100% Fan safe for 24/7 ?

[btarunr]

Gigabyte GV-NX88T512H-B, reference 8800 GT PCB, cooler, GPU parameters.

While it's nice and quite when during normal operation when the card maintains a ~30% fan speed, it gets really hot:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080423/bta2.jpg

So I decided to up the fan duty cycle to 100% using Riva-Tuner and:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080423/bta.bmp

It got cooler than that but the temperatures dropped in a matter of seconds, and with drop in fan speeds, it shot up even quicker. So while I can do with the loud fan, is it safe keeping the fan at 100% 24/7 ?

[HTC]

I believe that RivaTuner has an option to apply the changed fan settings @ startup: have you tried that?

http://img.techpowerup.org/080423/2008-04-23_131020.png

[btarunr]

Um yes. But is it safe for me to keep the fan running at 100% ? Would it damage the fan?

[HTC]

Um yes. But is it safe for me to keep the fan running at 100% ? Would it damage the fan?

No idea there, dude.

Try this:

- Use GPU-Z to copy your vid card BIOS
- Use RBE to load the vid card BIOS and take a look @ the Fan settings: change it to whatever suits your needs and save the BIOS
- Use ATIWinFlash to flash the the modded BIOS to the vid card: be sure to disable any and all settings of RivaTuner before using this prog because RivaTuner interferes with it.

[btarunr]

RBE and ATIWinFlash for an NVidia BIOS?

Changing fan settings and maintaining them isn't an issue here. Instead of playing with the BIOS, I can have Riva-Tuner's startup daemon do that. Just asking if the reference NVidia fan can sustain 100% speeds throughout.

[HTC]

RBE and ATIWinFlash for an NVidia BIOS?

Changing fan settings and maintaining them isn't an issue here. Instead of playing with the BIOS, I can have Riva-Tuner's startup daemon do that. Just asking if the reference NVidia fan can sustain 100% speeds throughout.

Ooops: forgot about that ... :eek:

Dunno, dude: maybe someone else can answer that! Sorry :ohwell:

[spud107]

it may just decrease lifespan a little bit, why not run it at around 90%? is there much temp difference at that speed?

[btarunr]

it may just decrease lifespan a little bit, why not run it at around 90%? is there much temp difference at that speed?

Hmm..let's see

Switched from ~30% to 90%, ran for 4 minutes:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080423/bta3.jpg

Switched from 90% to 100%, ran for 4 minutes:

http://img.techpowerup.org/080423/bta4.jpg

10% looks significant.

[twicksisted]

the fan is designed to run at a particular voltage (100%)... lowering the speed just lowers the voltage... so running 100% constantly is just running the fan at its designed normal rated speed.

Sure this means that it will last its estimated MTBF approximately, but thats what it was designed to do

[btarunr]

Right, so it affects the MTBF but other than that, it doesn't result in damage to the fan during operation, does it?

[spud107]

if you can bear the noise it should be fine, i didnt think 10% would make much diff,
most of the time i dont notice much difference running between 90% & 100%

[CrackerJack]

Right, so it affects the MTBF but other than that, it doesn't result in damage to the fan during operation, does it?

you should be fine, i haven't done done it for that long. I do it for about 5-8 hours. Just to benchmark :D But if you want to change it in the bios use NiBiTor (http://www.mvktech.net/content/view/2069/37/). Tool here (http://www.mvktech.net/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,26/func,fileinfo/filecatid,2537/parent,category/)

[btarunr]

if you can bear the noise it should be fine

I should be able to. I got these cards upon returning a DOA XpertVision card (that had the signature Palit design cooler). So I install this card, turn on the machine and for a minute look around...it sounds like a hairdryer. After POST the sound dampened. I restart the machine just to listen to that sound again. Loud, funny.

[spud107]

the stock cooler on mine was quickly replaced with a zalman, that runs at 100% constantly from the mb. the other fans drown it out

[wolf]

actually i believe leaving the fan on auto is worse for the fan.

i tend to think the fan running constantly at 100% is better for it than changing constantly between ~30% and ~100%.

but in all cases i doubt that auto or fixed settings of any kind would be bad for the fan at all, as twicksisted said, running at 100% is just running at normal voltage. making the fan spin slower is giving it less voltage than it can use.

[Beertintedgoggles]

About the only issue you need to worry about when running a fan 24/7 all out with no regulation would be the bearings wearing out. Voltage breakdown of the wire insulation may occur on the copper wires in the fan motor but that'd require a very significant amount of over-voltage to the fan (even then the insulation would prob. start to melt first due to the added resistance of the motor.... over-voltage causes fan to spin faster -> more resistance on the fan blades -> internal electrical resistance of the fan motor increases -> copper wires (motor) heat up and melt insulation -> fan motor shorts out).

I run almost all of my fans 100%. In order to extend the life of them and to keep them running quieter I lube the fans with a light weight oil designed for high speed parts.... I use sewing maching oil, a trick I actually picked up here a while ago (peel back the sticker or remove the rubber plug from the fan hub, place a drop or two of oil in there, replace sticker)

[calvary1980]

I think it it will be ok, nVidia has these rated for x amount of hours.

- Christine

[tkpenalty]

I wouldn't worry about the fan giving up. I'd worry about the stress u would go through with the noise that that fan makes. Anyway instead invest in a new cooler...

[newtekie1]

It is fine to run the fan at 100%, but why not use Rivatuner to adjust the fan speed based on temperature?

I do that on my 8800GTS and 8800GS. I have them both set up as follows:

Fan 40%@50C
Fan 50%@55C
Fan 60%@60C
Fan 75%@65C
Fan 100%@70C

It is really easy to do using Rivatuner's Schedular and Launch Items.

[btarunr]

It is fine to run the fan at 100%, but why not use Rivatuner to adjust the fan speed based on temperature?

I do that on my 8800GTS and 8800GS. I have them both set up as follows:

Fan 40%@50C
Fan 50%@55C
Fan 60%@60C
Fan 75%@65C
Fan 100%@70C

It is really easy to do using Rivatuner's Schedular and Launch Items.

Yeah I'm thinking along those lines. How do I do that?

Edit: oh wait...got it.

[jtleon]

I'd say your temp problem has nothing to do with your fan.

I would bet your card's HS is not mating well with the GPU.

If I were you, I would separate the HS from the card and confirm good contact is achieved.

If not, then replace factory HS compound with better goop - say Arctic Silver 5, and carefully reassemble. Be sure to tighten all screws/nuts equally and in a diagonal pattern ensuring that the HS remains seated on the GPU die throughout the screw/nut torquing process.

Your fan should achieve atleast 10° of temp reduction when switching from 30% to 100% - all other things being equal. In your case, I see only 3° - no good! That tells me the problem is the thermal interface with the chip.

Regards,
jtleon

[btarunr]

What now?

http://img.techpowerup.org/080423/bta5.jpg

[CrackerJack]

I'd say your temp problem has nothing to do with your fan.

I would bet your card's HS is not mating well with the GPU.

If I were you, I would separate the HS from the card and confirm good contact is achieved.

If not, then replace factory HS compound with better goop - say Arctic Silver 5, and carefully reassemble. Be sure to tighten all screws/nuts equally and in a diagonal pattern ensuring that the HS remains seated on the GPU die throughout the screw/nut torquing process.

Your fan should achieve atleast 10° of temp reduction when switching from 30% to 100% - all other things being equal. In your case, I see only 3° - no good! That tells me the problem is the thermal interface with the chip.

Regards,
jtleon


if i was going to putting anymore compound on it. i would put MX-2 you'll get about a 5c drop. I got a 7c drop.

[btarunr]

Your fan should achieve atleast 10° of temp reduction when switching from 30% to 100% - all other things being equal. In your case, I see only 3° - no good! That tells me the problem is the thermal interface with the chip.

Regards,
jtleon

I have a ~15° C difference between 30% and 100% fan speeds. It's fresh out of the box. That 3° C you see is between 90% and 100%.

[AsRock]

Running a fan 100% all the time is not a good idea, all though it will depend on the quality of the fan too. Any chance you can find out who made the fan to see if you can find some MTTF lifeline.

But either way it's going wear out faster if it's going faster. If you find out it is a sleeve bearing i would reconmend not running it at full speed.

Maybe adding a fan to the bottom of your case to feed more air to the cooler that should help if the fan is high powered enough...

[JrRacinFan]

No offense BTA, buy a VF900 and call it a day. It's definitely not rrecommended, it will work for a while though, probably throughout the lifespan of the card. I know you, and you will more than likely trade outthe card before the fan takes a crap.

[HTC]

I have a ~15° C difference between 30% and 100% fan speeds. It's fresh out of the box. That 3° C you see is between 90% and 100%.

You mean it's @ ~71º C with normal fan speed? Isn't that too hot?

Don't know about 8800 temps but my 3870, with the fan @ 41% has a temp of 42º C. If i overclock like 877 / 1251, it makes the temp go up to ~72, with the fan @ 100%.

[btarunr]

You mean it's @ ~71º C with normal fan speed? Isn't that too hot?

Don't know about 8800 temps but my 3870, with the fan @ 41% has a temp of 42º C. If i overclock like 877 / 1251, it makes the temp go up to ~72, with the fan @ 100%.

We live in different parts of the world. It's summer here and 42° C is roughly the ambient temperature here.

No offense BTA, buy a VF900 and call it a day. It's definitely not rrecommended, it will work for a while though, probably throughout the lifespan of the card. I know you, and you will more than likely trade outthe card before the fan takes a crap.

I miss shopping at Fry's and my old G80 GTS 640M. That's where I got that cooler from.

[HTC]

We live in different parts of the world. It's summer here and 42° C is roughly the ambient temperature here.

You mean you're not next door? :laugh:

I see what you mean.

[newtekie1]

What now?

http://img.techpowerup.org/080423/bta5.jpg

Here is what I do(and you have to give me some slack because I am at work on my x800XL which doesn't have riva installed so this is all from memory).

Step 1) Create fan speed profiles for the different speeds you want the fan to run at. Do this in the "Low Level System Tweaks" window.
Step 2) Under the Launcher tab add each fan profile.
Step 3) Under the Scheduler tab add the fan profiles based on the core temperature changes. Make sure you create a schedule for both the up and down past the threshold. You want to tell it to launch and Item, not an application.

So mine looks like this:
Fan 40%@50C Upward
Fan 50%@55C Upward
Fan 60%@60C Upward
Fan 75%@65C Upward
Fan 100%@70C Upward
Fan 75%@70C Downward
Fan 60%@65C Downward
Fan 50%@60C Downward
Fan 40%@55C Downward

[jtleon]

I have a ~15° C difference between 30% and 100% fan speeds. It's fresh out of the box. That 3° C you see is between 90% and 100%.

Hmmm.....I see. It just appears that your no load temps at 30% fan are very excessive. I would expect no load temps to be in the low 50's, not over 65°C.

As you know, this GPU is the 65nm G92, and should run cooler than the G80.

I'd say your HS interface remains to be substandard.

100% fan operation greatly increases the static charge on your cards HSF - this will become a major dust magnet and will need cleaning more often.

Also, given this card has a single slot cooler, you will be circulating more hot air inside your case - putting other components under thermal stress.

Regards,
jtleon

[btarunr]

Here is what I do(and you have to give me some slack because I am at work on my x800XL which doesn't have riva installed so this is all from memory).

Step 1) Create fan speed profiles for the different speeds you want the fan to run at. Do this in the "Low Level System Tweaks" window.
Step 2) Under the Launcher tab add each fan profile.
Step 3) Under the Scheduler tab add the fan profiles based on the core temperature changes. Make sure you create a schedule for both the up and down past the threshold. You want to tell it to launch and Item, not an application.

So mine looks like this:
Fan 40%@50C Upward
Fan 50%@55C Upward
Fan 60%@60C Upward
Fan 75%@65C Upward
Fan 100%@70C Upward
Fan 75%@70C Downward
Fan 60%@65C Downward
Fan 50%@60C Downward
Fan 40%@55C Downward

Thanks, I configured it.

[btarunr]

Hmmm.....I see. It just appears that your no load temps at 30% fan are very excessive. I would expect no load temps to be in the low 50's, not over 65°C.


Yes, but this room is hot too. Next week with the AC fixed we can expect lower temps.

As you know, this GPU is the 65nm G92, and should run cooler than the G80.

I'd say your HS interface remains to be substandard.

Believe me, it's 100% NVidia reference cooler/PCB. In fact the PCB is thick and the card has a relatively old import date.....8-layer PCB. The cooler doesn't even have a manufacturer graphic sticker. I don't think there's anything sub-standard about the cooler as such.

100% fan operation greatly increases the static charge on your cards HSF - this will become a major dust magnet and will need cleaning more often.

With the whole unit earthed you still think a component can develop static charge?

Also, given this card has a single slot cooler, you will be circulating more hot air inside your case - putting other components under thermal stress.

I admit this machine needs better air flow. I removed the expansion slot cover above and below the slot in which this card is seated. The cooler tends to blow hot air to the north-west of the card though.

Sidewinder is not keeping good G92 cooling kits (dry) (kits= memory / MOSFET sinks, GPU cooler, TIM). I'm keeping an eye out though, I'll buy a kit soon.

[jtleon]

With the whole unit earthed you still think a component can develop static charge?

Did you add a ground strap from the HSF to the chassis? If not, then there is no electrical path to ground - Your HSF will collect dust rapidly - all do.

Regards,
jtleon

[btarunr]

Did you add a ground strap from the HSF to the chassis? If not, then there is no electrical path to ground - Your HSF will collect dust rapidly - all do.

Regards,
jtleon

The black cover over the heatsink is made of metal (and obviously in contact with the heatsink). This is in contact with the EMI covers of the DVI ports and hence grounded.

[jtleon]

The black cover over the heatsink is made of metal (and obviously in contact with the heatsink). This is in contact with the EMI covers of the DVI ports and hence grounded.

Grab a volt meter...Prove it to yourself....anodized coatings do not conduct!

Regards,
jtleon

[btarunr]

Regardless, the HSF is grounded. No point in the argument.

[Solaris17]

Its safe to leave it at 100% no problems as wolf said i personally think its worse to leave it on auto all the voltage fluxuation is going to stress components i left my 8600 fan on 100% for like 2 years it was fine never failed i say its all upto how much noise you can take i noticed the other day my machine is INCREDABLY loud but i have my 5:1 system cranked all day so it doesnt bug me much but it wont hurt the fan its all personal preference.

[btarunr]

Good explanation, that voltage fluctuation is bad for a motor. About noise, I use a pair of Creative HN-601. Active noise cancellation....shameless way of being a Creative fanboy.

[jtleon]

Regardless, the HSF is grounded. No point in the argument.

You cannot prove the HSF is grounded! 100% fan will build static charge dramatically.

You asked what is the problem with 24/7 100% conditions - I responded in kind.

jtleon

[twicksisted]

You cannot prove the HSF is grounded! 100% fan will build static charge dramatically.

You asked what is the problem with 24/7 100% conditions - I responded in kind.

jtleon

Surely being attached to the PSU its grounded? as the power to the card is coming from the Mobo & PSU and thats grounded.

[btarunr]

Wait I see a point. While the card is grounded for sure, the fan itself is made of ABS plastic. It can gain a flux from the motor. Yes, in that way it's valid. And the plastic portion of the fan doesn't come in contact with ground, it's suspended.

[jtleon]

Wait I see a point. While the card is grounded for sure, the fan itself is made of ABS plastic. It can gain a flux from the motor. Yes, in that way it's valid. And the plastic portion of the fan doesn't come in contact with ground, it's suspended.

Now you are thinking!

However...fan motor power cables are DC power supplied to a coil, with no dedicated ground. Card manufacturers intentionally do not ground HSF components to the chassis, otherwise any static charge that might contact the HSF will zap the chassis and all components attached.

This is to protect your entire computer. Perhaps you have heard of a ground loop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

Therefore 24/7 100% operation is going to draw in the dust - given your efforts to increase case flow.

Regards,
jtleon

[Solaris17]

Now you are thinking!

However...fan motor power cables are DC power supplied to a coil, with no dedicated ground. Card manufacturers intentionally do not ground HSF components to the chassis, otherwise any static charge that might contact the HSF will zap the chassis and all components attached.

This is to protect your entire computer. Perhaps you have heard of a ground loop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

Therefore 24/7 100% operation is going to draw in the dust - given your efforts to increase case flow.

Regards,
jtleon

im sorry that was THEE most impresive post i have read in quite a long time very informative here is a cookie (:; ) <--cookie

[btarunr]

Now you are thinking!

Card manufacturers intentionally do not ground HSF components to the chassis, otherwise any static charge that might contact the HSF will zap the chassis and all components attached.

Zap the chassis? But the chassis is grounded, how would it zap? Besides, I don't think charges made by the fan could zap anything except draw in dust, good observation though.

[hat]

When I want to fool with my bios I use nvflash. I copy nvflash to my bootable USB drive and do this:
nflash -b bios (or bios.rom if just using bios gives you problems. I'm not sure, it doesn't matter. If you use bios.rom the worst that can happen is you'll get a weird filename like bios.rom.rom)

And boot back into Windows. My USB drive will have the BIOS on it. Then I use nibitor to edit whatever, save it to the bios file you just got, then boot off the USB drive again. You may want to make a copy of the origional bios and edit that so you have an origional for backup and a modified one.

So now with my modified bios on my usb drive (let's say it's modifiedbios.rom) I boot back into the USB drive and type:
nvflash modifiedbios.rom

Then you now have a video card with a modified bios.