Dont Oc a 3870x2 on stock cooling

[Nitro-Max]

Well i ran some tests on dual monitors with ccc panel open on one to monitor temps i ran counterstrike source on the other now the card is at stock i found running css in low detail only uses 2d clock speeds but still preforms great and max temps got to around 72c but only around 40% of the gpu was been used.

i then started css again but with everything up full aa & af the lot and again still preformed really well but now it uses the full 825mhz clock with gpu ranging from 40 to 60+% utilized but the temps get this 82c and this was just a few mins into the game at stock!!

So i would really advise not to overclock your 3870x2 at all on the stock cooler or it could be R.I.P. for your card.

[OrbitzXT]

Punctuation, please. A period, comma, something! Thank you for the advice though

[Hawk1]

Punctuation, please. A period, comma, something!

LOL
My, someones in a pissy mood today.

Thanks for the info Nitro. Good to know.

[OrbitzXT]

Haha I'm just kidding around, but its difficult to read when I'm tired and just waking up. The only form of typing that really annoys me is when An Idiot Capitalizes The First Letter In Every Single Word. I Don't Know Why They Do It But I Just Find It Unbearable To Read. I Think My Brain Pauses With Every Word Seeing A Capital Letter And Thinks A New Sentence Is Starting.

[mdm-adph]

Punctuation, please. A period, comma, something! Thank you for the advice though

You left off a period there yourself, bud. :p

[craigwhiteside]

lol............................................... ...................

sums up the last few posts pretty well.

[Nitro-Max]

I just cant be botherd to be honest sorry if it upsets anyone if i was sat down writing a letter to somone then id pay attention to detail but on here i just cant be botherd lol ive got too used to shortening words its just bad internet habbits.

[pcgolfer85]

I just cant be botherd to be honest sorry if it upsets anyone if i was sat down writing a letter to somone then id pay attention to detail but on here i just cant be botherd lol ive got too used to shortening words its just bad internet habbits.

OMG@! That is hard to read...very straining on the eyes.

I agree with OrbitzXT.

[Nitro-Max]

OMG@! That is hard to read...very straining on the eyes.

I agree with OrbitzXT.

am i botherd though??? i think not

[pcgolfer85]

am i botherd though??? i think not

:twitch:

[cdawall]

back on topic now

[Hawk1]

Now, now, lets not go off on tangents here. It's first thing in the morning (for some of us), so time to get a mug o' java.

[Whilhelm]

In CCC when you were checking the temps and GPU usage did you check both cores. There is a dropdown box that lets you select each core and they may both be reading different. your readings may have been coming from the second core farthest away from the fan. I am sure the hot air coming off the first core is hitting the second heatsink and not cooling it as well. IMO both heatsinks should have been made of the same material Aluminum or Copper but I am sure Ati chose to do it that way for a reason. Yeah and i agree with you not to overclock this beast with the stock cooler at default fan settings becasue it won't go far at all before becoming really unstable.

[Scrizz]

how's the fan speed on the x2
if it's like the regular 3870, you're gonna need to up the fan

[Whilhelm]

I don't know if I am the only one but I cannot get Ati tool to work with the X2 so I can't mess with the fan settings. What other programs can you use to change fan speeds? It seems to me though that the fan is not spinning up anywhere near 100% under full load because when I boot the system the fan goes 100% at post for a few seconds and that is the loudest I have ever heard it.

[newtekie1]

In W1zzard's review, he overclocked the card and got 918MHz out of it on the stock cooler. Temps hit 80°C on one core on his, but I'm sure he set the fan to 100%, the other core was a lot cooler though(just the nature of the cooling design).

80°C still isn't that bad, and nothing to worry about.

[CY:G]

ohh that sucks, i was planning on doing some light OC with the stock cooler, like newtekie said it can probably be done... hopefully ATI Tool works on mine...

[Whilhelm]

Ya I frequently saw temps in the 90s on my X1950pros and they seemed to be able to take it. Every once in a while Ati tool would randomly decide to turn off my video card fans completely. Luckily I noticed this as my temps were through the roof at 110! Still the cards work fine so 80 on my new 3870 X2 is not even that worrying to me.

[trog100]

why on earth do folks think running at 90 C is will kill or damage a card.. also the fan speed will be dynamically controlled.. if the temps try and go up the fan will run faster..

can somebody produce some evidence that running at 90 C will damage a card..

can we also have some evidence of the same for a cpu.. i get bored with this mythical obsession with low temps.. i recon its time it was discussed sensibly instead of just being taken for granted and passed around..

my 1900xtx ran at 90 C without a problem so does my 3870.. so why the obsession.. ????

trog

[Whilhelm]

I agree with you for the most part but there is definatly a point where heat becomes damaging. Usually though the system will lock up/reboot before any serious damage is done. I know that Gpus in general are safe up to around 100 but if you can keep the temps below that then why not do so. It seems logical to me to keep the temps as low as finacially/physically possible.

[trog100]

I agree with you for the most part but there is definatly a point where heat becomes damaging. Usually though the system will lock up/reboot before any serious damage is done. I know that Gpus in general are safe up to around 100 but if you can keep the temps below that then why not do so. It seems logical to me to keep the temps as low as finacially/physically possible.

that is the beginning of reasonable discussion..

It seems logical to me to keep the temps as low as finacially/physically possible

lets add "reasonable" and "beneficial"l to that..

we can also add the "noise" factor....

i recon ati seem to think that reasonable "cost".. reasonable "noise" reasonable "temperatures" reasonably "life span".. all add up to cards running at 90 C...

so what is to be gained by attempting to lower that 90 C.. ???

ati havnt skimped on these cooler to save a penny.. they simply choose to run the fan noise free and target 90 C load temps..

sometimes the manufacturer uses the cooler to down grade a cards performance.. this isnt the case with ati 3870 cards x1 or x 2..

cool enough is the key.. as cool as possible isnt.. so whats wrong with 90 C..

trog

[Whilhelm]

90 C at stock settings is perfectly fine for this card but the problem that I have noticed is you get no overclocking headroom at all. My cards Cores can go maybe 15 or 20 Mhz faster but the temps start getting close to the 100s and that is where stability goes out the window on my card. So my main point was that if I can get the fan going faster and the card running a few degrees cooler then I may be able to attain a higher overclock. Weather or not the OC has a significant effect performance is just for curiositys sake. I am honestly happy with the cards performance at stock but it is always interesting to see how much extra speed you can get out of it. As for fan noise at full speed this card is still quieter then a pair of X1950pros on stock cooling. Those things start to get whiny at higher temperatures.

And from Atis' point of view I completly understand their decisions regarding noise and heat output becasue what they came up with obviously works fine. If they felt that 90 C was too hot either we would be looking at a different cooler design or hearing a much noisier fan.

[Nitro-Max]

Well me personally i aint willing to risk £280 for a few more fps the cost definatly out weighs the need. i touched the 2nd monitor socket during the test and that felt real hot to the touch so the gpus must be sizzleing.

[Scrizz]

oooo gimme gimme

[Dr. Spankenstein]

It does seem to flirt with the stability borderline.

When the card waits until 90C to start spinning up, I have noticed immediate freezes if you have overclocked/overvolted the cards because the temperature jump happens so fast that the threshold gets crossed before the card has time to react.

This was when I was attempting to use lower fan speeds. @100% fan it peaks at 71C under sustained load with the stock cooler.

[trog100]

u talking about your way overvolted card dr or a normal one.. he he

but i recon when the card is taken right to the edge of stability running at say 70 as opposed to 90 is good for about 5mhz on the core..

this is not about damage thow.. and the alternative to extra cooling is simply lower the cards core speed by about 5mhz.. it will never be noticable in real life and is easier than trying to lower the temps by 20 C just to get 5mhz more core speed..

my card came clocked at 777 core.. it overclocked quite happily to around 840 gaming stable.. still at 90 C..

noise is relative and some folks think if their system dont sound like a tornao it aint a real one.. he he

but the cooler on the single 3870 at 100% is way too loud for most i would say.. it dosnt whine but it "roars" like a leaf blower.. i do turn mine up there for right on the edge extreme benching.. no way for gaming thow..

some have said we should get the choice in the CCC..

trog

[Scrizz]

but i recon when the card is taken right to the edge of stability running at say 70 as
noise is relative and some folks think if their system dont sound like a tornao it aint a real one.. he he

trog

amen :toast: :rockout:

[Nitro-Max]

Tbh noise isnt a problem for me when im gaming i use my head set anyway.So i wouldnt hear the fan.

[fitseries3]

what can i use to OC and change fan speed on my X2?

[Wile E]

why on earth do folks think running at 90 C is will kill or damage a card.. also the fan speed will be dynamically controlled.. if the temps try and go up the fan will run faster..

can somebody produce some evidence that running at 90 C will damage a card..

can we also have some evidence of the same for a cpu.. i get bored with this mythical obsession with low temps.. i recon its time it was discussed sensibly instead of just being taken for granted and passed around..

my 1900xtx ran at 90 C without a problem so does my 3870.. so why the obsession.. ????

trogThe cooler you can get a cpu/gpu, the less voltage it needs (in general) to achieve the same speeds. It's overall easier on the card. That's not to say that it won't live a long and happy life at 90C, but it's better to err on the side of caution with such things, imo.

[imperialreign]

OCability and heat output really boils down to the specific GPU, though, also - even with an efficient stock cooler, some designs just can't handle going too high as compared to others. Take ATI's RV570 - 614/756 seems to be the ceiling on the cards, even with vmodding and beefed cooling - and anything over 610/729 is really negligible.

On the otherhand - my older X700 PRO would clock to sick extremes, and still be under that 100C "red line".

TBH - my personal feeling, is that the only productive thing you're really accomplishing by being able to keep a GPU below 80C under full load, is to lower ambient temps in your case. Sure, it'll extend the card's life a bit longer, sure you might get .25 FPS more, but how are we measuring those benefits? What's the standard for those perks?

[trog100]

TBH - my personal feeling, is that the only productive thing you're really accomplishing by being able to keep a GPU below 80C under full load, is to lower ambient temps in your case. Sure, it'll extend the card's life a bit longer, sure you might get .25 FPS more, but how are we measuring those benefits? What's the standard for those perks?

i think u a bit off target with that one cos most folks who worry about their card temps remove a perfectly good cooler that exhausts outside the case and replace it with an after market one that feeds the heat into the case.. they do the opposite and raise the ambient temps in the case..

a silly idea to me but its par for the course..

trog

[Wile E]

i think u a bit off target with that one cos most folks who worry about their card temps remove a perfectly good cooler that exhausts outside the case and replace it with an after market one that feeds the heat into the case.. they do the opposite and raise the ambient temps in the case..

a silly idea to me but its par for the course..

trogThe benefit of doing so also depends on the individual's airflow arrangement. If they have poor airflow, doing this will hurt them. If they have very good airflow, the extra heat in the case is minimal, and easily outweighed by the reduction of gpu temps.

As a for instance, when I had my X1800XT, I slapped an Accellero X2 on it. My chipset and boards temps went up a measly 1-2C, but my gpu temps dropped by a solid 15C under load.

[imperialreign]

The benefit of doing so also depends on the individual's airflow arrangement. If they have poor airflow, doing this will hurt them. If they have very good airflow, the extra heat in the case is minimal, and easily outweighed by the reduction of gpu temps.

As a for instance, when I had my X1800XT, I slapped an Accellero X2 on it. My chipset and boards temps went up a measly 1-2C, but my gpu temps dropped by a solid 15C under load.

But this, I think, is where it comes down to personal tastes, too. I mean, we all know what kind of temps GPUs tend to run at - but how do we feel individually about how hot our card is running? Even still enabling a card to run at 70C under load will extend it's useful lifetime like any other component, but when the GPU was designed to be able to run perfectly fine at 80C, will the extension to the cards life really ever be reaped? Even running a stock cooled card, moderately OCed will still be outdated by newer tech long before the car actually "dies".

One thought, though, that slipped my mind earlier that I can see as being a good reason for a better GPU cooling solution - when faced with more demanding applications, a good cooler will prevent a GPU from slowly creeping it's way to shut-down temp. Again, for example, my two 1950s handle even the most current games; but ever since I accidentally broke my rear case fan and had to use a low-speed replacement, I can only play Crysis for about 15-20min before one of the cores shut down, and VPU recover kicks it back in - 5min after that the system will hang requiring a reboot. With the fan that was installed prior - never an issue as it moved more air than the one sitting there now - the cards are just getting too warm, even though they can handle Crysis. But, also shows how critical good case air flow is, too.

i think u a bit off target with that one cos most folks who worry about their card temps remove a perfectly good cooler that exhausts outside the case and replace it with an after market one that feeds the heat into the case.. they do the opposite and raise the ambient temps in the case..

a silly idea to me but its par for the course..

trog

I agree here - my personal preference would be to have a cooler that exhausts out the back, as the design itself also aids internal case airflow as well.

I should've been more specific, though, in my original statement. Going from a dual slot exhaust cooler like that might bump internal temps a bit (or more depending on case flow); but going from a single slot OE internal cooler to a more efficient internal cooler would more than likely lower case temps a bit (provided you already have good case flow as well). The single slot OE coolers that just recirculate air in the case have never really been known for being the most efficient out there in most circumstances.

[fitseries3]

i cant get the driver to install and work. what the hell? HELP!!!

[trog100]

i recon when it comes down to it.. noise is the thing.. kids actually like making it.. :laugh:

lots of noisy fans blasting way more dusty air thru a case is good to some..

why care about exhausting card heat out the case directly.. lets have some more case fans.. good case cooling my ass..

good case cooling to me is minimum fans.. minimum noise and no more dusty air thru my case than i have to.. especially while playing music or browsing..

any fool can cool anything by blasting tornados over it.. and if the noise dosnt matter or its even liked.. who cares.. the cooler the better.. he he he

but if silent (or reasonably quiet) computing is desired.. we really are in a different ball park..

to me "the cooler the better" arguement is total sh-t.. it wrecks my "silent" or reasonably silent computing desires..

no cooler than it has to be works for me.. the cooler the better is for kids who like noise and those who simply think it has to be this way cos they know no better....

trog

[Tatty_One]

I have seen no evidence that 90C will damage the card however 90C is more likely to cause damage than 80C :D

It is nice to see my american friends discussing the finer points of the "Queens" english :toast:

[trog100]

I have seen no evidence that 90C will damage the card however 90C is more likely to cause damage than 80C :D

It is nice to see my american friends discussing the finer points of the "Queens" english :toast:

he he he.. AND SO ON INFINITUM.. :laugh:

trog

[MadCow]

i recon when it comes down to it.. noise is the thing.. kids actually like making it.. :laugh:

lots of noisy fans blasting way more dusty air thru a case is good to some..

why care about exhausting card heat out the case directly.. lets have some more case fans.. good case cooling my ass..

good case cooling to me is minimum fans.. minimum noise and no more dusty air thru my case than i have to.. especially while playing music or browsing..

any fool can cool anything by blasting tornados over it.. and if the noise dosnt matter or its even liked.. who cares.. the cooler the better.. he he he

but if silent (or reasonably quiet) computing is desired.. we really are in a different ball park..

to me "the cooler the better" arguement is total sh-t.. it wrecks my "silent" or reasonably silent computing desires..

no cooler than it has to be works for me.. the cooler the better is for kids who like noise and those who simply think it has to be this way cos they know no better....

trog

I pretty much have the same opinion. That's why i always have the bare minimum amount of fans, apart from the video cards, cpu and PSU I have 1 intake fan connected to a fan controller. It essentially has 2 modes, silent and nearly silent. :laugh: All my other fans were designed to be a quiet as possible.

That's why I always go for the most silent coolers I can find, my system and nice and cool and I can barely hear it. I can't stand fan noise, but that's likely because I used to have an incredibly loud Thermaltake cooler on my old athlon xp rig that I could hear from 2 rooms away with both doors closed.:laugh:

[Wile E]

i recon when it comes down to it.. noise is the thing.. kids actually like making it.. :laugh:

lots of noisy fans blasting way more dusty air thru a case is good to some..

why care about exhausting card heat out the case directly.. lets have some more case fans.. good case cooling my ass..

good case cooling to me is minimum fans.. minimum noise and no more dusty air thru my case than i have to.. especially while playing music or browsing..

any fool can cool anything by blasting tornados over it.. and if the noise dosnt matter or its even liked.. who cares.. the cooler the better.. he he he

but if silent (or reasonably quiet) computing is desired.. we really are in a different ball park..

to me "the cooler the better" arguement is total sh-t.. it wrecks my "silent" or reasonably silent computing desires..

no cooler than it has to be works for me.. the cooler the better is for kids who like noise and those who simply think it has to be this way cos they know no better....

trogWell, I can't argue with someone wanting silence, but in my Stacker 830 Evo, most of my fans are lower flow Scythe S-Flex 120mm fans 8dBA/38cfm. There's just a ton of fans in my case. 8 to be exact. It's actually very quiet, yet cools massively.

Like I said, it all depends on your setup. I have the best of both worlds with my case. Low noise, and high cooling ability.

Now, more about noise, if that's a major concern, you can look at it another way as well. Changing the stock cooler on a gfx card generally results in a quieter gfx card. No matter how you look at it, it's a tradeoff somewhere.

[Wile E]

i cant get the driver to install and work. what the hell? HELP!!!Did you try the Vendor's website instead of ATI's?

[trog100]

its all a trade off.. my case runs at near room ambient with three large slow running fans.. two would do the job.. the large (600 rpm) side fan is just to blow air on the grafix card area..

but there is no such thing as a totally silent fan.. so i recon u have more than u need wile.. but thats your choice..

but if i follow the "cooler the better" principle they would all be running flat out..

this of course begs a question wile.. if i can keep my case at room ambient with three very slow running fans.. how come u need eight..

and is your idea of "low noise" the same as mine i wonder..

trog

[Wile E]

its all a trade off.. my case runs at near room ambient with three large slow running fans.. two would do the job.. the large (600 rpm) side fan is just to blow air on the grafix card area..

but there is no such thing as a totally silent fan.. so i recon u have more than u need wile.. but thats your choice..

but if i follow the "cooler the better" principle they would all be running flat out..

this of course begs a question wile.. if i can keep my case at room ambient with three very slow running fans.. how come u need eight..

and is your idea of "low noise" the same as mine i wonder..

trogWell, 8dBA is nearly inaudible, unless you have your ear a couple inches from them. That's why I choose them. Considering they're only 30 something cfm and 800rpm, and so silent, I choose to use a bunch of them for no noise, but still maintain high flow. Plus my case has all the mounts there, why not use them? lol.

Anyway, My gfx card cooler makes more noise than all these S-Flex (model #SFF-21D) fans.

[imperialreign]

IDK - fan noise isn't much of a concern for me. Growing up with those old skool desktops - noise was just par for the course if anyone remembers . . . hell, TBH, I swear my Stacker 830 running 8 med speed fans under 100% load is quieter than most early computers ever were.

I'm all for the idea of a silent setup, too, but in my mind, a silent rig consists mostly of strategically placed very low speed fans and passive coolers - or water cooling + low speed fans and passive coolers.

But, again, I grew up with air cooling, and am not still 100% keen on the idea of going over to liquid. Until I reach the point where I'm making enough noise to bother me, or average component temps have reached a thermal ceiling that I just can no longer cool with air; I'll stick by my fans.

But, everyone's cooling setups will always be as individual as everyone's individual rig


It is nice to see my american friends discussing the finer points of the "Queens" english

we'll talk about it now and then - but we usually end up feeling very "common" next to a brit because of speech differences . . . even more so if we speak American Southern.

[zOaib]

It does seem to flirt with the stability borderline.

When the card waits until 90C to start spinning up, I have noticed immediate freezes if you have overclocked/overvolted the cards because the temperature jump happens so fast that the threshold gets crossed before the card has time to react.

This was when I was attempting to use lower fan speeds. @100% fan it peaks at 71C under sustained load with the stock cooler.

off topic but i am interested in knowing how your hd 3870 are performing in CF , what are u getting in 3dmark 06 thx