good block for a single die CPU and I loved it but it doesn't compare to the FuZion.
I wasn't looking at the Storm, I was looking at the EK Supreme. It's been tested to cool better than the Fuzion, but it's about as restrictive as the storm.

http://www.petrastechshop.com/eksuuncpuwa1.html

Review here: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/cases_cooling/ek_supreme_cpu_water_block/4

I'm still torn on which block to get, Fuzion or EK, but I have decided to commit to running my cpu in it's own loop, so I don't think the restriction of the EK block will be an issue.

EastCoasthandle

02-28-2008, 09:37 AM

I wasn't looking at the Storm, I was looking at the EK Supreme. It's been tested to cool better than the Fuzion, but it's about as restrictive as the storm.

http://www.petrastechshop.com/eksuuncpuwa1.html

Review here: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/cases_cooling/ek_supreme_cpu_water_block/4

I'm still torn on which block to get, Fuzion or EK, but I have decided to commit to running my cpu in it's own loop, so I don't think the restriction of the EK block will be an issue.

I see, well the difference in that review certainly doesn't justify the restriction. IMO, 2C and better would be worth it but in most cases it' less then 1C. :ohwell:

DaMulta:
That's not a bad setup. How long have you had it?

Wile E

02-28-2008, 09:41 AM

I see, well the difference in that review certainly doesn't justify the restriction. IMO, 2C and better would be worth it but in most cases it' less then 1C. :ohwell:Yeah, you're probably right. Guess I'll just get the Fuzion. And not only that, I was thinking more about it, and they didn't test it against a jetted Fuzion. So with tweaks, the Fuzion will likely pull ahead again anyway.

DaMulta

02-28-2008, 01:22 PM

I see, well the difference in that review certainly doesn't justify the restriction. IMO, 2C and better would be worth it but in most cases it' less then 1C. :ohwell:

DaMulta:
That's not a bad setup. How long have you had it?

I have had most of it from about September. I bought it when I was running two 180Watt Tecs on X1950XTX cards. It would idle at -2c, so the TECs was kept plenty cool.

intel igent

03-01-2008, 09:50 PM

just when i thought i was done :rolleyes:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2809060&posted=1#post2809060

it just keeps getting better ;)

:toast:

sneekypeet

03-01-2008, 10:04 PM

ok fellas here is my question. I am using some older parts and it seems to be working well enough for my E6400.

I am using an older TDX waterblock with the restricter placed over the fins on the inlet side.

I am also using a Hydor Seltz L30 which even at the 2 foot head to the rad will run 4.6Gal/minute.
will removing the "cats eye" restricter, will temps go up or down?

intel igent

03-01-2008, 10:21 PM

4.6 GPM how did you get this? using Martinm210's flow calc?

flow calculator/estimator:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=151627

the purpose of the nozzles/plates is to create turbulence which in turn increases cooling efficiency, i think your temps would increase by removing it.

sneekypeet

03-01-2008, 10:23 PM

4.6 GPM how did you get this? using Martinm210's flow calc?

http://www.overclockers.com/articles672/

I did the math based on 275GPH @ 2foot head. Its 4.5888888GPM

Also with the original TDX which DD doesnt show anylonger, they had like a 5 piece kit. Different sizes and one to do yourself, but they also said to try without.

intel igent

03-01-2008, 10:32 PM

put your pump in a loop and those #'s will change because you've added restrictions, the #'s you're posting are free flow #'s.

i posted the flow estimator for you incase you were unaware of its existence it is very helpfull

what else is going in the loop?

when got into W/C the 3 barb blox were king :laugh:

i remember most of those early days including somethings about the TDX :p

:toast:

sneekypeet

03-01-2008, 10:33 PM

just what is in the specs....no Graphics just CPU

I dont see a flow estimator...could you repost...also most of the estimators dont use my parts in thier lists!

intel igent

03-01-2008, 10:37 PM

leave the plate in there for reasons i mentioned earlier

do you have any of the other plates?

theres the link to the estimator in post #104

sneekypeet

03-01-2008, 10:38 PM

nope it would be with or without.

intel igent

03-01-2008, 10:40 PM

nope it would be with or without.

with the plate, check my previous posts if you missed something

:toast:

sneekypeet

03-01-2008, 10:46 PM

Version 2.5 doesnt have my pump and I couldnt seem to get rid of the GPU block!

intel igent

03-01-2008, 10:52 PM

thats strange? ive seen your pump listed on there before.......

try and go directy to his site liquidlabs or something he might have a better version posted there

sneekypeet

03-01-2008, 10:58 PM

went to the link in his public profile to his download page and got version 2.5 the newest since February 3rd or close. Does show the L20 but I still couldnt remove the GPU block the blank line in the dropdown is greyed out...lol

Thanks tho....maybe I just need to try it and see, altho I will report either way so you can have an I told ya so....lol

Wile E

03-02-2008, 08:20 AM

Well, I ordered my Fuzion. Got the Pro mount with it, and a nozzle kit. Should be here Friday.

Fitseries3

03-02-2008, 08:23 AM

anyone want to temporarily donate their d-tek fuzion in order for me to make a lexan/acrylic top and mid section for it? im gonna be selling these once i get them made. if your interested... i WILL give you your block back along with your new lexan/acrylic top and mid sections free of charge. PM me if interested.

intel igent

03-02-2008, 08:56 PM

Well, I ordered my Fuzion. Got the Pro mount with it, and a nozzle kit. Should be here Friday.

nice what nozzle are you planning to use?

the quad?

Wile E

03-03-2008, 07:09 AM

nice what nozzle are you planning to use?

the quad?Yeah, I read some reviews that saw some nice results by using the quad nozzle. The only downside is, none of them compare the quad nozzle to other nozzles, so I don't actually know if it's the best choice. I might get around to experimenting with it at some point, but for now, I'll just use the quad.

DOM

03-03-2008, 09:10 PM

Yeah, I read some reviews that saw some nice results by using the quad nozzle. The only downside is, none of them compare the quad nozzle to other nozzles, so I don't actually know if it's the best choice. I might get around to experimenting with it at some point, but for now, I'll just use the quad.this guy (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2611640&postcount=19)did it but only with the 4.5 and Q nozzle

new loop took about a week to do cuz of work but took less time to finish changed the coolant to distilled water + PT_Nuke + UV Reactive Pentosin G11 Coolant Additive (Blue) think i need more cuz its not UV Reactive :( and added a/c filter on the rad and bottom of the case the intake to keep the dust out and off the rad and fans looks better to me

before
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/dom71/Picture001.jpg

after
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/dom71/MYWorldSerriah.jpg

intel igent

03-04-2008, 06:09 PM

nice rig DOM ;) what kind of temps you get with your fuzion mounted in that manner? which mounting are you using for it?

:toast:

EastCoasthandle

03-04-2008, 07:18 PM

Yes, nice setup Dom :toast:

DOM

03-05-2008, 01:56 PM

nice rig DOM ;) what kind of temps you get with your fuzion mounted in that manner? which mounting are you using for it?

:toast:stock, and heres small on prime and with the fur for the gpu idle and load
http://img.techpowerup.org/080305/temps.jpg

Yes, nice setup Dom :toast:
thanks :toast: need some blue uv dye so it glows in the dark

DaMulta

03-05-2008, 02:02 PM

I love your setup!!!

DOM

03-05-2008, 02:07 PM

I love your setup!!!

who me :laugh: :toast:

Grings

03-06-2008, 04:17 PM

I just got a Swiftech Apex Ultra kit (don't shoot me, it was v.cheap) ready for my new chip (still cant decide between q6600 or e8400)
I am gonna get a thermochill rad, and use the swiftech one for a (separate) gpu loop (im getting a new graphics card in a month or 2, once i've seen how the 98xx Nvidia's perform, i don't want to w/c either of my current cards) anyway, i have some questions:

1. Is this (http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=40_101&products_id=223) any good?, i know its pretty weak, but this will be a 1 waterblock loop (preferably low restriction), will it cope, or would i be better off getting a ddc or another d5?

2. (A question for Dom) Did having you're d5 mounted as in you're 'before' picture (with the mount vertical) make any difference? (either noise-wise OR performance-wise?)

3. As this pump i have Swiftech 655-b doesn't have a speed controller, what would be the best way of controlling its speed?, im a bit wary of using something like a rheobus as they seem to have a habit of blowing channels with a regular fan, let alone a (reasonably) powerful pump. I have got a few old crude speed controllers from old cpu heatsinks laying around, would one of these do? (heck, can i even control its speed by voltage regulation?, i know you can with DDC pumps, so i assume you can with this too)

Thanks, Grings

EastCoasthandle

03-07-2008, 12:00 AM

EastCoasthandle

03-07-2008, 12:06 AM

For those that like the Laing DDC 3.2 (MPC 355) the best top for it appears to be the XSPC Acrylic Reservoir DDC Top (http://www.xspc.biz/ddcres.php). You can read a review of several different modded tops here (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/DDC32PumpTopTesting.html)

Grings

03-07-2008, 12:23 AM

If you are only using 1 water block the 655-b should be more then enough for your needs. Unless I misunderstood something, you can let it run at it's rated speeds without having to control it. I find no reason why to buy another pump at this time.

What i meant was, i'll be using the 655-b for the CPU loop, and running a completely seperate loop for the GPU (hence the second pump)

As for the speed control, I just want something to fiddle with:)

DaMulta

03-07-2008, 12:23 AM

Black Ice XtremeIII Radiator
Our price: $64.95 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=4&cat=85&page=1)

Black Ice GTX120 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=255)

DD12V-D5 Pump Fixed Speed
Our price: $76.95 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=274&cat=23&page=1)

Acetal Top MAZE4-1GPU Peltier Version
Our price: $62.96

Acetal Top MAZE4-1GPU Peltier Version
Our price: $62.96 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=134&cat=48&page=1)

Danger Den Dual 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir $31.95 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=53&cat=27&page=1)

Criticool Power Plant
Our price: $28.95 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=42&cat=0&page=1)

Still looking for the Swiftech MCW6500-T-775 Thermoelectric CPU Liquid Cooling Block (Socket 775) Out of Stock (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5532/ex-blc-348/Swiftech_MCW6500-T-775_Thermoelectric_CPU_Liquid_Cooling_Block_Socket _775.html?tl=g30c105s520)

My plan is to do this on one loop for 2 8800GT cards, and the q6600 CPU.

EastCoasthandle

03-07-2008, 01:17 AM

DaMulta

03-07-2008, 01:18 AM

I have a 320 but I'm thing about a 600 to run everything OK.

I hope there is room in there.

Wile E

03-07-2008, 07:11 AM

I have a 320 but I'm thing about a 600 to run everything OK.

I hope there is room in there.
The 600W is 24V, iirc.

[MD]Phantom

03-08-2008, 11:48 AM

Thanks for redirecting me too this post Eastcosthandle.;)

It got me a few steps further too good cooling, but still the question remains.

Will two 120.2 radiators be cooled down enough, the CFM rating off the 25cm i want too use is 105.2.:confused:

If you would put 4 120mm fans on the radiators as would be possible then the totaal CFM flow would be about double that amount.

But you have too take in consideration i do not want a vacuumcleaner connected to my pc.:shadedshu
Neither am i seeking the best performance you can get, i want a good reliable and somewhat quiet systeem too cool my new pc down.

So silence is a big issue here, that's why i have an zalman reserator 1 plus now.

I have learend from this topic that the combination Laing D5 and EKsupreme is good sinds the pump will produce enough pressure too the cpu block.

Now for another part of WC i already read that a reservoir is not really needed, but what solution is better/more reliable a reservoir or a T-piece with a hose to fill.

The gpu block is still a bit of a mistery sinds i am waiting for the new 9... series from nvidia, and also the mainboard is still a question mark sinds i want the X48 chipset and there are not many mainboards with that out there yet.

EastCoasthandle

03-08-2008, 11:52 AM

Phantom;691917']Thanks for redirecting me too this post Eastcosthandle.;)

It got me a few steps further too good cooling, but still the question remains.

Will two 120.2 radiators be cooled down enough, the CFM rating off the 25cm i want too use is 105.2.:confused:

If you would put 4 120mm fans on the radiators as would be possible then the totaal CFM flow would be about double that amount.

But you have too take in consideration i do not want a vacuumcleaner connected to my pc.:shadedshu
Neither am i seeking the best performance you can get, i want a good reliable and somewhat quiet systeem too cool my new pc down.

So silence is a big issue here, that's why i have an zalman reserator 1 plus now.

I have learned from this topic that the combination Laing D5 and EKsupreme is good sinds the pump will produce enough pressure too the cpu block.

Now for another part of WC i already read that a reservoir is not really needed, but what solution is better/more reliable a reservoir or a T-piece with a hose to fill.

The gpu block is still a bit of a mistery sinds i am waiting for the new 9... series from nvidia, and also the mainboard is still a question mark sinds i want the X48 chipset and there are not many mainboards with that out there yet.

If I understood your correctly, if all you want to use is a fan that uses roughly 25CFM then you should invest in Thermochill's PA120.3. All you really need is 3 fans. Personally, I would get the Scythe SFF21E 49 CFM S-FLEX (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scsf49cfms12.html). The Yate Loons are rated at 28dBAs while the Scythe SFF21E are rated around 20 dBAs.

I personally recommend a reservoir do to the bleed times with a T-line and the amount of air pockets in the rad/blocks with a T-line vs res.

The Maximus Formula is a solid board (although it does take getting use to when OC'ing). I haven't found the need for a X48 over a X38 at this time when using DDR2 memory. X48 offers official support with DDR3 1600 without over clocking and the ability to support intel's future CPU that's has a 800 FSB (not sure on the last part).

[MD]Phantom

03-08-2008, 11:58 AM

Apparently i did not write it down good enough,

De diameter off the fan i want too use is 250mm or 25 cm.

The airflow it can produce is 105.2 CFM.

The PA120.3 is too long and the fan will not cover the entire surface off the radiator that would bee a shame, thats why i want too use 2 PA120.2 in a blok or square formation and i will make a frame too hold them in place then i want too attach the 25cm/250mm fan on one side off that.

I will try too make a drawing too clear things up,

[MD]Phantom

03-08-2008, 12:06 PM

http://www.techzine.nl/f/g/34936phpnOUKoP.bmp

Something like this, i hope this cleares up a little.

EastCoasthandle

03-08-2008, 12:14 PM

Phantom;691923']Apparently i did not write it down good enough,

De diameter off the fan i want too use is 250mm or 25 cm.

The airflow it can produce is 105.2 CFM.

The PA120.3 is too long and the fan will not cover the entire surface off the radiator that would bee a shame, thats why i want too use 2 PA120.2 in a blok or square formation and i will make a frame too hold them in place then i want too attach the 25cm/2500mm fan on one side off that.

I will try too make a drawing too clear things up,
There is also MagiCool XTREME Nova 1080 Radiator (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5946/ex-rad-123/MagiCool_XTREME_Nova_1080_Radiator.html?tl=g30c95) .

[MD]Phantom

03-08-2008, 12:20 PM

Well i see i have a lot more research too do sinds there are already radiators that are build the way i want it.

like this one too airplex evo 1080 i

And mounting one 250mm fan on it will probably do the job just fine.

TY for the answers so far, i will be back when i have done more research so i do not ask questions i could have found on my one.;)

EastCoasthandle

03-08-2008, 12:26 PM

Phantom;691930']Well i see i have a lot more research too do sinds there are already radiators that are build the way i want it.

like this one too airplex evo 1080 i

And mounting one 250mm fan on it will probably do the job just fine.

TY for the answers so far, i will be back when i have done more research so i do not ask questions i could have found on my one.;)

No problem, if you have time call them up and ask them what hardware is needed with the airplex evo 1080 i. That appears to be what you are looking for so far. In any case if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

[MD]Phantom

03-08-2008, 01:50 PM

Well i have trown overboard all i had till now,

reasons beeing,

The EK supreme will not perform good in a loop with more than only the cpu block it seems.
And i am going to put more than 1 block on the loop.
The Laing D5 is the same as the Swiftech MCP655-B, so i will check prices for wich one.

The radiator can only be somewhat of two PA120.2 sinds the bigger ones like the airplex evo 1080 i or the MagiCool XTREME Nova 1080 Radiator are apperently FLOW KILLERS.

So that's out of the question.

insted of the EK supreme i will check the D-Tek fuzion or maybee a Nexxox x2.

So almost back to square 1.

EastCoasthandle

03-08-2008, 02:10 PM

Phantom;691956']Well i have trown overboard all i had till now,

reasons beeing,

The EK supreme will not perform good in a loop with more than only the cpu block it seems.
And i am going to put more than 1 block on the loop.
The Laing D5 is the same as the Swiftech MCP655-B, so i will check prices for wich one.

The radiator can only be somewhat of two PA120.2 sinds the bigger ones like the airplex evo 1080 i or the MagiCool XTREME Nova 1080 Radiator are apperently FLOW KILLERS.

So that's out of the question.

insted of the EK supreme i will check the D-Tek fuzion or maybee a Nexxox x2.

So almost back to square 1.

Here is a suggestion:
Fuzion for the CPU
Maze5 for the GPU (with appropriate ram sinks, if needed)
tubing size 7/16" ID, 11/16" OD (unless you prefer a smaller size tube)
PA120.3 rad
d5 pump

SirKeldon

03-08-2008, 06:36 PM

In first term, wanna say thank you to EastCoastHandle for directing me to this post, and also DaMulta cause he saved my life in a previous thread that i started claiming for some help for watercooling, here's my setup:

- CPU Waterblock: Enzotech SCW-1 (super high density, real mirror finish, i think it would be in the same level as Fuzion or DD, check the official page (http://www.enzotechnology.com/sapphire_cpu.htm))
- Radiator: HWLabs BlackIce GT Stealth 120x1 (installed with 2xSilenX iXtrema Pro series in a pull->push setting)
- Reservoir: Thermaltake AquaBay M3
- Pump: Hydor L20 Pro (brings 700 lph)
- Tube: 1/2" (18-12mm) Tubclair
- Coolant: Feser One Cooling Fluid

As i was cooling just my CPU, DaMulta said to me to use this setup: res-out to pump-in, pump-out to cpu-in, cpu-out to rad-in and rad-out to res-in. It's working well and cools appropiated though i saw different setups to mount it in a different way, don't know if that setups will work better than the one i have, most common alternative i've seen is rad-out to cpu-in, cpu-out to res-in, res-out to pump-in and pump-out to rad-in ... but in this way the water passing through the pump will be always hot as well as the reservoir one, and my pump didn't resists water more than 35-45ºC so i think i'll keep as i mounted it, water is always "fresh" at the res and pump so now the question is referring to the rad, what will cool better, the 120x1 with pull->push fan setup i'm owning or a 120x2 just with push fan setup?

Also i read in first post that the reservoir must be higher than the pump, mine's at the same level, maybe a few mm up but it was impossible to mount it in another bay to keep the good access to some parts of the mobo and also to let the airflow work better, i think the flow is working appropiated since it's all well cooled but i'll appreciate much your opinion. I'm adding photos of the rig for you to check:

General view of the tube connection:
http://img.techpowerup.org/080308/GeneralTube.jpg

Pump to reservoir detail:
http://img.techpowerup.org/080308/PumpResTube.jpg

Radiator detail:
http://img.techpowerup.org/080308/RadTube.jpg

Closed with cold cathodes on :D (sorry about the quality of these ones, i turn off the light to better see the cold cathodes)
http://img.techpowerup.org/080308/generalview1.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/080308/GeneralView2.jpg

Hope you like it though it's not finished yet, pump is directly connected with an AC plug and just doesn't fits to pass through PCI bays so i have to install a switch for it, it will be more comfortable for me and finally i'll can pass the cable through the PCI hole and close the other lateral panel without messing anything :)

ps: DOM rig it's amazing and so well modded, i wish i could be less clumsy to do that beauty things, i can't beat it with mine :laugh:

EastCoasthandle

03-08-2008, 07:44 PM

SirKeldon,
That is one awesome water cooled setup you have there. Thanks for sharing.

[MD]Phantom

03-08-2008, 08:02 PM

I was thinking of making two seperate loops.

Are there any radiators out there that are a bit cheaper and still performs well, maybee the Nexxox xtreme rev 2 or two airplexe pro 240 or XT or EVO, or some black ICE type of radiator.

Have too read some test and reviews too find the best value for money radiator.
Have been searching and searching but thermochill is the best of the best that's for sure, and worth the money.

And have too find two pumps that will be sufficient for the job without costing a arm and a leg. I was thinking about two Hydor Seltz L30 i can get those for 27.76 euro each.

Or two eheim 1046-790 for 30,00 euro each fitted with keramiklagerung. the ones with the better berings i understand.

And what about the eheim compact pumps i have seen in a shop they are cheap and can get 1000l/Hour trough the tubing.

The max price is about 40 euro for each pump other wise the amount of money spend will get out of control.

Until now i have spend,
166,45 Euro for the Thermaltake Mozart TX case
44.91 Euro for three 250 mm fans

and as it looks now,
around 160 Euro for two PA120.2's
around 50 Euro for a EK supreme

i still need two pumps and reservoirs, and later on a gpu block
Making it a 2 loop system.
As well as cuplings and hoses,

I have been reading a lot of artikels and it seems that 1/2 inch tubing is the better one, correct me if im wrong.

Sinds the cpu will not likely get as hot as the gpu i will put the motherboard cooling in that loop, and schould still hev enough pressure i hope. Correct me if im wrong.

EastCoasthandle

03-09-2008, 04:13 AM

Phantom;692427']I was thinking of making two seperate loops.

Are there any radiators out there that are a bit cheaper and still performs well, maybee the Nexxox xtreme rev 2 or two airplexe pro 240 or XT or EVO, or some black ICE type of radiator.

Have too read some test and reviews too find the best value for money radiator.
Have been searching and searching but thermochill is the best of the best that's for sure, and worth the money.

And have too find two pumps that will be sufficient for the job without costing a arm and a leg. I was thinking about two Hydor Seltz L30 i can get those for 27.76 euro each.

Or two eheim 1046-790 for 30,00 euro each fitted with keramiklagerung. the ones with the better berings i understand.

And what about the eheim compact pumps i have seen in a shop they are cheap and can get 1000l/Hour trough the tubing.

The max price is about 40 euro for each pump other wise the amount of money spend will get out of control.

Until now i have spend,
166,45 Euro for the Thermaltake Mozart TX case
44.91 Euro for three 250 mm fans

and as it looks now,
around 160 Euro for two PA120.2's
around 50 Euro for a EK supreme

i still need two pumps and reservoirs, and later on a gpu block
Making it a 2 loop system.
As well as cuplings and hoses,

I have been reading a lot of artikels and it seems that 1/2 inch tubing is the better one, correct me if im wrong.

Sinds the cpu will not likely get as hot as the gpu i will put the motherboard cooling in that loop, and schould still hev enough pressure i hope. Correct me if im wrong.

The Swiftech MCR320-QP or Swiftech MCR220-QP should be a good, cheaper alternative. As for pumps the Hydor Seltz L30 should suite you fine.

Wile E

03-09-2008, 05:24 AM

Well, got my Fuzion and Bitspower pump top installed today. With uncured AS5, my temp drops under load are between 7-10C. I'm ecstatic with the results. After curing,I'm willing to bet it will drop another 3 or 4C, like it did with the Apogee GT.

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 03:17 PM

I have made up my mind about a few things,

CPU loop: hydor seltz L30/ Ek supreme/ thermaltake aquabay M3/ Thermochill PA120.2
GPU loop: hydor seltz L30/ to be decided/ thermaltake aquabay M3/ Thermochill PA 120.2
Mainboard loop: hydor seltz L20/ to be decided/ T-split/ ALPHACOOL NEXXXOS XTREME I REV 2/

The swiftech is very hard to find here.:shadedshu

And i have found a site where the PA120.2 is at a good price, and they are the best so i will use them.

If anyone thinks there is a better solution please tell me. TY.

SirKeldon

03-09-2008, 04:07 PM

Phantom;693190']Now to find the radiator, the swiftech is very hard to find here.:shadedshu

I'm a total noob yet but i think you'll be fine just with two Hydor L30 pumps and one reservoir, both pumps will bring about 2400 lph together. Then add two Thermochill PA120.2 you were thinking, or if the money is a problem with that ones take a see to the HWLabs BlackIce GTX 240 here (http://www.hwlabs.com/gen2/gtx/gtx240.htm).

I'll do a single loop but ensuring always fresh water this way: res -> 1st pump -> 1st rad -> cpu -> mobo -> gpu -> 2nd rad -> 2nd pump -> res. If you prefer a double loop: res -> 1st pump -> 1st rad -> cpu -> mobo -> 2nd rad -> 2nd pump -> gpu -> res.

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 04:32 PM

Well the trouble is the EK supreme will only function at top performance if the pressure is high enough.

Putting it in too another loop will bring the pressure down, them you should use a D-Tek fusion.

Is there any need for flow indicator.

intel igent

03-09-2008, 05:07 PM

@ wileE : nice to hear that you got such a noticeable improvement

anyone planning on using ANY of the HYDOR pumps i HIGHLY reccomend using them with FREE FLOWING blocks as those pumps have very low pressure characteristics and you will not have good performance.

you want to use a high pressure pump such as DDC/mcp355 with high restriction blocks or multi block loops.

:toast:

Fitseries3

03-09-2008, 05:18 PM

i'd say use the Laing D5/MCP-655. it's twice the pump that the DDC3.2/MCP355 is.

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 05:20 PM

[QUOTE=

anyone planning on using ANY of the HYDOR pumps i HIGHLY reccomend using them with FREE FLOWING blocks as those pumps have very low pressure characteristics and you will not have good performance.

you want to use a high pressure pump such as DDC/mcp355 with high restriction blocks or multi block loops.

[/QUOTE]

So u say the hydor pumps will not perform well with the EK supreme?.

I do not know if the EK supreme is a high pressure block, and will the better gpu blocks also be high pressure blocks?.

So pressure is not the same as L/H right because a L30 can pump 1200liters/hour and the mcp355 only around 450 Liters/Hour

intel igent

03-09-2008, 05:29 PM

@ fitseries : the D5/mcp655 has only slightly better FLOW and better reliability

@ [MD]Phantom : the EK is a high RESTRICTION block and i reccomend using a pump with higher PRESSURE characteristics to achieve good performance

:toast:

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 05:34 PM

Oke i am looking for such a pump, i have been staring at some graphs here http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10825

But i am not getting it, and not al pumps are listed on this.

Are all high pressure pumps that expensive?.

And how can you see that the pump you are looking at is a high pressure pump?, i have seen a lot of pumps already in a lot of stores and schops.
But how can you tell it's a high pressure pump.?

SirKeldon

03-09-2008, 05:39 PM

you want to use a high pressure pump such as DDC/mcp355 with high restriction blocks or multi block loops.

:toast:

So do you recommend me too a high pressure pump for my Enzotech SCW-1 to perform better?? (the inside circuit is almost the same as D-Tek Fuzion one, so i suppose is a high restriction block too)

As for the radiator since i'm not a huge gamer i won't do a multiloop to the GPU, but i'm not sure what size to use, my case is mid-tower, just 45cm high and if i put a 120x2 rad i can't switch on the cables needed for the Audigy4 ... so i'm just thinking in another 120x1 rad that performs almost like one of 120x2, better than the HWLabs BlackIce GT Stealth 120 i'm currently owning, should i go to the Extreme version or a Thermochill PA120.1 will perform better?

Thanks :D

ps: all this modifications will be done within months but i'll enjoy hearing and taking notes of your recommendations :toast:

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 07:02 PM

The MCP600 is the old version the new one is the MCP655.

If i would use that pump would it be enough pressure too do boot the CPU and GPU block?.

Because getting 2 MCP655's is a little expensive.
And wouldn't it be better then too use the MCP355 or a MCP350 because the MCP655 will put a lot of heat into the water.

I really start getting crazy.

Wile E

03-09-2008, 07:37 PM

[MD]Phantom, I suggest getting the DTek Fuzion instead of the EK block. The EK block barely bested the Fuzion, but the Fuzion it was compared against didn't have any optional nozzles installed. With a nozzle installed, the Fuzion performs better than the EK. Considering you are gonna have more than one block in your loop, I believe it is the way you should go.

For a pump, An MCP355 with a different top would work great with the Dtek Fuzion and GPU in the same loop.

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 08:29 PM

Sinds the high pressure pumps all are very expensive in my eyes.

Wich is better when put in a single loop, with the d-tek fusion with nozzle kit and a GPU-block (still too be found).

This one,
http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=4291&cat=537&page=1

Or this one,
http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=2381&cat=537&page=1

The loop will also contain 2 Thermochill PA120.2's with a single 250mm fan attached.
And 1 thermaltake aquabay M3

Wile E

03-09-2008, 08:32 PM

Either will do quite well. The D5 is said to be a little more reliable. Personally, I run a DDC-1 with a top. It's down to personal choice, at this point.

SirKeldon

03-09-2008, 09:11 PM

I read in many webs that this Enzotech i'm owning got the best of the Swiftech, DD exterior design and D-Tek Fuzion inside ... i'll need a new pump too, and as i'm reading all of you it seems a Swiftech MCP355 or any DDC-1 will fit but since i'll be condemned, i think, to use just a 120x1 radiator (still deciding if i'll get Thermochill or HWLabs BlackIce Xtreme), what will be the best option? One bringing more flow as the MCP655 or the MCP355 will offer the same performance? (the rad is outside and must be outside so i think i'll need more flow with the appropiated pressure these pumps will give me but correct me if i'm wrong)

Also i'm noticing my pump with the hours gets hot, and so the water that flows inside it and goes directly to the CPU. Actually the circuit is res -> pump -> cpu -> rad -> res. If i change the circuit to: res->pump->radiator->cpu->res i'll notice better performance or since the rad is outside it will be the same?

Wile E

03-09-2008, 09:30 PM

With a single block loop, you won't see much difference changing loop order. Maybe a degree or 2. For a single 120mm rad, get the PA120 from Thermochill. Since you're running only one block, my recomendation for you are the same as Phantom. A DDC-1 with a top, or a D5 will both be more than enough.

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 09:33 PM

@sirkeldon, i have seen a lot of shops al ready and a PA120.1 will cost almost as much as a PA120.2 with a difference of only 7 euro at times, and i have seen that the PA120.2 is performing considerably better. Maybee that would be a better choice?.

Oke let's asses it then, as it is now

1 pump i preffer the Laing DDC1+ 12v (i think)
2 Thermochill PA120.2 (most expensive parts that's for sure)
1 thermaltake aquabay M3
1 D-Tek fuzion with nozzle kit
1 Gpu block (still too be found)
1 RADI120AL Magicool Radiator 120 aluminium
1 Hydor Seltz L20 Universal pump

Well this is it i think then, fluid and other minor things not included.

it will cost around 300-350 euro's.
A lot off money,

And still i wonder if i use the Laing D5 won't that pump be strong enough too incorporate the EK supreme?. Reason it's a bit cheaper. The D-Tek wil cost me about 70 Euro and the EK supreme around 45 Euro, a difference of 25 Euro.

The difference between the DDC1+ at 75.43 Euro and the Laing D5 at 80.02 Euro is only 5 Euro, so 20 Euro less spend.

I have saved money for a good watercooled system but i am not prepared to throw it out the window easily.:cry:

Wile E

03-09-2008, 09:36 PM

Are you gonna run 2 loops, or just one? If you put the cpu in it's own loop, those pumps will work fine with the EK block.

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 09:41 PM

@Wile E,

For a pump, An MCP355 with a different top would work great with the Dtek Fuzion and GPU in the same loop.

This was what you said a few posts earlier, so i was creating the WC for a single loop.

I was planning to use the Hydro L20 for the mainboard cooling.;)

Wile E

03-09-2008, 09:55 PM

Phantom;693734']@Wile E,

For a pump, An MCP355 with a different top would work great with the Dtek Fuzion and GPU in the same loop.

This was what you said a few posts earlier, so i was creating the WC for a single loop.

I was planning to use the Hydro L20 for the mainboard cooling.;)If you go with the Dtek, then yeah, it will be fine to put the cpu and gpu in the loop.

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 10:03 PM

I am posting on another part in this forum about this, and there it was said that if you made one loop, the component that will be later in the loop will not be cooled down enough, sort off.

PS: i don't want too upset people by questioning they'r answers, because i am very greatfull for any answer i get. Being a bit of a Noob at this.:o

Wile E

03-09-2008, 10:06 PM

Cooling won't be as good, because you are adding more heat to the loop. But it will still be better than air. It's better to do 2 loops from a cooling standpoint, but it's often much easier to run one loop from a assembly standpoint. 2 loops = better cooling. 1 loop = more convenience.

Fitseries3

03-09-2008, 10:08 PM

Phantom;693775']I am posting on another part in this forum about this, and there it was said that if you made one loop, the component that will be later in the loop will not be cooled down enough, sort off.

PS: i don't want too upset people by questioning they'r answers, because i am very greatfull for any answer i get. Being a bit of a Noob at this.:o

no.. it's cool. everyone has different thoughts about stuff.

i have run single and dual loop setups and the dual loop cools better.

EastCoasthandle

03-09-2008, 10:26 PM

I've read a few posts that the L20 may rattle if not kept cool. If you buy the L20, make sure you keep it in a well ventilated area.

EastCoasthandle

03-09-2008, 10:32 PM

Phantom;693720']@sirkeldon, i have seen a lot of shops al ready and a PA120.1 will cost almost as much as a PA120.2 with a difference of only 7 euro at times, and i have seen that the PA120.2 is performing considerably better. Maybee that would be a better choice?.

Oke let's asses it then, as it is now

1 pump i preffer the Laing DDC1+ 12v (i think)
2 Thermochill PA120.2 (most expensive parts that's for sure)
1 thermaltake aquabay M3
1 D-Tek fuzion with nozzle kit
1 Gpu block (still too be found)
1 RADI120AL Magicool Radiator 120 aluminium
1 Hydor Seltz L20 Universal pump

Well this is it i think then, fluid and other minor things not included.

it will cost around 300-350 euro's.
A lot off money,

And still i wonder if i use the Laing D5 won't that pump be strong enough too incorporate the EK supreme?. Reason it's a bit cheaper. The D-Tek wil cost me about 70 Euro and the EK supreme around 45 Euro, a difference of 25 Euro.

The difference between the DDC1+ at 75.43 Euro and the Laing D5 at 80.02 Euro is only 5 Euro, so 20 Euro less spend.

I have saved money for a good watercooled system but i am not prepared to throw it out the window easily.:cry:

The list is not bad at all :toast:. For cooling may I suggest distilled water (if available in your area). I wouldn't use de-ionized water as it can corrode the metal in your blocks/rad to get its ions back. A few drops of either PT Nuke or 91%+ rubbing alcohol should do the trick.

The D5 pump should accommodate the cooling advantage found in a EK Surpreme in a single loop. However, I am not sure if those advantages are had if you install more blocks to that loop. Also note, that the advantages found are roughly 1C or less to a FuZion from what I've seen.

Edited for correction

[MD]Phantom

03-09-2008, 10:44 PM

One thing is for sure im a bit overwhelmed with al this infomation, but still thank you all for it.

Maybee i started out the wrong way,

This is what i want,

A watercooling solution that performs well and is still not too noisy and don't cost an arm and a leg (probably the perfect system as i read it now:laugh:].

It has too cool down my new pc made of fast hardware, because i am a gamer.

The mainboard will probably be based on the X48 chipset, the CPU will be around the E8400 and i am intended too overclock it.

The GPU will be around the 8800GT and also will be overclocked.

Sinds there is not much information about the new intel processors and Nvidia graphics cards i cannot be more precies about it, but i am waiting for those two to be sold.

Another thing springs in too mind, the cost off this as i have it now will be around 300-350 euro, you can buy like a RESERATOR XT for the same price. But will it perform as good as a custom made WC?.

@fitseries3 was there a lot off difference between one and two loops?, in degrees if possible.

@Eastcoasthandle what other cheap but still good pump would you have in mind too keep the mainboard cool, if not the L20. Keeping in mind that maybee the RAM will also bee watercooled by it.

@Wile E i have a bit of a technical/mechanical background so inconviniance will be at a minimum. and as i understand your'e post if i want good cooling make two loops.

But will the performance outwheight the extra cost?.

Fitseries3

03-09-2008, 10:52 PM

q6600 @ 3.6ghz and 8800gtx....

1 loop
q6600 33c idle.....46c load
8800gtx 39c idle....53c load

2 loop
q6600 26c idle.....35c load
8800gtx 36c idle....44c load

single loop was...
1x laing d5
PA120.3
DD GTX block
d-tek fuzion

dual loop was...
loop 1..
laing d5
d-tek fuzion
PA120.2

loop 2..
DD GTX block
laing d5
PA120.3

i had 2 gtxs on the GPU loop as well and temps were only about 1-3c higher.

pics in my sig.

SirKeldon

03-09-2008, 11:09 PM

Phantom;693720']@sirkeldon, i have seen a lot of shops al ready and a PA120.1 will cost almost as much as a PA120.2 with a difference of only 7 euro at times, and i have seen that the PA120.2 is performing considerably better. Maybee that would be a better choice?.

Money is not the problem at all, space is, to use it i'll have to buy an adaptor to place it at the 120mm fan bay that's located onto the rear of the case, this is not the main problem cause i'll be able to do it ... but since my case is a mid-tower one (45cm high) i think it won't allow me to connect the graphics cards connector as well as the Audigy4 Pro ones if the 120x2 rad is there so i said i thought i'll be condemned to use just 120x1 rad, and as i can see, Thermochill is the best option so i'll get one, i will measure well before buying one of them.

As EastCoastHandle says, my L20 produces a lot of heat and starts rattle sometimes, the heat produced are not just that 14W they say on the specs cause the transformer from 220 to 12V sure it's located inside and produces extra heat, so if you're planning to get it, i'll place it outta the case. Since i have this problem i want to know if a D5 will produce the same heat as this Hydor L20 cause if the answer is yes or maybe more, i'll get just a MCP355 with a modified top. I think neither of them won't produce that heat cause both pumps are built to work on 12V and not 220V but your answer will be very appreciated. Thanks in advance :)

EastCoasthandle

03-09-2008, 11:21 PM

[MD]Phantom,
The L20 is the cheapest that I know of at this time (according to what you quoted in a previous post regarding pricing in your area). However, you may look into
Danger Den DD-CPX1 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=279&cat=4&bestseller=Y#tabs)
Danger Den DDC-12V 18 Watt Version 3.2 (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=281&cat=4&page=1#tabs)

But read this thread about the MCP350/355 failure rate problem (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2336826&highlight=355+failure+rate#post2336826). The update to that post is found here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=153138)

These are 2 that I can think of right now. I am not sure of their reliability as the DD-CPX1 if fairly new and the other, well read the link above.

If you decide on a waterblock that only cools the GPU (it only covers the gpu). May I also suggest a ram/pwm sink for your video card? Examples:
Iandh: Silver (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/cui88mevrmco.html) and Black (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/cu88mecokitb.html)
The guy who invented them posted a thread about it here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165270)
Thermalright 8800GT PWM Heatsinks (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/th88pw.html)

Post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2271421&postcount=115)
Originally Posted by gabe View Post
Ok guys, let's talk about reliability.

In preamble, let me apologize in advance as I am not at liberty to release thorough statistical data because I have to respect the factory directives on the subject matter. So please read between the lines on some of the basic facts below:

90% of the pumps that we receive in RMA are not defective (we test every single one of them).

There is little if no difference in reliability between D5 (MCP655) and DDC1 (MCP350), and the number of actual failures is incredibly low (far better than any other pump manufacturer IMO). Stupid mistakes like inverting the wires in the D5 Molex connectors is arguably not counted as a failure.

Yes, one can normally expect somewhat less reliability from a pump that spins faster and heats up more (DDC2/MCP355).

EastCoasthandle

03-09-2008, 11:29 PM

Money is not the problem at all, space is, to use it i'll have to buy an adaptor to place it at the 120mm fan bay that's located onto the rear of the case, this is not the main problem cause i'll be able to do it ... but since my case is a mid-tower one (45cm high) i think it won't allow me to connect the graphics cards connector as well as the Audigy4 Pro ones if the 120x2 rad is there so i said i thought i'll be condemned to use just 120x1 rad, and as i can see, Thermochill is the best option so i'll get one, i will measure well before buying one of them.

As EastCoastHandle says, my L20 produces a lot of heat and starts rattle sometimes, the heat produced are not just that 14W they say on the specs cause the transformer from 220 to 12V sure it's located inside and produces extra heat, so if you're planning to get it, i'll place it outta the case. Since i have this problem i want to know if a D5 will produce the same heat as this Hydor L20 cause if the answer is yes or maybe more, i'll get just a MCP355 with a modified top. I think neither of them won't produce that heat cause both pumps are built to work on 12V and not 220V but your answer will be very appreciated. Thanks in advance :)

The D5 can get hot after prolong use but I don't believe it will get as hot as the L20. I still suggest some sort of active cooling for either pump.

Fitseries3

03-09-2008, 11:32 PM

just put the d5 by a fan. it doesn't get that hot. maybe 1 degree difference over a different pump.

[MD]Phantom

03-10-2008, 04:47 PM

Maybee i should make my life easier by taking a waterblock that does not need high pressure to opperate at top performance.

Than i could use two L30's in a double loop,

As i have seen at the temps off fitseries3 it will be around 10 degrees difference that's a lot.

I know that a block wich is not as good as the Fuzion or supreme will cool less, but it won't be 10 degrees i think.

And i was thinking if i would make the loop like this RESERVOIR-PUMP-RADIATOR-CPU-RADIATOR-GPU-RESERVOIR.

Woudn't the second radiator cool down the water down enough?.

And then the search begins again, for a CPU block that does not need high pressure too operate good.

I was thinking of the L30 pumps 1300Liter/Hour is a lot of water that should be enough, shoudn't it?.

My zalman reserator that i have now does only 300Liter/Hour

And is 1 loop, and still keeps my Intel P4 prescott 3.4GHZ at around 40-45 degrees idle and the graphics card at 40-45 degrees too. When fully loaded they both get around 55-65 degrees.

@eastcosthandle, i always use distilled water it's easy too come buy and very cheap. And i also add some anti-corrosion stuff in it as well.

@eastcosthandle, i was indeed thinking off a GPU block that cools down the ram sinks as well.

SirKeldon

03-10-2008, 05:49 PM

Phantom;694762']I was thinking of the L30 pumps 1300Liter/Hour is a lot of water that should be enough, shoudn't it?.

They'll bring you just 1200 liter per hour, at the same level as the laing D5 ... but i don't know if that Hydor L30 will produce the same heat as my Hydor L20, as they said to you, keep the Hydor's ventilated or outside the case. The Hydor's have one advantage, they're meant to be on an aquarium so they can be submerged, you can do it to a place with always fresh water (as a portable beach fridge), suring the cooling of the pump and avoiding you from possible rattles if becomes hot, if i had the needed stuff, i'll do it.

[MD]Phantom

03-10-2008, 05:54 PM

Here is a nice review on the L30 and this guy says that it would bee even strong enough for a high pressure block, go figure what's right and wrong.:confused:

http://www.gruntville.com/reviews/wc/hydor_l30/index.php

And here another one,

http://www.overclockers.com/articles723/

SirKeldon

03-10-2008, 06:06 PM

Yeah, it's a good pump, i have no doubt, my Hydor L20 is just 18EUR and is performing the job really well, just that "heat" issues. I read also good reviews about the Hydor L30, you'll getting a high-end pump but without the reliability of Laing, Swiftech or DD, it's on the same level of wattage and performance, and the price is really cool for that specs. I'd take note if the Hydor L30 (as her small sister) has also the 220->12V transformer inside, which will produce extra-heat to the water, or if you have place that will avoid them from heat, go ahead and think on better pumps for the future.

intel igent

03-10-2008, 06:08 PM

1)dont use a single 120 rad for anything OTHER than mosfets/nb/sb. even thats pushing it with the newer chips.

2)the money you will spend on a thermochill 120.1 will get you a VERY nice swiftech 120.2 maybe a 120.3.

swiftech make the best price/performance rads.

3)LPH are only half the equation, that is only flow. you want a pump with good HEAD. 5ft - 6ft + is good, that is your pressure. that will tell you how well a pump will work with restrictions in the loop.

4)D4/D5 mcp650/mcp655 and all variants DO NOT require active cooling. i have had my loop running for months at a time without negative effect. the DDC series and mcp350/355 series however is reccomended to provide them with VENTILATION especially on the motor side. the use of petras gel is NOT reccomended as the pumps can generate enough heat to melt the gel thereby causing a short in the pump.

5)if using any AC pump (such as HYDOR/eheim) it is reccomended that you also purchase a starter relay so that the pump will function with the PC on/off cycles

SirKeldon

03-10-2008, 06:22 PM

1)dont use a single 120 rad for anything OTHER than mosfets/nb/sb. even thats pushing it with the newer chips.

2)the money you will spend on a thermochill 120.1 will get you a VERY nice swiftech 120.2 maybe a 120.3.

swiftech make the best price/performance rads.

Interesting, i'm just cooling my CPU ... that makes me think i'd make place for a 120x2 rad anywhere i can, i'll try my best cause i think a 120x2 rad will ruin my backwards PCI connections, at least, Audigy4 Pro ones and i need them to play guitar on the PC so i'll investigate. Actually this BlackIce GTS120 is performing as i expected, but if you say 120.2 ... 120.2 will be better :toast: sure to go to Swiftech and not to HWLabs? their prices are also good and the level of performance is also in the level.

EastCoasthandle

03-10-2008, 07:38 PM

1)
4)D4/D5 mcp650/mcp655 and all variants DO NOT require active cooling. i have had my loop running for months at a time without negative effect. the DDC series and mcp350/355 series however is reccomended to provide them with VENTILATION especially on the motor side. the use of petras gel is NOT reccomended as the pumps can generate enough heat to melt the gel thereby causing a short in the pump.

I am going to respectfully disagree with you here. I've had my pump for well over a year and know point blank that if there was no active cooling it WILL get hot after extended period of time. Even Gabe (Yes, one can normally expect somewhat less reliability from a pump that spins faster and heats up more (DDC2/MCP355).) (the guy from Swiftech) even suggest that pump fail can happen do to heat. Therefore, it's implied to actively cool the pump.
Yes, one can normally expect somewhat less reliability from a pump that spins faster and heats up more (DDC2/MCP355).
Post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2271421&postcount=115)

Not sure what kind of gel Petras sells :confused:

[MD]Phantom

03-10-2008, 08:51 PM

Oke i am trying too understand this,

If you have a high restriction block, you need a high pressure pump.

The pressure is like this, 3,8 mHead for a DDC 1T.

But it has got nothing too do with the flow rate, like 400Liter/Hour

But how do you tell wich is a high restriction block and wich is not?.

And is a Laing DDC-1T a high pressure pump?.

EastCoasthandle

03-11-2008, 03:38 AM

Phantom;695112']Oke i am trying too understand this,

If you have a high restriction block, you need a high pressure pump.

The pressure is like this, 3,8 mHead for a DDC 1T.

But it has got nothing too do with the flow rate, like 400Liter/Hour

But how do you tell wich is a high restriction block and wich is not?.

And is a Laing DDC-1T a high pressure pump?.

In most cases a decent review will tell which WB has the most pressure.

A Laing DDC-1T pump provides roughly 12.14ft of head. While a D5 provides 11ft of head. If memory serves me you need more at least 9ft of max head in order to deal with most blocks. But it's been awhile since I last researched that. That may have changed since I last researched that though :o (take with a grain of salt for now). I recall that a D5 (although it offers slightly lower max head then 350/355 with modded tops) does the job good enough for most water blocks.

intel igent

03-11-2008, 11:56 AM

@ eastcoast : your link/s proves what? the heat generated by running a D4/D5 for ANY extended period of time DOES NOT require active cooling. please do not start myths and make false claims.

:toast:

EastCoasthandle

03-11-2008, 06:31 PM

@ eastcoast : your link/s proves what? the heat generated by running a D4/D5 for ANY extended period of time DOES NOT require active cooling. please do not start myths and make false claims.

:toast:

No, I am not starting myths nor made any false claim. The link is self explanatory. And, because I had the pump for some time I can offer my personal experience with it. Besides, offering a bit of caution can go a long way when you water cool :toast:

However, lets look at the PDF of a D5 (for example):
The pump has an integrated over-temperature safety device that
shuts the pumps electronics off when reaching the temperature
limit of +203° F, as a complete shutdown of the pump may result
in adverse effects on a circulating system. Prior to this, the
electronics will reduce the pump speed in order to compensate
for heat gain. However, if the temperature continues to rise
(i.e. the fluid media is too hot), the pump will eventually turn off
completely. After cooling, the pump will restart automatically.
PDF (http://www.lainginc.com/pdf/LTI%20D5%20basic,%20vario%20and%20strong%20-%206pages.pdf)

Lets look at a DDC-3.2 (for example):
A DDC-3.2 has a Max. system temperature 140° F. PDF (http://www.lainginc.com/pdf/DDC3_LTI_USletter_BR-23.pdf)

Basically, regardless of how the pump heats up, if you want it to operate at it's full potential it's best to keep it cool.

Wile E

03-11-2008, 10:18 PM

No, I am not starting myths nor made any false claim. The link is self explanatory. And, because I had the pump for some time I can offer my personal experience with it. Besides, offering a bit of caution can go a long way when you water cool :toast:

However, lets look at the PDF of a D5 (for example):

PDF (http://www.lainginc.com/pdf/LTI%20D5%20basic,%20vario%20and%20strong%20-%206pages.pdf)

Lets look at a DDC-3.2 (for example):
A DDC-3.2 has a Max. system temperature 140° F. PDF (http://www.lainginc.com/pdf/DDC3_LTI_USletter_BR-23.pdf)

Basically, regardless of how the pump heats up, if you want it to operate at it's full potential it's best to keep it cool.My DDC-1's never shutdown, even under the abuse of cooling a TEC, and I think I know why. My rad is always after my blocks. The rad is the last thing in the loop before the res. So my pumps are always getting water that's already cooled.

Even after being on for the last 48hrs straight, my DDC-1 isn't even warm to the touch.

I should note that there is no airflow on the pump at all. My setup isn't in a case, it's running on top of a table. lol.

DOM

03-11-2008, 10:33 PM

ive been folding for like 3days and my pump isnt hot or warm and its after the blocks, with 1.552 volts :D room at 78F

sneekypeet

03-11-2008, 11:49 PM

DOM

03-12-2008, 12:46 AM

yeah more then likely your going to the hardware store

and the screw are 6-32 the thread I think you need and some nylon spacers

I used the nuts that come with the screws to hold down the fans cuz they where lil to long but I think they make 3" that whould be what your looking for cuz you wanted at least 2" of clearance

EastCoasthandle

03-12-2008, 01:27 AM

Ok fellas a question again.

I have a 2X120 Danger Den Black Ice radiator, and I am purchasing 4 of these (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6174/fan-344/Yate_Loon_120mm_x_25mm_Fan_D12SH-12.html?tl=g36c15s60) for a possible push/pull setup.
Im going to experiment with the fan setup a bit!

I want to put my rad on top with 4 "risers" to get the fans off the top of the case, and really dont like the looks of the radbox.

Is there a kit to get "legs" to support the rad a couple of inches above the case?
Im assuming it is going to be a creative trip to the Hardware store!:D

I would take the rad with you to the hardware store. That way you can get an idea of how long a screw you need :p
I've seen people use long standoffs (just like the ones for your motherboard tray). You can check with you local hardware store to see if they sell it and it threads properly onto the rad.

sneekypeet

03-12-2008, 01:48 AM

Off to the hardware store I go then. I have some ideas already , just didnt know if there was a pre-packaged solution. Thanks fellas

intel igent

03-12-2008, 08:41 AM

EastCoasthandle

03-12-2008, 09:24 AM

eastcoast do you actually think we would see those kind of temps in W/C? not likely, unless of failure i could NEVER see temps getting that high

ive had my rig up and running for over 6mths straight and my idle temp would only be ~3c higher than the first day i fired it up.

dont take advantage of the n00bs

:toast:

I have been water cooling for a few years now (since owning a P4). Based on your posts I have never had idle temps go up 3C just on it's own like that (keeping in mind ambient temps). I believe you are doing a disservice when you advise anyone against some level of caution when water cooling. Regardless of how this makes you feel I stand by my decision on the use of caution (IE actively cooling the pump). Therefore, there is no need to continue arguing about this we simple agree to disagree.

DanishDevil

03-12-2008, 09:55 AM

EastCoasthandle

03-12-2008, 10:13 AM

Hey guys. I'm thinking of taking the watercooling plunge, but I want to start off slow. I want just a CPU setup right now, and I'll be adding a full coverage 3870 block in the future, and maybe a NB block too. I want to see what I can get out of my 5000+BE(s), because the cooler I've got now has them in the mid 50's at 1.5V. What would your recommendations be? I want to try to spend somewhere under $200 on the CPU setup for now.

Restrictions:

Dual 120mm Radiator (I'll attach it on the interior of my case, and cut for a second one later)
Socket AM2
I want it quiet - I should be able to sleep with it under my bed
I like the look of bare copper, so a plexi topped block would be sweet!

Thanks in advance guys.

Here is one person's experience with a plexi top:
Post (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=690100&highlight=Plexi+tops#post690100)

Suggestion:
-Swiftech MCR220-QP (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcqupo2x.html)
-FuZion (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fuexpecpubl.html)
-7/16" ID Tubing (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty7id11odlat.html)
-MCP655 Pump (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpu.html)
-2, 120mm fans. You can pick which fans you want here as there are few to choose from.
You could go with 120mm Scythe SFF21E S-FLEX™ Case Fan (49 CFM/20.1 dBA) (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scsf49cfms12.html)
OR
Yate Loon D12SL-12 Case Fan - Black (47 CFM, 28 dBA) (http://www.petrastechshop.com/12yalod1cafa.html) which are cheaper

What I haven't included so far is the use of either a reservoir or T-line as I am not sure which way you want to go. You are going to have to decide on that one.

DanishDevil

03-12-2008, 10:49 AM

EastCoasthandle

03-12-2008, 11:01 AM

I'm going to use a reservoir, as I've read that bleeding a t-line is a b*tch. I'll probably grab the Swiftech micro res for now.

I'll be powering my radiators with ACRyan fans rated at 77CFM at 29dBA turned down to my liking.

I've read really good things about the ThermoChill PA 120.2 (and .3) Radiators. How do they compare to the Swiftech QP's?

And is that tubing specifically chosen, or will any 7/16ID tubing work? I might try to pick up some of the smaller stuff locally so I don't get gouged with shipping costs. And is Sidewinder based in California? I hate having to pay tax online...

ThermoChill PA120.2 cool better then the Swiftech. I offered the Swiftech as it's cheaper but should perform a little better then HW when low powered fans are used, restriction, etc. Take a look at this post for comparison (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77260).

I only provided that ID/OD tubing size as an option. You can go with what you like. However, that tubing size does offer the best bend radius when using 1/2" barbs (when I looked it up). Also, someone did a review of tubing sizes and came to the same conclusion found here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2405432&postcount=1).
:toast:

Wile E

03-12-2008, 11:13 AM

Man, I gotta get me some PA120.3 rads. lol.

[MD]Phantom

03-12-2008, 06:01 PM

I still wasn't sure about the head needed for a EK supreme.

So i sen't them an e-mail too ask, this is they'r answer.

Hi!

I suggest about 1,7 m is enough.

Best regards, Eddy

So that's a lot less than i tought around 5.58 feet if my calculations are right.

Considering that there will also be a radiator and reservoir be in the loop, the pump should produce a bit more.

But i think a WCZ Laing DDC-1T Pump would be enough. 1 for each loop.

I could also overvolt them to a plus.

Technische Daten

- Spannung: 12 Volt
- Nennleistung: 10 Watt
- Förderleistung: ca. 400 Liter/h
- Druckleistung: 3,8 mHead
- Länge o. Anschl.: ca. 62 mm
- Breite: ca. 62 mm
- Höhe: ca. 38 mm
- Strom-Kabellänge: ca. 500 mm
- Gewicht: ca. 220 Gramm

Cost 48.69 Euro each.

So i made up my mind two of these should be enough, i think.

Maybee i'll make a different top for them like explaind on this and other forums, then it will be oke.

intel igent

03-12-2008, 06:43 PM

@ MD : those pumps will be fine with or without aftermarket tops in your proposed loop

@ eastcoast : yes my loop after running steady for months will raise its idle by ~3c. try yourself on your loop you will see what i mean, similar to "idling" a car. within regards to your comments on pump heat/cooling all i can say is :shadedshu some active cooling COULD be beneficial for persons using DDC style pumps in confined spaces, but NOT ALL pumps require active cooling.

anyone new to aftermarket cooling (whatever it may be air/water/exotic) have a look here as well for further info

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10

:toast:

[MD]Phantom

03-12-2008, 07:56 PM

Finally, i then have al the info i need.

Solution,

1 Loop EK Supreme, Thermochill PA120.2, Thermaltake Aquabay M3, Laing DDC-1T.

2 Loop ( Gpu block ) Thermochill PA120.2, Thermaltake Aquabay M3, Laing DDC-1T.

Thank you al for the info, im very gratefull.

When i have the setup completed, ill post my information about the WC.

:roll::roll::roll:

Grings

03-12-2008, 08:04 PM

Are you sure about the aquabays?, they look like they have captive thin hose connectors (based on this (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/M3) review on them), have you looked for others with regular G1/4 threads (i assume by you using Thermochills that you'll be running either 7/16 or 1/2 hose)

[MD]Phantom

03-12-2008, 08:21 PM

I see you are right, damn.

Oh well ill start googling again.

Thanks.;)

intel igent

03-12-2008, 08:29 PM

Phantom;698283']I see you are right, damn.

Oh well ill start googling again.

Thanks.;)

swiftech mc-res ;)

:toast:

EastCoasthandle

03-12-2008, 08:41 PM

Phantom;698283']I see you are right, damn.

Oh well ill start googling again.

Thanks.;)

Laing DDC w/ Petra'sTech DDCT-01s Top Combo
Max. Head Pressure: 18.91 ft (5.76m)
Max. Discharge: 246.6 GPH (933.5 LPH)

Laing DDC-3.2 (18W)/Swiftech MCP355
Maximum Head: 15 ft (4.5 m)
Maximum flow: ~ 120 GPH (454 LPH)

Swiftech MCP355 w/Custom Delrin DDC Pump Top
Maximum Head: 12.92 ft (3.94m)
Maximum flow: ~ 251.4 GPH - (951.65 LPH)

AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12 Inline 12V DC Pump
Maximum Head: 11.81 ft. (3.6 m)
Maximum flow: ~ 185 GPH (700 LPH)

Laing D5 Vario/Swiftech MCP655
Maximum Head: 11.48 ft. (3.35 m)
Maximum flow: ~ 317 GPH (1200 LPH)

Eheim HPPS i - 12v DC
Maximum Head: 10.17 ft (3.1m)
Maximum flow: ~ XXX GPH

Hydor SELTZ L 45 II Water Pump
Maximum Head: 8.9 ft (2.7m)
Maximum flow: ~ 950 GPH

Danger Den MAG II - LE
Maximum head: 8.2 ft (2.5m)
Maximum flow: 567 l/hr (150 GPH)

Danger Den CSP-MAG 12V DC Pump
Maximum head: 7.545 ft 2.3 M
Maximum flow: 9 l/min (143 GPH)

Hydor SELTZ L 35 II Water Pump
Maximum Head: 6.6 ft (80 inches)
Maximum flow: ~ 450 GPH

Thermaltake P500 12V Pump (CL-W0132)
Maximum Head: 5.9 ft (1.8m)
Maximum flow: ~ 500L/h

This is all I could find on some of the pumps used so far. I am not sure what is available in your area.

DaMulta

03-12-2008, 09:33 PM

F water I'm buying a phase LOL.

intel igent

03-12-2008, 11:27 PM

F water I'm buying a phase LOL.

traitor!

j/k :) that would be sweet if you got hooked up with a phase ;)

DanishDevil

03-12-2008, 11:52 PM

Got a few more questions:

Any reason to not get this pump over the regular MCP655? Is this one not adjustable?
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpuw.html
How exactly are pump relays set up and what's the purpose of them?
With the DTek Fuzion, should I get the nozzles? (I assume yes).
With the Swiftech Radiator, should I get the Swiftech or DTek High Flow 1/2"ID Barbs?

DOM

03-13-2008, 12:02 AM

Any reason to not get this pump over the regular MCP655? Is this one not adjustable?

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpuw.html

And, how exactly are pump relays set up and what's the purpose of them?

And with the DTek Fuzion, should I get the nozzles? (I assume yes).

well at xtremesystems theres a test that the MCP655-B set at 4 but shows to be lower to the MCP655 with the nob that goes 1-5 its only $10 more for the Swiftech MCP655 (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpu.html)

pump relays idk I dont use one just the 4pin to the psu

on the nozzles yes for the washer that it comes with and it depends how many blocks your going to have in the loop to which one to use

DanishDevil

03-13-2008, 12:05 AM

Well there's an option on Sidewinder Computers to add a nozzle kit to the Fuzion for like $7.

And I posted a few more questions ^^

DOM

03-13-2008, 12:15 AM

the DTek

DaMulta

03-13-2008, 12:46 AM

Do nozzle kits really work?

DOM

03-13-2008, 12:52 AM

yes

DanishDevil

03-13-2008, 01:15 AM

One more question...maybe more later who knows :P

How much liquid will I need for my system? I want to give the Feser One UV Black coolant a try with my color scheme. They come in 1L bottles. I'm just gonna have the Fuzion, Swiftech Dual QP, MicroRes, and tubing. I'll buy more if need be for when I get a GPU/NB block.

PS: Here's my order. Hopefully I can grab it soon :D

(10) Tygon R3603 7/16in. ID 11/16in. OD Laboratory Tubing # AAC00034
$26.00

Feser One F1 Cooling Fluid - UV BLACK - 1 Liter
$18.95

Dtek FuZion Extreme Performance CPU Block
* Choose your fittings : x2 High Flow Dtek 1/2 ID fittings (Default)
* Add Dtek Nozzle Kit : Yes(+6.99)
$69.94

Swiftech MCP655 12v DC Pump
$79.95

Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Reservoir -
Retail w/Revised Mounting Kit
$17.95

(10) Herbie Clip® Nylon Hose
Clamp Size G - Blue
$2.50

Swiftech MCR220-QP Quiet Power 2X120mm - Black
* Choose your fittings : x2 DTek High Flow 1/4 BSPP to 1/2. ID Barb (+4.00)
$46.95

Total shipped: $277.28

DOM

03-13-2008, 01:20 AM

10 Tygon R3603
7/16in. ID
11/16in. OD

everything is 1/2 :confused:

yeah one 1L should work

DanishDevil

03-13-2008, 01:32 AM

I'm going with 7/16ID tubing, per Eastcoasthandle's recommendations, and reviews.

7/16" ID, 11/16" OD. Offers the best water flow, best bending radius and smaller foot print then other tube sizes. This is 1" smaller then 1/2" ID 5/8" OD tubing. This allows for the greatest bend radius and reduces the hindrance of airflow in the case. You can go smaller if you like. Just make sure you buy the barbs that the same size of the ID (Inner Diameter) of the tubing. Tubing 7/6" ID will fit 1/2" barbing because Tygon tubing is a bit more gummy then other tubing. As a rule of thumb always get more then you need. I usually get 10' to be safe but that's for my PC, yours may vary.

[MD]Phantom

03-13-2008, 04:50 PM

swiftech mc-res ;)

:toast:

I have looked at the swiftech reservoir but they have a little temperature issues in bigger watercooling installations as it seems.

So i have decided too go with two XSPC 5.25 bay Reservoir's.

Only 1 question left, how about the size for the fittings and tube?.

1/2 or 3/8.

Al the other hoses you can buy around here have smaller inner diameters.

And how much millimeter or mm is the size of the tubes, because in the netherlands they do not work with inches.......

intel igent

03-13-2008, 08:10 PM

6/7mm = 1/4"

9/10mm = 3/8"

12/13mm = 1/2"

a reservoir has no effect on temps.

:toast:

[MD]Phantom

03-13-2008, 08:26 PM

Here is the review, witch is about the swiftech micro reservoir.

http://www.rbmods.com/Articles/Swiftech/Mcres_micro/1.php

Testing:

Our testing results show that you get a very quiet system with this tank, it has a type of design that makes it run very quiet you don't get as much bubbles and air which usually make the noise. Temperature wise we had some issues as we ran it with our testing rig. We have a custom built system with this tank, Maze 4 , BlackIce Extreme, 2 fans at 5V on rad, Eheim 1048. The CPU that this system cools is a Intel P4 3,8 GHz. With idle temperatures we were up at 50C as the ambient temperature was up to 24C today. Under load we ran between 55-57C which is quite high, comparing this all to a bigger tank we had a 7 degrees higher in idle mode and 10 degrees higher in full load. As we see the small amount of water heats up a bit faster than with a bigger tank as we ran the fans on low speed to keep the system quiet.

Conclusion:

It's a very small tank and this would probably do awesome in a barebone system but for a bigger rig I don't think this is the best choice. I think I covered most of the important facts in the testing part so all I can really say is that this is a nice little tank even though I had some problems mounting it and with a bigger system it has some temperature issues. I want to give this 3 out of 5 for the size and quality on it.

Pros:

+ Size
+ Quality
+ Two sizes of tubing

Cons:

- Hard to mount with the screws in most cases
- Temperature issues

EastCoasthandle

03-13-2008, 08:46 PM

Interesting review. I use the Cyclone 120 (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=318&products_id=20585). However, this is a very large reservoir and would normally mount were the rad box would go. Not everyone would have the room for it.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/Cyclone120_03.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/WATER%20COOLING/Cyclone120_05.jpg

[MD]Phantom

03-13-2008, 08:48 PM

Hmmm don't think it would fit me no, i already found interesting reservoirs.

The XSPC 5.25 bay reservoir.

http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=216

and the reviews i read about it where good too, and i like seeing the water so i can check it without having too crowl under my desk.;)

6/7mm = 1/4"

9/10mm = 3/8"

12/13mm = 1/2"

When i read this i get the feeling that bigger tubes is better?, or is there a level in wich the tubes become too big and the pressure wil drop too much.( i hope this does not sound too noobish)

DaMulta

03-13-2008, 08:58 PM

Persoanly east I think the Dangerden res is the pick for me.
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=53&cat=27&page=1
http://www.dangerden.com/store/image.php?type=D&id=85?1205438942875

Who uses all of their bay spots? Perfect place to put it IMO.

or what [MD]Phantom just posted above.

DanishDevil

03-13-2008, 09:00 PM

I was thinking about having a lot less water with the micro res too, and I'm going to have at least 3 if not 4 free 5.25" bays in my system. I'm not sure what I want to do with them yet, but I'm gonna get the MicroRes to start.

One reason I think those guys had that result was that they are using very low powered fans in their rig, and they are probably not really cooling the water that much. I would be willing to wager that their water sitting in their reservoir probably cooled as much as the radiator cooled it, and that's why they saw the rise in temps.

EastCoasthandle

03-13-2008, 09:04 PM

I agree, a bay res would be best for most PCs.

DaMulta

03-13-2008, 09:10 PM

BUT the one that you use would be easier to fill. The bay units collect plenty of bubbles when filling, making it a pain the ass sometimes.

[MD]Phantom

03-13-2008, 09:23 PM

Check this review and maybee you'll change youre mind.;)

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?type=3&id=98&page=1&desc=xspc_plexi_bay_reservoir__black_

intel igent

03-13-2008, 09:24 PM

@ [MD] : it is a moot point because your load temps will always be the same regardless of reservoir size.

eg: my temps wont change at all if i switched from a T-line to a reservoir

reservoirs are a personal choice thing ;) the swiftech just happens to be the most widely used :rolleyes:

:toast:

EastCoasthandle

03-13-2008, 09:31 PM

BUT the one that you use would be easier to fill. The bay units collect plenty of bubbles when filling, making it a pain the ass sometimes.

Yup, that's why I stopped using the bay res.

[MD]Phantom

03-13-2008, 09:54 PM

I agree, a bay res would be best for most PCs.

Yup, that's why I stopped using the bay res

It is just me or??????:confused:

DaMulta

03-13-2008, 09:58 PM

what he is saying that the bay is the easiest to use, because there is a place for it in almost all pcs.

Where the one he is using is better, but a harder place to find to place it at.

DanishDevil

03-13-2008, 10:03 PM

Quick question: Is there a backplate for AM2 with the Fuzion that I should look into getting, or is what comes with the block sufficient?

DaMulta

03-13-2008, 10:36 PM

I used my old backplat that came with the AM2 motherboard.

Works great.

EastCoasthandle

03-13-2008, 10:47 PM

what he is saying that the bay is the easiest to use, because there is a place for it in almost all pcs.

Where the one he is using is better, but a harder place to find to place it at.
:toast:
I try not to transfer my experience regarding the bay res onto others as they have had more success with it.

DaMulta

03-13-2008, 11:01 PM

Ok:)

[MD]Phantom

03-14-2008, 08:04 PM

So you had some BAD expirence with them right?.

Well i always mention BAD expirereances to poeple if it is regarded too the hardware or software.

If it is more like personal feelings for the hard or software i do also but with the information that I did not like it, not that it is faulty in general.

Because if the other just does not know, it might offer him some help and assistence, if i tell him my expiriences about the item.

Nevertheless ill go for the bay's.

EastCoasthandle

03-15-2008, 01:07 PM

Phantom;701299']So you had some BAD expirence with them right?.

Well i always mention BAD expirereances to poeple if it is regarded too the hardware or software.

If it is more like personal feelings for the hard or software i do also but with the information that I did not like it, not that it is faulty in general.

Because if the other just does not know, it might offer him some help and assistence, if i tell him my expiriences about the item.

Nevertheless ill go for the bay's.
Please read post 229 for an explanation, thanks! :)

v1Powered

03-20-2008, 04:48 AM

Whats up guys, just surfing through the forums as usual figured Id post a link to my setup...
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/1436.html

All specs are in the gallery page!

EastCoasthandle

03-21-2008, 11:36 PM

Whats up guys, just surfing through the forums as usual figured Id post a link to my setup...
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/1436.html

All specs are in the gallery page!

Nice setup, thanks for sharing :toast:

jim2k

03-23-2008, 10:22 PM

hi can any one advise me on a good external water cooling kit?

thanks

intel igent

03-23-2008, 10:25 PM

hi can any one advise me on a good external water cooling kit?

thanks

whats the budget?

jim2k

03-23-2008, 11:07 PM

whats the budget?

£100 to £150???

EastCoasthandle

03-29-2008, 04:30 PM

£100 to £150???
Sorry for the late reply, I am not familiar with pricing in your area however here is what I can offer:

-Thermalright LGA775 RM Retension Bracket
-D-Tek FuZion CPU WB
-D5 Pump or MSP655
-Swiftech MCR220 or MCR320 (if you can find a place for it)
-applicable tube clamps

You have to decide on what size tubing your want. Be it 7/16" ID or smaller (for example). Also, you have to decide on a T-line or Reservoir. Personally I would go with a reservoir. Do you plan on water cooling the GPU as well?

EastCoasthandle

03-31-2008, 10:18 PM

Has anyone tried the fatboy barbs yet?

intel igent

03-31-2008, 10:21 PM

Has anyone tried the fatboy barbs yet?

havent tried them myself but i heard they are the flow kings of barbs

:toast:

EastCoasthandle

03-31-2008, 10:25 PM

Here is a review (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/Thermochill-PA-120_3-Review.html) using a reducer

Wile E

04-01-2008, 03:54 AM

Man, I really want to get a Thermochill PA rad.

asb2106

04-01-2008, 06:58 PM

:toast:
I try not to transfer my experience regarding the bay res onto others as they have had more success with it.

I have had good and bad experiences with bay reservoirs, I have a solid plastic single bay rez from sidewindercomputers now and it works great, before this I had a CrazyPC dual bay clear acrylic bay rez that worked good for about a month, and one day just lost its seal and spilt all its water along the front of my case. The front bezel that was glued on failed and released all the water. I have temps monitors in bios running, so it was ok, but I have to pull the CPU to reset he board to get it to work. And a hell of a mess to clean in my p180!

So I have mixed feeling about them. I would love to get another clear acrylic, I think they look awesome. Im just really scared of it leaking again, and maybe taking other components with it.

oily_17

04-01-2008, 08:04 PM

Here is a review (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/Thermochill-PA-120_3-Review.html) using a reducer

Thanks for the link,some good info there.Seems to be little difference in the two barbs used,only when you get over 3.5GPM, and in a typical PC set up I dont think there should be any really determinable difference.

Will be getting a Thermochill-PA-120_3 for my new set up when I can find a D-Tek FuZion for sale in the UK,they are like hen's teeth to find at the moment.

intel igent

04-02-2008, 01:56 PM

should be some interesting stuff in the RAD world weve got the new fesser rads and the BI GTX's seem to be giving thermochill some competition

cant wait to see some reviews

:toast:

Grings

04-02-2008, 02:11 PM

I like the GTX rads, but they're just so damn expensive here, it's £65 for a 3x120mm as opposed to £55 for a thermochill 3x, and the coloured ones cost even more (£84 for a chrome one:eek:) though they do look awesome, and the 4x120mm ones look mental (wheres the uberstacker coolermaster?)

any links to the feser ones?

domy85

04-06-2008, 08:57 PM

Whats a good coolant thats lasts long and prevents corosion and algee the best for the switchtech h20-220 ultra?

intel igent

04-06-2008, 09:30 PM

Whats a good coolant thats lasts long and prevents corosion and algee the best for the switchtech h20-220 ultra?

hydrX and distilled ;)

@ grings : just google "fesser rads" :p

:toast:

Dr. Spankenstein

04-06-2008, 09:38 PM

What is everyone's preferred method of cleaning their rads before installing?

I thought I had rinsed it pretty thoroughly with hot tap water, shaken like a madman, repeat 10X. Rinse 5x with distilled to remove and minerals from tap water flush.

I think I tried to get a little "fancy" with my flush and tried some Scrubbing Bubbles because I saw someone use it on XS. I was not about to use any vinegar, but Scrubbing Bubbles seemed to be a nice alternative. (Potentially some anti-algae properties.)

Maybe I didn't rinse well enough, but my Primoflex tubes are completely coated internally with a white (and when dry, powdery) substance.

Could it be flux or something. Only other thing I did was added a couple extra drops of PT Nuke to the distilled. My copper is a little blackened now as well.

It's all apart awaiting my new mobo so thought I'd take the opportunity to clean it proper.

Any experiences/suggestions?

intel igent

04-06-2008, 10:00 PM

i use hot water, vinegar and CLR.

works for me :confused:

i start with a soak in CLR, then flush with vinegar, then with hot water

Dr. Spankenstein

04-06-2008, 10:06 PM

Are those heater cores copper?

Never thought of CLR (Calcium, Rust, Lime)! Great idea!

Ever had any clouding? My water was pretty milky when I dumped it.:(

intel igent

04-06-2008, 10:32 PM

yep, ma H/C is copper/brass and the swiftech is the same

i just make shure that i flush everything out REALLY well before re-assembling my loop

i use a vinegar bath for my blocks.

people say not to use CLR or vinegar for rads but its never hurt me so :confused:

my tubes get the same milky build up on the inside but my loop was up for quite a long time (2+yrs), i was running 90% distilled with 10% antifreeze

i threw one of the tubes in a bucket with warm soapy water and it seems to take the stuff off, with help from an old toothbrush

:toast:

Dr. Spankenstein

04-06-2008, 10:36 PM

Right on! Thanks for all the help!:toast:

Mine started to build up the scale about 2 months in. I must not have been very thorough in my rinse!:o

domy85

04-06-2008, 11:35 PM

Dr. Spankenstein

04-07-2008, 12:24 AM

It developed a white scale (like around faucets in the shower) from something leaching into the coolant (in my case-distilled water w/PT Nuke). I have yet to clean it out.

It is a generally accepted proceedure to flush your radiator thoroughly before installing since there is a lot of flux residue left from the manufacturing process. This is ONE of the reasons for cloudy tubes/water.

domy85

04-07-2008, 12:54 AM

My old thermaltake bigwater system with a external radiator never had that problem. I ran it for months on end and it was always clear with no white or milky residue. Possibly the type of fluid is doing that?

Also i was reading through and i couldnt find a real sure answer on what to use to clean the new radiator if necessary that wont leave a milky residue. Hot water wont work?