Super Desktop, Inferior Game Running :(

[Niv]

I've just purchased a new desktop and it's specs are fantastic (well to me it is). However, the thing can't play ANY game without lagging ridiculously.

The game would first run smoothly, if not hyper-speeding everything, then it would go into this 1 frame/5sec mode for couple seconds then repeat the same process again.

I don't know what's up with the system, but after checking TaskManager, I noticed that when the lag starts the CPU would spike up an extra 10% and that SYSTEM in the list would appear to be trying to do something that lags the game! Please help! This is pretty depressing for me since I was greatly expecting some fantastic game play.

Any help is much appreciated. :)

[DonInKansas]

Welcome to TPU!

You'll be able to get more help if you fill out your System Specs in your profile or give them here. That way our awesome community has more info to work with.

[Niv]

This is my system's specs:

[dark2099]

What are the specs of the computer?

[Niv]

Sorry for making so many multiple posts I'm very unfamiliar to forums :(

Here are the specs reposted:

OS: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center 2002
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6400+
Mthr Brd: ASUS M2N-VM DVI
RAM: 3GB
Vdeo Crd: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT

[dark2099]

I was just slow in posting, and by the time my post went through you had responded.

[Niv]

That's alright :) any help is appreciated. Your being here is already giving me comforts in this vast community of experts. The last forum I requested help in gave me cold shoulders for a long time and that doesn't exactly give me peace of mind. :(

[dark2099]

Basically there are two things that could be causing the problems, either something hardware related (if you bought the computer from a store, posting a link could be helpful) or something software related. What game(s) have you noticed this with, and what other software have you installed since buying the computer.

[Niv]

k atm I'm 99% certain that this is purely hardware (and maybe 1% that some bad software) for these reasons:

- All games installed in my other laptop and tablet (both are inferior to the desktop and much older) are able to run the games 100% problems free
- All games currently installed in this desktop has the identical lag problem (begins smoothly/ hyper speed, lag lag lag, returns smoothly/ hyper speed)
- All games when lagging have SYSTEM popping up in the TaskManager followed by some CPU spiking

Games that I've tried are: Dawn of War - Dark Crusade, Voyage Century Online, Caesar IV

Things that I've done hoping to solve this problem:
- reinstalled NVIDIA driver using newest version provided by company site
- run anti-spyware, greyware, malware etc. with NOD32, ThreatFire, Xoftspy (returns 0)
- running the games with ALL defense softwares turned off
- updating directX to most recent version 9.0c
- restarting computer

and of course none of them worked :(

[dark2099]

Hrm...well the only way to be 100% sure it isn't a software program is uninstall everything you have installed. Yes it is a lot to do, but the only way that can be 100% sure without totally formatting the system. If that doesn't seem to work, then you may want return or exchange the system if it is bought, if you built it, you could test the hardware, but not sure if you have spare parts, or have a friend who could help.

[Niv]

0_0 dang... if it's software anyway I can test that first?

[JC316]

So the games start out playing fine, then starts really lagging and stuttering? I am thinking that a background program is interfering with it. You could try shutting down all unnecessary background programs and see if that helps.

Also, what brand and wattage is your power supply? It could be running out of juice and causing something like this.

[dark2099]

I would uninstall everything, then just install the games and see how they run. If the lagging still happens it could be hardware, like the graphics card overheating, if it doesn't then install one program at a time, and try gaming. If you don't get any problems, install another program. This might be a lot of work, but in the end it is probably the best way of checking the system that I can think of.

[Niv]

k I'll try the back ground program solution right now. How do you check the power supply brand and wattage? It's only a piece of long plug with no labeling s...

[JC316]

k I'll try the back ground program solution right now. How do you check the power supply brand and wattage? It's only a piece of long plug with no labeling s...

Check the inside the computer, there should be a sticker on the power supply that tells what I need to know. I am willing to be that it's going to be a low powered power supply. Also, is this computer a name brand, like Dell, or HP, or did someone else build it?

[blkhogan]

What virus protection are you running? If any shut it down and try it. I had this same problem. Turned out it was my virus protection running in the background.

[Niv]

k power supply I will check in 1min. The protection programs I have are listed above, I'm going to shut them down (don't hack me please) from TaskManager and see how it goes. The desktop is custom build, so it's got things from everywhere. Specific companies related are in the specs.

[dark2099]

Where did you purchase the parts from?

[Niv]

parts are purchased from a small computer store called flycomputers, their website is www.flycomputers(dot)com (I don't know if this forum allows links) my desktop is a custom build using one of the entertainment system there as a template. (swapping parts)

[Niv]

LMAO k I shut off half the total things in my TaskManager and the games now run at 3x of their supposed speed instead of 2x with the same problems still occuring. I'm gonna go restart my computer now and I'll be back with the power plug answers.

[Niv]

The power plug has these writings on them hope this is what you're looking for:

27 TEC 53(RVV) 300/500V 3X 0.5mm^2 (written on the part inside the case)
XD RVV WGX3C P.V.C WIRE B (written on the part outside the case)

[hat]

Hrm... 3GB. Is that 3 sticks? Try taking one stick out if it is 3 sticks. You're probably not running dual channel.

[Niv]

I think what I would like to stress is that the games start most of the time ULTRA-fast. Games run at 2x~3x their supposed speed for 5~10secs then lags to some incredible degree (as if the computer processed too fast and then decided to do nothing), then goes back to the 2x~3x hyper-speed again (as if computer realized that it has forgotten about the game program and decided to pick up the work again) which of course will result in the lag again. This process repeats at a steady pace as if the computer times it.

[Niv]

Nope, sorry I see only 2 sticks (chips). Do you still want me to take one out?

[blkhogan]

3GB of memory with only 2 sticks?

[Niv]

3GB of memory with only 2 sticks?

well... I only see 2 slabs of looong sticks with what seems to be 8 RAM chips arranged in groups of 4 per stick.

[hat]

yeah blkhogan said it all I never heard of a 1.5gb stick of RAM
Are you combining your system ram and your video ram? Under the memory tab when you fill out your system specs you're only supposed to list your system ram... video ram is seperate.

[Niv]

:S sorry if I've made a dumb mistake and confused you guys. I just copied the RAM off my MyComputer properties where it said 3GB of RAM. I think what I may have ordered (or what it may be that's in the slots) are 1 1GB RAM stick and 1 2GB RAM stick. If this is not possible please let me know how I can check and find the needed info.

[blkhogan]

1- 1GB and 1-2GB is possible for a total of 3GB. That would be a strange way to do it. Its not the way ddr runs though. Need matched sets for duel channel.

[hat]

yeah, 1 1gb stick and 1 2gb stick does amount to 3GB of ram but no dual channel :(

[Niv]

:S I didn't know this information when I ordered the RAM boost. I just asked the shop keeper to increase my RAM to higher than 2GB when I ordered the parts. Should I exchange the 1GB one for a 2GB?

[blkhogan]

I suggest you pull the RAM and send it back for a matched set of DDR2 pc6400 800MHz. Get 2GB's that would be 2x1GB for a total of 2GB. That would be a good start on your way to figuring out your gaming problems.

[blkhogan]

Who ever sold it to you that way needs to be slapped up-side the head :slap:

[Niv]

Roger sir! :) How did you figure out that it's pc6400 800MHz? I will do that asap!

[hat]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146565
;)

[DonInKansas]

Maybe 2x2gb only showing 3 gig in a 32 bit OS?

[Niv]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146565
;)

this website doesn't tell me how you found out about the RAM sticks... it only told me what they are. (They don't look like the ones I have in the case btw...)

[blkhogan]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146565
;)

+1 :toast:

Very true Don. What OS and is it 32 or 64 bit?

[echo75]

Maybe 2x2gb only showing 3 gig in a 32 bit OS?


i will show up as 3.25 or something else just above 3G , i have same myself.

[JC316]

I think what I would like to stress is that the games start most of the time ULTRA-fast. Games run at 2x~3x their supposed speed for 5~10secs then lags to some incredible degree (as if the computer processed too fast and then decided to do nothing), then goes back to the 2x~3x hyper-speed again (as if computer realized that it has forgotten about the game program and decided to pick up the work again) which of course will result in the lag again. This process repeats at a steady pace as if the computer times it.

Wait a second, you say that it's running ultra fast? Ok, try this, when you start the game, Alt tab out and pull up the task manager and click on the game in the processes tab. Right click on it and hit "set Affinity" make sure that it's only set to core 0 and not both cores.

I had this same problem with ground control and it was loaded on both cores and screwing things up.

[Mussels]

contrary to other peoples comments, this problem IS software. hardware problems result in crashing or consistent behavior, running smooth and then chugging/going crazy quite often points at software/viruslike behaviour.

hardware checklist: overheating CPU or video card

Software checklist: viruses, drivers
One important driver for the 'ultra fast' issue is the AMD dual core optimiser available here
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/utilities/AMD_Dual-Core_Optimizer_113.zip


Also, if you just moved your old windows hard drive across that wont work. you will need to format windows to make it work properly, and that would be my reccomended fix for your current problems anyway, if the above things i mentioned do not work.

[Niv]

+1 :toast:

Very true Don. What OS and is it 32 or 64 bit?

the OS is listed in the specs field: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2002
As for whether it's 32 or 64 bit... I don't know how to find that out... Can someone tell me?

Wait a second, you say that it's running ultra fast? Ok, try this, when you start the game, Alt tab out and pull up the task manager and click on the game in the processes tab. Right click on it and hit "set Affinity" make sure that it's only set to core 0 and not both cores.

I had this same problem with ground control and it was loaded on both cores and screwing things up.

I've just tried this and it solved half the problem. Instead of the game going 2x~3x its normal speed it's going AT its normal speed. However the repeating lag cycle is still there. :( Thus I moved on to the next suggestion and I tried that in all combinations with this suggestion; still no luck. (No more ULTRA-speed games! Is this good or bad? D:)

contrary to other peoples comments, this problem IS software. hardware problems result in crashing or consistent behavior, running smooth and then chugging/going crazy quite often points at software/viruslike behaviour.

hardware checklist: overheating CPU or video card

Software checklist: viruses, drivers
One important driver for the 'ultra fast' issue is the AMD dual core optimiser available here
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/utilities/AMD_Dual-Core_Optimizer_113.zip


Also, if you just moved your old windows hard drive across that wont work. you will need to format windows to make it work properly, and that would be my reccomended fix for your current problems anyway, if the above things i mentioned do not work.

I've just tried this method too by itself and in combination with the previous method. Sorry to say that it did the same thing as the previous method did. (Instead of having one CPU going bonkers and the other sleeping, I now have 2 sane and working CPUs)

**For both suggestions listed above, I've tried them in combination with turning off protection programs => Didn't work. :(

[Mussels]

media center 2002 is only 32 bit, it has no 64 bit variant. Thats why only 3GB of ram is showing, even though you have 4GB. you'll need a 64 bit operating system to see all 4GB.

[Niv]

Before we settle on this new piece of RAM info, can you tell me how to confirm that it physically is 3GB and not 4GB? From what I remembered, the shop owner did suggest that 3 GB is available for upgrading, and being all stupid and cheap, I told him to upgrade to the next cheapest possible option other than 2GB. If this is indeed 3GB RAM instead of 4GB, what would the impact be on the system?

[hayder.master]

see my system specs

[tkpenalty]

Before we go on with anything may you tell us what game you are playing? I would leave the RAM AS IT IS. It is totally stupid to go from 3GB back to 2GB for just general purposes, unless you can have your money back switching the 2GB stick for the 1GB stick.

Anyway I would take the system back to the store to check for any problems.

[Mussels]

the AMD driver is a fix so that you dont need to manually set the affinity, that is its purpose.

Now that you only have the lag issue, its time to sort that out. What we need to find out now, is if your hard drives are running properly. its possible they are in PIO mode, which makes hard drives slow/laggy, and therefore games tend to do it as well.

Go into device manager and have a look at IDE controllers - it varies, but more or less have a look at every device that shows there and see if they mention DMA or PIO mode. Hard drives should be UDMA 5, DVD drives UDMA 3, and SATA drives UDMA 5 or 6.

TK - he has 4GB of ram most likely, on a 32 bit OS.

[hayder.master]

media center 2002 is only 32 bit, it has no 64 bit variant. Thats why only 3GB of ram is showing, even though you have 4GB. you'll need a 64 bit operating system to see all 4GB.

right only win xp64 see 4gb or vista

[Niv]

see my system specs

I see your specs. What is your point?

Before we go on with anything may you tell us what game you are playing? I would leave the RAM AS IT IS. It is totally stupid to go from 3GB back to 2GB for just general purposes, unless you can have your money back switching the 2GB stick for the 1GB stick.

Anyway I would take the system back to the store to check for any problems.

The games HAVE been listed above but I'll list again:
Voyage Century Online
WarHammer 40,000 - Dark Crusade
Caesar IV

the AMD driver is a fix so that you dont need to manually set the affinity, that is its purpose.

Now that you only have the lag issue, its time to sort that out. What we need to find out now, is if your hard drives are running properly. its possible they are in PIO mode, which makes hard drives slow/laggy, and therefore games tend to do it as well.

Go into device manager and have a look at IDE controllers - it varies, but more or less have a look at every device that shows there and see if they mention DMA or PIO mode. Hard drives should be UDMA 5, DVD drives UDMA 3, and SATA drives UDMA 5 or 6.

TK - he has 4GB of ram most likely, on a 32 bit OS.

k one sec I'll follow this through right now.

[Niv]

Okay, here's what I see from the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers:
Primary IDE Channel
Primary IDE Channel
Secondary IDE Channel
Secondary IDE Channel
Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller

Can you let me know which one is Hard Drive, DVD drive and SATA drive?

[Niv]

hmmm... I've just tooked my RAM sticks out and checked them... they're indeed both 2GB giving a total of 4 GB. :S . Sorry if I've doubted you guys, and thanks for letting me know about this before I run to the shop 5 km away like an idiot that I am.

The writings on both of them is... : 2GB JETRAM DDR 667 donno what they stand for yet :S

[hat]

Yeah. It only recgonizes 3GB because you have a 64-bit OS. Just to make sure... download CPU-Z, go to the memory tab, and where it says channels #, it should say either single or dual... of course, you want it to say dual.

[twicksisted]

he probably has 4gb ram... in 32bit os
thats why it shows up as 3gb

(ok i shouldve read the last page first)

[hayder.master]

which games have problems i am play crisis on very high

[Niv]

Yeah. It only recgonizes 3GB because you have a 64-bit OS. Just to make sure... download CPU-Z, go to the memory tab, and where it says channels #, it should say either single or dual... of course, you want it to say dual.

Does your suggestion do the same thing as this suggestion?

contrary to other peoples comments, this problem IS software. hardware problems result in crashing or consistent behavior, running smooth and then chugging/going crazy quite often points at software/viruslike behaviour.

hardware checklist: overheating CPU or video card

Software checklist: viruses, drivers
One important driver for the 'ultra fast' issue is the AMD dual core optimiser available here
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/utilities/AMD_Dual-Core_Optimizer_113.zip


Also, if you just moved your old windows hard drive across that wont work. you will need to format windows to make it work properly, and that would be my reccomended fix for your current problems anyway, if the above things i mentioned do not work.

[hat]

No.
http://www.cpuid.com/download/cpuz_145.zip

[Niv]

k it's getting real late here so I'll post the rest of my progress tomorrow and I guess we can continue then. Thanks a ton for eveyone's crazy enthusiasm in helping :), when the problem is solved I'll make sure to spread good words to my friends about this forum. Till then, night guys.

[DonInKansas]

Does your suggestion do the same thing as this suggestion?

Nope; you'll definitely want to download the Dual Core Optimizer; now that Ithink back, my games were performing similarly until I happened across this little nugget of AMD goodness....(found here at TPU I think!:toast:)

[Mussels]

Okay, here's what I see from the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers:
Primary IDE Channel
Primary IDE Channel
Secondary IDE Channel
Secondary IDE Channel
Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller

Can you let me know which one is Hard Drive, DVD drive and SATA drive?

as you go into each one, it should actually say. What channel has what drive all comes down to how they were plugged in!

All of those appear to be IDE actually.
the 'standard controller' is the main one, and each of those has a primary and secondary under it.

SATA drives show up as IDE unless they are set to SATA in the motherboards BIOS and the drivers installed, so even if you have SATA it appears your system was setup in IDE compatibility mode (this does not cause the problems you are experiencing, it merely disables some features such as hot-swap on SATA-II hard drives)

[Cybrnook2002]

Go in your BIOS and try turning off any power saving features like C1E etc......anything that would downclock your components.

[Mussels]

Go in your BIOS and try turning off any power saving features like C1E etc......anything that would downclock your components.

while i appreciate your attempting to help, we've already fixed the CPU related problems with the AMD dual core optimiser/forcing affinities.

However, i kindly request (and i mean this in a nice way) that you sit back, and learn a bit here - he has an AMD system, which does NOT have C1E or those 'other features' and actually requires a software installation before it can activate (AMD cool and quiet)

'Downclocking' from those features NEVER hinders performance, they speed back up in nanoseconds, and never slow anything down. its a myth.

[Niv]

Nope; you'll definitely want to download the Dual Core Optimizer; now that Ithink back, my games were performing similarly until I happened across this little nugget of AMD goodness....(found here at TPU I think!:toast:)

As I've said before, I've tried this method and it solved half the problems.

as you go into each one, it should actually say. What channel has what drive all comes down to how they were plugged in!

All of those appear to be IDE actually.
the 'standard controller' is the main one, and each of those has a primary and secondary under it.

SATA drives show up as IDE unless they are set to SATA in the motherboards BIOS and the drivers installed, so even if you have SATA it appears your system was setup in IDE compatibility mode (this does not cause the problems you are experiencing, it merely disables some features such as hot-swap on SATA-II hard drives)

Unforunately when I was check this last night I don't recall seeing those descriptions. It listed a bunch of channel names instead, and I couldn't figure out which is which. I can tell you that all of them has some thing like this currently selected (I didn't change them) "DMA if available".

**I called the shop keeper who sold me the desktop (that he put together for me) today, and he told me that there may be a problem with my OS. Apparently he believes that Microsoft Windows XP - Media Center is a bad OS to be used for gaming. (This might be possible, cause SYSTEM in the TaskManager's list does pop up everytime during the lag spiking some 10% more CPU usage. I furthermore noticed that, when the game is running ultra-fast (now normal speed thanks to the dual-core optimizer) the game uses 0~5% CPU. It is as if the game has be PRE-processed. I some how get the feeling that perhaps there is a mis-communication between my CPU, mother board and my video card. Well this is only a hunch. Keep the suggestions flowing. I will try them when I get back home. Keep helping me and thanks guys :)

[Mussels]

they'll say "DMA if available", and IF a drive is on that channel, they'll list the mode its on underneath that. List all the modes that are showing.

It doesnt matter which is which to be honest, if you list the modes they're in i can tell you if any are set wrong.

[Niv]

k here are some more new infos for good sir Mussels :)

Primary IDE Channel Properties
Device 0
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if available
- Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 4
Device 1
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if avilable
- Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable

Primary IDE Channel Properties
Device 0
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if available
- Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 4
Device 1
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if avilable
- Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable

Secondary IDE Channel Properties
Device 0
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if available
- Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 6
Device 1
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if avilable
- Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable

Secondary IDE Channel Properties
Device 0
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if available
- Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
Device 1
- Device Type: Auto Detection
- Transfer Mode: DMA if avilable
- Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable

Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
- N/A (can't find the tabs listed above under ADVANCED SETTINGS)

Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
- N/A (can't find the tabs listed above under ADVANCED SETTINGS)

[Mussels]

the UDMA 6 would be a SATA-II hard drive, while the UDMA 4 drives would be running ATA 100 or 133 (i cant remember which) which is normal for IDE hard drives.

Those are all perfectly fine, which means HDD's arent likely to be the problem here - if any of those had been in multi-word DMA or PIO mode, they would have been a very good cause for the problems you are having.

So far weve ruled out HDD's and CPU... i wonder whats left to check. Now that you have the dual core optimiser, can you give more in-detail reports of any problems you're having?

[Niv]

well this is all the info that I can provide for now:

SYSTEM in the TaskManager's list does pop up everytime during the lag spiking some 10% more CPU usage. I furthermore noticed that, when the game is running ultra-fast (now normal speed thanks to the dual-core optimizer) the game uses 0~5% CPU. It is as if the game has be PRE-processed. I some how get the feeling that perhaps there is a mis-communication between my CPU, mother board and my video card.

I think what I would like to stress is that the games start most of the time ULTRA-fast. Games run at 2x~3x their supposed speed for 5~10secs then lags to some incredible degree (as if the computer processed too fast and then decided to do nothing), then goes back to the 2x~3x hyper-speed again (as if computer realized that it has forgotten about the game program and decided to pick up the work again) which of course will result in the lag again. This process repeats at a steady pace as if the computer times it.

[Niv]

Also that when the game is lagging, the CPU of the game appears. When the game is hyper-speeding/smooth running, NO game CPU appears in the TaskManager.

[Mussels]

To be honest, i'm stumped. It makes me think its a virus or other software issue, i'd suggest formatting to a more common/accesible OS like vista x64 (mostly so you can use your 4GB of ram)

[Darren]

It's not a hardware issue it's software, either an application which you or your PC dealer has installed which is consuming an unnecessary amount of CPU resources and hence causing these spikes (possibly an anti-virus program in the middle of a scan?)

Download CPU-z it will give us a full run down of your systems specification and tell us your motherboard name/number and maybe we can help you find some motherboard chipset drivers.

Also download Nvidia's latest graphics card driver for the 8600 series-------> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_175.16_whql.html


Also that when the game is lagging, the CPU of the game appears. When the game is hyper-speeding/smooth running, NO game CPU appears in the TaskManager.

You keep saying "the game" what game exactly are you attempting to play and does this happen with every title you play. Because if this problem only occurs with one game and all your other games are fine maybe you should look for a game specific patch.



Last resort would be to format your hard disk drive and re-install window, if that fails contact your PC dealer. This is why I stay away from prebuilt PCs, they charge you upto 2x more, mess up the build and give you crappy technical support.

[Mussels]

actually i should ask as this isnt in your specs - do you have G15 keyboard? i've heard of the LCD driver for them doing this kind of thing.

[Niv]

Sorry for the long wait. Exams were closing in and I got too busy to experimet with my desktop. I've found 2 more things about the problems. This lag problem seems to also be occuring OUTSIDE of game playing; when I was surfing the internet looking for desktop backgrounds, the lag starts to occur. Perhaps his has to do with my video card? I also noticed that on my motherboard driver installation disc, it says "Nvidia Geforce7050PV/nForce 60a Chipset Support CD Rev.407.01", my video card is Nvidia e-GeForce8200 GT" perhaps my video card is too much for my mother board to handle?

As I've greatly feared. The problems seem to be rooted from my hardware. I've just finished reformatting and reinstalling my OS into Windows XP pro (Serv. Pack 2) followed by the driver installations. Without installing ANYTHING else, I installed the games I was talking about, and once again the same problems has appeared. Atm, I'm stumped as in what piece of my hardwares could be causing this and how I should fix it.

It's not a hardware issue it's software, either an application which you or your PC dealer has installed which is consuming an unnecessary amount of CPU resources and hence causing these spikes (possibly an anti-virus program in the middle of a scan?)

Download CPU-z it will give us a full run down of your systems specification and tell us your motherboard name/number and maybe we can help you find some motherboard chipset drivers.

Also download Nvidia's latest graphics card driver for the 8600 series-------> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_175.16_whql.html




You keep saying "the game" what game exactly are you attempting to play and does this happen with every title you play. Because if this problem only occurs with one game and all your other games are fine maybe you should look for a game specific patch.



Last resort would be to format your hard disk drive and re-install window, if that fails contact your PC dealer. This is why I stay away from prebuilt PCs, they charge you upto 2x more, mess up the build and give you crappy technical support.

Darren, hate to say this but I've said what games I'm talking about before for 3 times at least already. They are Voyage Century Online, Dawn of War, Caesar IV. And I've followed you advice, the results are said at the top of the post.

actually i should ask as this isnt in your specs - do you have G15 keyboard? i've heard of the LCD driver for them doing this kind of thing.

The key board I'm using is by logitech "Logitech Cordless Desktop EX110"

** As many of you have requested. I've ran the cpuz.exe posted for me and here are the results:

[Niv]

sorry I mean to say that the problem occurs ALSO* outside of game playing.

[Mussels]

i have an EX110. horrible keyboard :D

nothings wrong with the CPU-Z.

The only things i can think of here is that you mention a driver CD - you arent using that are you? you should install XP SP3 and get the latest updates for drivers direct from the manufacturer (EG, if its an Nvidia card get it from nvidia.com)

We already checked your HDD and CD drives, thats where i would have looked otherwise...

Heres an idea. go into power properties in the device manager, and make sure the HDD idle time isnt set to a low number - set it to infnite, or 2 hours.

[Scheich]

Your mobo sux. I had exact the same problem with an ASUS blahblah VM-SE. It was very cheap. The solution is simple, return it. If you cant do it, you could direkt a fan at one of the mobo heatsinks, maybe that helps. If you insist in keeping it, someday a big hammer will appear in your hand, autosmashing your computer, don´t let that happen !!!

I know this sounds ridiculous, but looking back at this piece of shit from Asus, i can still barely laugh about it :mad:

[largon]

Niv,
Your motherboard has an integrated GPU. Are you sure you have the monitor plugged into the actual video card (8600GT), not into the motherboard?

[Mussels]

Niv
Your motherboard has an integrated GPU. Are you sure you have the monitor plugged into the actual video card (8600GT), not into the motherboard?

if that was the case he'd have no video output. Also, note that he mentions high FPS that then dips, he'd be low all around on the onboard. His hitching also occurs in 2D, meaning that the video card is most likely unrelated.


So that it doesnt get lost Niv, can you please check the power option i mentioned. A friend recently had a similar problem, although his was in vista - BIOS and windows have options to turn off HDD's after an idle period, and his system was freezing temporarily due to the drives turning on and off.

[Niv]

I can't find the power option in the device manager section, only these ones are listed instead:
Computer
Disk drives
Diplay adapters
DVD/CD-ROM drives
Floppy disk controllrs
flppy disk drives
Human Interface DeicesIDE ATA/ATAPI controllers
Keybards
Mice and other pointing devices
Monitors
Network adapters
NVIDIA NtworkBus Enumerator
Ports (COM&LPT)
Processors
Sound, video and game controllers
System devices
Universal Serial Bus controllers

[Mussels]

I can't find the power option in the device manager section, only these ones are listed instead:
Computer
Disk drives
Diplay adapters
DVD/CD-ROM drives
Floppy disk controllrs
flppy disk drives
Human Interface DeicesIDE ATA/ATAPI controllers
Keybards
Mice and other pointing devices
Monitors
Network adapters
NVIDIA NtworkBus Enumerator
Ports (COM&LPT)
Processors
Sound, video and game controllers
System devices
Universal Serial Bus controllers

its in the control panel, not device manager. thats my bad, i said it wrong in the post.

[Darren]

it says "Nvidia Geforce7050PV/nForce 60a Chipset Support CD Rev.407.01", my video card is Nvidia e-GeForce8200 GT



Your spec says you have an 8600 GT not an e-GeForce8200 GT, is the "e-Geforce8200 GT" the integrated card?


perhaps my video card is too much for my mother board to handle?

No such thing either your card is PCI-E compatible or not and it is. The 8200/8600 series aren't exactly the most powerful cards (actually pretty weak) any below average motherboard and PSU should "handle" it well.



I think your PC dealer is making excuses Windows XP Media Center is a good operating system, maybe not the best for gaming but it wouldn't pose you any problems. If your within warranty have your dealer replace the system free of charge.

[Niv]

sorry it's a typo not e-GeForce8200 GT but this is what I hav instead for video card e-GeForce8600 GT

checked power contorl. it says "never".

[Mussels]

sorry it's a typo not e-GeForce8200 GT but this is what I hav instead for video card e-GeForce8600 GT

checked power contorl. it says "never".

well for once i am going to admit defeat. I seriously have no idea what could be causing this. if you do solve it, please make sure to let us know - its not often i get totally stumped, and i'd really like to know what to do if i run into this again.

[Ripper3]

I can't think of any suggestions, that haven't been given already.
This really is confusing, but I would like to say (I might have missed someone else saying it, sorry if I did), SYSTEM and SYSTEM IDLE PROCESS shouldn't worry you, they'll spike up when needed.
http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/system%20.html
There's nothing to worry about there.

Somke motherboards react differently with on-board and discrete graphics boards, so if the on-board IS enabled, it may be taking precedence over the discrete. Really just double-check the connections to the card, and the BIOS, to make sure it's disabled.
Might be worth checking out GPU-Z as well, give us the clock speeds it's running (who knows, may be underclocked for some reason), and jsut as a double-check it's running off the 8600.
Oh, and it wouldn't necesarilly be running slow off the on-board. Certainly would account for the lagging though, since the 7050 shares system RAM, so maybe it's accessing it, and slowing the computer. Although with 4Gigs, that may not be the case.

Isn't there a way for his RAM to be fully accessible? Thought there were options built-in that would allow the computer to recognise all of the RAM.

[Niv]

well thanks for the tons of input. What I will do tomorrow/today (5:00am right now) is I will call the shop keeper to let him know of the problem, and I will send the machine in asking for a better mother board in exchage for the trouble he has caused me and the old piece of crap motherboard (brand new but still crap)

Ripper3, I'm a computer idiot, this is my first Desktop ever owned, used and purchased in my life. I don't know half the things you are talking about there. If you wouldn't mind can you explain those in layman's term so that I can understand or at least know what to do to perform the things you're talking about?

Lastly, can you guys give me some inputs on how good a deal it is for this desktop, if it's priced at 930 and purchased at 850 CDN? (purchased 1 month + 1 week ago) Thanks, any opinions are great, don't worry about making me feel bad for buying crap at ripped off prices. :)

[Mussels]

he's talking about onboard video, fighting the dedicated card for resources. its rare, but its possible. Turning the onboard video off in the bios would fix any issues if that was the problem.

If you bought that for $850 with no screen, i'd say you got ripped. the CPU is great, the rest is only midrange at best.

If you can, next time build your own rig - we'll gladly help you out here.

[Niv]

oh yeah forgot to add, that includes a 19" plasma wide screen

[Mussels]

oh yeah forgot to add, that includes a 19" plasma wide screen

LCD? plasma and LCD are quite different.

thats not so bad then.

Prices have been dropping steadily here in aus recently, $900 for a tower would get me a core 2 duo system with 4GB ram, a 9600GT, 500GB HDD and a brand-name case and PSU (probably antec)

[Ripper3]

Sorry, my posts are normally a bunch of crap mixed together, and replying to different posts at different times.

Your system has discrete and on-board graphics, so it's got the GeForce 7050, which explains the drivers on the disc, and it has the 8600GT as discrete.
If the on-board graphics are enabled in the motherboard's BIOS, and you have the monitor plugged into the motherboard's video output, then the system could be using the on-board instead of the discrete.
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=1841&l1=3&l2=101&l3=567&l4=0
Check the picture near the bottom of that link, labelled Back Panel I/O Ports. If the monitor is plugged into the blue or white connector there, then it's connected to the wrong ports (again, sorry if you've tried this and I missed it).
If it is, then change the connector. The ones for the 8600 will be lower down on the back of the case, since it's a tower.

Linky for GPU-Z
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/
Just run it, and see what it shows up. If it displays information about the Geforce 7050, it's running on-board graphics for sure.
Oh and while at it, run a game, it has a temperature readout in the program, and should show the temperature of your graphics card.

[Niv]

k, some more infos for you guys:

I have 2 gif files from the GPU.exe:

I also have 4 jpeg files from my task manager labeling what I see before and during the lag.

[Ripper3]

That's fine, it's using the 8600GT, and the temperatures are safe.
That is peculiar, when Caesar IV dips in CPU usage.
System Idle process is fine though, it's just showing the amount of CPU time that's not currently in use, so it seems the game just suddenly stops for some reason.

You're not the only person that has trouble with Caesar IV and an Athlon X2: http://www.amazon.com/review/R1BEW3EV40P76Y/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm
The Athlon patch and installing all MS updates fixed it for him.
I'll check about trouble including 8-series cards.

[Niv]

mind you this happens for ALL my other games: Voyage Century Online, Warhammer 40,000 - Dark Crusade.

[Ripper3]

True, almost forgot about that, but since you had Caesar IV open, tried to find info about problems involving Caesar.

I almost get the feeling that the OS might be the problem. Can MCE2002 be updated to 2005, or are they too different, and require different licenses?
I'd say, if you take it back to them, ask for a different OS, even if it's just for testing, I'd ask for plain old XP Home/Pro. See if the problems go away.

[Mussels]

True, almost forgot about that, but since you had Caesar IV open, tried to find info about problems involving Caesar.

I almost get the feeling that the OS might be the problem. Can MCE2002 be updated to 2005, or are they too different, and require different licenses?
I'd say, if you take it back to them, ask for a different OS, even if it's just for testing, I'd ask for plain old XP Home/Pro. See if the problems go away.

he said earlier he went back to XP SP2, same problem.

[Ripper3]

Woops sorry. My mistake, then.

It is peculiar. I guess you should probably just take it back, and see what they tell you. And if they say they can't find a fault, I'd force them to try again, and show them the game performance, since they may sometimes not find anything wrong with it, or do, and try to pass it off as working.

[marsey99]

my money is its due to the 86gt being a poor card (sry bro but it is) the rest of your setup is ok and should do well in most games if you had more gpu power.

[driver66]

Have you tried updating the chipset drivers? :confused:

[Mussels]

my money is its due to the 86gt being a poor card (sry bro but it is) the rest of your setup is ok and should do well in most games if you had more gpu power.

thats completely irrelevant, and to be honest quite poor thinking. you think an 8600GT isnt enough for civ IV? How does a poor card explain the CPU spiking??

I know that this problem is hard to narrow down, but wild guesses help no one.

The only new thing i can think of, is the BIOS version on the system. tried updating the latest one on the motherboard? (has this already been suggested?)

[Ripper3]

The 8600 series isn't THAT poor. My GTS could handle pretty much anything I threw at it, so think before you immediately put something down.
Meanwhile, Caesar IV wouldn't slow it down to that effect, it would be getting a consistently low FPS if that was the case, but it jsut freezes and lags every few seconds, that suggests a completely different problem.

[tkpenalty]

Anyone ever thought of a virus which migrates onto removable storage media so that even if you format it comes back? Or even worse a rootkit.

[mrhuggles]

get process explorer, and load it

view, select columns, process performance tab, check CPU History.

view, check show new processes

let this run for a while, while your playing things, watch for it to slow down then get outa the game and look in it, in the little graphs, these graphs to the right of each process show each processes cpu useage history, im hopeing you can figure out what to do from here

[imperialreign]

just a thought, and not sure if it's been mentioned as I just skimmed over this thread . . .


but have you turned off WIN self-defragging and HDD indexing? Both XP and Vista are set at default to defrag the hard drives, and index the files and folders when the HDDs are at an idle state, and WIN doesn't seem to pay if you're playing a game or using some other application.




Another thought - what kind of FPS are we talking about here, you could use FRAPS program to monitor FPS in-game. I'm kind getting the feeling, though, the slowness you're speaking of is really just loading stutter (seeing as how you say games run fast, then really slow, and then fast again). You could try to reduce in game details just a bit (like lower texture quality or something), and see if improves the slowness issue at all.

[mrhuggles]

any luck?

[Niv]

silly mrhuggles, your answer was posted about 6 posts before your question. If only you've just scanned the forum one tini tiny bit before posting...

the desktop sending was delayed, the shop keeper wanted me to do one final check before I send it in today. He wanted me to install service pack 3 (done that) and update my Nvidia drivers (done that) and check another game to see if the same problem has occured again. Without luck and any doubt... we all know the result all too well.

[ChromeDome]

my money is its due to the 86gt being a poor card (sry bro but it is) the rest of your setup is ok and should do well in most games if you had more gpu power.
i just have time to skim the thread atm so forgive me if i address things already addressed....

i would also like to suggest you look further into getting another card if you want to play games well. now and for the future, a little. who would recommend an 8600GT to you on a brand new build? doesn't make sense that is a low budget card these days. hell when it came out it wasn't so great. i'd hate to see you solve your primary problem only to be disapponited by the fact even if all is ok the card just won't cut it in many games

if cost is a concern get an 8800GS or 9600GSO (same card) if you go nvidia. these are the lowest cost cards that also offer exceptional performance at resolutions between 1280X1024 and 1440X900. they will also do well at 1650X1050 if you turn down the AA or perhaps adjust a setting or two.

speaking of resolution, i wonder how big your monitor is and what resolution you are trying to game at? an 8600GT will lag at even 1280X1024 for many games and will lag severely at higher resolutions and settings. if you want to game at 1680X1050 or above with maximum settings including AA nothing less then a 8800GT 512mb will do imho. if on a budget, as said the 8800GS or 9600GSO. atm an 8800GS can be had for $100 after rebate....a few dollars more for the "superclocked" version. which i recommend if you don't overclock yourself.

the rest of your 'puter is fine. happy gaming....


EDIT: oh silly psychotronn, too!


/goes back six or seven posts

[Niv]

what's AA? what's the difference between 8800GS/9600GSO and 8600GT?

[ChromeDome]

well, AA (anti aisling) smooths out all the "jaggies" in the graphics. this is not a big deal to many as games take a performance hit for it and for many the benefits are not readily apparent. however the overall affect is more refined (less "rough") with smoother looking surfaces on a whole. it gets rid of the "shimmering" many game surfaces have that are actually many tiny jagged lines. at higher resolutions some say AA isn't worth as much, but i like to run it when i can

big difference between a 8600GT and any 8800 series card. or the 9600GSO. i can't tell you the tech details exactly, but the 8600GT is just a much lower performing card. it has less memory, less "shaders" and is a lot slower. i know, i used to have one.

it plays older or less demanding games fine if thats all you play, but when coming up against some games, meh. Bioshock, COD4, Stalker.....all high settings but for me only at 1024X768 with no AA and i still had some lag. Crysis? played it on medium, on high was unplayable.

the lowliest 8800 (8800GS, same as 9600GSO) can play all these games on high and with the exception of Crysis at my native res of 1440X900 and with full AA with performance to spare. its like night and day.

check my specs they are similar to yours. the 5600+ is only around 10% to 12% slower then the 6400+, so i figure you may get similar performance, although i have Vista so yours may be a bit better.

so i'm just sayin', in your first post you said you had "lag." well, even if all is well and fine with your computer, depending on the game, you may still have lag. the 8600GT is half decent, but one of the cards i mentioned will more then double its performance all the while playing at higher resolution and higher settings....and for not much more money.

just something to think about, i suppose. graphics cards are esay to swap out later....however if this is a new compuiter, just built, no reason not to spend just a little more for a lot more performance.


EDIT: only a couple companies make the 8800GS. if you go with it get an evga model. the other model, XFX, is hella' noisy and the fan cannot be adjusted.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130333

after rebate its pretty cheap. and yeah the rebate comes

here is a 9600GSO:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130356

same card, so why pay more?

another GSO:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134046

cheaper, and with a more reasonably sized (single slot) heat sink.

the evga 8800GS i linked is factory overclocked. regular version is just $5 less, so....

and finally, an 8600GT (your card) just $25 less after rebate for A LOT less performance:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130341

[Mussels]

while the cards he speaks of are great, they'll ONLY have with newer games. if you dont play modern games it not worth it.

My vote is for the 9600GT, or 8800GT in that order.

[ChromeDome]

^ i agree with this. the 8600GT (or any card) is fine if it does what you want it to. i don't like to get wrapped up in all the "fastest" stuff if their isn't a need. i stuck with the 8600GT for awhile before "upgrading." it did well while it was with me, and you can always upgrade later, too....

i mentioned the 8800GS or 9600GSO only because you have a low cost card already, and for a little more you can get a lot more performance if its what you need. so if cost is a factor they make sense. if not, always get the most card you can for your money, period

[mrhuggles]

i didnt ask a question, i told you how to find, and solve software problems if they exist <3

ya tho i am really silly :?

[Niv]

i didnt ask a question, i told you how to find, and solve software problems if they exist <3

ya tho i am really silly :?

you're silly cause what you suggested was done 6 postings before yours and the results are posted in .gif and .mpg format.



I've just came back from the shop keeper's place. He told me 2 things that can explain why I can't play any of MY games:
1. My games are too old (for those of you too lazy to read the previous postings here are the games: Warhammer 40K Dark Crusade, Caesar IV, Voyage Century Online) and that the game engine is no longer compatible with my "new and too advanced" video card.
**Dark Crusade is 2~3 years old, Caesar IV 2~3 years old, Voyage Century Online is MMORP that's less than 2 years old.

2. There's something wrong with my windows os (which I already know but was too lazy to fix. it's the iexplore.exe problem)


When asked if he can fix the problem, he told me that he will reinstall my computer with his windows os instead, then the drivers etc. and if the problem is still there after he's messed with it then there's nothing more to do.

When asked if I can get a less "new and advanced" video card to replace my all too special one, he told me that that is not possible because the older ones have all been discontinued and that I can't purchase them anywhere anymore.

I donno, being a computer idiot, I'm all ears for you expert's opinions. What do you think?

[mrhuggles]

i think what i suggested wasnt like that.... what i suggested was useing process explorer to track the actual cpu useage of each individual program to find the culprit

are you talking about cpuz? :? i dont understand at all, but i never read anyone suggesting that you actualy track the cpu useage of all the programs or explain how to do it hmm,... i guess i missed that part sorry :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeF orce_8_series

the 8600 GT is not THAT bad really, 22.4gb/sec memory bandwidth, 4320MP/s 8640MT/s

if i had to guess I'd say its like probably pretty close to being in the range of the 7900GS and x1950pro performance wise

and considering how encredibly bad you suggested programs were running, and these programs being stuff that doesnt have all that terrably high system requirements, I'd wager either you have a bad software problem [can be fixed how i said] or a hardware problem, but i really dont think that the 8600gt being an 8600gt is all THAT bad :P

Caesar IV? that should run great and never mess up

sorry if you missed my first post, it was the one about "process explorer"
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx

[Katanai]

lol. You people are crazy. What world do you live in? I have a 8500GT in my secondary system coupled with a P4, 1.5GB RAM and it plays freaking Unreal Tournament 3 at 1024 with all settings at 4. :laugh: You think that the problem here is that the 8600GT can't play Ceasar??? Many people finished Crysis, Bioshock,you name it, on that card just fine, also his CPU is really fast and he has 3GB RAM. It should tear through those games at all maximum settings. He should wait for the guy to reinstall WinXP or Vista on it and if it's still the same he should make him change it as it's faulty hardware.

[Mussels]

his 'too advanced' comment is a piece of crap. i have an 8800Gt and 8800GTX and play dawn of war just fine.

You have some form of software issue, but it COULD be caused by bad hardware. If the problem stays even after he messes with it, DEMAND a refund and build one yourself.

[Niv]

mrhuggles, sorry looks like I may have misunderstood you :(. Looks like I'm the silly one here. I thought you mean checking the Task Manager since I wasn't sure what your suggestion is and how to perform it.


well... I am thinking of a refound... but what should I be refounding here? So far I've decided that I might go for a better mother board, hard drive and the video card, thus I'll probably refound those 3... anything else I should refound? I did get the whole package for 830CDN, 19" plasma screen all included, still donno if this is a good deal or what.

If I do refound the parts... will you guys help me out with where to purchase the parts, what to purchase and how to put them together? It would be totally awesome if I can get some more help from great people like you :D (what other flattery words can I have here...). Please keep this post filled with suggestions :). Thanks a ton guys.

[Mussels]

My suggestions would be to get an intel system with intel chipset board (asus or gigabyte) as they provide the best performance these days, with either ATI 3850 or Nvidia 9600GT for video.

As an example, my PC is actually rather cheap. (prices are in Au, but similar to Ca)
Asus P5K-E can be had for $160
9600GT for $175
Intel CPU's can go for as low as $80 (this is an overclocking board, so its easy to get say, a 1.8GHz CPU to 2.4GHz and save a lot of money)

To be honest, case and hard drives and so on have little impact on performance - the other hardware can be adjusted to your budget and tastes.

oh and to avoid confusion, please - you have an LCD, not a plasma. I know a lot of people get confused as they are similar in appearance, but they are VERY different in practice.

[Bluefox1115]

Get a refund and build a computer yourself. We'll help you out with whatever you need aside from money. lol

[Niv]

sorry I thought that plasma is the same as LCD, I do know that mine is a LCD model but I thought it's a more "technical name" for plasma. Would it be a good idea to keep my CPU chip? If I remember correctly he sold those to me for only 100 something CDN. (Originally it was only AMD Athlon64 AM2 6000+ Dual Core CPU but he later decided to give me AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6400+ for the same price.)

My suggestions would be to get an intel system with intel chipset board (asus or gigabyte) as they provide the best performance these days, with either ATI 3850 or Nvidia 9600GT for video.

As an example, my PC is actually rather cheap. (prices are in Au, but similar to Ca)
Asus P5K-E can be had for $160
9600GT for $175
Intel CPU's can go for as low as $80 (this is an overclocking board, so its easy to get say, a 1.8GHz CPU to 2.4GHz and save a lot of money)


What do you mean by inter system? Do you mean mother board with intel chipset board? Do you have one model to suggest specificly? What website would be great to order these parts from?

[Mussels]

sorry I thought that plasma is the same as LCD, I do know that mine is a LCD model but I thought it's a more "technical name" for plasma. Would it be a good idea to keep my CPU chip? If I remember correctly he sold those to me for only 100 something CDN. (Originally it was only AMD Athlon64 AM2 6000+ Dual Core CPU but he later decided to give me AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6400+ for the same price.)



What do you mean by inter system? Do you mean mother board with intel chipset board? Do you have one model to suggest specificly? What website would be great to order these parts from?

i have no idea where you could get them. i'm not canadian. Yes i mean intel system - intel based motherboard with intel CPU, if you return the whole thing.

While the 6400+ you have is good, the latest intels are simply better. *IF* you can return the whole thing, go intel if you cant, or choose the keep the 6400+, we can design a system around that.

[mrhuggles]

i really <3 my cpu/motehrboard to death, but you could do alot better with something with a little more pep and a more user friendly board, also you could get a more modern board too [than mine]

or if you wanna save money, a cheaper one :P

i sugggest a 100 ish dollar gigabyte board, and a 65 ish dollar core2duo


oops i forgot to say, the instructions i gave you were really simple i thought, if u wanna try it lemme know and i can try to give you some uhh, better[?] instructions, its a pretty easy and usefull thing to do, it will come in handy for you the rest of your life, or as long as you consort with those of the computer race.

[Mussels]

i really <3 my cpu/motehrboard to death, but you could do alot better with something with a little more pep and a more user friendly board, also you could get a more modern board too [than mine]

or if you wanna save money, a cheaper one :P

i sugggest a 100 ish dollar gigabyte board, and a 65 ish dollar core2duo

i've got the P5K-E, which is quite a step up from the P5K you have. The overclocking is a lot easier and more stable.

A good motherboard, ram and PSU should be the top of the design - you can overclock a cheap CPU, but if you cheap out on those main three... you're screwed.

[mrhuggles]

i dissagree [at a first glance], i looked at your board and it looked like it had the same heatpipe+heatsinks as mine, mine is the p5k not the p5k se

mine is stable at overclocking and has all the same options

biggest difference is prolly raid ICH9R mine is ICH9 but, that shouldnt effect overclocking much right

thats weird i just noticed, my heatsink on mine is a little different than the normal p5k's mine is the one from the E like yours, it looks like the one on the normal ones is sorta junky looking, thats weird. looked it up on newegg yay for their pics

[Niv]

well, mrhuggles please enlighten me then :) How do I perform the technic that you're talking about?

The shop keeper says that he'll need a few days to mess with it (donno what he's doing that can take up to couple days with it). I'm thinking of keeping my CPU (~$100) and RAM (~$70) and let lose the motherboard and the hard drive. What are the things that a buyer should consider when buying a motherboard? How do you manage a over clocking board? Do you need to set something up in BIOS for it or it just comes with the motherboard?

[Beertintedgoggles]

Just for the hell of it, have you checked all of your temps when this happens?

[Niv]

yes 35C~40C

[JrRacinFan]

As a test, I don't expect you to keep it like this but, disable all sound acceleration and try gaming again to see if the problem persists.

Push windows key + r, type in "dxdiag" and run that. Go to the sound tab and move that slider all the way to the left. Attempt that and report back.

[Niv]

I'd love to but I'd have to wait till I get my desktop back :)

[JrRacinFan]

Ahhh, ok. Well i tried! ;)

[LonGun]

This happened to me before. So I went and removed all the RAM sticks and use only 1 at a time (also try install it in different slot on MB) and retried the game. Found out my 3rd RAM stick is a bad one. If you haven't tried that, go for it.

[mrhuggles]

re: picking out a motherboard, I'd go with whatever mussles says is the best you can get for the money you have. heh.

and here is a repast of the post i made, if you have any trouble understanding any of it please be spesific. it seems easy enough for me to understand
note: process explorer is a program called "process explorer" and by view i mean go to the view drop down menu dealy.




get process explorer, and load it

view, select columns, process performance tab, check CPU History.

view, check show new processes

let this run for a while, while your playing things, watch for it to slow down then get outa the game and look in it, in the little graphs, these graphs to the right of each process show each processes cpu useage history, im hopeing you can figure out what to do from here

[Niv]

LonGun, I only have 2 RAM sticks, sorry I should have changed it but I forgot, I have 4GB ram from 2x 2GB RAM sticks

mrhuggles, it's all clear now thanks :). I'll go test this out with my laptop, since my desktop is away on vacation break.

[mrhuggles]

i hope that works out for you man, if nothing else its a very handy thing to be able to do yay

[Niv]

k newest update from the shopkeeper. He's solved the problem, apparently my CPU is "too new" and that was the sources of the problem. He's replaced it with a much lower one, and now everything works. I will be picking up the machine tomorrow to confirm this. I will see how the machine works then decide if I want some other upgrade or not.

[Luke]

it probably only needed a bios update

[mrhuggles]

dude thats the most discusting thing ive heard in years it sounds like you just got ripped off.

[hat]

k newest update from the shopkeeper. He's solved the problem, apparently my CPU is "too new" and that was the sources of the problem. He's replaced it with a much lower one, and now everything works. I will be picking up the machine tomorrow to confirm this. I will see how the machine works then decide if I want some other upgrade or not.

You totally got ripped off. Get your old cpu back and do a BIOS update.
:shadedshu at people like this.

[Luke]

nearly as bad as my brothers pc
the shop keeper wired the front usb ports wrong and it fried his usb drive
and he ripped him off in every way as well

but yeah get your cpu back and do a bios update because you got ripped

[ChromeDome]

k newest update from the shopkeeper. He's solved the problem, apparently my CPU is "too new" and that was the sources of the problem. He's replaced it with a much lower one, and now everything works. I will be picking up the machine tomorrow to confirm this. I will see how the machine works then decide if I want some other upgrade or not.
this "shopkeeper" sounds like a dolt. i'm sure he is a nice fellow, but....

how much did you pay for you original machine and how much are you paying for this next one?

a 6400+ "too new." mainstream desktop dual core technology doesn't get much older! at least for us end users.

a "much lower" chip? this makes me anxious for you :(

post your exact specs plz. of the new machine, i mean

should have bought a Dell :slap:

[Niv]

T_T, I'm so exploited... well here's the invoice from the new desktop:

AMD AM2 4800+ x2 2.5GHz CPU
ASUS M2NVM-DVI Motherboard
Transcend 2GB x2 Memory
Seagate 80G Sata 7200rpm HDD
14" 450w Tower Case
EVGA 8600GT 512M DDR3 Video Card
Samsung 19" 920WM LCD Monitor
total 790 CDN

[Niv]

extra note... I kinda hope that you guys would have told me this earlier. I've just got my machine back... unless this is something extremely bad or unless you guys are absolutely sure that this is a BIOS problem... I don't think I'll be traveling an extra 3km to the shop through bus for this... so far the machine seems to be working.

[hat]

you got a 700 megaHURTS ripoff
even if the origional pc was bad they should replace it with identical hardware free of charge, or else it's ripoff

[Niv]

oh for those of you who wants to do a comparison between the old stat and the new stat, I leave my old stat on my specs. the total value I paid for the old one is 830 CDN. Tell me what you thinks thnks.

[Niv]

0_0 I think there's a mis-understanding. I didn't pay the $790. I got $60 back from my CPU down grade. the $790 is the current valuce of my desktop according to the shopkeeper.

[hat]

oh ok then. Overclock the current cpu to 3.2GHz :rockout:

[Niv]

o_0 won't the blow the CPU?


... and how do you do that? <_< >_>

[dark2099]

I had that same CPU at 3.125ghz OCed, probably had more in it, just didn't know too much about overclocking, usually done through the BIOS. There is a guide on here and we can surely help. The only thing about overclocking is eventually you have to increase the voltage for the CPU which generates more heat, and since you probably have a stock heatsink on the CPU, going to far would be bad.

[Niv]

I'll think of over clocking after I hear more opinions on people about how justified my current desktop is comparing to the price. I'm thinking seriously about whether to return the mother board, CPU and Video card or not. Hesitating right now because I'm not sure how I'll be able to benefit from this. After that consideration I'll then have to talk to the shopkeeper to see if he'll let me return those parts for whatever reasons I can think up of.

[Mussels]

you could return it and get a faster, more reliable PC for the money.

the PSU you mention sounds like it came with the case, which is a massive screaming no-no in the PC world... thats like trying to feed people microwaved food in a restaurant - the quality difference is massive, and it may well kill people.

[Niv]

mussels, I don't understand. Is there something wrong with my case also? Can someone gimme a list of things which they believe I should return followed by a list of what I should get myself from on-line stores? Why is the PSU bad?

[mrhuggles]

new cpu and motherboard, as far as psus i suggest a seasonic or one based on a seasonic like mine, well mine is a bit expensive for what you get... but its not bad for sure. but u could get a real seasonic for cheaper. [i got mine cuz i was impacient and at the time its what was there] (yes i do realize i cant spell impacient) *or spell spell* heh

[ChromeDome]

I'll think of over clocking after I hear more opinions on people about how justified my current desktop is comparing to the price. I'm thinking seriously about whether to return the mother board, CPU and Video card or not. Hesitating right now because I'm not sure how I'll be able to benefit from this. After that consideration I'll then have to talk to the shopkeeper to see if he'll let me return those parts for whatever reasons I can think up verof.
that would be a good place to start. a return, i mean.

this is somehow sad because i hate to think you're a real person perhaps not being taken advantage of maliciously, but being taken advantage of nonetheless. for whatever reason.

you paid $776 American, if i got the exchange rate correct? and i think i did. that is a ridiculous amount for what you got. now the shopkeeper has to consider his labor and time put in....so you are paying for that, too. fair enough. but this computer isn't worth a "custom" build at this point. quite honestly, this is something you build for well under $500 on an inexpensive mobo and budget parts. its not really something to pay someone else to do for you. and if you do they should do a little better job picking parts for you.

the 6400+ was a fine processor that while old tech would have done well for you now and sometime into the future. it gives decent raw performance. the 4800+, a lot less so. now around here you'll read a lot about overclocking and what not, but even overclocked this processor is not a good value for you. the video card is decent for what it is, and lousy for what it isn't. the HD is painfully small, the mobo sturdy but budget.

basically you paid someone to build an underpowered and outdated computer for you. now....i'm not saying it won't do what you want it to (like play those less demanding games) and won't give you adequate desktop performance. its not a terrible piece of junk. but try doing some things with it other then basic gaming / computing / internet tasks and while it won't chug or fail, things take somewhat longer to get done compared to more powerful mainstream computers these days. and its not upgradable. you already had AMD's most powerful dual core in there with the 6400+. and for the amount you paid the "shopkeeper" should have at least given you a lower end 8800 or 9600 series card. it would make a big difference to you and its the right thing to do for the money spent.


computers are about speed and power, sure. but they are just as much about price and value and getting all you can for as little $ as you possibly can. even if you have the money to blow, its like an art form. get all you can out of it without putting more (ie money) into it. and if you put a lot in, get the most you can out. people on this board choose carefully over their parts at whatever price point they are at. you should, too. in the future. and come to places like this and pay attention BEFORE you buy. could save you some headaches.

these days unless you are building your own, or have the money to blow getting a custom rig done that is somewhat beyond your build skill, i say buy a box. you don't sound as if you'll be overclocking soon, and even if so thats not really the processor to do it with these days. you have little or no upgrade path with this computer. at least with a box maker value and speed often come with the territory these days. if not overclocking or a HIGH performance junkie who likes to tweak, modify, etc (like many here) a pre built is a sound choice for a newbie.

for around $20 or $30 more then you paid in Canada i can get a pre built box here in the States with an Intel E8300, 320 gig HD, same vid card, bluetooth, wireless internet, same amount of RAM, same size monitor, etc. one year warranty, on site service, tech support, etc. and yes, that is a substantially better machine in a couple of very important areas. i'm not sure what availability and prices are like in Canada, but i doubt many pay upwards of $800 for the computer you bought. at least i hope not :(

anyway just try to get all your money back if you can. return it, maybe? if not be happy with it for now and what it does for you. until you aren't happy any more. in the future drop a better vid card in, maybe. will make a big difference depending on what you're doing with it.

this post is kind of long and i hope i haven't stated anything too strongly or made you feel bad somehow about your purchase or your computer. but i have a story like this (about a couple of things not just a computer lol) just like some others on the board when we were first getting to know things about this stuff. it made me feel kinda dumb, so i figured i should know a little more about it. guess you could say i got hooked :roll:


so welcome to the world of computers, building, and hardware. its fun once you get the hang of it :p

[Niv]

no don't worry about offending me. I doubt that any of you here is doing so on purpose. Well even if you are I don't think I'd be able to catch it all that easilly anyway. lol

k from what I can understand right now from the suggestions so far. I should return my computer for as much as possible ESPECIALLY the CPU and the mother board. I will try my best to see how much of a roll back I can do with my eloquence (while lacking the computer knowledge I still know at least how to reason my way getting my money back). I will try and get this process started today, Friday. If there's one thing that I beneficially lack, it's a feeling of embarassment. I will try whatever it takes to make sure that this whole fiascal doesn't end the way it is right now, a fiascal. This will probably make you guys even more angry, but the $790 price is infact without TAX. Essentially what happened is, if I pay for the whole desktop + monitor in cash (which I did with many $100 and $20 bills) I don't have to pay the tax part. Meaning, if I didn't do that the whole thing would cost at least $850 easilly. He infact told me that this is a "new and top end desktop". In fact the only reason I was ever interested in purchasing the desktop in the first place was for the brand new CPU which he upgraded free of charge. But since that's not the case anymore (with the crappy CPU), my favour has dropped significantly. Thus, I digress no further, I will try and see how much of the desktop I can return.

The most interesting suggestion I have atm is to just buy an entirely new "Box" which I take as in a pre-made ready-to-be-taken-home desktop. I've orginally thought of this, but seeing the prices that these stores are chargin; ranging from $800~900 CDN, I have trouble telling which desktop is infact superior and better. My original desktop purchase plan was this, get a desktop that's mediocre in every aspect (but upgradable later) except the top end Mobo, CPU and video card. (The reason my desktop in the end ended with only the CPU being better is because 1, I was told that the Mobo isn't important at all with desktop performance and 2, my video card is already near the top end) Infact when I first purchased the desktop, it was without hard drive, without dvd-drive for I have these parts pre-purchased as external wares currently in-use wth my laptop.

I thank PsychoTronn for telling me that many parts on this desktop are not upgradable (for reasons I do not know but I trust your opinion), for this defeates my first priority purchasing a desktop. If this desktop is dead the way it is (and the fact that it'll make me unhappy untill it finally breaks), I believe also that I'm better off getting a new one or at least get as much improvements with the current one as possible.

All those been said, I have been suggested Video cards which I can change with. Can anyone also add in the mother board and the CPU model which I can purchase change with? It would be best if I can get the price of the suggested hardwares along with the on-line sites that sells them reliablely.

Mr. Huggles, what is a seasonic? And why is PSU important and how is mine bad?

I'm here not for words that comfort me of my bad purchasing decisions and poor computer knowledge; I am here, for brilliant advices from experts like you and for learning "the world of computers, building, and hardware", hoping that one day, I will enjoy the fun, once I get the hang of it. :)

keep the suggestions flowing, I check the forum every 6 hours if not sooner.

[tkpenalty]

no don't worry about offending me. I doubt that any of you here is doing so on purpose. Well even if you are I don't think I'd be able to catch it all that easilly anyway. lol

k from what I can understand right now from the suggestions so far. I should return my computer for as much as possible ESPECIALLY the CPU and the mother board. I will try my best to see how much of a roll back I can do with my eloquence (while lacking the computer knowledge I still know at least how to reason my way getting my money back). I will try and get this process started today, Friday. If there's one thing that I beneficially lack, it's a feeling of embarassment. I will try whatever it takes to make sure that this whole fiascal doesn't end the way it is right now, a fiascal. This will probably make you guys even more angry, but the $790 price is infact without TAX. Essentially what happened is, if I pay for the whole desktop + monitor in cash (which I did with many $100 and $20 bills) I don't have to pay the tax part. Meaning, if I didn't do that the whole thing would cost at least $850 easilly. He infact told me that this is a "new and top end desktop". In fact the only reason I was ever interested in purchasing the desktop in the first place was for the brand new CPU which he upgraded free of charge. But since that's not the case anymore (with the crappy CPU), my favour has dropped significantly. Thus, I digress no further, I will try and see how much of the desktop I can return.

The most interesting suggestion I have atm is to just buy an entirely new "Box" which I take as in a pre-made ready-to-be-taken-home desktop. I've orginally thought of this, but seeing the prices that these stores are chargin; ranging from $800~900 CDN, I have trouble telling which desktop is infact superior and better. My original desktop purchase plan was this, get a desktop that's mediocre in every aspect (but upgradable later) except the top end Mobo, CPU and video card. (The reason my desktop in the end ended with only the CPU being better is because 1, I was told that the Mobo isn't important at all with desktop performance and 2, my video card is already near the top end) Infact when I first purchased the desktop, it was without hard drive, without dvd-drive for I have these parts pre-purchased as external wares currently in-use wth my laptop.

I thank PsychoTronn for telling me that many parts on this desktop are not upgradable (for reasons I do not know but I trust your opinion), for this defeates my first priority purchasing a desktop. If this desktop is dead the way it is (and the fact that it'll make me unhappy untill it finally breaks), I believe also that I'm better off getting a new one or at least get as much improvements with the current one as possible.

All those been said, I have been suggested Video cards which I can change with. Can anyone also add in the mother board and the CPU model which I can purchase change with? It would be best if I can get the price of the suggested hardwares along with the on-line sites that sells them reliablely.

Mr. Huggles, what is a seasonic? And why is PSU important and how is mine bad?

I'm here not for words that comfort me of my bad purchasing decisions and poor computer knowledge; I am here, for brilliant advices from experts like you and for learning "the world of computers, building, and hardware", hoping that one day, I will enjoy the fun, once I get the hang of it. :)

keep the suggestions flowing, I check the forum every 6 hours if not sooner.

Our suggestion was, return the system and get a full refund for it, THEN buy from a more reliable location under our advice.

[Mussels]

mobo, PSU, and ram are the oens you want best. Its easy to overclock a CPU if those three are good.

The key is to get the best of the least-upgradeable parts. For example you can always run a 2nd hard drive, or another 2 sticks of ram - but if you buy a new CPU or video card later, you're gunna have to sell, or toss away the old one.

This means the core system should be as good as possible. By a case that suits your needs. Buy a powerful PSU of a quality brand (Antec are good here, they're the only brand that come with a PSU, that is worth having.)
get an overclocking motherboard with OC'able ram (take my system as an example) you can throw any old CPU that fits, and OC the heck out of it (my mobo takes 400FSB chips at stock. it can OC past 500. Most cheap intels are 200, to 266. That means i can (in theory) double the FSB, and double the speeds of these cheap CPU's - other factors come into it but if you can buy a 1.8GHz core 2 duo (The E2160) for $75 and then overclock it to 3GHz... you just saved a lot of money, that you can spend elsewhere.

[mrhuggles]

if it were me i would not get a premade computer, that having been said if you are 100% too scared to put a motherboard in a case, and a cpu in a motherboard, they have barebone computers at places like newegg

[Niv]

Our suggestion was, return the system and get a full refund for it, THEN buy from a more reliable location under our advice.

well, following the advices given from you guys, I've managed to arrange a return of the following (excluding some yelling and unhappy comments):
the Case
DVD-burner
Hard drive
CPU
Mothboard
Total amount refounded: around $280

The video card costs about 125 (which I've just found out is a ridiculously high price) , the monitor about 215 +12 recycling fee.

No tax is included, cause eveything is paid in cash (meaning no tracable income... sounds like money laundaring)

Unfortunately I can't get the refound for the video card because it was ordered from the factory and was shiped then have the package opened and discarded. :( boo

I'm keeping the RAM chip and the Monitor since no one has said any nonoes to those and the price seems pretty reasonable. (RAM is $70 btw)

I will refound everything tomorrow. (Really a pain to keep track of these numbers since I wasn't giving a invoice with price tags or a receit with everything listed out. Very shady... yes.)

new cpu and motherboard, as far as psus i suggest a seasonic or one based on a seasonic like mine, well mine is a bit expensive for what you get... but its not bad for sure. but u could get a real seasonic for cheaper. [i got mine cuz i was impacient and at the time its what was there] (yes i do realize i cant spell impacient) *or spell spell* heh

I'm absolutely in your hands now. From tomorrow on I wil have only 1/5 of my nightmare desktop. I do have a gist of how to buy a desktop, or at least what I should aim for. However, I don't recognize any of the model numbers or the brand names for which is better. For example I don't understand why PSU is important, for example what's seasonic? Furthermore, I have trouble understanding the prices for the relative hardwares since I'm as you all know inexperienced. As many of you know, I've been ripped off (somewhat) and it would be nice if I don't get ripped off the second time in 2 months.

My suggestions would be to get an intel system with intel chipset board (asus or gigabyte) as they provide the best performance these days, with either ATI 3850 or Nvidia 9600GT for video.

As an example, my PC is actually rather cheap. (prices are in Au, but similar to Ca)
Asus P5K-E can be had for $160
9600GT for $175
Intel CPU's can go for as low as $80 (this is an overclocking board, so its easy to get say, a 1.8GHz CPU to 2.4GHz and save a lot of money)


I still have trouble understanding what exactly makes a mobo "good" and how can I tell if it's overclocking or not. Got any model number to suggest with some kind of price info? A suggested place or website to purchase from?

if it were me i would not get a premade computer, that having been said if you are 100% too scared to put a motherboard in a case, and a cpu in a motherboard, they have barebone computers at places like newegg

Don't worry about me not being able to piece things together, in the worst case I'll just find someone else (like you guys) to help. I have a general bad feeling about pre-made computers too that's why I tried to have a custom build. Mistake I made was to have it done in a store. What's a barebone computer? What does it has?

[Niv]

oh btw should I be starting this in a new thread instead? :( I mean we're no longer talking about having problems with game playing or anything reletive to that....

[mrhuggles]

are too.

[Mussels]

yeah its ok. this thread is still about you, and wanting to fix your PC. replacing the parts is fixing it.

[Niv]

yeah its ok. this thread is still about you, and wanting to fix your PC. replacing the parts is fixing it.

thanks :). If that's the case, can we start getting a list of hardwares that I should look into?
Any model number, make for any of the following, if I can get as much info/ choices as possible that would be great:
Case/Tower
Mobo
CPU
Harddrive
Fans

It would be best if I can have the "good" prices also listed with the hardwares followed by the places that sells them. I don't mean to rush, but I would prefer to have another desktop ready for service before the end of July. Thanks :). If anyone also have a suggest place for computer purchasing that would be awesome too.

[Mussels]

No idea on prices and locations - thats hard, i'm not from your country.
Hardware - you can simply look at systems here for good suggestions.

My advice for a solid, reliable system is the following because i have used all these parts together and KNOW they work great.
remember that this is advice. i've been building cost effective systems for friends lately, but as prices will vary between where you are and where i am, there may be cheaper alternatives.

Asus P5K-E wifi (you can go the non wifi model, but its handy)
Core 2 Duo E2160 (they overclock VERY easily on this board. stupidly easy.)
Xigmatek 92mm or 120mm CPU cooler for more OC.
2GB DDR2 ram (800MHz at least, preferably corsair or OCZ)
Nvidia 9600GT video card (Palit sonic edition, 4x outputs is excellent)
Antec sonata designer w/ 500W earthwatts PSU

After that, its peripherals - mouse, keyboard, screen and so on.

[ChromeDome]

if it were me i would not get a premade computer, that having been said if you are 100% too scared to put a motherboard in a case, and a cpu in a motherboard, they have barebone computers at places like newegg
i understand this reasoning. but for a newbie unfamiliar with overclocking and who just wants a reliable machine sometimes its the best choice

my first computer was a premade computer and i got my start from doing simple things like RAM upgrades, vid card, HD, sound card, PS...you get the picture

i was too intimidated (this was back in the p4 days) to get into overclocking, bios, bulding, etc. i knew if i blew something out, well, thats my time and money down the drain. so it was a good place for me to start.

and the deals are good sometimes. one maker had a q6600 with 3 gigs of RAM and a 500 gig HD on sale for $499 recently. two day sale...can't beat that with a stick. drop a vid card in and you're good to go. no overclocking ability, but some won't do that, anyway

[Niv]

Asus P5K-E wifi (you can go the non wifi model, but its handy)
Core 2 Duo E2160 (they overclock VERY easily on this board. stupidly easy.)
Xigmatek 92mm or 120mm CPU cooler for more OC.
2GB DDR2 ram (800MHz at least, preferably corsair or OCZ)
Nvidia 9600GT video card (Palit sonic edition, 4x outputs is excellent)
Antec sonata designer w/ 500W earthwatts PSU


thanks for the immediate suggestions: I have 4 quick questions.

1) What is wifi, and how is it helpful?
2) My roomate told me that overclocking is extremely harmful to CPU and that while doing so increases the power, it ultimately means a short lived CPU. How is this true/ false?
3) Since I don't know whether to keep my Current RAM, Transcend 2GB JETRAM DDR2 @ 667MHz, or not. Can you tell me what the difference would be between the RAM you suggested and the one that I currently have? (I'm mainly confused by the 800MHz (RAM speed?))
4) Is PSU (Power Source unit?) a build-in part of your desktop's case or is it something additional which you add in later? (This is my first time hearing about PSU in this forum, so I ultimately what effects it has.)

[Niv]

i understand this reasoning. but for a newbie unfamiliar with overclocking and who just wants a reliable machine sometimes its the best choice

my first computer was a premade computer and i got my start from doing simple things like RAM upgrades, vid card, HD, sound card, PS...you get the picture

i was too intimidated (this was back in the p4 days) to get into overclocking, bios, bulding, etc. i knew if i blew something out, well, thats my time and money down the drain. so it was a good place for me to start.


I must be honest that I'm a bit intimidated also, however I believe that if I'm going to be a serious computer user (which I plan to be) then I'm better off starting now than never. If it wasn't for this commitment, I would still be happy with whatever desktop that I've purchased and is returning right now.

[mrhuggles]

it really depends on the CPU you get, like i got an e2140, those are 1.6ghz by default, what i have it clocked at right now, 2.66ghz thats very very safe, i even lowered the voltage a little from default and it was still ok, some chips are like that, and some are already almost as far as they will go already, its really hitting or getting close to as fast as itl go that would wear it out quickly

e2140 isnt really much faster than what you had befor [overclocked] but its cheap.
your prolly better off with something faster, and you prolly wont need wifi but i know the p5k-e is a really great motherbored, and cheap too for what you get, thats for sure

[ChromeDome]

I must be honest that I'm a bit intimidated also, however I believe that if I'm going to be a serious computer user (which I plan to be) then I'm better off starting now than never. If it wasn't for this commitment, I would still be happy with whatever desktop that I've purchased and is returning right now.

a good place to star then is: how much money do you have to spend...and what do you want to do with your computer? now and in the future?

i hope the shopkeeper is ok with this. its not that what he built was terrible (although i can think of no reason to "downgrade" you from the 6400+ to the 4800+) its just part of what you paid for was for him to build it. and at this point to have an AMD machine built with a 4800+ and an 8600GT just isn't cost effective because of the labor charge involved. i understand the man has to make a profit. even off the parts...

...but still, for the same price or a little more he could have taken into consideration to tell you that other more viable hardware is available for a little more money (or the same) that would do you more good as time goes on.

i'm sure he is a good guy, and business is business, but thats just what i would have done.

hope it all works out

[DaedalusHelios]

That place you bought the computer from is breaking laws all over the place. I would sue. ;)

A registered business offering to sell you something tax free is illegal. In the US that stuff gets you audited in a heartbeat.

I am deeply sorry you ran into a bunch of scam artists. :(

That businesses handling of the return, is incredibly unprofessional. I am surprised someone can do survive with such misleading business practices.

[Niv]

Right and of course I've forgotten something most important here, what I want to do with my computer:
1) Hardcore gamming
2) Video editing rendering (final cut, windows movie maker etc.)
3) Macromedia flash processing
4) Sound, music rendering (ex. Fruity Loop, Sibelius etc.)
5) 3D Rendering (ex. blender (this is still being explored))

Those are my 5 main goals for the new computer.

btw, I have nothing against the shopkeeper really other than the fact that he 100% of the time force shoved his opinion on me. I asked him about the video card he told me it was the best in the store. I asked him about the CPU he told me it was too new for my games. When asked why, 9/10 he just says "I don't know".

I've just found this fully build computer from this website here: http://www.genericcomputer.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=6865

What do you guys think of it? Should I try swapping parts or should I start clean? This store is on my way back from the other one, I can definitly walk in ask a couple questions. I also plan to pay a visit to NCIX afterward where I usually order my laptop purchases.

[DaedalusHelios]

Man, if you lived near me I would build you one free of charge. I would just help you order the parts. To bad you don't live anywhere close. :( It only takes a day to build one and load all the software you listed.

NCIX would be much better. ;)

[Niv]

Man, if you lived near me I would build you one free of charge. I would just help you order the parts. To bad you don't live anywhere close. :( It only takes a day to build one and load all the software you listed.

NCIX would be much better. ;)

NCIX is offering too many options and I'm getting confused. X( can you perhaps post one which you think will be good for my purpose? My price range is very wide. between 600~750 is good. Don't need keyboard, monitor, speaker, mouse etc. I've got all those covered already.

[Niv]

Man, if you lived near me I would build you one free of charge. I would just help you order the parts. To bad you don't live anywhere close. :( It only takes a day to build one and load all the software you listed.


If you wish, let me know what are the parts that you plan to order, the websites or places where you will get them from, the final price. I can do the ordering part following your suggestions and i can surely find someone to help me put those things together. I have the softwares btw, I use them on my laptop. I need a desktop cause I'm over burdening my laptop and I need the laptop for something else.

[DaedalusHelios]

If you wish, let me know what are the parts that you plan to order, the websites or places where you will get them from, the final price. I can do the ordering part following your suggestions and i can surely find someone to help me put those things together. I have the softwares btw, I use them on my laptop. I need a desktop cause I'm over burdening my laptop and I need the laptop for something else.

Add me on Aim firelizard1337 and I will guide you through it. I am off of work tomorrow so I can help you as much as you need tonight. ;)

[Niv]

em.... how do I add... you? This is like my 3rd or 4th time ever using a forum, so I'm as noob as anyone really can be...

[DaedalusHelios]

em.... how do I add... you? This is like my 3rd or 4th time ever using a forum, so I'm as noob as anyone really can be...

AIM is an instant messenger... or do you use yahoo messenger?

[ChromeDome]

Right and of course I've forgotten something most important here, what I want to do with my computer:
1) Hardcore gamming
2) Video editing rendering (final cut, windows movie maker etc.)
3) Macromedia flash processing
4) Sound, music rendering (ex. Fruity Loop, Sibelius etc.)
5) 3D Rendering (ex. blender (this is still being explored))

Those are my 5 main goals for the new computer.

btw, I have nothing against the shopkeeper really other than the fact that he 100% of the time force shoved his opinion on me. I asked him about the video card he told me it was the best in the store. I asked him about the CPU he told me it was too new for my games. When asked why, 9/10 he just says "I don't know".

I've just found this fully build computer from this website here: http://www.genericcomputer.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=6865

What do you guys think of it? Should I try swapping parts or should I start clean? This store is on my way back from the other one, I can definitly walk in ask a couple questions. I also plan to pay a visit to NCIX afterward where I usually order my laptop purchases.

well, its not bad. that computer could be built for around $600 doing it yourself with inexpensive but solid hardware, so its not bad. trouble is it has no monitor or OS. and at $700 already, plus tax and what you have to put into it, if you are going prebuilt....its very pricey.

when buying prebuilt its always good to go with a maker who can give you the best "bang for your buck." these are usually the larger vendors such as Dell, Gateway, etc. for example for $739 with an e coupon at Dell America you can get this atm:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7698/15472437ey5.jpg

thats a good value and with monitor and OS included you could not build it cheaper, most likely. now you won't get to overclock the processor, etc...but with an E8300 you wouldn't need to. the vid card is lacking but you could easily order other stuff on the computer instead and add your own later, or simply make due with it until you couldn't any longer.

maybe things just cost more in Canada :confused:

i'm not saying get a premade...however if you do look for something like this, (Intel, etc) OS and monitor should be included. a smaller builder like the one you linked can't really do that. and although their system might be set up to tweak and overclock, again, because its an AMD X2 based system you have little room for any of that or to upgrade the processor later. its not a bad computer and it would do what you want (look at my specs) its just not a good value or very....desirable atm

i'm not an AMD vs Intel guy, i think thats stupid. but if you are buying now, other then a budget build / purchase, intel is the way to go imo. if the computer you linked came with a nice monitor and OS for around $800 i would probably say 'if that is what is available to you, go for it.' but if you had more choices, i would explore them, most definitely.

also for your purposes (what you posted you wan