Critique my new (proposed) system! (high end)

[germs]

The hardware (which I plan to overclock):

Motherboard: P5E3 PREMIUM/WIFI-AP @n LGA 775 DDR3 Intel X48 ATX Intel http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131276

RAM: 4 gigs total, so 2x G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 [7-7-7-18 timing] (PC3 10600) 1.65V Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231178

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Yorkfield 2.66GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115042&Tpk=q9450

Hard drives: An old 250 gig for backup and 3x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3750330AS 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148298

DVD drive: ASUS ASUS Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 14X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16827135156

Graphics card: Nvidia 8800 Ultra (which I already own, but will replace the stock cooler eventually with something else) Link for those interested: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130346

Case: SILVERSTONE TJ10-BW Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163089

Heatsink: I wanted a Thermalright ultra 120 extreme, but I think it is just too heavy for my mobo to handle, considering this computer will be taken on about 10+ flights every year. However, (based on this really old Anandtech article http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=3005&p=6), after looking several of the highest rated heatsinks they were all (expectedly) very heavy. A problem, because I am aiming this system at quietness.

So I really need a little advice on this one, though I know I'm going to overclock and attach as many 120mm fans as I can to the heatsink.

OS: Windows XP Pro 64 bit

Thermal paste: Arctic silver 5, which I have as well.

I have a few other concerns however... Most of the stuff I'm buying is listed as retail, rather than OEM (like the motherboard), does that matter?

Also, I'm having a hard time deciding what fans to get. I've heard great things about Scythe fans, and because I'm trying to make this case as quiet as possible, they seem to be a good choice for both 80mm and 120mm.

And finally, is this a smart build? Feedback about anything is appriciated. I know some of the stuff is overpriced (ie TJ10), but I'm willing to pay.

Thanks! :)

[blkhogan]

Missing something? No power supply listed ;) Going to get a little heavy traveling with that bad boy. That Silverstone case is a nice one, but weighs almost 30lbs empty

[Wile E]

Get this for a cooler. Outperforms the TRUE. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233003

[germs]

Oops, forgot to list the PSU. Knew I was forgetting something...

PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower W0172RU 850W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB, CE, FCC, TUV, cUL http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153062

Hopefully it has enough amps. Not sure where/how to check that. Looking into that heatsink now...

[germs]

Checked out the heatsink, it is 600g, which is higher than the 500g limit I read on anandtech. It seems that all heatsinks weight over 500g though, so I assume I have to pick one. Like I said though, this will be a case that gets mvoed around a lot, so I'm hoping I wont break my $370 motherboard.

Anyone have any real sucess suspending it via wires or some such thing?

By the way, what is the TRUE?

[trog100]

the 45nm chip might run cooler than u think.. there might not be any need for the biggest baddest heaviest cooler u can imagine.. or tons of fans..

trog

ps.. also a lower flatter type cooler will put less stress on the mobo than a taller tower type one..

[jonmcc33]

...considering this computer will be taken on about 10+ flights every year.

Spare yourself the misery. Get a laptop.

[KBD]

600g cooler should be fine, just move your case carefully. If you want a lighter alternative consider a Zalman 9500, its around 525g, i own this cooler its not the baddest but does the job and i move my case to clean it and its fine. Also, there is the Thermalright Ultima-90 at 460g, but you have to buy a 120mm/92mm fan for it which adds around 100-120g more to the weight, but this thing is a great performer coming close to it's bigger brother the Ultra 120 in terms of coolling.

Congrats on the case, BTW. I have the similar TJ-09BW and its awesome, though wire management is it's only drawback.

Good luck.

Edit: didn't see that you are going to take this on a planee with you 10 times a year. Get a a much smaller case like Thermaltake lanbox or a small mi-tower. TJ-10 is too big for that.

Edit 2: the 7200.11 gets beat by Samsung F1 and WD Se16, Velociraptor is on the way as well, if you gonna stick to your high end build specs get one of those & run em in raid 0

[farlex85]

No the se16s are actually faster, and the egg has 640gb version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218) for $99 right now. But yeah the veloci would be sick, $600 on hdds though..........

[KBD]

You mean WD Se16 is faster than Samsung F1 or they are equal performers?

I'm waiting for velociraptor to drop their prices a bit and then i'll grab a couple :D

[farlex85]

You mean WD Se16 is faster than Samsung F1 or they are equal performers?

I'm waiting for velociraptor to drop their prices a bit and then i'll grab a couple :D

I mean that 640gb se16 is faster than samsung F1s or barracuda 7200.11s. Yeah, I don't know how much those velocis will come down though. They are roughly the same price as the raptor x in $/gigabyte, actually a little less. So........

[exodusprime1337]

why would you take a desktop pc on a plane like that, i can almost guarentee you that they thow your pc on the ground like 8 times the first time you fly and destroy that pc. Get a laptop.

[farlex85]

why would you take a desktop pc on a plane like that, i can almost guarentee you that they thow your pc on the ground like 8 times the first time you fly and destroy that pc. Get a laptop.

What??!! So he should buy a laptop from a local retailer that costs way more for less performance instead of buying parts that have to be shipped? And do you think those laptops are not also shipped on a plane sometimes? Thats not very good logic (unless you were just joking)......

[KBD]

I think he is saying to get a lappy to take with him on the plane to use during flight, not to check it in. Though i haven't flown for years and don't know how things work with airflights these days.

[farlex85]

I think he is saying to get a lappy to take with him on the plane to use during flight, not to check it in. Though i haven't flown for years and don't know how things work with airflights these days.

Huh, I didn't see anything about a plane from the op, that makes sense though.

[freaksavior]

Oops, forgot to list the PSU. Knew I was forgetting something...

PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower W0172RU 850W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB, CE, FCC, TUV, cUL http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153062

Hopefully it has enough amps. Not sure where/how to check that. Looking into that heatsink now...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=50002031+40000058+113142559&StoreType=7&CompareItemList=N82E16817256011%2cN82E16817256022&bop=And

get one of those. either 64a (2 x 35a rails) or one 70a rail for the other.

The thermaltake has 62a

[Namslas90]

Huh, I didn't see anything about a plane from the op, that makes sense though.

Excerpt from original post;

...considering this computer will be taken on about 10+ flights every year...

Might want to think about running a bead of hotglue or silicon adhesive connecting the cards and Ram to the sockets (etc), to reduce the possability of vibrations during flight operations from shaking things loose.

This is a common practice used by some "pre-built" computer companies to verify claims against warranty, but would probably be a good choice in this situation.

You could also use adhesive to help secure a Motherboard with an overly heavy cooler to the motherboard tray.

Not sure how much space you will have available on these flight, but may want to look into a HTPC or "shuttle" type case so the motherboard is laying down to reduce the chances of vibrations causing issues/problems.

[germs]

"Edit 2: the 7200.11 gets beat by Samsung F1 and WD Se16, Velociraptor is on the way as well, if you gonna stick to your high end build specs get one of those & run em in raid 0"

Do you have the numbers on that (would be interested in the exact performance differences)? I was just curious, I heard that HDD cache only makes a difference when gaming, which I will be doing about half the time. The F1 and 7200.11 have 32mb Caches, as opposed to the WDs 16mb.

Also, after looking into raid 0, I heard a lot of people say that it actually slows down a lot of things, and as a result it would be better to have HDDs for different types of files (OS, games, applications, ect). Made sense because the spindles could all be reading different things at different times.

Also, 640GB isn't something I'd go for at this time, only 750GB models. Is the 750GB equivalent as fast?

"http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...256022&bop=And

"get one of those. either 64a (2 x 35a rails) or one 70a rail for the other.

"The thermaltake has 62a"

Thanks. I am definately going with the single rail PSU you posted. My only concern is that I live about half a mile from the ocean (~900m or so)... will that cause the modular cable connections to corrode or some such thing?

I was thinking: with a Thermalright ultra 120 extreme (790g without the fan, probably around 910g with it), couldn't I just suspend it via copper wiring from the top of my case? I have a very handy uncle that could help me get the job done right; I don't mind some wire krazy glued to the top of my case (inside).

And for the flight, a southwest representative told me that I can put anything in the compartment above the seats, as long as it fits. I hope she is correct.

[Wile E]

"Edit 2: the 7200.11 gets beat by Samsung F1 and WD Se16, Velociraptor is on the way as well, if you gonna stick to your high end build specs get one of those & run em in raid 0"

Do you have the numbers on that (would be interested in the exact performance differences)? I was just curious, I heard that HDD cache only makes a difference when gaming, which I will be doing about half the time. The F1 and 7200.11 have 32mb Caches, as opposed to the WDs 16mb.

Also, after looking into raid 0, I heard a lot of people say that it actually slows down a lot of things, and as a result it would be better to have HDDs for different types of files (OS, games, applications, ect). Made sense because the spindles could all be reading different things at different times.

Also, 640GB isn't something I'd go for at this time, only 750GB models. Is the 750GB equivalent as fast?

"http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...256022&bop=And

"get one of those. either 64a (2 x 35a rails) or one 70a rail for the other.

"The thermaltake has 62a"

Thanks. I am definately going with the single rail PSU you posted. My only concern is that I live about half a mile from the ocean (~900m or so)... will that cause the modular cable connections to corrode or some such thing?

I was thinking: with a Thermalright ultra 120 extreme (790g without the fan, probably around 910g with it), couldn't I just suspend it via copper wiring from the top of my case? I have a very handy uncle that could help me get the job done right; I don't mind some wire krazy glued to the top of my case (inside).

And for the flight, a southwest representative told me that I can put anything in the compartment above the seats, as long as it fits. I hope she is correct.

The TRUE is an acronym for the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme. The Xigmatech cooler I posted beats it easily. Even the 92mm version of the Xigmatech cooler matches the TRUE. As for weight, it weighs in at 466g with the fan. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233014

I wouldn't worry about corrosion on the modular cables. They're only as likely to corrode as your wall sockets, for example.

[germs]

The TRUE is an acronym for the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme. The Xigmatech cooler I posted beats it easily. Even the 92mm version of the Xigmatech cooler matches the TRUE. As for weight, it weighs in at 466g with the fan. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233014

I wouldn't worry about corrosion on the modular cables. They're only as likely to corrode as your wall sockets, for example.

Sounds pretty good. The only problem is that I can't find a site that does a comparison between the two. Where did you manage to find info on them (comparitavely)?

I was thinking though, even with the TRUE, and a 120mm scythe fan, I could avoid damage to the motherboard by attaching a copper plate or two to the side window of the case to support it, right? Put into position/mounted when the motherboard is in the case horizontally, then set to stand up at all other times, or by a metal plate similar to how some new cases have supports for graphics cards (just maccguyvered to my needs). Is this a good idea? Like I said, my uncle is extremely handy, and something like this shouldn't be too hard for us to do.

Also, thanks for the clarification on the cables.

[DrPepper]

If I was taking my pc on a flight I would dissemble it and reassemble when it arrived. E.g leave the psu, cpu mobo in the case then the gpu, HDD's cpu coolers as luggage you can carry on the plane.

[germs]

Thats what I wanted to do, but the problem is that socket 775 CPUs only support 20 removals before they are liable to break, around 50 for SATA connectors. And because I would have to reapply the thermal paste each time, it would result in differing amounts of thermal performance each time, not to mention the 200+ hours runtime that arctic silver needs ion order to reach its full potential, so overclocking would be affected. I'm hoping to just store it above my seat on the plane.

[DrPepper]

hmm your idea is better than mine.

[Morgoth]

i would say a waist of money since you wont be using full bandwith of ddr at 1333 with fsb..
wait for bloomfield and get that.
and you could get 3x1 / 3x2gb for trichannel

[germs]

i would say a waist of money since you wont be using full bandwith of ddr at 1333 with fsb..
wait for bloomfield and get that.
and you could get 3x1 / 3x2gb for trichannel

Can't wait, because this will be for my birthday (partly at least). Sorry, but what do you mean by the ddr bit? I don't know eneough to understand the shorthand version.

Also, does that motherboard support tri cannel? Would be nice because then I wouldn't need xp 64 bit, but 4 gigs of ram would surely outperform 3, even if they are dual channeled as opposed to one set of tri canneled, correct?

[Morgoth]

trichannel is only for bloomfield
http://www.nehalemnews.com/

[germs]

I see. Just out of curiosity, how high do you think I can overclock my Q9450 with a tj10 with 5 120mm case fans, and a TRUE with a 120mm fan? Assuming room temperature. I have no idea what to expect, but I know the 8x multilpier is rather low. I have yet to finish researching overclocking, but I have a general idea of how it works from a few guides.

[farlex85]

I'd say w/ some good ram and a good chip 3.8, though around 3.6 for 24/7 stable probably.

[germs]

Awesome. Thanks to everyone for the help and info!

But can anyone give a second opinion on the speed difference between the 7200.11 and the Samsung F1 and WD Se16? I can't find any tests between them.

[freaksavior]

this is one 7200.11

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l294/freaksavior/7211.jpg

[farlex85]

For the 750gb drives I believe the 7200.11s test a little higher, although I can't find any direct comparisons either. I think any of those three will do ya good. On the egg right now, the 7200.11s are also the cheapest so........

[germs]

7200.11 it is then. Thanks.

I'll be sure to make a post showing the setup I end up using for a portable TRUE mod when the time comes.

[MrW]

All 750GB drives are slower than 640GB drives because the 640s have larger platter density (~320GB per disk versus 250GB per disk). The extra 16MB of cache makes almost no difference in performance. Thus a 320GB single platter Seagate will be faster than a 750GB 3 platter drive. If the 640s are to small for you, this drive also uses the larger platters:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152102

[germs]

One thing I forgot to ask though. Sorry.

Is 1333 mhz RAM really the best choice? According to this chart I found, it would seem that I would be getting better performance going with a DDR3 800 system, dual channeled, because I cannot attain the FSB needed to dual channel 1333, even with the perfect overclock. Single channel would yeild a 10.7 GB/s rate with 1333, but with 800 dual channeled, I could get 12.8 GB/s dual channeled.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_kttUtY0Z_zw/SDYPmzb0gqI/AAAAAAAAAWE/HQ-wU8h86rg/s1600/memory-fsb-chart.png

(Source: http://www.nehalemnews.com)

The only problem is that I know dual channeled RAM does not actually double the bandwidth in real situations. So, the real question becomes: are these numbers real values? Or with each additional channel, do you get diminishing returns? Or are all these listed bandwidths really a set, say, only 68%) of what the real values are?


EDIT: I understand how about the hard drives. Seems that 640 is indeed the way to go. I am going to go with the 640 WD model on Newegg.

In other words, is 10.7 GB/s (theoretical) faster than 12.6 GB/s dual channeled (theoretical)?

Sorry for the confusing format of the question.


EDIT: Hard drive comments make more sense now. I see why the 640's are better. I am probably going to go with these WD 640s (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218), which were linked in this thread. I'm assuming that two 320's will outperform 3 250's, even though the two only have a 16mb cache.

[craigo]

Hey germs,
Dude you are nuts,flying with the temjin10 will be a mission...
i have a tj09...these cases are NOT portable.

[MrW]

Hey germs,
Dude you are nuts,flying with the temjin10 will be a mission...
i have a tj09...these cases are NOT portable.

Agreed, moving full size towers is a pain. I'd get a laptop or at least a matx case.

[germs]

It is a mission I am willing (forced) to accept. I will be working out a lot over this summer, and I don't need to move it until then. Thats 4 months to beef up eneough to carry my case. Should provide a good incentive at least! :)

[MrW]

I'm assuming that two 320's will outperform 3 250's, even though the two only have a 16mb cache.
Yes if the 320s have the larger single platter, not all do. Some 1TB drives (Samsung F1 1TB and soon the WD 1TB drives will also). All 640s use the larger platter.

I'd go with one of these, depending on your size requirements:
WD Caviar se16 640GB
Samsung F1 1TB

[germs]

Yes if the 320s have the larger single platter, not all do. Some 1TB drives (Samsung F1 1TB and soon the WD 1TB drives will also). All 640s use the larger platter.

I was referring to platters rather than drives. I'm assuming that that doesnt change things, however, and that the 640 I linked will still, as you said, outperform any current SATA 750.

[KBD]

Hey germs,
Dude you are nuts,flying with the temjin10 will be a mission...
i have a tj09...these cases are NOT portable.

I also have a TJ-09, which a bit smaller then TJ-10. I think you will regret getting it to take it on multiple trips with you. mine is pain to move just to clean it, lol.

[MrW]

I was referring to platters rather than drives. I'm assuming that that doesnt change things, however, and that the 640 I linked will still, as you said, outperform any current SATA 750.

Correct.

[germs]

EDIT 2: Screw RAID. Unnecessary.

Thanks. Now that I'm looking into more drives, I'm getting into the RAID frenzy, which I told myself I wouldn't. I just researched for a long time relearning the levels, and decided that I will go with 4 (overkill, I know) 640 GB drives in RAID 0 configuration, and then, if you can have multiple arrays on the same computer, two (single platter) 320 GB drives to put my important data on in RAID 1, assuming the write speed reduction isn't noticable for saving small things such as pictures off web pages. Can this be done? My motherboard is listed as supporting RAID levels 1 and 0, but I am assuming I will still need a RAID card in order to do it.

EDIT: Also, just out of curiosity, if I were to get 6 of the same drive, could I do a raid 05/50 array with the proper RAID card, even though my motherboard doesn't support it?

[Wile E]

Sounds pretty good. The only problem is that I can't find a site that does a comparison between the two. Where did you manage to find info on them (comparitavely)?

I was thinking though, even with the TRUE, and a 120mm scythe fan, I could avoid damage to the motherboard by attaching a copper plate or two to the side window of the case to support it, right? Put into position/mounted when the motherboard is in the case horizontally, then set to stand up at all other times, or by a metal plate similar to how some new cases have supports for graphics cards (just maccguyvered to my needs). Is this a good idea? Like I said, my uncle is extremely handy, and something like this shouldn't be too hard for us to do.

Also, thanks for the clarification on the cables.Here's at least one of the reviews showing the Xigma ahead of the TRUE. http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=4

[germs]

Here's at least one of the reviews showing the Xigma ahead of the TRUE. http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=4

It appears that the Xig is better when the hetsink is using a low to mid range fan. For high end fans, it seems that the TRUE is better.

Anyone take a look at that memory conundrum I posted a few up?

[Wile E]

One thing I forgot to ask though. Sorry.

Is 1333 mhz RAM really the best choice? According to this chart I found, it would seem that I would be getting better performance going with a DDR3 800 system, dual channeled, because I cannot attain the FSB needed to dual channel 1333, even with the perfect overclock. Single channel would yeild a 10.7 GB/s rate with 1333, but with 800 dual channeled, I could get 12.8 GB/s dual channeled.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_kttUtY0Z_zw/SDYPmzb0gqI/AAAAAAAAAWE/HQ-wU8h86rg/s1600/memory-fsb-chart.png

(Source: http://www.nehalemnews.com)

The only problem is that I know dual channeled RAM does not actually double the bandwidth in real situations. So, the real question becomes: are these numbers real values? Or with each additional channel, do you get diminishing returns? Or are all these listed bandwidths really a set, say, only 68%) of what the real values are?


EDIT: I understand how about the hard drives. Seems that 640 is indeed the way to go. I am going to go with the 640 WD model on Newegg.

In other words, is 10.7 GB/s (theoretical) faster than 12.6 GB/s dual channeled (theoretical)?

Sorry for the confusing format of the question.


EDIT: Hard drive comments make more sense now. I see why the 640's are better. I am probably going to go with these WD 640s (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218), which were linked in this thread. I'm assuming that two 320's will outperform 3 250's, even though the two only have a 16mb cache.Speeds don't matter in reference to how many channels it runs on. Only the number of sticks matter, what slots you put them in, and sticks have to be the same size and capable of the same speeds.

So, putting 2 matched 1333Mhz DDR3 sticks in the proper slots will yield dual channel.

As far as the heatsinks, do you really want a 100cfm fan wailing away in your case to get the better performance from the TRUE?

[germs]

Speeds don't matter in reference to how many channels it runs on. Only the number of sticks matter, what slots you put them in, and sticks have to be the same size and capable of the same speeds.

So, putting 2 matched 1333Mhz DDR3 sticks in the proper slots will yield dual channel.

As far as the heatsinks, do you really want a 100cfm fan wailing away in your case to get the better performance from the TRUE?

Got it. I'm not sure if you saw the chart I linked though, if you go to the link I provided and scroll down about a page its right there... it says that the FSB limits how many channels DDRX can run on. Is this just incorrect?

I'm getting a Scythe to cool it, so hopefully it won't be too loud.

[Wile E]

Got it. I'm not sure if you saw the chart I linked though, if you go to the link I provided and scroll down about a page its right there... it says that the FSB limits how many channels DDRX can run on. Is this just incorrect?

I'm getting a Scythe to cool it, so hopefully it won't be too loud.Yeah, it's just wrong, or we are both misunderstanding that article (tho, admittedly, I just skimmed. lol). I have no idea where they get that. Current boards use fsb:ram ratios to achieve certain speeds. DDR3 boards have higher ratios available to them, to allow higher ram speeds at the same fsb speeds. FSB speed has absolutely nothing to do with how many channels ram runs with, however. There are a few DDR3 owners in here that can confirm this.

[Morgoth]

that chart is abouth how mutch bandwith ddr got on fsb
as it said ddr3 doest get full bandwith that fsb gives