AMD plans to reduce workforce by 10%

[Nyte]

In a disappointing but agreed upon move, AMD has decided to cut 10% of its workforce due to lower than expected first quarter financial results. The majority of business segments (mainly CPU) did not meet financial targets and in most cases lost money (again, mainly CPU). The cuts will hit all groups (including the ones that generated profit like the graphics division, albeit at a smaller scale).

AMD currently employs 16 000 in its workforce; a 10% cut will mean approximately 1600 people will be relieved. The cuts are expected to begin mid-April and finish by the end of the 3rd quarter of 2008.

Source: BusinessWire (http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/template.MAXIMIZE/news/more/?javax.portlet.tpst=0b2c9a4dd5f89b80977dd367cc87b4 2f_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_0b2c9a4dd5f89b80977dd367cc87b42f _viewID=news_view&javax.portlet.prp_0b2c9a4dd5f89b80977dd367cc87b42f _newsLang=en&javax.portlet.prp_0b2c9a4dd5f89b80977dd367cc87b42f _ndmHsc=v2*A1204981200000*B1207635460000*DgroupByD ate*J2*L1*N1000837*ZAMD&javax.portlet.prp_0b2c9a4dd5f89b80977dd367cc87b42f _newsId=20080407006320&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken)

[beyond_amusia]

=( Poor AMD... If only they'd advertise as much as Intel does.

[Solaris17]

i wish they would...i have never seen an amd commerical...they should also go brand crazy and pay devs to put a cool into on their games. they would lose money for shure..because advertising isnt cheap..but they would gain it back and than some...my gram when buying a computer for my sis this lasy december said hey David this computer an a A...M...D TuRiOn is that any good..this one has an intel....i was like :(

[beyond_amusia]

i wish they would...i have never seen an amd commerical...they should also go brand crazy and pay devs to put a cool into on their games. they would lose money for shure..because advertising isnt cheap..but they would gain it back and than some...my gram when buying a computer for my sis this lasy december said hey David this computer an a A...M...D TuRiOn is that any good..this one has an intel....i was like :(

Yup.. Imagine if the major games did what they do for nVidia and Creative and Intel people would be like 'oh! I HAVE to have AMD to play this game!'

[PVTCaboose1337]

Back in the 939 FX days they did advertise regularly in WIRED magazine and such. Since then not so much... AMD look like it's going downhill... but not before I grab a 9850.

[erocker]

My heart goes out to the families of those who lost thier jobs. :toast:

[OzzmanFloyd120]

Sadly it's going to raise cost of AMD products and push consumers who are brand loyal into having to weigh out price over loalty. I know it's a dumb argument, but I'm one of those loyal consumers.
I think you guys are right about the ads though, I think the only place I've ever seen an AMD ad was at a hockey game, painted into the ice.

[Solaris17]

My heart goes out to the families of those who lost thier jobs. :toast:

seriously hey hun i just lost 80K+ a year lets play meds over food.

[WarEagleAU]

Kind of sucks. I hope they take a hard look at the situation, and decide some form of TV advertising, not just print and online, will take shape. Get the word out. Hell Intel doesnt even really have to advertise anymore, yet they still do occasionally. Aside from PC magz (like Maximum PC, CPU magazine, etc) there isnt any advertising.

Also, if the graphics division is making the money, itd make sense to float them right now. Turn some attention to processors and get on the ball AMD. I love you, but shit you are killing me here.

[suraswami]

Its not only TV commercials but effective marketing to big companies and government to use AMD products. Last time AMD did effective marketing in India and sold over 200,000 Athlon XP based PCs (partnered with Indian pc manufacturers) to Govt. of India and heck they still run fine there. I would expect such kind of marketing from those MF marketing executives who is sitting in their office and scratching their balls.:mad:

[eidairaman1]

my machine still plays well

[Psychoholic]

Its not just AMD, everytime i turn on the news i see where X Company is laying off 10-20% of its workforce.. Just last week Dell laid off 3000ppl. Its the economy.. it stinks right now.

[dccool879]

AMD has had sweet advertisment!!

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/71358439.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=0A988CE895E095AAC9633181A6E494D6A40A659CEC4C8CB6

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

The first and only AMD commercial I have ever seen was when they first introduced the A64 line.

[ShadowFold]

I feel like this is my fault for getting intel :cry: ive always used AMD.

[jocksteeluk]

If Only AMD hadn't purchased ATI they wouldn't be in this pickle.

[imperialreign]

I still think a great market for AMD to start plastering it's name is the computer animated movies, especially considering everyone's move towards HD at home as well - most companies that are developing these movies have admitted to using AMD/ATI hardware . . . AMD/ATI could get a 5 second logo clip right before the intro credits - much like nVidia has done with their TWIMTBP campaign. Considering the visual quality of these movies has continued to advance, and are quite remarkable nowadays, people will see that logo and say "Hey!! I want the best image quality and that's the product I want for my stuff at home!" - it'd be golden for AMD/ATI.

The more people see the AMD + ATI logos, the more people will buy the hardware. TBH, I feel a lot of the times nowadays people are purchasing hardware based more on whose logos they've seen more often.

[a111087]

The more people see the AMD + ATI logos, the more people will buy the hardware. TBH, I feel a lot of the times nowadays people are purchasing hardware based more on whose logos they've seen more often.

I agree and lots of people are noobs in PCs and thats the only way they make decisions..

[blkhogan]

Its all your fault Shadow!! Bad Shadow, bad.

Seriously, I feel for the families of the laidoff workers. It has always been AMD's point not to spend millions on advertizing, it is a way to keep overhead costs down in turn keeping product prices down.

-Hogan

[DanishDevil]

AMD has had sweet advertisment!!

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/71358439.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=0A988CE895E095AAC9633181A6E494D6A40A659CEC4C8CB6

It took me a full minute to find the AMD logo in that picture...

Yes, its all your fault. I hope you are proud of yourself, look at what you did. Bad Crash....bad bad. :roll:

Seriously, I feel for the families of the laidoff workers. It has always been AMD's point not to spend millions on advertizing, it is a way to keep overhead costs down in turn keeping product prices down.

-Hogan

You quoted the wrong guy...

I feel like this is my fault for getting intel :cry: ive always used AMD.

It's all your fault.

-----------------------------

It sucks to see this right when they're releasing their B3 Phenoms. This reminds me of when Kyle called the workers at the burger joint "you f*cking goobacks!" and his mom and dad come up behind him "Stan Marsh!"

And Kyle goes as he realizes that AMD may be in trouble "Ah...ah....AAAAAAWWWWWWW!"

[blkhogan]

LOL I caught that.... Long day at work today.:rockout:

[Solaris17]

If Only AMD hadn't purchased ATI they wouldn't be in this pickle.

if i tremember correctly amd bought ati so ati would float them cause amd was going bankrupt.

[suraswami]

It took me a full minute to find the AMD logo in that picture...



You quoted the wrong guy...



It's all your fault.

-----------------------------

It sucks to see this right when they're releasing their B3 Phenoms. This reminds me of when Kyle called the workers at the burger joint "you f*cking goobacks!" and his mom and dad come up behind him "Stan Marsh!"

And Kyle goes as he realizes that AMD may be in trouble "Ah...ah....AAAAAAWWWWWWW!"

Suddenly shadow is in the spotlight. Good marketing there all he he.

There was no need for another PC. Just for the heck of it to support AMD I built another one for test purposes (infact from last November to now this is the third PC to support them). I am not going to spend anymore until they come back up. May be I should buy few of their shares for the money but it won't be fun overclocking!!

[btarunr]

AMD, you're doing it wrong.

By cutting workforce you're effectively cutting output capacity. So to recoup losses and get back on track you need output.

[devguy]

If Only AMD hadn't purchased ATI they wouldn't be in this pickle.

IMHO, if they hadn't bought ATI, they might not be around today. Most people aren't aware that before the merger, AMD chipsets blowed. They bought ATI not just because of their graphics division, but also because of their chipset division. Just look at the AMD 690/790/780 chipsets. These have really done well for AMD.

As for their processor division, it is clearly what is dragging down everything else. Hopefully OEMs with AMD Tollimans in their machines appeal to the average Joe who may believe that since 3 cores are more than 2 cores, that a Core 2 duo at 2.4 will get dominated by a Phenom x3 at 2.2. At some point, though, when I upgrade from my Brisbane, I hope to get a B3 Phenom x3.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

If Only AMD hadn't purchased ATI they wouldn't be in this pickle.

ATI turned profit i think ... bt if it didnt its amd's fault.

[blkhogan]

We had better hope AMD holds on and pulls through it in one piece. They are the only real compitition that Intel has. If they were to go under Intel would corner the market. We all know where that will take us. Don't think it will really happen, but AMD was close to it before they bought the shares to ATI.

-Hogan

[ShadowFold]

If AMD goes out the Q6600 would cost as much a Q9770 and who the hell knows how much the Q9770 would be...

[Silverel]

Did anyone see the article the other day about how if they sold their fab plant in NY, it'd be worth over a BILLION dollars? They're sitting on their hands. They like that fab plant and want to keep it. You can bet long before they go out of buisness, that fab will be sold to someone. This is just another backup plan to avoid it. Selling their fab plant will keep em out of the hole for a few years straight, and pay off their interest. They just have to survive until they're allowed to sell it is all. NY subsidized a lot of the construction of that plant, and they don't want it to go either.

[blkhogan]

Did anyone see the article the other day about how if they sold their fab plant in NY, it'd be worth over a BILLION dollars? They're sitting on their hands. They like that fab plant and want to keep it. You can bet long before they go out of buisness, that fab will be sold to someone. This is just another backup plan to avoid it. Selling their fab plant will keep em out of the hole for a few years straight, and pay off their interest. They just have to survive until they're allowed to sell it is all. NY subsidized a lot of the construction of that plant, and they don't want it to go either.


This is true. The only draw back of that is how many companies 1- have that kinda money in todays market? 2- could utilize the state of the art fab plant? I know that there are a few that could, but do they want to spend that kinda money?

[Dangle]

All AMD needs to do is release a better proc than Intel's fastest. Then they'd get FREE plugging/advertising all over the media and the internet.

[moto666]

I will go outside and paint an AMD logo on the Large Supermarket next to me!
Then I will Paint the streets Like AMD was there! :D
I need spray, black cloths, a mask, a light...
Hmm An a good slogen! But Somthing New, and Funky!

:rolleyes:

[moto666]

I think I can do better then this idiots by AMD :D:D:D

[suraswami]

I think I can do better then this idiots by AMD :D:D:D

"Like Intel Inside Idiots outside"?

[DanishDevil]

Intel Inside the closet, AMD out. ROFL!

[Gallatin]

AMD has had sweet advertisment!!

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/71358439.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=0A988CE895E095AAC9633181A6E494D6A40A659CEC4C8CB6

this one is better and far more expensive
http://img.techpowerup.org/080408/38481.jpg

[moto666]

Yeah intel "inside your wallet..." :D

[BumbRush]

i love amd, but their marketing has alwase sucked, if amd got off their asses hired a good marketing team they would beable to gain market share even if they arent the fastist, people want cheap and "good enought" more then pay alot to get more perf.

im quite happy with my amd system, and my next upgrade WILL be amd, i know some will say its stupid to go amd now, but amd has ALWASE treated me right, unlike intel where i have had to FIGHT to get a replacement chip from rma because they didnt have the model i sent back in avalable anymore, only higher end chips and they dont like giving u a free upgrade even if its only a side step from a 90 to 65nm chip with same perf.

[btarunr]

Ahem, marketing teams don't decide that, marketing budgets do. Back when AMD was doing well with its Athlon64 success, it stepped up marketing, the local stores were decked wall-to-wall with AMD posters and banners. I have three posters in the closet and back in 2005 I remember replacing 'Big Arnie' with Athlon64 FX in the bathroom.

[FreedomEclipse]

wasn't it not so long ago when they fired their Marketing guy & hired another one?????

I remember seeing it here on TPU. somebody tell that C*nt to stop f**king around & do his job otherwise it'l be HIS ass included on the next out bound choo choo train

AMD has advertised in the earlier 939 years - stuck their logos on a few games but not enough why cant they come up with something like the Nvidia game skit you usually see when booting up Unreal Tournament 2003/2004 with the old slogan "as it was ment to be played"

AMD really need to f**king buckle the f**k down & get their sh*t together & say f**k everyone & everything else, we are going to f**king start a revolution & reclaim back their rightful market share as well as giving Intel a run for their f**king wallets

you know what AMD? hire me as chief f**king motivator & I will make heads f**king role. I will beat you the the very last nanometer of your insignificant sh*tty lives until you release something that wouldnt make a good paper weight.

I want results not f**king exscuses.

[btarunr]

Control your emotions. Without a proper marketing budget, they can't have their staff go door to door like school-kids belonging to some environmentalist group. So you can't really blame the marketing staff when the company doesn't want to spend on marketing. You can blame the staff only IF they made adverts and run marketing campaigns that didn't cause expected response from the market. They didn't (except may be the Phenom and Dare to DIY). Phenom didn't meet expectations but X2 5000+ Black Edition sold reasonably well. So, blame the marketing budget and their engineers that failed to deliver a product that lived upto its hype (Phenom).

[OzzmanFloyd120]

Did anyone see the article the other day about how if they sold their fab plant in NY, it'd be worth over a BILLION dollars? They're sitting on their hands. They like that fab plant and want to keep it. You can bet long before they go out of buisness, that fab will be sold to someone. This is just another backup plan to avoid it. Selling their fab plant will keep em out of the hole for a few years straight, and pay off their interest. They just have to survive until they're allowed to sell it is all. NY subsidized a lot of the construction of that plant, and they don't want it to go either.

Maybe they should start talking numbers with Intel?

[BumbRush]

btarunr, amd's marketing team has sucked forever, its NEVER been good, if they had 1/100 the team intel or nvidia have they would at least have some combine adds with acer and such on tv for laptops and such, problem is that their marketing teams a joke, not that they lack funds to market themselves.

even back when they had those posters it didnt help much, because they had no genral name recognition, tv is how you get that first, hence all the intel inside/core2 powered commercials with dell and the like, u do know that intel and dell work togather on those adds dont you?

if amd did the same thing maby they would become a known name insted of just being considered a "cheap intel knockoff" like alot of ppl think they are.

no joke i have acctualy had people tell me amd suck because they are just a cheap knockoff of intel, and that was when a64 was kicking the hell out of the p4/p-d, when i talked to those ppl there reasioning wasnt because they where intel fans, but because they didnt know that amd has been around a VERY long time and has acctualy invented some of the tech intel has been FORCED to use(x86-64) one of them ended up getting an amd based laptop just after turion 4000+ chips came out thanks to talking with me, at the time NOTHING intel had was close to as powerfull, and all the intel laptops had worse batt life and intagrated intel video, the turion had x600 onboard with its own 256mb ram(yeah yeah i know slow but better then any intagrated is)

[btarunr]

Marketing needs money, which AMD isn't willing to spend on. Back when their cash registers were ringing (2003~2006) they had the money and they did spend it on marketing. They made retailers put up posters, gave away free goodies to retailers and OEM partners, etc. My cousin has a black Phenom t-shirt and a red lava-lamp (ATI), he works for a big-time distributor.

Agree they had very few of those TV-commercials that Intel splurges on but the thing is, TV-commercials cost a bomb. AMD India ran a "Brilliance in multi-tasking" ad campaign and also held several contests and sweepstakes. Online .swf ads aren't that expensive and they did run the "Smash that hourglass" ads when they launched Athlon64 X2 but that dried up too. What does it indicate? Does it indicate a 'sucked forever' marketing dept. or does it indicate that AMD isn't investing on marketing? I'd choose the latter. Yes, when the board decides not to allocate any more funds on marketing, how can you blame the marketing dept?

[Morgoth]

All AMD needs to do is release a better proc than Intel's fastest. Then they'd get FREE plugging/advertising all over the media and the internet.

yea that would be so hard for amd..

[btarunr]

It wasn't hard for AMD to "Clawhammer the Netburst". A magic product from either side comes totally out of the blue so we just have to wait.

[Morgoth]

yea even if the manage to get somthing like 5-10% faster then intel core 2 dou architect based cpu Nehalem is still 30% faster then c2d

[InnocentCriminal]

We can only hope that AMD's 45nm high-end Phenoms can actually claw back some of the performance crown. That way we'll have a nice competition again instead of Intel pissing all over AMD.

[FreedomEclipse]

AMD = http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n210/FinalFreedomEclipse/2rq11tu.gif

[suraswami]

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3272&p=1

The above article clearly shows how the 6400 is capable of scoring more, than few Core2s and even Q6600 at default speeds in few benchmarks. Only we overclockers know the difference when overclocked etc. Average/below average joe will know nothing about it. But Intel managed to spend a foturne to market their dumb ass Netburst and still spending a lot in marketing.

AMD needs to do that. Have confidence in their product line and start spending few more on the marketing.

According to my books PIII and A64 are the best invented architecture. Core2s are nothing but overclocked 2 PIII cores glued together. Don't know what good is that in terms of tech advancement? People are fond of just jumping over the fence without even knowing anything about where they are going.

Intel did nothing interms of tech advancement. Who got the first 64 bit? Who got the first energy efficient procs? Who got the integrated memory controller? Who got native Quad? And who bought the first unified HD decoder? -- All AMD/ATI.

Intel - they reinvented the global heater:D Intel is just following the foot steps of AMD and people believe Intel did everything. What an idiotic world we live in:shadedshu

[pepsi71ocean]

AMD should hire me, ide walk into that board room and say to them all by the time i leave this office less than half of you will still be in here. Thats what my uncle did at Sears. Heck AMD should hire my uncle, hell fix them right up.

[a111087]

AMD should hire me, ide walk into that board room and say to them all by the time i leave this office less than half of you will still be in here. Thats what my uncle did at Sears. Heck AMD should hire my uncle, hell fix them right up.

ok, but for a while they will pay you with semprons :roll:

[Morgoth]

some one on amd sould do the same thing as steve did on apple or what ever his name was

[BumbRush]

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3272&p=1

The above article clearly shows how the 6400 is capable of scoring more, than few Core2s and even Q6600 at default speeds in few benchmarks. Only we overclockers know the difference when overclocked etc. Average/below average joe will know nothing about it. But Intel managed to spend a foturne to market their dumb ass Netburst and still spending a lot in marketing.

AMD needs to do that. Have confidence in their product line and start spending few more on the marketing.

According to my books PIII and A64 are the best invented architecture. Core2s are nothing but overclocked 2 PIII cores glued together. Don't know what good is that in terms of tech advancement? People are fond of just jumping over the fence without even knowing anything about where they are going.

Intel did nothing interms of tech advancement. Who got the first 64 bit? Who got the first energy efficient procs? Who got the integrated memory controller? Who got native Quad? And who bought the first unified HD decoder? -- All AMD/ATI.

Intel - they reinvented the global heater:D Intel is just following the foot steps of AMD and people believe Intel did everything. What an idiotic world we live in:shadedshu

netburst(or as my friends call it Nutburst) was horrible, and intel has just been copying stuff from AMD, intels first "dual core" was 2 p4's ducktaped togather, their first quad was 2 core2duo's ducktaped togather, the core2 is just an evolution on the pentium-m that was just a p3 with some small updates and higher clocks.........

purevideo sucks, and i have it!!!, its better then it use to be, at least on the g92 it has an effect thats decent/noticeable......

i cant wait till i get payed and can order my upgradez ;)

[btarunr]

I don't get why the first thing AMDorks crib about Intel quads is that it's two dual-core dies 'duct-taped'. Despite a supposedly 'inferior' architecture it performs better than the 'true quads'. Yes, Netburst is inferior but it was designed way back in 2000 (or earlier) when AMD was selling K6/K7 whose architecture was competitive to Netburst. It sucked in front of K8 microarchitecture just as K8 sucked in front of Intel Core microarchitecture. So, base your arguments with time sync.

[suraswami]

I don't get why the first thing AMDorks crib about Intel quads is that it's two dual-core dies 'duct-taped'. Despite a supposedly 'inferior' architecture it performs better than the 'true quads'. Yes, Netburst is inferior but it was designed way back in 2000 (or earlier) when AMD was selling K6/K7 whose architecture was competitive to Netburst. It sucked in front of K8 microarchitecture just as K8 sucked in front of Intel Core microarchitecture. So, base your arguments with time sync.

AMD just needs some tinkering. Its actually riding a dented car. Need to get paid to repair it:cry:. Then it will be transformed into a flashy sports car:D.

I was talking about technology. Inferior tech (Intel) no matter how better it runs still suck.

"K8 sucked in front of Intel Core microarchitecture" - Wrong statement. Even with the 60s car its still competing with your brand new flashy 2008 car. Show me how many benchmarks Core2 beats the K8 at default speeds, leave alone the OC(I accept C2 OCs like mad:respect:).

"K6/K7 whose architecture was competitive to Netburst" - Once again wrong. K6 was created to compete PIII. K7 was created to compete Netburst.

"Yes, Netburst is inferior but it was designed way back in 2000 (or earlier)" - So you can put up with Intel's crap for 6/7 years but if AMD screws up with their latest K10 can't wait 6 months too?

[btarunr]

AMD just needs some tinkering. Its actually riding a dented car. Need to get paid to repair it:cry:. Then it will be transformed into a flashy sports car:D.

I was talking about technology. Inferior tech (Intel) no matter how better it runs still suck.

I want faster computing, I don't give a flying **** to what technology drives it. So, the Intel Core 2 series gives me that regardless of what you allege to be an 'inferior' architecture. What edge does your 'superior' architecture give you end of it?

"K8 sucked in front of Intel Core microarchitecture" - Wrong statement. Even with the 60s car its still competing with your brand new flashy 2008 car. Show me how many benchmarks Core2 beats the K8 at default speeds, leave alone the OC(I accept C2 OCs like mad:respect:).

Oh, it does suck, Suri. The fact that a Core processor crunches 4 instructions /clock cycle against a K8 (and K10) crunching 3 /clock cycle makes that clear. You're comparing a car with a three cylinder engine to a 4 burner.

"K6/K7 whose architecture was competitive to Netburst" - Once again wrong. K6 was created to compete PIII. K7 was created to compete Netburst.

Oh, and the same PIII evolved Tualatin evolves into Core according to AMDork philosophy :rolleyes:. Right, statement changed: "Netburst was made to compete with K7" and well, what d'ya know? Since K7 couldn't evolve on a clock to clock against Netbursts, the Willamette/Northwood/Prescott_478 was a success against Palomino/Thoroughbred/Barton. Point remains that you can't say "Netburst sucks" in 2008 when it was more of a 2000~2005 technology which was eventually beat by AMD K8.....which in-turn was eventually beat by Intel Core. You have the results.

"Yes, Netburst is inferior but it was designed way back in 2000 (or earlier)" - So you can put up with Intel's crap for 6/7 years but if AMD screws up with their latest K10 can't wait 6 months too?

It's still prettymuch a screwup. Face it, the K10 isn't that "Phenominal evolution" over K8, it's the same 3 instructions/cc architecture, SSE4A and a L3 cache. It really isn't an evolution of what it was touted to be. While the best quad core for under $250 is the Phenom X4 9850 BE, there's no higher offering so AMD just got into a niche market, isn't looking to take on to giant killing acts the way the Barton core took on NorthwoodHT 2.8 GHz / 3.0 GHz. Back then, AMD aimed to the top, and it got there. Now all you have is a lacklusture effort and the fact that it cut ~1600 job re-iterates that.

[suraswami]

"Oh, it does suck, Suri. The fact that a Core processor crunches 4 instructions /clock cycle against a K8 (and K10) crunching 3 /clock cycle makes that clear. You're comparing a car with a three cylinder engine to a 4 burner.
" - hey still 6400 beats Q6600 in certain tasks. Just needs little tinkering. See it this way - when 6400 can come close to Q6600 with 3 inst if the same thing gets 4 inst? This will happen.

"Oh, and the same PIII evolved Tualatin evolves into Core according to AMDork philosophy . Right, statement changed: "Netburst was made to compete with K7" and well, what d'ya know? Since K7 couldn't evolve on a clock to clock against Netbursts, the Willamette/Northwood/Prescott_478 was a success against Palomino/Thoroughbred/Barton. Point remains that you can't say "Netburst sucks" in 2008 when it was more of a 2000~2005 technology which was eventually beat by AMD K8.....which in-turn was eventually beat by Intel Core. You have the results."

- I wouldn't say netburst was a success, common a 3.4 can't do the same work of AMD running at 2.2

"It's still prettymuch a screwup. Face it, the K10 isn't that "Phenominal evolution" over K8" - yeah accepted. Man = evolution. so wait and see.

[btarunr]

Hey still 6400 beats Q6600 in certain tasks. Just needs little tinkering. See it this way - when 6400 can come close to Q6600 with 3 inst if the same thing gets 4 inst? This will happen.

Apply this logic: the 6400+ is a 3.20 GHz processor compared to the 2.40 GHz Q6600 (digest: 32 * 3 = 24 *4). The 'certain tasks' you talk of clearly are single/dual threaded applications. The 6400+ doesn't lead significantly though. My comparision would be E8400 to 6400+....they're priced nearly the same ($180~190 for the E8400, what is supposed to be its price that's jacked up now due to stock shortage)....or better still, E8200 (2.66 GHz, 6 MB cache, 45nm Wolfdale, $150~$170 ), come on, compare them for me.

- I wouldn't say netburst was a success, common a 3.4 can't do the same work of AMD running at 2.2

AMD what running at 2.2? If it's K7 then you're wrong, the Barton 3200+ (clocked at 2.2 GHz) couldn't outperform a P4 at 3.0 GHz. If it's K8 2.2, yes, but I already placed a condition that K8 comes in a time-frame after the whole K7, P4/PD Netbursts, it's next-gen. To compete with that very K8, Intel released Intel Core which overall is a success, to compete with Core, AMD released K10, which overall is a failure. (You have the TLB fixed xx50 now, but it still doesn't compete with the fastest Intel has to offer)

Man = evolution. so wait and see.

Yeah right, with a 10% loss in workforce, we'll see :rolleyes:

[suraswami]

you never know those 10% would be not so bright ones.

Yes I was talking about Barton 3200. Except in Video applications almost everything else it did well.

[eidairaman1]

you guys need to knock it off with the Lamebrain insults

[btarunr]

Yes I was talking about Barton 3200. Except in Video applications almost everything else it did well.

...against a 3.40 GHz processor? :wtf:

you never know those 10% would be not so bright ones.

My contention is that with loss in workforce, there's a reduction in output capacity.

[erocker]

you guys need to knock it off with the Lamebrain insults

Yes, please it's growing quite tiresome. "Stay in line!!" I used to get yelled at by my old phys. ed. teacher, I think that applies here as well.

[BumbRush]

AMD just needs some tinkering. Its actually riding a dented car. Need to get paid to repair it:cry:. Then it will be transformed into a flashy sports car:D.

I was talking about technology. Inferior tech (Intel) no matter how better it runs still suck.

"K8 sucked in front of Intel Core microarchitecture" - Wrong statement. Even with the 60s car its still competing with your brand new flashy 2008 car. Show me how many benchmarks Core2 beats the K8 at default speeds, leave alone the OC(I accept C2 OCs like mad:respect:).

"K6/K7 whose architecture was competitive to Netburst" - Once again wrong. K6 was created to compete PIII. K7 was created to compete Netburst.

"Yes, Netburst is inferior but it was designed way back in 2000 (or earlier)" - So you can put up with Intel's crap for 6/7 years but if AMD screws up with their latest K10 can't wait 6 months too?

k7 was to compete with p3 copermine and later netburst, the k7 goes for the slotA athlon classic, the socketA tbird and spitfire cores all the way to the tbred-b and barton cores used later.

Netburst was made to replace the even at that time superior design of the p3, the tuilitin p3 KILLED the p4 at 2x the clock, yet intel killed off the p3 line to push the p4 chips because they all belived "clocks sell chips thats all that matters" dispite their engineers HATING the design due to it being so inefficent.......i have talked face to face with the ppl that designed/updated the netburst design, none of them liked it, it was to inefficent and to hot.........horrible!!!!


core is just an evolution on their older design, im SURE that some of their engineers have been working on that design ever since they p3t was killed off eather by order or just because they knew netburst was a dead end, that would explain the pentium-m and core/core2 chips being at the state they are/where when they became widely used, they had alot of dev time b4 they hit the market, and alot of revisions as well :)

[BumbRush]

btarunr: yes the k7 even competed with the 3.4gz p4's in all but video encoding(and some audio encoding) because the p4's design had 1 advantege it was good at encoding type apps, for everything else, hell i have seen p4 chips that at stock run hotter then a tbird or palimino chip at stock dispite having a better cooler(if the amd used the same cooler it would run alot cooler then the p4 did)

and the k8 was NOT A BIG CHANGE from the k7, it was effectivly a k7 with better sse support and onboard memory contoler, these are what killed intel, p4 needed massive memory bandwith to keep the inefficent core fed with data, meaning rdram/rimm memory was a good move at the time, and if they hadent killed the ability of every other memory maker to make rimm's it would still be around, once ddr dual ch came out it took the place of rimm/rdram because it was ALOT cheaper, but its perf was still below that of the same chip using rimm/rdram.

on the other hand, the k7 and k8 can perform just fine using single chail ddr

then look at the p4 using ddr2 dual chanil, vs the k8, still didnt beet it, dispite costingmore, when amd moved to ddr2 it was after the latancys of ddr2 droped to where it was compeditive to ddr in per ALSO it was around the same price, hence it was a good move no matter what all the pissed off 939 owners say.

people cry that 939's life was to short, but i hear far more p4 423 owners PISSED that they can just slap a new cpu into their system, hell this has been true since the p4 came out, the 423 hada 6mo lifespan b4 u couldnt find retail parts for it anymore.......at least amd hasnt killed a socket in such a short time....

[btarunr]

Tualatin was an evolution, only that it had to be killed because at that point the USP was clock speed, and people lived in a dogma that GHz means everything, this dogma was crushed by AMD K8 to point that Intel was forced to give up on the Netbust, at one point it was touted that it would take Intel a 5+ GHz Netburst (that would double up as a room warmer) to beat the AMD SanDiego FX-57 that ran cool and blazing fast at 2.80 GHz. At this point consumers slowly got out of their shells and started to disregard "GHz moar means moar!1!"...so Intel go back to thier closets, bring out the dusty Tualatin prints, improvise great deal on it and release Yonah...which proved it could take on the K8 originally being a mobile processor. So.....Conroe, Allendale, eventually Kentsfield and it's bad days for K8.

What's my point? Tualatin was advanced, more than the then Netbursts so Intel made the evolution way back then and forgot about it. But AMD has put in a lacklusture effort in competing with the Core. They grew complacent over their K8 success, thought K8 + DDR2 would bring them back to the top but fumbled, thought K10 would do it but they did it wrong. They used the same K8 design methodology, four cores on one die, IMC of PC2-8500, 512KB dedicated caches per core at L2 (here's the problem, where Core processors enjoy shared caches and single threaded processes have access to greater amounts of fast L2 cache when needed). AMD put in a L3 cache of 2MB but the problem with L3 caches are that they're not as fast as L2 caches, don't have the same bandwidth and step up latencies instead. When there was panic in the Intel camp and they rolled out the P4 EE (Emergency Edition), all they did was to add a 2MB L3 cache which clearly was slow, stepped up latencies, etc.

BumbRush: P4 had the advantage of SSE-2 which K7 lacked, that's why P4 encoded better.

[BumbRush]

btarunr, it wasnt all about sse2, many encoding apps back then didnt make use or or make proper use of sse2, it was more about the way the p4/netburst are made, hence they still competed with far overall better k8 chips.

also the sse support in the k7 was so/so, it was more of a taged on sse unit, think of it like the p4's amd64(x86-64) support it was taged on as an afterthought/upgrade but wasnt native to the cpu.

and i agree the k10 wasnt a great move, but this was a dession by the morons in management, we didnt see a k9 because they cancled the project, when they did that they lost one of their better designers from that.

the k9 was totaly new design, it was a mix of RISC and CISC designs from what i have been told, it was in many ways based on the concepts from the old dec alpha cpus, this rings true since much of the design team was made of ex-dec engineers who designed the alpha chips.

i honestly think that management just didnt get that reducing the instruction set(risc) could be a GOOD THING, remove rarely used or un-used portions, or portions that could be emulated using new fetures with no perf loss, replace them with new instructions that could boost perf across the board, but as we know managment many times fear change.

effectivly i see the k10 as being a rushed design that will get ironed out given a little time, at least unlike intels execs moving to and sticking with the netburst cores the amd execs had a solid design they forced the design team to stick with/update.

i would expect that the 45nm k10's would bring optimizations a plenty, basickly the k10's ur seeing now are like the pentium-m they are an evolution on a theme, and as with core2 i would expect amd to get it worked out indue time.

now intels FINNELY moving to IMC this means everybody who owns an intel system and wants to upgrade gets the fun of buying yet another new board and cpu insted of just a cpu, its why my next upgrades just gonna be a new am2+ board and whatever chips the best price/perf/overclock ratio at the time, i already got a cooler that will work, and i will take my current am2 rig and build a 2nd box using ram i got sitting on my shelf :)

i know, intels currently faster, but im honestly considering a quad or tri core since i encode alot and i KNOW the app i use to do it WILL make use of the quads(as will my audio encoding app) also the app i use will have support for the new sse4a and other optimizations for the k10 chips come soon(already being worked on) :)

i just wana beable to swap my chip a year from now and upgrade it without a new board( i have swaped my am2 chip 4 times now) i HATE replacing motherboards.....fucking pain in the ass!!!!

[btarunr]

Not all AM2 boards today take (support) AM2+ processors hence, you can't be sure your current AM2 board to support AM3 or future chips. Isn't AM3 supposed to be DDR3 supportive though it could run on an AM2 board?

K8 + DDR2 = K9, according to most motherboard manufacturers. Many including the likes of MSI and ASUS resorted to using the term "K9" in the names of their AM2 boards. I don't know if it was a blooper but many took AM2 processors as K9.

[Morgoth]

now intels FINNELY moving to IMC this means everybody who owns an intel system and wants to upgrade gets the fun of buying yet another new board and cpu insted of just a cpu, its why my next upgrades just gonna be a new am2+ board and whatever chips the best price/perf/overclock ratio at the time, i already got a cooler that will work, and i will take my current am2 rig and build a 2nd box using ram i got sitting on my shelf
emm New socket yes cus LGA775 cant handel the futeres of Nehalem
and if AMD got somthing bether then core2 amd wil fail cus core2 gets replaced by nehalem its 30% faster clock to clock! take that

[BumbRush]

Not all AM2 boards today take (support) AM2+ processors hence, you can't be sure your current AM2 board to support AM3 or future chips. Isn't AM3 supposed to be DDR3 supportive though it could run on an AM2 board?

K8 + DDR2 = K9, according to most motherboard manufacturers. Many including the likes of MSI and ASUS resorted to using the term "K9" in the names of their AM2 boards. I don't know if it was a blooper but many took AM2 processors as K9.

am2 are not k9, some mobo makers may call it that but its not the k9 was scraped and never made market.

the only am2 boards that cant take an am2+cpu are those that dont have bios updates for it, and most of those dont have bios updates because the maker used bios chip that lack the capacity to hold the needed updates(a good part is the patch for that bugg in b2 cores)

and am3 will add ddr3 support but the chips will also support ddr2, just not on the same motherboard, tho im sure asrock/ecs/pcchips will come out with boards that have slots for both kinds of ram.

also am3 chips will be capable of running in am2/am2+ boards, amd planned this all along, in reality they could have dont the same thing with 939 but from what i have been told it would have taken longer to have gotten the chips out pushing am2's launch out another year or more, hence they just did a clean jump to am2 and EOL'd 939 and 754

emm New socket yes cus LGA775 cant handel the futeres of Nehalem
and if AMD got somthing bether then core2 amd wil fail cus core2 gets replaced by nehalem its 30% faster clock to clock! take that

proof of 30% boost???? i haven seen any benches that proove it yet.......and i know 775 cant deal with the new design because intels FINNELY copying what amd did with the first athlon64's and moving to an IMC insted of chipset based memory controler, intel could be using that extra effcency as how they are saying it will be more efficent per clock, also u know how much thats gonna cost to get?

im guessing ddr3 is a must, so thats gonna run u an arm+leg+left nut, or a kidnee.....

to me its more about what i can get for my $ and what will last me the longist, sure i could get core2 and overclock it like mad, but what about when sse5 comes out and encoding apps support that, do i wana just swap out a cpu or do i wana be forced to buy a whole new rig?

i got a diffrent view then most of you i guess, i dont like swaping my board, if i got one that works well i prefer to stick with it as long as i can, board swaping to me is just to damn time consuming.......

meh, i figuar eather way if i get a chip that can do 2,9-3gz on air that will drasticly speed up encoding for me, then im all for it :)

[Morgoth]

ther are 2 benches of nehalem i look tomorow of i can find them, why ur saying intel copying amd for intergrated memmory controller if so amd copyed IBM for intergrated memmory controller... but i could be rong
and ddr3 wil drop in price end this year
btw nehalem wil remove the northbridge and i dont think amd is this far...

[BumbRush]

amd's northbrige is acctualy on the cpu, the nortbrige as its classicly known is the memory controler and some other small componanats, the "nortbrige" on current amd boards is far from the same as it was on older boards, hell on the k10 you have to change the northbrige clock multi to overclock using Fsb(problem so many clockers had was that they didnt lower northy multi or couldnt lower it)

see people and companys still list "north" and "south" on some chipsets, but in reality its not the same as it was in the k7 days, and im SURE that intels new boards will still have 2 chips for the board chipset if they had 2 already, because the "south" tends to be sata/ide controlers and such and the "north" tends to manage the communication of pci/pci-e devices with the cpu and eachother.

intel still today uses the clasical northbrige that handels all system traffic to memory and cpu, this is one reasion they have had to upp the fsb over and over, because its saturated by all the memory and system traffic, its become like a freeway in cali at rush hour!!!!!

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

no need for mindless fanboi fighting intels current arch is superior in everyway except memory handling .. which is going to change by next arch ... what is amd's counter?

[BumbRush]

a pie in the face maby?

personaly i dont need to be on the "top dog" platform, as long as im not on a p4/p-d im happy, the only thing those old heaters are good for is as encoding boxes!!!!

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

a pie in the face maby?

personaly i dont need to be on the "top dog" platform, as long as im not on a p4/p-d im happy, the only thing those old heaters are good for is as encoding boxes!!!!

you can have a pie

keep on fooling urself:)

[btarunr]

ther are 2 benches of nehalem i look tomorow of i can find them, why ur saying intel copying amd for intergrated memmory controller if so amd copyed IBM for intergrated memmory controller... but i could be wrong
and ddr3 wil drop in price end this year
btw nehalem wil remove the northbridge and i dont think amd is this far...

You're right. It's not about who copied who, it's about what they made of it. AMD still doesn't have a working prototype processor with a DDR3 controller. If someone calls it a "flicked from AMD", remind them, they use x86, SSE 1~4, MMX which are all technologies licensed from Intel. Besides, the concept of AMD integrating a memory controller isn't a patented technology (else we'd be in the middle of a legal battle).

And no, Nehalem doesn't remove NB. Remember that thread with the pics of the Intel Smackover board? It had an exposed NB for illustrative purposes. So yeah, the NB was present, though companies like NVidia could come up with a chipset consisting of just a single chip (the way it was with the NForce 500 (AMD) series (except 590 SLI) where the chipset consisted of a single chip).

[p_o_s_pc]

Back in the 939 FX days they did advertise regularly in WIRED magazine and such. Since then not so much... AMD look like it's going downhill... but not before I grab a 9850.

those 9850s look good. They can get nice overclocks from the looks of the reviews. that must be one thing that AMD fixed.Also that bug is fixed that is another good thing. Maybe the B3 stepping with help AMD out.