Overclocking.. the Practical and the Inpractical...??

[trog100]

should a line be drawn between the two.. ??

some inpractical examples.. spending a fortune on fancy cooling to gain an extra 100mhz..

removing heatsinks and heatsink lapping..

volt modding hardware..

trying very hard to get temps lower than they need to be..

some practical something for nothing examples..

useing simple software to overclock your grafix card.. no extra money needed..

simple cpu speed increases with perhaps a cheapo aftermarket air cooler or just the stock cooler..

i kinda fit in the something for nothing practical camp.. my cpu runs a nice 24/7 4 gig with just a cheap artic pro cooler sat on top.. i see no real point in heatsink lapping.. water cooling and all the exotic stuff for an extra unnoticeable 200mhz or so or to get my temps lower than they need to be..

tweaking for the sake of tweaking or simple practical tweaking for a cheap performance increase.. does a line need to be drawn between the two..???

where do the majority sit.. ??

trog

[MiST91]

yeah, like my C2D E6300 runs at 1.86GHz stock, a got it running at 3.0GHz, and my 800MHz Corsair XM2 DHX running at 1031MHz and it's SiSoftware Sandra stable.

And guess what aftrenarket cooler i got on my processor?
this: http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/A18FF.jpg

its just a stock Intel heatsink with a differant quiter fan it cost me £8 ($16ish) lol and my Processor runs at 40c idle and around 55c underload 24/7.

[sneekypeet]

I say it all depends on the level of overclocker.

I for one was in the "Winter Wars" this year, which is an OC competition for przes.

Water took my E6400(B2 stepping) from 3.4 stable to being able to run and test at 3950MHz.

Temps were a little high....started to load in games in the mid to high 60's C , so lapping the waterblock and the E6400 dropped temps almost a full 10*C.

I have also voltmodded my HD3870....its more of a fun hobby to me to push to extremes without killing my hardware.

[SirKeldon]

I'll speak for me now, i just joined the oc&cooling world just 2-3 months ago, without any experience at all. And well, maybe for me it has been more a knowledge pursuit than performance one.

I knew previously that every CPU, every mobo and every ram it's different, even if they're the same model, one could OC as hell and another simply don't ... but well, that's not the point ... i didn't improved my cooling just to get 100Mhz more, even if these are one of my rewards, i just did it for learning, for testing ... to play and get knowledge, always being safe and treating my machine with respect.

And specially talking of cooling, you know as you said thousands of times ... than the most important thing is the ambient temp ... and depending on the place of the earth the machine is gonna stay, even with the best-air flow system, your CPU could be a lil bit warm, and sometimes ... maybe you don't want to give up your clocking and you prefer to improve the cooling, even if that's expensive than a new CPU, i admit it ... but you can think that it's an inversion for the future too.

I'll admit also that maybe i'm kinda obsessed with the temps, anything higher than 55ºC on full load starts worrying myself (since it's on the max-temp range that my manufacturer recommends), that made me to lap my HSF and also go water, since i never did that things, it was a knowledge pursuit more than a clocking one, i just wanted to learn how to do it. Anyway, this thing it's pretty addictive and sometimes you don't notice at all the sick your mind can be at pointed times.

I won't improve my cooling again, i don't need any extreme oc and i'm not worried to get the best 3DMarks or SuperPi times, cause sometimes it's just that with 100mhz more, a benchmark increase but the user really doesn't notice nothing at all, i just wanted a more real-user fast and cooler (and of course stable 24/7) system to learn and get into this interesting world, and i think i'm finally joining. Anyway, i'm really happy to be now with water and i'll just go air again if my W/C gets fucked up, specially cause my room uses to be a lil bit warm all the year, now it is and we're not still on summer ... sometimes the sun on spain it's not that good :laugh:

So after all this explanation, i'll say i sit on the experimental-oc'er that it's not affraid to test some "simple" and not too risky things (and also not much expensive) .. such lapping a HSF, installing a simple water cooling or even the thing you done, changing the stock HSF, "safe" things that shouldn't break your hardware if you're careful. And if you go ahead for example with a Phase, i think it's just in where direction you point the things, to break benchmarks ... or to improve the real-user performance, i won't do it since i don't need it, but i respect the people that has hobbies (even if they're really expensive :laugh:)

:toast:

[sneekypeet]

Hey Trog....make a poll and see where the majority of Oc'ers sit from TPU.

* OC's on stock parts

* OC's on basic aftermarket

* OC's on whatever gets the best temps(money is no object)

* Feel the need to move to the south pole to keep ambients at a minimum for maximum performance!

You get the idea...I say get one up and see....very interesting me thinks!!!!!

[MiST91]

I think overclocking is Just like tuning a car.

If i buy a Nissan Skyline R34 it will be very fast, but then if i decide to upgrade the turbo and fit a new intercooler it will go even faster, but i can still only go 70mph (55mph in the US :laugh:) on the roads.

Its the same with overclocking and cooling, i dont need to have my E6600 at 3.0GHz most of the time, but i still do.

[DrPepper]

I think nost people who began OC'ing did it to prolong the life of their hardware (I mean in games not literally) and lengthan the time until they purchase a new piece of equiptment. In the end I like normal air cooling the most, extreme solutions such as liquid nitrogen are a bit over the top since the hardware breaks when it is heated back to room temperature. Oh and SirKeldon are still on that Beta bios and is it stable now.

[Kursah]

Well trog, that's an interesting question, or series of them in reality, but look at it like cars. There are guys that just buy sports cars, there are guys that buy cars, cut them apart, replace all sorts of components, some re-build/re-finish parts,improve cooling, exhaust, and shoot for every millisecond they can get in a drag race, or that extra tenth of a G at the slalom.

I don't really think there's a too far, it just depends on how far YOU want to go, and by that I mean everyone that reads this. PC's are a great hobby, and it can be quite fun to modify and tune and actually see results from it, hear results from it, and show it off. Just too bad PC's can't drag race hehe!

It may not be practical for yours or my realistic uses, or it may the perfect rig...but practiciality can only be viewed as a "to-each-their-own" sort of view, because everyone's view on practicality and performance is going to be different.

:toast:

[AsRock]

GPU overclock has proved to me in the past as the best performance gain over any other. Other wise overclocking any thing else has been pointless for me.


Mainly impractical for my needs as benchmarks mean absolutely nothing to me. All though i do like my comp look good.

[imperialreign]

I OC cause I can - <shrugs> hell, I've been doing it for years, and with modern setups it's a TON easier than the golden days of motherboard jumpers and switches . . .

but, I tend to shoot for some level of practicality; and that tends to revolve around two things for me: 1. the average running temps of the component, 2. the noticeable performance of the component.

If I start hitting a point where I don't really see any actual, justifiable performance increase, or if performance starts decreasing, that's too far for my tastes.

I also like my components to run as cool as I can possibly have them per my cooling solutions - our summer here is extremelly humid and hot. Doesn't say much when you have a HVAC system, but it doesn't take much for things to start over heating during the summer, though.


I also like to find the max I can take a component, just for shits and giggles. Once I know the farthest I can clock something based on my setup, I usually bring everything back down to something I'm happy with for a 24/7 clock - a setting that runs decent for my tastes, and is within temps that I find acceptable.

[Kei]

Trog, excellent thread man and something that definately needed to be said.

As far as myself, I don't really consider myself an 'overclocker' if you will because I'm not really the type of person to buy something just to get it to the speed of something else. If I wanted something of X speed in the beginning then I'd just buy what I wanted because it's only money.

That statement is kinda 'ironic' (can't think of a better word for now) because I do enjoy tweaking a system but I consider that far different from overclocking. When I tune a machine I do them much like my cars and business. I'm not looking for some gross over power just because I can. I just like to make things more efficient and to a certain level that I desire. That level is usually far less than some of the people on this board and many others. Most people only do it because it seems like it's better to have the biggest number you can possibly get. I'd say that 80% of those people will NEVER use that speed in the first place and don't even recognize the speed anyway.

When I tune a system I do it much like a suspension on a car (my passion)...I don't want the single best car on the track nor the most comfortable car on the road. I want the funnest, most rewarding, and useful all around vehicle. Despite the fact that I've had to opportunity to drive many mega mega mega buck cars (in the 6-7 figures mega) I'm still not taken by them. I prefer a car with 180-280hp weighing in at around 2500-2800 lbs over them anyday regardless of speed.

I just want something that is a joy to use. I'm probably the only person around here that actually bought a Phenom just because I wanted a bit better multitasking and only ever wanted an extra 3-400Mhz out of it on as close to stock voltage as possible. I only ever wanted it to be at around the same extra clock/speed as the 4800+ it replaced (2.5 up to 2.975 stable on low volts).

When I get the B3 Phenom I'll do the samething, just a moderate clock on as close to stock voltage as possible (my Phenom now is at 1.25v which is so close to stock is crazy). That's all I need, I don't really need max speed and I'm not doing crazy or pointless things to get it.

Again, excellent topic and I hope it gets some people truly thinking about why they do what they do so they're not lying to themselves any longer about what they need/do.

K

Btw, I got the clock I wanted at 2.55Ghz 2.04Ghz Northbridge 2.04Ghz (2x2Ghz) though it's been up much higher stable this is all I need out of it.

[Mussels]

should a line be drawn between the two.. ??

some inpractical examples.. spending a fortune on fancy cooling to gain an extra 100mhz..

removing heatsinks and heatsink lapping..

volt modding hardware..

trying very hard to get temps lower than they need to be..

some practical something for nothing examples..

useing simple software to overclock your grafix card.. no extra money needed..

simple cpu speed increases with perhaps a cheapo aftermarket air cooler or just the stock cooler..

i kinda fit in the something for nothing practical camp.. my cpu runs a nice 24/7 4 gig with just a cheap artic pro cooler sat on top.. i see no real point in heatsink lapping.. water cooling and all the exotic stuff for an extra unnoticeable 200mhz or so or to get my temps lower than they need to be..

tweaking for the sake of tweaking or simple practical tweaking for a cheap performance increase.. does a line need to be drawn between the two..???

where do the majority sit.. ??

trog

well it all depends, there are two ways of looking at it.

Yeah, i have a Q6600 and a huge ass heatsink worth a lot of money - why lap it? Well, how about i paid a lot of money for it, and the damn things were both convex so they worked like crap. Wasnt going to let that money go to waste, so i risked it on lapping - if i succeded, i SAVED money on buying new cooling.

It all depends on your goal. Set a goal before you go and do anything.

Got an E2160 and want to thrash the crap out of it to learn to OC? why not lap it, its cheap. you can afford to fail.

software OC video cards? yeah, simple. Until you have to wait 2 months for rivatuner to catch up to the drivers, in which case a bios mod is actually simpler and easier.

you talk about a bigger cooler for 'just' 200Mhz more. what about the people who want it quieter, or have a goal in benchmarking?

It comes down to what you want to get done: set a goal, and put everything towards that.

[imperialreign]

I have to say, though - even with the number of users here who OC - we don't have any of the "extreme 1337" OCers that I know of - y'know, the ones aiming for breaking records. Kinda strange . . .

I do understand the point of purchasing a lower component and OCing to a more powerful components level - especially considering the price differences between Intel CPUs, for example. $250 for a Q6600, $540 for a Q6700 - and the only real difference between the two is the CPU multiplier. x9 for the 6600, x10 for the 6700.

but, we all have our own tastes - some do it cause they can and it's a hobby, some to rival more powerful hardware, some for the benchmarks and the e-peen scale - to each his own, eh?

[Mussels]

yeah my goal was to OC enough to get 60+ FPS in every game i play. If i cannot OC high enough to maintain that, i will look at new hardware in order to do so.

$400 (when i bought it) + $150 in cooling + $10 of sandpaper + 30 minutes lapping gets me a 3.6Ghz quad core from intel with my overclock.
A Q6700 is still $670 TODAY in australia, at 2.66Ghz.

This may seem 'impractical' to some, but to me it saved me a lot of money and is faster than anything i can buy retail.

[farlex85]

I'm still pretty new at this whole thing, but really, performance wise, I don't notice much difference from my core 2 clocked at 3.6 than its stock 2.6. But I won't run it stock. Its fun oc, but I don't have the money to do any serious ocing, and i probably wouldn't do watercooling and the like unless I deemed it necessary, or I had a lot of time on my hands. At times oc can save you a lot of money, but usually its just to get the most out of your parts, and then to enjoy your hobby.

It eventually comes down to the toys justify the means. Its usually overkill, but if you can, then why not.....

[boshuter]

I think nost people who began OC'ing did it to prolong the life of their hardware (I mean in games not literally) and lengthan the time until they purchase a new piece of equiptment. In the end I like normal air cooling the most, extreme solutions such as liquid nitrogen are a bit over the top since the hardware breaks when it is heated back to room temperature. Oh and SirKeldon are still on that Beta bios and is it stable now.

Hardware oc'd with ln2 doesn't "break" when it's heated back to room temp :laugh:

First you need to figure out what an "ocer's is? Everyone who bumps their fsb nowdays thinks they are oc'ing.

[Tatty_One]

should a line be drawn between the two.. ??

some inpractical examples.. spending a fortune on fancy cooling to gain an extra 100mhz..

removing heatsinks and heatsink lapping..

volt modding hardware..

trying very hard to get temps lower than they need to be..

some practical something for nothing examples..

useing simple software to overclock your grafix card.. no extra money needed..

simple cpu speed increases with perhaps a cheapo aftermarket air cooler or just the stock cooler..

i kinda fit in the something for nothing practical camp.. my cpu runs a nice 24/7 4 gig with just a cheap artic pro cooler sat on top.. i see no real point in heatsink lapping.. water cooling and all the exotic stuff for an extra unnoticeable 200mhz or so or to get my temps lower than they need to be..

tweaking for the sake of tweaking or simple practical tweaking for a cheap performance increase.. does a line need to be drawn between the two..???

where do the majority sit.. ??

trog


Ahhhh but when it's someones hobby then logic often kinda disappears out the window. For example, I occasionally fish, it's a hobby, before I go fishing I may strip a reel down and oil it again, it does not need it, it may well not work any better for it......but I still do it........why? Cause I enjoy it! :pimp:

[InnocentCriminal]

Why? (http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/cooling/39)

Explains why I'm going to be lapping my waterblock. It's going to be fun!

[theonetruewill]

Personally I used to overclock because I could not afford very expensive chips and wanted as fast a computer as I could get for my money. However, times have changed and now I look on it as a hobby. I genuinely enjoy tinkering around with my PC now. For example: I used to push my old 4600 X2 to the highest I could possibly get it, but then I started to back down a wee bit to lower temps significantly with severe voltage drops, ie. 2.79 @ 1.424v is better than 2.82 @ 1.5v. I have done the same with my recent E2140- taking it to 3.4 and beaing able to boot (albeit extremely unstably) at 3.6, but for everyday use keeping it at 3.3 because the voltage requirement drop is huge. I like tweaking for benchmarks but I no longer like to push my hardware to the absolute limits during regular use- I just will not notice the difference of 100MHz except in benches. However, I do and will notice the difference between 1.6GHz and 3.3GHz. I have become more practical as I have got on with my hardware- but every so often I like to push it for a hell of a lot of fun. I think that is the case with most of us here: we are enthusiasts- I doubt even 25% of us keep our equipment at the absolute maximum speed required possible- and we are a hardcore niche. That is instead left to the extremists who spend huge amounts on their hardware because they appreciate every little bit. People like DaMulta and Mandelore I suspect. I can't and won't warrant spending that amount but I have an enormous amoun of respect for those people. In the end I just overclock to get my noticeable speed boost and best for my money. Hence why I have an E2140 and an AC Freezer 7 pro. I like good value kit that I can play with.

[Nitro-Max]

Ive found running at 3.2ghz rather than 3.6ghz has little or no impact on the games i play and ive also been able to push memory preformance more because im not putting as much stress on the fsb also temps are awsome 29c idle 35c load.

getting stable at 3.6ghz is easy ive managed this no problems for a while and still with great temps 55c max but when applying some extra memory tweaking in the bios of my rampage it required more NB voltage which drove up cpu temps also still within safe limits {JUST} but fan noise bug'ed me.

and like trog said for the extra what ever mhz is it worth shelling out for water cooling?

[InnocentCriminal]

Personally I used to overclock because I could not afford very expensive chips and wanted as fast a computer as I could get for my money. However, times have changed and now I look on it as a hobby.

That's how it started for moi. I'm not an excessive when it comes to OC'ing, but I do like to tinker around finding the best compromise of performance and limits of my hardware. Being a SFF fanatic, OC'ing has never really been on the top of my priorities, but it is however, a decent way of getting something for free. Which can never be sniffed at.

[cdawall]

i honestly don't see reasons to spend a lot on an air cooler but water and such are an ok investment seeing how they can be used from rig to rig.

impractical is fun like pushing 2v thru a cpu just to see what you can do with it (i got stuck @ 2.59ghz on my 3000+ even @ 2.2v :shadedshu)

another impractical would be building a phase change but that doesn't mean i wouldn't in fact i think i found a free compressor so i might have a custom one soon :D

[GSG-9]

I have a simple copper heat pipe cooler. For airflow I have a 140mm fan, and 2 60s.

[DrPepper]

Hardware oc'd with ln2 doesn't "break" when it's heated back to room temp :laugh:

First you need to figure out what an "ocer's is? Everyone who bumps their fsb nowdays thinks they are oc'ing.

I'm not going to bother quoting wikipedia about "ln2" but the rapid expansion from the cpu heating back to room temp might break the die or just from the stress of the high speeds. Either way prolonged liquid nitrogen is expensive £1 a litre and that litre might evaporate within 20 minute :confused: not to sure and technically if you raise the fsb that is overclocking because you are changing the speed for which the component was not designed for. :) :rockout:

[GSG-9]

not to sure and technically if you raise the fsb that is overclocking because you are changing the speed for which the component was not designed for. :) :rockout:

Agreed and understood but thats not overclocking with style.:cool:

[trog100]

the reason i started this thread is because i wonder if people who simply want to tweak their hardware to get the (practical) best out of it.. i dont like the term overclocking.. to me that implies danger and breaking hardware and such.. all the things that stop joe average from doing it..

in other words is joe average being put off doing something he should (sensibly) be doing (as the norm) by the people who simply tweak the hell out of everything just for the fun of it.. danger and broken hardware being of no relevance..

should we seperate the two groups a bit better..

lets take joe average.. he can say buy a cpu that costs 150 money tokens or he can buy what he thinks is a better cpu that costs 300 money tokens.. he thinks he is getting something better for his extra money tokens..

we know he isnt.. to me joe is loseing out.. performance must mean something to joe else why part with more money tokens than he has to.. my assumption is joe has other things to do with his money tokens than give em to hardware makers for nothing..

should we separate the needs of joe from the push the limits for fun people.. ???

lets forget max performance for this example.. lets just think how to save joe some money.. take a couple of amd or intel chips.. intel being more relevant because the money difference is bigger.. intel seem to move in fours.. take the new 45nm chips.. very good value for the slowest.. reasonable value for the next slowest (the usually the tweakers favourite) not good value for the next one up and silly money for the highest..

we all know that with a few tweaks and a little knowledge the slowest can be made to perform the same as the out of the box silly money chip.. does joe average know this.. if he does why does he waste his money tokens buying something he dosnt have to.. ??

or looked at another way how can intel get away with charging three or four times the money for what in essence is the same product.. should joe average be made more aware of whats happening.. ??

even the mildest of safe tweaks can save joe oodles of money tokens.. does joe know this i wonder..

or is it just about "real" numbers even for joe.. the numbers on the box.. he he he

trog

[GSG-9]

For saving money I would think underclocking and undervolting would be mroe effective. If they need the extra performance and cant afford fast chips (Me...) then overclocking comes in.

[sneekypeet]

I say joe hears what is possible by the extremists of OC'ing and looks for those numbers on a CPU or ram and pays for it not knowing the above mentioned info.

Case and point, my Father-in-law uses computers and is really knowledgable on the subject. He is a fan of the OEM support. " If you build your own there is no support" is what he likes to say. Then we sit and shoot the shit and he is amazed at what can be done for free, as he used to run a multi-million dollar company. His eye is alway been on more bangs for less "money tokens".

He has since gone to me building and tweaking his rigs to safe easy clocks on stock volts, as that performance bump is enough for him. Had he not known me he would be still bying hugely overpriced OEM's with crap for support anyhow.

[asb2106]

I say it all depends on the level of overclocker.

I for one was in the "Winter Wars" this year, which is an OC competition for przes.

Water took my E6400(B2 stepping) from 3.4 stable to being able to run and test at 3950MHz.

Temps were a little high....started to load in games in the mid to high 60's C , so lapping the waterblock and the E6400 dropped temps almost a full 10*C.

I have also voltmodded my HD3870....its more of a fun hobby to me to push to extremes without killing my hardware.

+1, to me its all about the fun behind it. TBH i could get by on a 2 ghz dual core and a single 3870 - for all my games and computer needs.

To me its fun to push my products far, and to have the extra cooling that the water gives me! I guess its more for the hobby than anything else! I see myself spending more and more on my computer, alot of people look at this as a waste, "you dont need that much computer", ect..... But the money that I spend there, I might have spent on something else, maybe bowling on sundays, or a set of rims for my car, or other "inpractical" things that I would have "wasted" my money on!

I enjoy the trill of getting that extra few frames from a game, or by lowering the time it takes to rip a DVD, even if its only a minute or so.

For me it all started with the pentium D. It was hot and it was not fast, but i got my first OCalbe board and started going crazy! I got my D to 4.8 Ghz and I got it to load windows! The CPU throtled like crazy after 10 minutes of load, but at that point I was ready to throw away that proc anyways.

I guess its just fun, so really, no matter how inpractical it may be, that doesnt mean its not fun!

[asb2106]

the reason i started this thread is because i wonder if people who simply want to tweak their hardware to get the (practical) best out of it.. i dont like the term overclocking.. to me that implies danger and breaking hardware and such.. all the things that stop joe average from doing it..

in other words is joe average being put off doing something he should (sensibly) be doing (as the norm) by the people who simply tweak the hell out of everything just for the fun of it.. danger and broken hardware being of no relevance..

should we seperate the two groups a bit better..

lets take joe average.. he can say buy a cpu that costs 150 money tokens or he can buy what he thinks is a better cpu that costs 300 money tokens.. he thinks he is getting something better for his extra money tokens..

we know he isnt.. to me joe is loseing out.. performance must mean something to joe else why part with more money tokens than he has to.. my assumption is joe has other things to do with his money tokens than give em to hardware makers for nothing..

should we separate the needs of joe from the push the limits for fun people.. ???

lets forget max performance for this example.. lets just think how to save joe some money.. take a couple of amd or intel chips.. intel being more relevant because the money difference is bigger.. intel seem to move in fours.. take the new 45nm chips.. very good value for the slowest.. reasonable value for the next slowest (the usually the tweakers favourite) not good value for the next one up and silly money for the highest..

we all know that with a few tweaks and a little knowledge the slowest can be made to perform the same as the out of the box silly money chip.. does joe average know this.. if he does why does he waste his money tokens buying something he dosnt have to.. ??

or looked at another way how can intel get away with charging three or four times the money for what in essence is the same product.. should joe average be made more aware of whats happening.. ??

even the mildest of safe tweaks can save joe oodles of money tokens.. does joe know this i wonder..

or is it just about "real" numbers even for joe.. the numbers on the box.. he he he

trog

I think its safe to say that this is a great way to put it.

I think average joe looks at a 1500 token computer and says "oh this one must be better than the 800 token computer"

When really he could take the 800 token computer and bump up the clocks a bit, and perform on the same level. Granted there is alot of other factors(HD space, Optical drives, blah blah) but in terms of performance, yes, I feel Joe should know this. But he doesnt, and that is keeps intel able to charge almost 3 times the price for a proc that could really perform the exact same.

I think we "nerds"(sorry if that offends u) are in a very small class. There are alot of "computer gurus" out there, but if you have a serious talk to some of them, they dont have the slightest clue about adjusting voltages, or tweaking the registry, or bumping the FSB. To the average computer builder those terms are almost meaning less.

Locally I have about 3 "friends" that are also in the business, it is not a personal friendship but I get alot of referals from them, as some stuff may be over their heads(gaming PCs, water cooling, ect). These guys know computers well, they know how to use one, and they know how to put one together.

I mention that because if you think about it, anyone can put together parts to make a computer. If you can put together the lawn furniture you got from the hardware store, Im pretty sure you can handle a computer. If you take a few days and pay attention to what you are doing, you can master windows in no time. Some people just are scared of breaking it, or they are just adiment not to learn.

That is the problem with the average joe & his tokens.
I have much more i can say, but i have to take a break, got to get some work done!

[Nitro-Max]

does joe have a 2nd name?

[Nitro-Max]

Trog i have a q6600 which i can run at 3.6ghz will buying a e8400 and running it at 4ghz have much of an impact on gaming??

or would a 2nd card work out better.

[DonInKansas]

Just too bad PC's can't drag race hehe!



I thought that's what SuperPi was for.:laugh:

[erocker]

I generally begin being practical. Then, I get bored and the impracticalities start to emerge. I still like to play it safe though, if any volt modding is done, I make sure I have something to replace it ready to go.

[GSG-9]

does joe have a 2nd name?

Edward.

[exodusprime1337]

to be fair trogg. i think you statements is to broad and ultimately undermines the true goal of overclocking. Overclocking is like building a really fast car, and when i put together some of my latest hot rods i went all the way down to the brand of the oil and what sparkplugs, to who made the bolts that secured the head's to the block. I'm the same way with my computer, i got all the way down to who makes the paint i use on the inside of the case. I like having a decent computer and although i'm not rich, i do have enough spare funds to at lease make myself a decent running pc. and yes the ultra120xtreme, was def worth the extra 50 bucks and 100Mhz.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

to be fair trogg. i think you statements is to broad and ultimately undermines the true goal of overclocking. Overclocking is like building a really fast car, and when i put together some of my latest hot rods i went all the way down to the brand of the oil and what sparkplugs, to who made the bolts that secured the head's to the block. I'm the same way with my computer, i got all the way down to who makes the paint i use on the inside of the case. I like having a decent computer and although i'm not rich, i do have enough spare funds to at lease make myself a decent running pc. and yes the ultra120xtreme, was def worth the extra 50 bucks and 100Mhz.

100 mhz != 50 buks

[DrPepper]

Agreed and understood but thats not overclocking with style.:cool:

What ya mean with style :p with cool glasses and a haircut style or .... :laugh:

[Kei]

First you need to figure out what an "ocer's is? Everyone who bumps their fsb nowdays thinks they are oc'ing.

That's another thing I forgot to mention it seems as though sadly everyone in the world is apparently an 'overclocker'. I hate when things get like this, the same thing happened in the world of cars and now we all of a sudden see that everyone is a 'tuner' (i hate that f*ckin word) all of a sudden, cars are labeled 'tuner', 'muscle', or 'exotic' just so people can put a label on something to make it cooler. :banghead: No one seems to buy things to enjoy them anymore it's always I have to buy it and make it do much better than 'X' or 'Y' despite the fact that you'll never use nor notice the difference. Meh, maybe I'm just getting bitter in my old age or something :shadedshu

K

[trog100]

everyones a "tuner".. yes.. but reconnecting the two spark plug leads the manufacturer has deliberately left off so as he can charge more for one that comes with all the leads connected aint exactly "tuning" from where i stand..

bumping an fsb from 1333 to 1600 aint either.. even joe "edward" average could do that.. cpu at 9 x 333 = 3 gig.. cpu at 9 x 400 = 3.6 gig.. with my e8400 chip thats all it takes for a cpu intel would charge three times as many tokens for..

a modest gain (by our standards) can be had simply by increasing the fsb before intel do it officially and want some more tokens for doing it.. he he

it seems everything we now buy hardware wise is being sold to us way under clocked relative to its real abilities.. we aint tuning it.. we are just pressing a few buttons to make it go as fast as perhaps it should be going in the first place..

when overclocking first started it was real.. now its just getting rid of the built in cripples.. odd really when u think about it.. even the way over priced intel flagship chip comes underclocked by 40%.. it never used to be this way..

trog

[Kei]

I agree with you, what is generally seen as overclocking today isn't really what it was in the old days when it took skill. There are still some processors that actually take work and skill to achieve the best from them, but most people don't buy those because they want cheap and easy.

I also agree that most everything seems to be underclocked/powered from the manufacturer these days for a few reasons. It's good for them because the component isn't at it's limit so it'll theoretically last longer and they're name stays on the good side of things with the general public and main market. The big reason or at least I'm sure it was originally is that it's a lot easier to make quick money when you need it because you can just turn up the wick a little and it's a 'new' product. It's the same as not putting all your eggs into one basket, if something bad happens you can still make things work. If one company (AMD) was to come out with something you weren't expecting and it's much "faster" than your product it's easy to just turn up the FSB show everybody your stuff is fast (Intel) and the general market is none the wiser. That won't work on people like us so to speak due to the fact that we pay attention to that sort of thing. Either way it's a genius marketing/insurance move if you should ever come into a situation like that. It also kills another bird with that same stone by allowing people like us to turn things up speed wise which is just marketing for them because everyone knows that "computer guy" in the neighborhood so it's good to have them in your back pocket. Smart...very smart

K

[asb2106]

everyones a "tuner".. yes.. but reconnecting the two spark plug leads the manufacturer has deliberately left off so as he can charge more for one that comes with all the leads connected aint exactly "tuning" from where i stand..

bumping an fsb from 1333 to 1600 aint either.. even joe "edward" average could do that.. cpu at 9 x 333 = 3 gig.. cpu at 9 x 400 = 3.6 gig.. with my e8400 chip thats all it takes for a cpu intel would charge three times as many tokens for..

a modest gain (by our standards) can be had simply by increasing the fsb before intel do it officially and want some more tokens for doing it.. he he

it seems everything we now buy hardware wise is being sold to us way under clocked relative to its real abilities.. we aint tuning it.. we are just pressing a few buttons to make it go as fast as perhaps it should be going in the first place..

when overclocking first started it was real.. now its just getting rid of the built in cripples.. odd really when u think about it.. even the way over priced intel flagship chip comes underclocked by 40%.. it never used to be this way..

trog

I dont believe that completely, yes they do underclock there parts, but they do it for a reason, TEMPS & LONGEVITY

Think about it, a proc that runs relativly cool and under powered(compared to what it can handle) is just gonna lengthen the life of the product and for >90% of computer users, that is the main concern. People want to get the most bang for their buck, and a huge part of that is the life span.

The temps play a huge role too,

yes intel could beef up their cooling devices and run the procs at 3 GHz or beyond, but that would require cases to have good - great air flow and require more advanced and expensive cooling.

Its a toss up with what people want, and I think we should be happy about it. Intel played their cards right, they want to target the mainstream user, not the "tuner" hehe, for those people they sell the EE procs. Or they give us the ability to OC the hell out of our FSB's.

Honestly we should be happy the way it is. It keeps the average user happy, and the advanced user even happier.

Look at the q6600, it can be bought brand new for 235 now. It can reach a easy 3.6 ghz on a decent motherboard with decent cooling, sometimes even stock. That should keep us happy. And to the average user, a 2.4 ghz quad is more than enough horsepower to run anything!

Its a win/win for us and Intel

[asb2106]

I agree with you, what is generally seen as overclocking today isn't really what it was in the old days when it took skill. There are still some processors that actually take work and skill to achieve the best from them, but most people don't buy those because they want cheap and easy.

I also agree that most everything seems to be underclocked/powered from the manufacturer these days for a few reasons. It's good for them because the component isn't at it's limit so it'll theoretically last longer and they're name stays on the good side of things with the general public and main market. The big reason or at least I'm sure it was originally is that it's a lot easier to make quick money when you need it because you can just turn up the wick a little and it's a 'new' product. It's the same as not putting all your eggs into one basket, if something bad happens you can still make things work. If one company (AMD) was to come out with something you weren't expecting and it's much "faster" than your product it's easy to just turn up the FSB show everybody your stuff is fast (Intel) and the general market is none the wiser. That won't work on people like us so to speak due to the fact that we pay attention to that sort of thing. Either way it's a genius marketing/insurance move if you should ever come into a situation like that. It also kills another bird with that same stone by allowing people like us to turn things up speed wise which is just marketing for them because everyone knows that "computer guy" in the neighborhood so it's good to have them in your back pocket. Smart...very smart

K

Intel wont just increase the FSB though, that would be a much bigger ordeal, look at each time they do introduce a new level of FSB. It takes on a alot more that just "bumping it up" They have to make sure that it is gonna work with new memory, and things like that. Thats why they are pushing DDR3, because it will handle the 800mhz pretty easily and allow for more OCIng without needing extreme volts and producing mad heat

They cant just run the FSB at 1600 and expect the memory of the basic computer user to run >800mhz. Cheap ram does not do that easily.

Ocing still does take skill, yes any idiot can OC a q6600 to 3.2, but if you know what your doing and you want more, you can. Back in my early days of celeron Ocing and OCing my thunderbird, it was tough, it took extensive manipulation and youd be happy to get a 25-35% OC. Its not like that now. Now we strive for 50% or higher. And whats wrong with that. AGAIN, it just benifits us!

[imperialreign]

as to the terms "overclocker" and "overclocking" - it's just a part of speech to me now. Back in the day when you had to manually set the DIPs and jumpers on a motherboard, you put a lot of faith in yourself when you hit that power switch to turn the system on. A severelly wrong setting could spell immediate failure of either the CPU or motherboard. It took a small amount of skill, and good general knowledge of how those settings affected the SYS as a whole. Nowadays, we no longer have manual hardware configuration, it's all done within the SYS BIOS. It's a lot easier, and safer too as manufacturing techniques and hardware quality have improved; but, the new ease of "tweaking" (as would seem appropriate today; whereas "OCing" by todays standards for some reason tends to involve hardware mods :wtf:) has certainly opened the door to many new people, regardless of their skill level; but, IMO, anyone that's interested in OCing a component should take the time to at minimal gain an understanding of all your BIOS options, and what they do.

But, the term "overclocking" technically still applies, as setting a components speed above the default settings is the literal definition of overclocking. But, alot of us from the golden age generally have a goal in mind - is it a challenge of ourselves to find the peak performance of the component? Do we want to find the fastest speed the component can handle in our rig? Are we just looking for a little extra oomph out of it?


But, then it's not just a matter of how the components are clocked, but how it affects the system as a whole, too. Sure extreme cooling will allow you to yield a higher OC - but how many of us view cooling as a form of tweaking in itself? Sure, the cooler a component runs, the longer it will live - but the cooler it runs, the faster it can (based on the individual component) perform at its current settings - especially over longer periods of load.

[EiAh]

I generally OC with stock/above stock parts.

I don't bother spending $50 on a CPU cooler.

[Mussels]

if you take something 1Mhz over the speed you bought it at, you overclocked it. hence the term OVER CLOCK (raising over the original clock speed)

There are simply various levels of overclockers and varying levels of skill involved.

[EiAh]

Just that 1MHz can make the biggest temperature difference. (Kidding)

[imperialreign]

Just that 1MHz can make the biggest temperature difference. (Kidding)

back in the day, depending on your cooler - it did

[Darknova]

Well, when I build my rig, I build it with a specific goal in regards to overclocking.

Take my last Intel set up (E4400), my goal for that was 3Ghz, because having come from 939 AMD, 3Ghz was not heard of much with the X2s. I made it to 3Ghz easily, but then I started pushing for more, because, honestly, I get BORED. I get bored of the same hardware, I get bored of it running at the same speed all the time, I get bored of seeing the same benchmark scores and FPS.

My current goal is 4Ghz, unfortunately my PSU doesn't deliver enough power to the motherboard so I need a new one.

[cdawall]

Well, when I build my rig, I build it with a specific goal in regards to overclocking.

Take my last Intel set up (E4400), my goal for that was 3Ghz, because having come from 939 AMD, 3Ghz was not heard of much with the X2s. I made it to 3Ghz easily, but then I started pushing for more, because, honestly, I get BORED. I get bored of the same hardware, I get bored of it running at the same speed all the time, I get bored of seeing the same benchmark scores and FPS.

My current goal is 4Ghz, unfortunately my PSU doesn't deliver enough power to the motherboard so I need a new one.

snag one of these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101029

they are great and use topower as an OEM so the same that make seasonic, ocz, mushkin, scythe, tagen so you can count that its going to work just fine :p

[DaMulta]

Put me down in the Inpractical section trog:)

[cdawall]

Put me down in the Inpractical section trog:)

now i wouldn't put you there maybe a bit extravagant but no phasechange so not impractical yet

[sneekypeet]

now i wouldn't put you there maybe a bit extravagant but no phasechange so not impractical yet

oh he has PHASE already!!!!!

[cdawall]

oh he has PHASE already!!!!!

it says phase/water so what a H2O loop with a cooler in it? that doesn't count...

[DaMulta]

Chipsets, and videocards need to be cooled to you know.


Chipset is going to be done tonight sometime.

[Darknova]

I'm in the UK, can't get that.

And I've already decided on my PSU, it's going to be a Tagan modular 600 or 700W PSU, just need to get paid first :D

[sneekypeet]

he bought the Mach Phase unit.

[OzzmanFloyd120]

When I overclock I kinda do it for status in a way, because I have this friend who works for the government on salary. He blows all his extra cash on the latest and greatest. I, on the other hand work at Subway, so I like to rub it in his face when I can get my CPU to 2.85 and my PC3200 up to a 7GHZ bandwidth for little over $200 then push my 7900GS a little and come within no noticeable difference to his 8800ultra. It's gratifying because he doesn't know how to overclock and spends ridiculous amounts of money on his system.
In the other hand though when I see people pushing quad cores to ridiculous limits I think it's kinda stupid. When you have 8mb of cache and four 1.8ghz cores you don't really need it.

[Mussels]

though when I see people pushing quad cores to ridiculous limits I think it's kinda stupid. When you have 8mb of cache and four 1.8ghz cores you don't really need it.

four 1.8Ghz cores is the same speed as one 1.8Ghz core if the app only supports single threading...

[asb2106]

When I overclock I kinda do it for status in a way, because I have this friend who works for the government on salary. He blows all his extra cash on the latest and greatest. I, on the other hand work at Subway, so I like to rub it in his face when I can get my CPU to 2.85 and my PC3200 up to a 7GHZ bandwidth for little over $200 then push my 7900GS a little and come within no noticeable difference to his 8800ultra. It's gratifying because he doesn't know how to overclock and spends ridiculous amounts of money on his system.
In the other hand though when I see people pushing quad cores to ridiculous limits I think it's kinda stupid. When you have 8mb of cache and four 1.8ghz cores you don't really need it.

i doubt a 7900gs can even see the light given off by a 8800ultra, but ill move on....

pushing a quad as high as possible is just as important as you pushing your DDR memory. I want my q6600 to outperform a brand new $1400 proc. It fits your scenario perfectly.

four 1.8Ghz cores is the same speed as one 1.8Ghz core if the app only supports single threading...
+1

[OzzmanFloyd120]

i doubt a 7900gs can even see the light given off by a 8800ultra, but ill move on....

I agree with you completely, but all he ever plays is BF2, 2142 and COD4. When I push my core speed to 500mhz you can't tell the difference in any of those games, well maybe COD4 when it gets really intense, but he doesn't realize the difference.
I guess I worded it bad to get my point across.

[asb2106]

I agree with you completely, but all he ever plays is BF2, 2142 and COD4. When I push my core speed to 500mhz you can't tell the difference in any of those games, well maybe COD4 when it gets really intense, but he doesn't realize the difference.
I guess I worded it bad to get my point across.

OH I C

Sorry :toast:

[OzzmanFloyd120]

S'alight

[Mussels]

i get your point too.

When i started OCing it was my goal to make my cheap system faster than my brothers expensive system - once i started getting better hardware i just didnt slow down, and now i buy 'mid-range' hardware (compare a GTX to a GX2 or ultra in price, same with Q6600 vs the QX line) and make it perform faster than those massively more costly ones.

Then again, i often downclock my rig to 3.2Ghz or even stock speeds if all i'm doing is playing older games - why waste the power and lifespan of teh system.

[GSG-9]

i get your point too.

When i started OCing it was my goal to make my cheap system faster than my brothers expensive system - once i started getting better hardware i just didnt slow down, and now i buy 'mid-range' hardware (compare a GTX to a GX2 or ultra in price)

Thats the lower end of High end, not midrange :p
Those cards are the big boys :D

[Mussels]

Thats the lower end of High end, not midrange :p
Those cards are the big boys :D

my other car is a GT, which is a lot cheaper :P

that GTX has lasted me well over a year... kinda adds up in savings compared to people who upgrade every 6 months :)

[GSG-9]

my other card is a GT, which is a lot cheaper :P

that GTX has lasted me well over a year... kinda adds up in savings compared to people who upgrade every 6 months :)

Indeed :)
I should have not upgraded to a 2900Pro (had a 7800GT), I was trying to wait for the 98xx series, but I could not wait. :o

[trog100]

Well, when I build my rig, I build it with a specific goal in regards to overclocking.

Take my last Intel set up (E4400), my goal for that was 3Ghz, because having come from 939 AMD, 3Ghz was not heard of much with the X2s. I made it to 3Ghz easily, but then I started pushing for more, because, honestly, I get BORED. I get bored of the same hardware, I get bored of it running at the same speed all the time, I get bored of seeing the same benchmark scores and FPS.

My current goal is 4Ghz, unfortunately my PSU doesn't deliver enough power to the motherboard so I need a new one.

i have just helped set up a cube micro atx case e6750 with one 3870 card on a hyper 530 psu.. it runs 24/7 set at 3.6 gig.. 3.6 was the goal.. 450 x 8.. it took some keeping the case temps down and not making too much fan nose cos its a hybrid gaming/TV machine.. clever use of the dremel and snippers.. he he..

i knew the chip ran sweet set at 3.6 gig having already used it.. the problem was keeping the case temps down in the small box..

i am pretty sure the same machine would power an e8400 at 4 gig 24/7.. in fact i know it would.. the mobo would be at the same fsb and the chip would need less voltage..

a hyper 580 should be ample power for the e8400 at 4 gig.. i think your problem lies elsewhere..

the e6750 was my first main intel chip.. i swopped to the e8400 to get 4 gig 24/7.. it draws less power at 4 gig than the 8 x multiplier e6750 chip does at 3.6..

trog

[Darknova]

i have just helped set up a cube micro atx case e6750 with one 3870 card on a hyper 530 psu.. it runs 24/7 set at 3.6 gig.. 3.6 was the goal.. 450 x 8.. it took some keeping the case temps down and not making too much fan nose cos its a hybrid gaming/TV machine.. clever use of the dremel and snippers.. he he..

i knew the chip ran sweet set at 3.6 gig having already used it.. the problem was keeping the case temps down in the small box..

i am pretty sure the same machine would power an e8400 at 4 gig 24/7.. in fact i know it would.. the mobo would be at the same fsb and the chip would need less voltage..

a hyper 580 should be ample power for the e8400 at 4 gig.. i think your problem lies elsewhere..

the e6750 was my first main intel chip.. i swopped to the e8400 to get 4 gig 24/7.. it draws less power at 4 gig than the 8 x multiplier e6750 chip does at 3.6..

trog

Nope, I've narrowed it down to my PSU being the only issue. On 2 motherboards, and 2 different chips, and 2 different sets of memory, I've not been able to get 400Mhz on the FSB, what's not changed? The PSU.

The fact I've replaced the motherboard, chip and memory, and still have the same problem as my last motherboard means it has to be the PSU, what else could it be? The case? :P

[trog100]

if it is the psu there is something wrong with it.. its not the make or the wattage.. i can say no more.. if u are right u dont need more power simply a psu that works..

i disputed your claim for more power thats all.. i also assumed the one u have works properly.. if it dosnt what more can be said..

basically any half decent 500 watt psu is more than enough for one 3870 card and a E8400 at 4 gig..

trog

[Darknova]

if it is the psu there is something wrong with it.. its not the make or the wattage.. i can say no more.. if u are right u dont need more power simply a psu that works..

i disputed your claim for more power thats all.. i also assumed the one u have works properly.. if it dosnt what more can be said..

basically any half decent 500 watt psu is more than enough for one 3870 card and a E8400 at 4 gig..

trog



trog

Heheh, maybe I didn't word it properly. What I believe has happened is that the line powering the motherboard is faulty some how, hence, I need a PSU that can deliver more power to the motherboard :)

[trog100]

Heheh, maybe I didn't word it properly. What I believe has happened is that the line powering the motherboard is faulty some how, hence, I need a PSU that can deliver more power to the motherboard :)

could well be.. i have seen the odd black looking connection or two.. in some ways its put me off modular supplies.. nice and neat but twice as many plugs and sockets to go wrong.. :)

trog

[Mussels]

could well be.. i have seen the odd black looking connection or two.. in some ways its put me off modular supplies.. nice and neat but twice as many plugs and sockets to go wrong.. :)

trog

+1 to that.

I also have a friend who realised the hard way.. modulars sound nice, but they're often longer and stiffer. At the PSU end of things they are a lot less flexible and protrude more so you'd better not be tight on space there (such as a matx system, where most people get modulars for) as the plugs often go straight out, and hit your DVD drive.

[Darknova]

could well be.. i have seen the odd black looking connection or two.. in some ways its put me off modular supplies.. nice and neat but twice as many plugs and sockets to go wrong.. :)

trog

Heheh, it's not modular :P but I do honestly think there's something wrong with it....no way I could have the same issue with 2 different sets of parts without the PSU being at fault...

[Wile E]

snag one of these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101029

they are great and use topower as an OEM so the same that make seasonic, ocz, mushkin, scythe, tagen so you can count that its going to work just fine :p

Seasonic is it's own OEM.

And I also fall into the impractical category. lol.

[cdawall]

Seasonic is it's own OEM.

And I also fall into the impractical category. lol.

i know i forgot to edit that

[yogurt_21]

hmmm so would phase and water be impractical? seems practical enough for me. my 2900 on water performa about the same as 2 in crossfire at stock. and phase on the cpu gets me an extra 400MHZ vs water, so seems practical enough to me. lol

[trog100]

+1 to that.

I also have a friend who realised the hard way.. modulars sound nice, but they're often longer and stiffer. At the PSU end of things they are a lot less flexible and protrude more so you'd better not be tight on space there (such as a matx system, where most people get modulars for) as the plugs often go straight out, and hit your DVD drive.

thats exactly what i thought setting up the media center cube case.. all the plugs sticking straight out the back would mean a modular wouldnt fit in here..

good job cos one nearly got bought.. he he he

trog

[PVTCaboose1337]

I with you on the OC impracticalities Trog. I have my simple AF64pro and I am like... it would be fun to have the extra mhz, but in reality, you don't need them. There are occasions though when I have wanted them and have walked outside of a cold day and played around.

[imperialreign]

thats exactly what i thought setting up the media center cube case.. all the plugs sticking straight out the back would mean a modular wouldnt fit in here..

good job cos one nearly got bought.. he he he

trog

that's the biggest thing about modulars I don't like - although the PSu dimensions are typically the same as a standard unit, you have to take into accout the ridgidity and style of the individual connectors . . . but, I find that modulars look neater, IMO, and as long as you've got the space for one, you can eliminate a bunch of connectors that you don't need.


as to the OCing thing - I'd say I'm borderline, I fall into the practically-impratical category. Shooting for 62GHz ain't really my thing, but damned if I don't have a problem running a component 50%+ OCed 24/7. On a side note, nowhere near done with this quad, yet, and planning on joining the dark side with a liquid setup in the very near future (finally).

[GSG-9]

hmmm so would phase and water be impractical? seems practical enough for me. my 2900 on water performa about the same as 2 in crossfire at stock. and phase on the cpu gets me an extra 400MHZ vs water, so seems practical enough to me. lol

You can gain a 25% performance increase on your 2900?

[Nitro-Max]

Makes me laugh lol when people calculate what psu they need for there systems hardware.
Then everythings great until they decide to overclock everything not taking this into consideration in the first place they run into problems or stuff up there powersupply cos all of a sudden the system needs more power.

[JC316]

I have to say that I am guilty of most of what you said. Some of it wasn't intentional though. Like I upgraded to a Q6600 from an E4300, I saw very little difference for the price.

I will milk my hardware for as much as I can get out of it, but then run it at a reasonable setting 24/7.

[Mussels]

Makes me laugh lol when people calculate what psu they need for there systems hardware.
Then everythings great until they decide to overclock everything not taking this into consideration in the first place they run into problems or stuff up there powersupply cos all of a sudden the system needs more power.

i'm stil shocked at how few people have wall meters. I've had one for a few years now, and people crap themselves when they realise you can even buy them - mine even shows teh efficiency of the PSU somehow (seen as low as 0.60 (60%) on generic PSU's and as high as 92% on good ones, like OCZ and antec)

The best part is always showing the difference a good PSU makes... i think i took over 100W usage at the wall off a system by swapping to a real PSU, because of the inefficiencies of cheap units they end up using MORE power than they should... making them run even worse.

[Nitro-Max]

i'm stil shocked at how few people have wall meters. I've had one for a few years now, and people crap themselves when they realise you can even buy them - mine even shows teh efficiency of the PSU somehow (seen as low as 0.60 (60%) on generic PSU's and as high as 92% on good ones, like OCZ and antec)

The best part is always showing the difference a good PSU makes... i think i took over 100W usage at the wall off a system by swapping to a real PSU, because of the inefficiencies of cheap units they end up using MORE power than they should... making them run even worse.

yep totally agree cheap can be expensive lol might only last a short while or it can surge and damage the lot. Efficiency is important and getting a little extra power than whats needed helps in the long run when overclocking or just upgrading plus the fact the psu isnt been over worked so theres less heat and less strain on the psu parts.

[Mussels]

yep totally agree cheap can be expensive lol might only last a short while or it can surge and damage the lot. Efficiency is important and getting a little extra power than whats needed helps in the long run when overclocking or just upgrading plus the fact the psu isnt been over worked so theres less heat and less strain on the psu parts.

changing from my powerstream 520W to a gameXstream 600W dropped 40W off my total power usage - same hardware, less power. The more that goes through the hotter and less efficient they get, so i really just get stunned by people who use cheap PSU's because 'its always worked fine'

I think power meters should become a lot more common, and not just in the PC world.

[imperialreign]

I've always gone over board when purchasing a PSU based on needs. The more available, the better, IMO, and the less the PSu has to work to meet the demands of the system.

I'm also a believer in that having a quality, reliable UPS makes a big difference in how effiecient the PSU runs as well. A high-quality UPS will reduce the voltage spikes and fluctuations that are coming out of the wall, which isn't good for many components as it is. A steady supply is preferable, IMO.

[GSG-9]

I'm also a believer in that having a quality, reliable UPS makes a big difference in how effiecient the PSU runs as well. A high-quality UPS will reduce the voltage spikes and fluctuations that are coming out of the wall, which isn't good for many components as it is. A steady supply is preferable, IMO.

I have never used a ups to know the difference but have always been told to get one, I ever got around to it, I still consider getting one sometimes.

[imperialreign]

I have never used a ups to know the difference but have always been told to get one, I ever got around to it, I still consider getting one sometimes.

I don't currently have one, either, and have been meaning to picking one up as well. I know quite a few people who swear by them, though, and not for the ability to back up info and all should power go out. Right now, all I have is a high-end surge protector, which keeps a lot of the power fluctuation and voltage spikes from the wall outlet down, but can't eliminate them like a UPS can. There's sound theory behind their usage, but I'm not sure most people give it any consideration asides from a safety net during a black out.

[Mussels]

i have a UPS that i cant use (it only supplies 400W :P)

The big thing is wether its a BACKUP UPS or not.
Backup units only kick in when the power is out, active units run 24/7 - backup units dont filter anything at all, as they only recharge until the power is out. backups are the most common one, as they are cheaper since they arent running all the time.

oh and measured at the wall my UPS was less efficient than my PSU (65% vs 88%) so it wasted a lot of power too when it was charging/idle... not worth it if you only get a cheap one, imo.