• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

GTA4 = SecuROM 7

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.78/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
newtekie, I mean no offense by this, but why are you so protective of DRM? No matter what you say to defend the latest Securom scheme, the fact of the matter is that it's another hoop to jump thru, and has the potential of more things going wrong. Why would you support something that could take your rights to play a game you bought away at any time?
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
7,198 (1.11/day)
System Name ICE-QUAD // ICE-CRUNCH
Processor Q6600 // 2x Xeon 5472
Memory 2GB DDR // 8GB FB-DIMM
Video Card(s) HD3850-AGP // FireGL 3400
Display(s) 2 x Samsung 204Ts = 3200x1200
Audio Device(s) Audigy 2
Software Windows Server 2003 R2 as a Workstation now migrated to W10 with regrets.
(cont) not only that, why do you say there is no DRM running in the background, when YES there is. Why do you say there is no need for specifal permission, when yes you do.

Try running lockdown security on your OS, have SpyBot running, and McAfee Enterprise 8.x. Then perhaps you'll understand (and see) all the crap that is being forced "under" your game install.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,472 (4.22/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
newtekie, I mean no offense by this, but why are you so protective of DRM? No matter what you say to defend the latest Securom scheme, the fact of the matter is that it's another hoop to jump thru, and has the potential of more things going wrong. Why would you support something that could take your rights to play a game you bought away at any time?

Because I understand the need for it, I was a software developer for ~5 years after I graduated college, and I understand the need for DRM.

I really dislike people bashing something they know little about, and I really hate when they make false claims about it.

I'm not defending the latest SecuROM scheme, in fact I have previous stated that I think it is pretty useless and stupid. I'm defending SecuROM 7, which has been around for years, and actually works as a copy protection scheme. It does what it is designed to do, and it does it pretty damn well actually.

Now, as for taking your right to play the game away from you at any time, that is simply one of those unfounded false claims. SecuROM 7 uses activation during install, and only when the publisher want to, for the most part it is still just used as a copy protection scheme without activation. And when activation is used, the general public usually has no problems. However, obvously this isn't always the case, and yes problems are bound to arise from time to time. However, they are usually very isolated, and rare. Obvously, if the product has been activated too many times, then the legit user suffers. However, placing the blaim on the DRM isn't proper, the blaim goes on the source of the multiple activations. Usually, it is the result of the key being used by pirates, blaim the pirates, not the DRM.

(cont) not only that, why do you say there is no DRM running in the background, when YES there is. Why do you say there is no need for specifal permission, when yes you do.

Try running lockdown security on your OS, have SpyBot running, and McAfee Enterprise 8.x. Then perhaps you'll understand (and see) all the crap that is being forced "under" your game install.

No, in the case of SecuROM 7, it isn't running in the background, it is embedded in the software's EXE. No background here, the EXE you run is the DRM running, the game EXE itself is running the checks.

And trust me, my security on my OS is probably more locked down than yours. SecuROM 7 doesn't trigger any of it, except for the game EXE accessing the internet when I run it on certain games, which usually happens anyway since most of the games are multiplayer. Sometimes, like in the case of Fallout 3 which uses SecuROM 7 also, the activation happens once and only once and it is actually the installer EXE that is doing it, not the game EXE, once the installer EXE activates the game, it never bothers me again.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
I'm defending SecuROM 7, which has been around for years, and actually works as a copy protection scheme. It does what it is designed to do, and it does it pretty damn well actually.
Hate to break your funny bone but no, it doesn't do what it is designed to do. I have played dozens of SecuROM 7 protected games by circumventing its protection. In fact, it hasn't stopped me from playing any game protected by it. Hell, even Star-Force 3 and Tages hasn't stopped me and they're insanely good at what they do (takes months to break programmatically) but clearly, even they aren't even good enough to stop someone that is determined.

I don't want to use a disk to run my games and by God I won't.
 
Last edited:

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,472 (4.22/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Hate to break your funny bone but no, it doesn't do what it is designed to do. I have played dozens of SecuROM 7 protected games by circumventing its protection. In fact, it hasn't stopped me from playing any game protected by it. Hell, even Star-Force 3 and Tages hasn't stopped me and they're insanely good at what they do (takes months to break programmatically) but clearly, even they aren't even good enough to stop someone that is determined.

I don't want to use a disk to run my games and by God I won't.

It wasn't meant to stop competent pirates, if you know they exist, then you aren't the ones they are meant to stop. The copy protections are meant to stop the "casual" pirate, the ones that believe you can just burn a copy of the disc and give it to a friend and it sould work. Those are the ones it is meant to stop. They aren't designed to go beyond that.

Do you really think the software industry is stupid enough to believe that any of these copy protections are stopping competent pirates.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
As high as 80-90% of game copies are pirated according to game publisher 2D Boy. Most studies mirror that statistic. So, who are these "casual" pirates? They are certainly less than 20% of those that play the game. I'd argue it is as low as 1%. The "casual" pirates are merely transitioning to "competent." XD
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
7,198 (1.11/day)
System Name ICE-QUAD // ICE-CRUNCH
Processor Q6600 // 2x Xeon 5472
Memory 2GB DDR // 8GB FB-DIMM
Video Card(s) HD3850-AGP // FireGL 3400
Display(s) 2 x Samsung 204Ts = 3200x1200
Audio Device(s) Audigy 2
Software Windows Server 2003 R2 as a Workstation now migrated to W10 with regrets.
:roll:

your link said:
90% PIRACY

first, and most importantly, how we came up with this number: the game allows players to have their high scores reported to our server (it’s an optional checkbox). we record each score and the IP from which it came. we divided the total number of sales we had from all sources by the total number of unique IPs in our database, and came up with about 0.1. that’s how we came up with 90%.
it’s just an estimate though… there are factors that we couldn’t account for that would make the actual piracy rate lower than our estimate:

some people install the game on more than one machine
most people have dynamic IP addresses that change from time to time
idiots!
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,472 (4.22/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
As high as 80-90% of game copies are pirated according to game publisher 2D Boy. Most studies mirror that statistic. So, who are these "casual" pirates? They are certainly less than 20% of those that play the game. I'd argue it is as low as 1%. The "casual" pirates are merely transitioning to "competent." XD

Yeah, showing that a totally DRM free game has a 90% piracy rate, doesn't exactly help your argument any that DRM is useless. Especially when they way they generated the statisitic isn't even close to being accurate.

And no, other studies do not mirror that statistic. Most put the number, at least in North America, in the 30% range. Other regions are higher, some are lower. However, in North America roughly 70% of people using a piece of software actually purchased it. That number would be a lot less if all games were completely DRM free, like the one you so nicely pointed out. We would have people burning copies for all their friends left and right. We would be seeing a group of friends by one copy of the game, and make copies of it for everyone. This is why the larger, popular games need copy protection schemes like SecuROM 7.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Yeah, showing that a totally DRM free game has a 90% piracy rate, doesn't exactly help your argument any that DRM is useless. Especially when they way they generated the statisitic isn't even close to being accurate.
The article links another, similar game that was protected:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17350

Their publisher estimates a 92% pirate rate, higher than World of Goo which has no DRM.


EA is convinced it works but users are still pissed (follow the children link there too).
Guardian: Music and DRM, another epic fail.
EDN: Steve Jobs crying fowl on slumping DRM-infested music sales
EMR: Consumers starting to hold a grudge against DRM.

It goes on and on...


EA was actually taken to court for using SecuROM 7 in Spore.


By the way, Spore has five activation limit, not three (my mistake).
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
11,720 (1.73/day)
System Name Compy 386
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus
Cooling Air for now.....
Memory 64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s) 7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs, 24TB Enterprise drives
Display(s) 55" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Razer
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
* Step 4: Removal of Securom files under "C:\Documents and Settings".
Securom installs a hidden directory with 6 files under "C:\Documents and Settings\<Your Administrator name>\Application Data\Securom".





This directory is ALWAYS hidden. IE, Aplication Data. Who cares, anyone with working knowedge of a MS product will allow hidden files, files for the OS, and files with common extensions to be shown, then keep a check on their system manually.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,472 (4.22/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
All of that doesn't help your argument at all.

The 92% piracy rate was another number pulled out of a game publisher's ass, this one doesn't even give his BS methods this time. One that independent studies say is crap.

EA is correct in saying that a good 99% of users never notice it or have any issue with it. Of course, a small group doesn't like it because they just now figured out it is there, this happens every few years with copy protections. It happened with Starforce last time. It is just a bunch of uninformed people complaining about something they know little or nothing about, but have decided they don't like it. And there is always someone that think they deserve money for some idiotic reason. It is usually the same "OMG - Software does things behind the scenes that we don't see. I want money because you didn't tell me."

And DRM in the music industry has little to do with game copy protections. DRM in the music industry is restrictive as hell, and I even avoid that BS.

Yes, a small maybe 1% group is voicing their opinion on SecurROM, what is the point?
 

DaMulta

My stars went supernova
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
16,168 (2.49/day)
Location
Oklahoma T-Town
System Name Work in progress
Processor AMD 955---4Ghz
Motherboard MSi GD70
Cooling OcZ Phase/water
Memory Crucial2GB kit (1GBx2), Ballistix 240-pin DIMM, DDR3 PC3-16000
Video Card(s) CrossfireX 2 X HD 4890 1GB OCed to 1000Mhz
Storage SSD 64GB
Display(s) Envision 24'' 1920x1200
Case Using the desk ATM
Audio Device(s) Sucky onboard for now :(
Power Supply 1000W TruePower Quattro
Same issue though, once the company seizes to exist you're screwed.

VERY VERY TRUE\But I don't see that company going anywhere soon.


At least they don't do what EA dose. You only get 2 years to download the game unless you pay an extra fee. (used to be like that at least)
 

thesonglessbird

New Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
44 (0.01/day)
Location
Manchester, UK
System Name George
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 3.0GHz
Motherboard Abit IP35E
Memory 3GB Elixir DDR2 PC6400
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon 4870 512MB
Display(s) Iiyama ProLite E2407HDS
Case It's black.
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium »»» Logitech Z5500's.
Power Supply OCZ Stealth Xtreme 600W
Software Windows 7
VERY VERY TRUE\But I don't see that company going anywhere soon.

You never know with the economic crisis...

As for games not working if EA were to go bust, i'm pretty sure they've said on numerous occasions that they'd release patches for games that use online activation.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
The 92% piracy rate was another number pulled out of a game publisher's ass, this one doesn't even give his BS methods this time. One that independent studies say is crap.
Find a study that shows piracy isn't a major issue then. :p


EA is correct in saying that a good 99% of users never notice it or have any issue with it.
Do notice EA never said it works--just that users don't "notice" it. The part they conveniently leave out is that 90% of them have already circumvented it so there is nothing to "notice." :roll:


And DRM in the music industry has little to do with game copy protections. DRM in the music industry is restrictive as hell, and I even avoid that BS.
The motives are the same. Game pirates are just a helluva lot more tech-saavy than music pirates.
 
Last edited:
Top