8800GT 256mb vs 8800GS 384mb

[Xazax]

8800GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150278


8800GS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150275

ina Pickle here, need a new GFX around 100~ as my HD 3850 didnt pan out so well.... but im stuck! the 8800GS and the 8800GT 256mb are same price and free shipping, i know for fact the 8800GT is better but i heard 256mb is plagued by AA problems? has this been fixed? will the 8800GS' bit more Memory(and OCing) make up for it?

And if anyone can point me to a review please do.

[DaedalusHelios]

get a 9600gt 512mb. ;)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121229R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814145151

[Xazax]

Idk, XFX has been alrite.. and considering its a 100 after MIR and free shipping :/ the 9600GT is good but i dont like ASUS and ive never heard of Chaintech?

[hat]

FYI xfx's warranty covers overclocking and changing coolers.

[Xazax]

Yea as well a modding and a double LT warranty. I tend to like XFX's card had a 7900Gt and a decent Experience with there RMA services with it.

But point remains.. does the 256mb 8800GT still suffer from the AA?

[DaedalusHelios]

Yea as well a modding and a double LT warranty. I tend to like XFX's card had a 7900Gt and a decent Experience with there RMA services with it.

But point remains.. does the 256mb 8800GT still suffer from the AA?

Yes. Only because the GPU is starved by low Vram capacity. But the 8800gs isn't that much better unless its in SLI.... then it does alot better I have heard.:)

PS. OC the piss out of the 8800gs and its alot better between the two when comparing both OC'ed.

[Xazax]

Yea, ive owned an XFX 8800GS in SLI but ended trading each one out :/ was leaning more towards the 8800GT the only two games i Play Sins Of a Solar Empire and Company Of heroes really @ 1280x1024... O.. and MS Powerpoint ;)

[DaedalusHelios]

Yea, ive owned an XFX 8800GS in SLI but ended trading each one out :/ was leaning more towards the 8800GT the only two games i Play Sins Of a Solar Empire and Company Of heroes really... O.. and MS Powerpoint ;)

What resolution?

[DrunkenMafia]

Yeah what ^ he said man, 256mb just isn't enough memory on the 8800GT, as you can see from the reviews on here. unless your gaming at 1024x768 then 256 is plenty. I would def go for the 9600GT otherwise save a couple more bucks for something else.

Sorry just had a look on the egg and the 9600gt is around the $150 mark and you can also grab a HD3870 for around the same price..

If you are really stuck at around the $100 mark then the 8800GS would be the way to go I reckon.

[smig]

all benchmarks show very low performance for the 8800 series with 256mb only.

you can also try to look for a 9600GSO 786mb. it's the same GPU as the 8800GS, but with planty of ram it performs almost as good as the 8800GT 512mb, at much lower price.

[calvary1980]

if you have a monitor of 19" or lower the 8800GT 256 will outperform the 8800GS 384. that specific XFX model is great it has an aluminum plate and double life-time warranty.

- Christine

[Xazax]

Montior Res is 1280x1024 so hence why im leaning towards it

[Palit_Guy]

FYI xfx's warranty covers overclocking and changing coolers.

Um, are you sure?

XFX's liability under the Double Lifetime Protection is limited to the repair, or, at XFX's discretion, the replacement of the portion(s) of the Product that are found to be defective in material or workmanship. XFX reserves the right to claim shipping fees as well as a service charge* for any incomplete or modified Product that is returned and that requires repair or replacement, or when the Owner is not entitled to any coverage under the XFX Double Lifetime Protection.

They also have some fine print at the bottom...

* Service charge is variable based upon actual material costs to repair or replace missing or modified parts to return them to original factory condition.

I'm not trying to speak for XFX but I don't think that any video card company is going to cover warranty of a card that has been modded in such a way that they can tell it's been modded.

[calvary1980]

it's true and that print is mostly hidden service fee's like any other vendor. they encourage volt modding they will even service you if you don't register the DLTW after the 30 days of purchasing the product.

- Christine

[Palit_Guy]

I don't see anywhere they ask or encourage anyone to solder on their card and they will fix it if it gets messed up.

[calvary1980]

of course it doesn't say that. but they do accept over volted cards via soft (Pencil, Bios)

- Christine

[Palit_Guy]

And so does everyone else. It also helps if you wipe off the pencil marks when you send in the card. It also isn't SOP to check the BIOS on a card when it comes back in with most companies so normally they wouldn't even know.

[calvary1980]

the alpha dog is too powerful for cyborg frog maybe Palit should change the OEM Sticker to a Shark with freaken Laser Beam attached to there head. http://web.mit.edu/yermie/www/images/shark%20laserbeam.jpg

you and XFX_Guy should get together and you know "wrestle" :laugh:

- Christine

[eidairaman1]

stick with the GT

[eidairaman1]

of course it doesn't say that. but they do accept over volted cards via soft (Pencil, Bios)

- Christine

No Company Accepts Modified Cards, best bet is to remove all mods before doing such.

If the card is under warranty, best bet is to not modify it, otherwise you should know the consequences of modifying, if you dont want to spend money to replace the board dont modify it until the warranty is done.

[calvary1980]

XFX also boasts a true lifetime warranty, and taking it one step further, you can transfer the backing to a second owner. For frequent upgraders that sell off their used equipment, XFX's Double Lifetime Warranty, as it's dubbed, makes for a great marketing bullet on EBay or trading forums. And in a move to remain competitive on paper, as of April 17th, XFX now also allows end users to overclock the card and replace the heatsink/fan assembly. Unfortunately, they've also adopted the same vexatious 30-day registration policy and accompanying penalty for non-compliance as EVGA.

I guess your right, still modders choice and a good warranty :)

- Christine

[eidairaman1]

other point being if you do replace the Fansink, keep the other around for RMA.

[Palit_Guy]

Where did that come from?

[eidairaman1]

previous post before mine, i dont care what a company says about Replacing Fans, Keep the Other around for RMA purposes.

[hat]

Um, are you sure?



They also have some fine print at the bottom...



I'm not trying to speak for XFX but I don't think that any video card company is going to cover warranty of a card that has been modded in such a way that they can tell it's been modded.

http://www.xfxforce.com/web/support/showWarranty.jspa?regionId=1&productGenerationId=730964
Even for those of you who know how to push our cards to the limits, if anything goes wrong, we’ll service it free of charge.

[wolf2009]

lets get back to topic , at $100 get a 8800GS with 384MB VRAM or the 768MB RAM 9600GSO (if that's around $100, i think palit is launching that, Palit_Guy needs to comment on this ). At $100 8800GS is better than 8800GT 256 MB . 8800GT 256MB fails badly in some games with or without AA .

[Palit_Guy]

Wow. I'm not sure what to say other than wow.

That has to be the most misleading statement I've ever seen online. It is in direct conflict with the actual warranty statement which says...

XFX's liability under the Double Lifetime Protection is limited to the repair, or, at XFX's discretion, the replacement of the portion(s) of the Product that are found to be defective in material or workmanship.

[Palit_Guy]

lets get back to topic , at $100 get a 8800GS with 384MB VRAM or the 768MB RAM 9600GSO (if that's around $100, i think palit is launching that, Palit_Guy needs to comment on this ). At $100 8800GS is better than 8800GT 256 MB . 8800GT 256MB fails badly in some games with or without AA .

While there are some exceptions, I don't typically recommend a 256MB card for any gamer.

I'm in the San Jose office all week this week so I will get pricing info while I'm there.

[trt740]

http://www.xfxforce.com/web/support/showWarranty.jspa?regionId=1&productGenerationId=730964
Warranty wise XFX has the best bar none . Then EVGA surely no one can disagree with that. Palit is a great company but their warranty is nothing great. Just as MSI warranty is not great either. It is not bad either but XFX has the best.

[calvary1980]

8800GT 256-Bit Bus and 112 Shaders makes it superior in benchmarks. a piece of canada for you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pozlp_wnkRk&feature=related :laugh:

- Christine

[newconroer]

Erm, we're talking about a GPU here, what would it matter who you choose (unless considering warranty) i.e. why not Asus etc?

Also, what Palit guy really needs to tell us, is what the engineers over at Palit really think about the usage of the 8800GTX, 8800 512GTS and the 9800GTX.

With more and more people going up into the 1600+ resolution, is the extra VRAM on the 8800GTX worth the price that they still sit at? Which is almost more expensive than a 512 GTS? Or is the texture fill and purging capabilities of the 9800 enough to outdo the GTX at high resolutions?

A lot of tests are run on games like first person shooters, or RTS, though in my experience, with exception to a few titles, like say Crysis, MMOs that tout even a slight amount of high level visuals, are the worst dogs of all when it comes to performance.

EQ2, LOTRO and AOC can bring cards to their knees REAL fast. It's understood that they have some piss-poor coding at times, but that's besides the point to some degree.

[trt740]

Erm, we're talking about a GPU here, what would it matter who you choose (unless considering warranty) i.e. why not Asus etc?

Also, what Palit guy really needs to tell us, is what the engineers over at Palit really think about the usage of the 8800GTX, 8800 512GTS and the 9800GTX.

With more and more people going up into the 1600+ resolution, is the extra VRAM on the 8800GTX worth the price that they still sit at? Which is almost more expensive than a 512 GTS? Or is the texture fill and purging capabilities of the 9800 enough to outdo the GTX at high resolutions?

A lot of tests are run on games like first person shooters, or RTS, though in my experience, with exception to a few titles, like say Crysis, MMOs that tout even a slight amount of high level visuals, are the worst dogs of all when it comes to performance.

EQ2, LOTRO and AOC can bring cards to their knees REAL fast. It's understood that they have some piss-poor coding at times, but that's besides the point to some degree.

good question true dat :rockout:

[Palit_Guy]

Warranty wise XFX has the best bar none . Then EVGA surely no one can disagree with that. Palit is a great company but their warranty is nothing great. Just as MSI warranty is not great either. It is not bad either but XFX has the best.

Thanks!

I'm going to bring this up in our meetings next week.

[trt740]

Thanks!

I'm going to bring this up in our meetings next week.

You see this is what makes Palit stand above the rest Exactly what he is doing :rockout::respect: They actually want your business and are working for it. This type of thing makes people loyal to a company. Besides the fact Palit makes great stuff.

[Palit_Guy]

Erm, we're talking about a GPU here, what would it matter who you choose (unless considering warranty) i.e. why not Asus etc?

Also, what Palit guy really needs to tell us, is what the engineers over at Palit really think about the usage of the 8800GTX, 8800 512GTS and the 9800GTX.

With more and more people going up into the 1600+ resolution, is the extra VRAM on the 8800GTX worth the price that they still sit at? Which is almost more expensive than a 512 GTS? Or is the texture fill and purging capabilities of the 9800 enough to outdo the GTX at high resolutions?

A lot of tests are run on games like first person shooters, or RTS, though in my experience, with exception to a few titles, like say Crysis, MMOs that tout even a slight amount of high level visuals, are the worst dogs of all when it comes to performance.

EQ2, LOTRO and AOC can bring cards to their knees REAL fast. It's understood that they have some piss-poor coding at times, but that's besides the point to some degree.

So there are definitely some differences between Palit designed cards and most of what everyone else is putting out. If you are building a reference design card the only thing that really varies is the heatsink.

As for what things we specifically change from the reference design...

Some of our cards feature three-phase power. Since we introduced that you can now find other companies have implemented it in a couple cards as well. Basically that feature allows for a higher OC and for it to run more stable when it's overclocked.

We also feature some pretty heavy duty heatsinks. There have always been a couple options for people to choose from but only on products that have been in the market for a long time and have established themselves as solid sellers.

The third thing we've done deserves its own post....

[Palit_Guy]

1GB of RAM

I've said this so many times I think I can type it with my eyes closed.


Almost everyone knows that an 8800GT 512MB out benches an 8800GT 1GB in all but a couple not really relevant benchmarks like Crysis at 25x16. In that example it still doesn't produce a really playable framerate so I don't really count that as a win.

What gets me is the number of people who call themselves enthusiasts that advise people there is no reason to buy one because of that.

So here's the deal. If you are going to replace your video card now and again within 12 months, buy the 512MB version. If you are going to keep your card for as long as you can, but the 1GB version.

I remember a time when the most RAM you could get on a card was 32MB. Then we started seeing some 64MB versions. It took some time before the value of the 64MB made itself apparent. A fundamentally large increase in memory requires game developers to change the way they code their game so that it can take advantage of that extra memory space.

Palit has released a 1GB version of EVERY current NV=based card; 8500, 8600, 8800 and 9600. We will continue to produce 1GB versions of every card except those NV specifically says not to like the 9800GX2 and some of the upcoming new releases.

Until video game developers see that there is a reasonable number of 1GB cards IN USE, they aren't going to change their code.

Furthermore, and I will be reiterating this with NV on Monday and Tuesday, any game developer that needs 1GB cards so they can get their code up to speed will be provided as many as they need by Palit at no cost.

I just don't know what else Palit can do to push the industry along.

So the advantage to a 1GB card isn't really visible today. But, without exception, the amount of RAM on video cards has been increasing since they were invented and as new games are developed they are coded to take advantage of that.

If you think that game developers will not be writing games to take advantage of 1GB of RAM before you would like to buy a new video card, there is no reason for you to buy a 1GB version. RAM has doubled on video cards about every 18 months for the last decade- 4,8,16,32,64,128,256 and 512- and Mr. Obvious says it's going to continue to do so since there is a tangible benefit in it.

[calvary1980]

I would purchase the 8800 GTS for 1600x and above it can be volt moded to a GTX I still think this is the best card on the market.

- Christine

[Ptosio]

I still don't get all that 1GB stuff...
You never can foreseen future in the IT industry and buying card that is slower and more expensive now (but some say it will be slighty better after 2 years or so) is just plain wrong. And BTW putting gigs of RAM on all the cards doesn't make sense anyway. It's nothing more than just misleading consumers. Some chips just don't and won't ever use such a huge amount of memory and this is clearly visible. Let's have a look on the Nvidia's GeForce 8 series:
G92 (e.g 8800GT) is a well-performing chip, capable pof using half a gig of RAM. It becomes obvious when we test the stripped-down 256 MB version of it and see a significant frame drop. The conclusion is simple: current games do use up to 512 MB VRAM and G92 can make good use of it.
Given that, let's look at the lower-end cards based on G84 chip. It usually comes with 256 MB of RAM, but you cant get a 512 MB version as well. How does the latter perfom? Unfortunately, not much better than the 256 MB version. Keep in mind that games can use more memory which we heve proven above. G84 just can't make any good use of it. Do you really think that you can improve the performence by adding another 512 MB? I don't think so. You can put 4 GB of RAM on 8500GT and it still wouldn't be better gaming card than 256 MB version (hell, with this card even 128 should do). It's almost certain that it's gonna be the same with 8800GT. By the time the 1GB would be ubiquetous, GPU wouldn't be good enough to take advantage of having it.
Sure, amount of onboard memory increases and this a good thing, but only if the chip evolves as well. GF 6 series needs more RAM than FX series, 7 series needs more RAM than 6 etc. That's the way it should be.
Anather drowbac of using enormous quanity of memory is its quality. Memory costs and better memory costs more. Price of card must be kept as low as possible, otherwise noone with brain would buy it (Radeon 3850 with 256 MB would always be the better gaming performer than 8600GT, even if the letter got 4 Gigs of extra quality RAM). 256 megabytes of GDDR3 get replaced by 1024 MB of GDDR2 which results in performance drop. It's that simple.

So please, don't try to tell us that you're "pushing the industry along" by putting 1024MB on 8500GT. In fact, you're ruining it. Think of all of that newbie guys who have just bought a new PC from BestBuy with a "monster" 1024 MB video card (I think that's the sole reason you make them: 1 GB looks gorgeous on ads). He brings it to his home, turns it on, starts some game...and gets constant frame drops. Then he thinks "Gee, I've got a 1 Gig video card and I still can't play my games? This sukcs! I'm gonna stick with XBOX". All that mess that you (though it's not only Palit, of course) and Nvidia do with naming schemes discourages people from gaming on their PCs by making them think it's too complicated. It raises only confusion, nothing more.

[smig]

1GB of RAM
an 8800GT 512MB out benches an 8800GT 1GB in all but a couple not really relevant benchmarks

????
not a tipo ????

:confused:



I remember a time when the most RAM you could get on a card was 32MB


LOL, you'r young.
my first card had 256kb :D

[smig]

I do agree with Ptosio in many points:
there is a lot of confusion and most sellers use it to sell crapy cards.
newbie guys will prefer buying a 8300 with a lot of RAM rather then 7800 one.
There is realy no need to put more RAM on the low end card, or even on mid range cards if it won't make any performance improvement.

[Ptosio]

Ha! Palit is no more on the leading edge! Gecube has recently announced 2 GB (!) version of Radeons 38x0. How would you comment that:)?

[Palit_Guy]

Ha! Palit is no more on the leading edge! Gecube has recently announced 2 GB (!) version of Radeons 38x0. How would you comment that:)?

I'm still in San Jose so i have to be brief. I'll try to get back in here over the weekend when I get back.

Asus has also announced some 1GB versions as well but that doesn't mean you can buy them. Most companies have announced they have the 9600GSO but those aren't available yet. They can announce all they want. I'll get excited when I see one.

We both build and sell VERY few 8500GT 1GB parts so it really is more of a claim than anything else.

As for the overall value of 1GB, i'm going to break NDA a little and talk about Age of Conan. It's the only example I have right now so they will just have to get mad at me.

Their game engine allows you to control the draw distance of the game. The enine also has an extremely high allowance for video memory. I'll leave it to them to say how much it "can" use but I will tell you it's way more than 1GB.

The immediate advantage to the 1GB card is that if you would like to see a really nice draw distance but only have a 512MB card, your framerate will be in the crapper because you will never stop loading textures since you've asked for more data than the VRAm can hold.

I'm beta testing the game now and am in constant contact with the developers. I've tested this game on 256, 512 and 1GB cards and I am anxiously awaiting the May 20 launch of the game so that I can share the screen shots with everyone and get a litle "I told you so" action going with all the folks that think no one will ever need more than 512MB of vram.

I understand that this is only one game that takes advantage of it now. But I have never said anything other than the 1GB solution will show it's benefits later down the road. But we should also bear in mind Funcom has been working on AoC for well over four years. That is long before Palit (or anyone else) even thought about a 1GB card.

We should also take away from this that if AoC can do it, they aren't likely to be the only company to do so.

So to everyone who says that 1GB will not be relevant on a video card within the next 18 months I would like to be very clear on our position. Simply put, these folks don't know what they are talking about and have no understanding of the history of the graphics industry.

The best advice I can give anyone is to consider WHEN the games they play will be able to use it and how long they think it will be before new games need it. Compare that to how long you want to keep your card and do what makes sense for you.

I have never said that any 1GB card is the best solution. It really depends on what you want out of your computer and what you think will happen with the gaming industry over time.

I should be out of these crazy meetings and back in my ofice on Saturday afternoon at which point I'll check back in this thread to see any responses.

[ShogoXT]

I saw a video of the ID guys showing their new Tech5 video. They say it uses like over 30gb of texture memory (might be 20 something i cant remember). Do you have a video card for that? :P But if it is a the case that more games use 1gb of memory then this 2900xt will hopefully show some good stuff there.

I recommend the 9600GT 512MB also for the OP. Why is it that the 9600GT option is not available to you? ALSO I believe the 9600GSO is the 8800GS with just a bios flash. On top of that if you ever get a SLI board ive seen the 9600GT scale amazingly in SLI.

[eidairaman1]

Ha! Palit is no more on the leading edge! Gecube has recently announced 2 GB (!) version of Radeons 38x0. How would you comment that:)?

GeCube sucks as a Company to support their own parts, you are best to stay away just like Mad Dog.

[ShogoXT]

Just messing around on the texture memory thing as I know its not all front loaded. Found some possible options for you. I tend to go for the cheaper option if it looks like they are reference design.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814145151
Free remote too.

May I ask what was your issue with the 3850? They are under $100 now...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131096

After rebate of course.

[ShogoXT]

GeCube sucks as a Company to support their own parts, you are best to stay away just like Mad Dog.

I wish I knew that before I had a Mad Dog Geforce 4.... Its one of the reason why im ATI for life...

[eidairaman1]

Maximum PC Dog did a interrogation into someones claim and it appears that Mad Dog is a dying breed in all product lines- warranty wise, I have a USB Floppy drive from them.

[Ptosio]

My main point is not about game engines being unable to take advantge of hude amount of RAM (though this is an obvious problem). It's about GPUs that don't have enough power to use that memory. I've proved it in the post above, but I can do it once more:
Fact 1: Current games can use up to 512 MB of VRAM. Significant frame drops on a 256 MB version of 8800GT is a clear evidence of that statement.
Fact 2: 8600GT 512 MB is no faster than 8600GT 256 MB.

By induction, we can say that some cards cannot use that amount of memory even if the game engine supports it and hence the same would apply for 1 GB of RAM. Conclusion: Buying today's graphics cards (especially the weak ones) with 1 GB of RAM makes no sense.QED.

It could be more reasonable for the strongest graphic cards on market...but there are neither 8800GTSes(512:P) nor 9800GTXes with 1 GB of RAM. 1 GB will be a good choice only when we get the next gen GPUs from ATI or NVIDIA.

[Palit_Guy]

My main point is not about game engines being unable to take advantge of hude amount of RAM (though this is an obvious problem). It's about GPUs that don't have enough power to use that memory. I've proved it in the post above, but I can do it once more:
Fact 1: Current games can use up to 512 MB of VRAM. Significant frame drops on a 256 MB version of 8800GT is a clear evidence of that statement.
Fact 2: 8600GT 512 MB is no faster than 8600GT 256 MB.

By induction, we can say that some cards cannot use that amount of memory even if the game engine supports it and hence the same would apply for 1 GB of RAM. Conclusion: Buying today's graphics cards (especially the weak ones) with 1 GB of RAM makes no sense.QED.

It could be more reasonable for the strongest graphic cards on market...but there are neither 8800GTSes(512:P) nor 9800GTXes with 1 GB of RAM. 1 GB will be a good choice only when we get the next gen GPUs from ATI or NVIDIA.

Sorry Ptosio but that's not true about the 8600 (Fact 2). Check out this review- http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=33&page=6

In every game under different testing methods we saw that 512MB does make a difference, and in some cases a large one. Quake 4’s performance increases in Ultra mode were the most impressive here, but HL2: Lost Coast also showed some credible boosts. F.E.A.R was not so impressive but in real world testing 512Mb showed its worth, especially on a system with 1GB RAM.

Here's another one- http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM4OSw3LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

The biggest problem in trying to evaluate this is the lack of games written to take advantage of more RAM. Of course a faster card will add a performance increase and will be even better at using more memory but until a game exists that really utilizes up to a GB of Vram, it's really difficult to have this conversation.

[hayder.master]

for me i chose the 8800gt 265 cuz i see the have no problem with games if have a poweful gpu that for me cuz i like the game moving fast without any stops , that for me

[DaedalusHelios]

for me i chose the 8800gt 265 cuz i see the have no problem with games if have a poweful gpu that for me cuz i like the game moving fast without any stops , that for me

I don't see how the ultra dribble 2 that you list in your system specs, will help your graphics card. :laugh:

[hayder.master]

I don't see how the ultra dribble 2 that you list in your system specs, will help your graphics card. :laugh:


it is work perfect maybe more than your 2x 9600 i am play crisis on xp with 1024*760 all sitting high with 8xAA
with vista play crisis with 1280*1024 all sitting very high with no AA
if you don't have knowledge in ultra durable 2 see my thread http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=59609

and you must know the ultra durable 2 more performance than other one by 10% try to search in hothardware