!!!read If You Use Paypal!!!

[fitseries3]

I need to inform you guys of paypals new practices.

Paypal now reserves the right to "Audit" any account and verify account activity is legitimate.

Q. when you sell something, whether it be on Ebay or the forums, do you send the item with a tracking number? do you submit that tracking number to paypal?

A. most people don't.

Why is this important?

If paypal decides to audit your account... any transaction in the last 12 months WILL BE addressed and if you cannot provide tracking numbers for items you have sold paypal will put a temporary hold on the amount for EACH transaction that you did not provide tracking info on.

this is NO JOKE! i do 30-50 paypal transactions a month and recently got audited. they took almost $4000 from my account and suspended all account activity until i could provide proof that i sent out all the items. it was a MESS, no DISASTER finding all those people and getting the tracking numbers for each item. i DO have the tracking numbers and i keep them, but they only tell you that the item was delivered and what date it got there. paypal WILL NOT "take the word" of the buyer who says "yeah, he shipped it to me and i got it." they MUST have a tracking number to prove it.

several other people on other forums and even on ebay have had this happen. paypal notified me that this new practice had been made effective 1-1-2008 and is in the TOS agreement on their site.

so what do you do?
from now on, when you sell something and receive payment through paypal... ship it with some sort of tracking number. whether it be UPS, FEDEX, USPS, DHL, etc.... GET A TRACKING NUMBER and log on to your paypal account... go to the transaction for that item you sold... and down at the bottom, you'll see..."Add tracking info"

im just trying to save you the hassle!

[Solaris17]

o damn....i man

[das müffin mann]

damn dude that sucks, i never really did like paypal, now this gives me another reason to continue not liking them, to bad its prob the safest and cheapest ways of sending money

[DaC]

does it includes money transfer ?
I mean, all moneytransfer must be backed by some info about it ??

DaC

[Skrabrug]

man that sucks massively.. but i only use paypal for buying stuff so i should be right.

[oli_ramsay]

Thanks for the heads up, kinda sucks that they started doing that. I assume it's not just impletmented in the US, but worldwide.

What would of happened if you send those $4000 worth of items without a tracking number? Would they just of debitted your bank account and metaphorically raped you?

That really sucks of them.

[SK-1]

This freaked me out so I called and the story I got was, "it takes someone getting complaints from buyers to trigger any type of audit". Take that for what it is worth.

[fitseries3]

This freaked me out so I called and the story I got was, "it takes someone getting complaints from buyers to trigger any type of audit". Take that for what it is worth.

read my feedback. i ship stuff ASAP and use tracking numbers every time. i am at the computer answering questions within seconds that i get them. my item detail is very thorough. what could've i done to deserve complaints?

they audited my stepdads account and he only uses it once every month or so.

[das müffin mann]

have had to good of service?

[Solaris17]

have had to good of service?

+1 i would have complained cause u were making me look bad.

[kylew]

read my feedback. i ship stuff ASAP and use tracking numbers every time. i am at the computer answering questions within seconds that i get them. my item detail is very thorough. what could've i done to deserve complaints?

they audited my stepdads account and he only uses it once every month or so.

Nothing sometimes, Some people are just like that. Wouldn't be surprised if it was just random auditing though, some how this doesn't seem legal to just seize $4000 for stuff that was sold before their rule came into effect. Good luck on sorting it out though, and thanks for the heads up, I'll make sure i add tracking info if I sell something and receive payment via paypal.

[Kursah]

Dunno why PayPal wants to mess with ya fit, I've had an excellent experience purchasing from ya! But I think there's some sort of legality that will bite them in the ass for things like this. Sure it's nice to know they're watching, but I feel unless reported or highly suspicious...they shouldn't act in such a way. Thanks for the heads up!

:toast:

[fitseries3]

it has happened to Mgorius over at evga forums, a few people on PCpitstop, my stepdad, several others. im just warning others to be more carefull.

they dont take the moey from your bank account or anything, just your paypal account. i had a negative balance of $39XX.XX for over a week.

[WarEagleAU]

Royally sucks. Ive never sold anything, but if I ever do, Ill be damn sure to get a tracking number and not go through this bullcrap. Id likely send them a bomb or something if they did that to me.

[acperience7]

Thank you very much. I just started using PayPal and made my first sale a month ago without giving them a tracking number.

[Scrizz]

Thx, for the heads up man!

[fitseries3]

this SHOULD be a sticky. i dont want others to go through this crap i had to go through.

[das müffin mann]

does this apply if your transferring money to a family member?

[CyberDruid]

does it includes money transfer ?
I mean, all moneytransfer must be backed by some info about it ??

DaC

That would have to apply only to "Goods" not services.

[das müffin mann]

alright thanks that answers my question

[fitseries3]

anything that is sold on ebay or declared as goods through paypal. when you send someone money it asks you what the money is for.
thanks CD.

[eva2000]

That would have to apply only to "Goods" not services.

sounds like ebay only transactions ?

Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement
Effective Date: 14 March 2008

Beginning 14 March 2008 the User Agreement will be amended as follows and now include a new section 11 dealing with "holds".

PayPal is also amending its product disclosure statement effective 14 March 2008, to include a new section entitled eBay Transaction Holds which describes the circumstances under which PayPal may hold funds received, relating to eBay transactions.

Section 11 of the User Agreement will read:

"11. PayPal's Right to Hold Funds. In order to ensure the integrity of a transaction PayPal reserves the right to hold funds or proceeds from transactions by placing them in a "pending" or hold status beyond the normal distribution period. PayPal may do this in order to mitigate risk related to transactions it considers suspicious.

eBay Transaction Holds. PayPal may, in its sole discretion, determine to place a hold on a payment you receive for an eBay transaction, based on the reasonable belief that there may be a risk associated with the transaction. Such a hold will show as "pending" in your PayPal Account. PayPal will release the eBay transaction hold after 21 days from the date the hold is placed, unless you receive a Dispute, Claim, Chargeback, or Reversal on the transaction subject to the hold, in which case PayPal may hold the payment until the matter is resolved pursuant to this Agreement. PayPal may choose to release the hold earlier if the buyer leaves positive feedback on eBay or where PayPal is otherwise satisfied that the transaction has completed successfully."

[Pinchy]

I've always hated PayPal. The have ripped me off so many times. I just use it cus its convenient.

I don't see how thats legal though...what do they do with the money, give it back to the buyer :p?

[candle_86]

yea same prob as you man, my paypal shows -400 right now, havnt used it in 6 months now, WTF.

What really sucks is one of them for 200 bucks was a friend helping me out to pay rent, and it was paypal to paypal with nothing else entitled. I can't provide tracking info

[coodiggy]

due process and legal requirements/ legal rights thrown out the window in lue of temporary security? sounds like a familiar quote....

[JaYp146]

OP, did you use and/or print USPS Priorty labels online to ship your items?

[fitseries3]

never online. got delivery confirmation at the post office every time though.

[Xazax]

Your a good seller and excellent to deal with ;) sucks to hear what happen but i cant blame paypal even its a little over-excessive.

Thanks for the heads-up, i never knew nor got an E-mail about this so i woulda been really screwed(about %90 of money i make is through paypal).

Went down and got most if not all the Trk #'s for every item i have received payment from hopefully that will atleast ward them off.

[lemonadesoda]

I see that as PURE THEFT on the part of paypal.

They are RETROSPECTIVELY implementing a policy rule, and then taking your money first, then asking questions later.

Paypal really needs to LOSE its banking license. Bunch of cowboys. I hate thought they had gotten over that type of behaviour since the acquisition by ebay. But obviously not. Remember, they HAVE deprived you of your money. They are not the police with a court order. They have committed theft IMO.

PS: There are a lot of TERRIBLE fraudulent sellers on ebay, but this is NOT the way to manage it. Some paypal execs need to fall on swords.

[JaYp146]

never online. got delivery confirmation at the post office every time though.

That's probably why they audited you. Online printed shipping labels certainly allay Paypal's skepticism. It's documented proof that things have shipped.

[newtekie1]

Q. when you sell something, whether it be on Ebay or the forums, do you send the item with a tracking number? do you submit that tracking number to paypal?

A. most people don't.

Yes, I do. Any semi-intellegent seller always does. Delivery Confirmation is only an extra $0.65 and it is well worth it. And it is saved my ass a few times already. It is so incredibly easy to file a claim with paypal stating that you never recieved the item, I've had 2 people try it on me so far. Both times I had already filed the Delivery Confirmation number with paypal, and both claims were rejected because the Delivery Confirmation number proved the item had been delivered.

read my feedback. i ship stuff ASAP and use tracking numbers every time. i am at the computer answering questions within seconds that i get them. my item detail is very thorough. what could've i done to deserve complaints?

they audited my stepdads account and he only uses it once every month or so.

I'm the exact same way, but I have still had 2 people file complaints with paypal trying to get their money back because they claimed they never got the item, like I said. The tracking info saved my ass. There are just people out there who are scammers and want something for nothing. So even though they get the item, they file a claim anyway, in the hopes that you can't prove you sent the item and paypal will refund the money, effectively giving them a free item. It is sad, but it is reality.

[Homeless]

I never even knew you could enter tracking info in paypal as i've never done it before. Just updated all my older transactions with tracking numbers.

[mrw1986]

Pulling all money from my paypal account now. Screw that. I have never had a negative transaction, but I never save my shipping info!

[newtekie1]

Oh, and it is reasons like this that I never keep any money in my paypal account. It all gets transfered to a real bank account within a day of getting it.

Oh, and this IS very useful information for people new to paypal, or even some not. I just kind of stumbled on the "Add Tracking Info" link on one of my early transactions and have been using it ever since.

I think paypal should make that option more visable/eye catching.

[CyberDruid]

Oh, and it is reasons like this that I never keep any money in my paypal account. It all gets transfered to a real bank account within a day of getting it.

Oh, and this IS very useful information for people new to paypal, or even some not. I just kind of stumbled on the "Add Tracking Info" link on one of my early transactions and have been using it ever since.

I think paypal should make that option more visable/eye catching.

But then they couldn't take your money ;)

You'd think skimming 3.3% would be enough...but I guess that's just the start...

[newtekie1]

But then they couldn't take your money ;)

You'd think skimming 3.3% would be enough...but I guess that's just the start...

Between eBay taking their percentage, and Paypal taking theirs, is it closer to 5-10%. Which is a really bitch considering the money is all going to the same place since they are the same company.

[ISMurphy]

nothing new, ive had an account locked for over 2 years and had over $10,000 tied up by them for a fraudulent BUYER on an ebay deal that i luckily saved, but ended up costing me $1000 in " buyer protection " when the dude went to jail, yet he was " covered " under their services.. took me two YEARS to get it back and sorted out, only after legal action did anythig actually happen, and a trip down to Omaha to their front door.

they have done this for years.

[SK-1]

Is there ANY decent pay-pal alternative?

[Sasqui]

Is there ANY decent pay-pal alternative?

Paypal = eBay (eBay owns them completely). They have quashed many attempts to circumvent Paypal, like Bidpay and there have been others. They have closed down auctions and implemented rules preventing other types of online money transfer so they could keep the peice of the Paypal pie.

It's a monopoly if you ask me.

On another note, I purchased some books on eBay, never got them, seller never refunded, so I posted an item not received complaint to Paypal. At the end of the time limit for a seller response, I was automatically refunded the money including shipping. The seller was nice (even though they never refunded)... I hope I didn't cause them too much grief by doing that.

[CyberDruid]

Nope. They are about the only game in town.

eBay is like a ghetto FleaMarket these days...unless you are selling absolute crap at "I stole this" prices all you get is spam and scam. Cost me about $80 in relists trying to sell a highend quad rig there...what a PITA.

I still use PP though because it works for me and my lil shop...and I don't do a large enough volume to warrant a real CC service.

I always use PP Click N Ship too so there should never be an issue.

[fitseries3]

even if you pull your money out of your paypal account guy... they can still audit you and take money. Hench the negative balance. they expect you to pay it back to them before you can close the account. if you don't pay, you get bad credit and they'll summon you to appear in court. the only thing you can do is close your account now and use something else.

google checkout is an alternative but i think they operate in a similar manner.

both ebay and paypal like to F___ people on their charges. it's been costing on average, $5-$7 to list an item, when it sells, they take $12-$20 more and then paypal takes $7-$20 depending on how much your sells for. greedy SOB's aren't they?

here's Mgorius' thread... they took $200 from him...
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=255374&mpage=2&key=񂣙

[CyberDruid]

Yeah it makes it impossible for a legit bidness man to list eBay...in fact I have to suspect a high percent of eBay goods are either stolen or in some way obtained in a scurilous manner...how else can someone list stuff cheaper than I buy direct through the MFR?

[fitseries3]

Yeah it makes it impossible for a legit bidness man to list eBay...in fact I have to suspect a high percent of eBay goods are either stolen or in some way obtained in a scurilous manner...how else can someone list stuff cheaper than I buy direct through the MFR?

LOL! i hear you on that. on Ebay it seems like everyone is taking a loss just to sell stuff. the economy is in a recession and people continue to loose money in hope for sales to rise again. i guess it may be the fear that they'll be stuck with the products if they dont sell them that drives the price down. i've seen items relisted up to 6 times before they sold.

[CyberDruid]

I prefer to sell through Forums where I sorta kinda get to know the buyers.

[fitseries3]

I prefer to sell through Forums where I sorta kinda get to know the buyers.

yeah, me too but... i can't get people to buy stuff. everyone seems to know me and i know them. i understand people dont have money but damn, i should be able to sell something. a lot of what i have sold until now was stuff i used for less than 6 hours total. i try to help people out too. if someone wants something but doenst have the money, i try to trade with them. i've even thought of doing a giveaway on here(TPU) to get peoples attention. i can afford to giveaway a thing or two.

[Random Murderer]

this will be their downfall.

[newtekie1]

even if you pull your money out of your paypal account guy... they can still audit you and take money. Hench the negative balance. they expect you to pay it back to them before you can close the account. if you don't pay, you get bad credit and they'll summon you to appear in court. the only thing you can do is close your account now and use something else.

Well like I said, I don't have anything to worry about because I always cover my ass, and have pretty much since I started using paypal/ebay several years back.

Though, I think my lawyer would have some fun with that if they really did try to pull it. Before eBay can say I owe any money, they need to prove that I DIDN'T ship the items and in a court of law them simply saying "well he doesn't have proof he shipped them, so he didn't ship them" isn't enough.

And no, paypal can not affect your credit in any way, even if they say you own them the money. For them to effect your credit you first have to agree that the negative balance paypal is giving you is actually credit(they don't have a contract with you saying they are giving you credit, so it isn't credit) or they have to get a court ruling against you ruling that you owe the money, which won't happen because any case brought before a judge will just get thrown out because, again paypal can't prove you didn't ship the item. At most you would lose the money on the item that another user claimed didn't get shipped, but that is it.

[das müffin mann]

my step brother just got nailed for this, they froze all the tuition money my dad sent him ($4000)

[Pinchy]

Man...back a couple of years ago I sent a $400 6800 Ultra to someone in Mexico (ebay transaction). The buyer had a fake credit card and 2 months later I had a -$400 debt in my account, because the CC company issued a chargeback. I scanned and sent the postal reciepts and the forms I had to fill out to send it to an overseas location. It had the address I sent the package to and everything.

Yet, because I didnt have a "tracking number", they wouldn't accept it and still took my money. Mind you, this is after the buyer left me good feedback and said he recieved his item on the feedback system.

How fair is that?

[das müffin mann]

wow that sucks pinchy

[fitseries3]

i sent my 2 8800ultra's to france and 3 days after paying me the guy filed an unreceived item complaint. WTF? it takes longer than 3 days for something to get to france from texas! paypal took the $1200 from me for over a week. he got them and then they dismissed the claim and i got the money back. the tracking number helped getting thing rolling in the right direction though.

also, i shipped my e6700 to a guy in canada. i told him that it would take 7-15 days to get there. he filed a unreceived item complaint after 5 days and i had to wait until he got it to get the money back. same thing again... im glad i had the tracking number. it saved my ass.

just those 2 impatient people almost cost me $1400 in headache.

[Sasqui]

both ebay and paypal like to F___ people on their charges. it's been costing on average, $5-$7 to list an item, when it sells, they take $12-$20 more and then paypal takes $7-$20 depending on how much your sells for. greedy SOB's aren't they?
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=255374&mpage=2&key=񂣙

Amen to that... too bad about only game in town. Wish Craigslist was better formatted.