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RealTemp General Discussion

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Wala... Fixed. I guess im an urban myth noob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AH!
 

unclewebb

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You can send me all that money you saved because you didn't have to RMA your processor in search of your missing cores. :toast:

Does RealTemp work now? I hope so.
 
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Yessir it does :) ty sir.
 

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http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8532/urbanmyth.png

Here's an urban myth that screws up people's computers. Someone said setting this will speed up your computer but all it does is limit the number of cores Windows can use. Un-check the box and hopefully all your cores and threads will be available after a re-boot.

and its utterly ridiculous how many people STILL use that tweak, when the last time it did anything was like... XP SP0
 
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sry m8... ima noob i guess.
 

LocutusX

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BSOD on Win7 :(

I regret to inform you that RealTemp 3.36 may be causing BSOD's on my system now, after doing an in-place upgrade from Vista x64 to Win7 x64.

Here's a summary of my issue:

- RealTemp is run on logon through Task Scheduler. As per the instructions posted either here or on Xtremesystems, a Task is set up in Task Scheduler to run the app with "highest privileges".

- After one logs in to Win7 (using an administrative account, etc.), does his usual stuff, blahblahblah, he suspends the computer through the Start Menu. The suspension goes through just fine.

- Whether it's 30 seconds later or 30 minutes later the computer is Resumed - either by moving mouse, pressing spacebar or hitting the power button, and the computer resumes normally.

- At the Win7 "enter your password" screen, either WAIT 20 seconds, or quickly log in and wait 20 seconds.

- STOP 0x000000f4 (0x0000000000000003, 0xfffffa8008b0ab30, 0xfffffa8008b0ae10, 0xfffff80002fd3240)!

- I spent some time debugging the minidump file in WinDbg but could not get it to point to the actual driver causing the issue.

- If I stop/close/kill RealTemp before the suspend/resume - the suspend/resume will work fine.
If I leave RealTemp running at time of suspend (actually Sleep) then I will always get a BSOD about 15-20 seconds after Resuming.

Any ideas?

NOTE: Before determining it was RealTemp causing the issue, I had looked at other devices on my system and tried disabling/removing them before going into Sleep. Like my USB WLAN NIC, etc. They had no effect.

Please don't say it's because I did an in-place upgrade. ;) This is the only thing that's not working.

EDIT: Problem Solved. BSOD was due to Microsoft's crappy default AHCI driver which apparently doesn't play nice with Intel ICH10R south bridge in AHCI mode. After installing Intel Matrix Storage Manager drivers, the problem went away. RealTemp was not the cause, although it's interesting that the problem only showed itself while RealTemp was running.
 
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unclewebb

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I think it's because you did an in-place upgrade. :)

People have been using the betas and RC candidates of Windows 7 for months now and I've been using Windows 7 x64 and not once have I had a BSOD. Stand by or hibernate mode work fine on my computer.

There haven't been any significant changes but here's RealTemp 3.39
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/RealTempBeta.zip

RealTemp uses the WinRing0 driver which was not developed by me. If there is a problem with this driver then it's out of my hands.

Is your computer 100% stable without any issues while running Prime 95 or LinX? I'll definitely look into this some more but if the WinRing0 driver has been working for months just fine on Vista x64 systems, I don't think it's the cause of your BSODs. Even if it was a bad driver, it shouldn't take down your whole system unless something else is wrong.

Disable C3/C6 to make sure the extra multiplier boost isn't contributing to your problems.

Edit: Here's how my Windows 7 x64 looks after going into and coming out of Stand By mode:



Windows 7 finally releases some of the libraries that RealTemp initially opens up so RealTemp takes up less memory space after going into and coming out of Stand By mode but other than that, it seems to work fine. If anyone else is having a BSOD issue then let me know.
 
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LocutusX

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Maybe the WinRing0 driver has been updated since the version which you put into the package?

Is it open source?
 

unclewebb

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WinRing0 is open source.

http://openlibsys.org/

The last update was May 27th and that's the version that RealTemp is using.

There have been 500,000+ downloads of RealTemp during the last 9 months and 1 complaint about a BSOD. It's certainly possible that RealTemp or the WinRing0 driver is the problem but the odds aren't really on your side.

There are some very demanding computer enthusiasts on XtremeSystems. If there was a problem, I would have heard about it months ago. Have you tried doing any stability testing on your computer? Turn off RealTemp and you can monitor your temperatures with Core Temp so you can isolate the problem.
 

LocutusX

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I agree with your assessment that it's unlikely that the combination of RealTemp + Windows 7 = BSOD. Logically, that's difficult to justify.

There are 2 possibilities IMO:

- another driver is interacting poorly with RealTemp, thus causing a BSOD if RealTemp is running during the Sleep/Resume

- it's all because of the "in-place upgrade". and here we thought MS had finally perfected the OS upgrade process ;)


Edit: Is "Hybrid Sleep" working fine on your i7-920 machine? While poking around, that's something else I noticed. Hybrid Sleep being enabled prevents me from Sleeping at all; regardless of whether RealTemp is running or not. This is turning more into a general S3/Hibernate issue...
 
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SuperJoker

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I don't have Win7(yet), But except for an AMD powered Media Center PC(XP Pro), I don't use sleep for the other two PCs I have here at all(XP x64), So I don't have a problem, Maybe just turning the PC off would be better as It saves more power than just putting a PC to sleep. Good Luck.
 

Krout

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I have Win 7 Ultimate final build and I did in-place update over Vista first. Regarding RT it worked fine. Going to sleep and coming out. It even showed the GPU temp, which it did not in RC. Than I wiped everything off and did a clean install. Real temp still works fine - no BSOD, no anything else. It's just my two cents.:roll:
I am using RT3.38

On the other note...SuperJoker.
If you use Media Center and share the media, the chances are that this is what prevents your PC from going to sleep;)
 

SuperJoker

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I have Win 7 Ultimate final build and I did in-place update over Vista first. Regarding RT it worked fine. Going to sleep and coming out. It even showed the GPU temp, which it did not in RC. Than I wiped everything off and did a clean install. Real temp still works fine - no BSOD, no anything else. It's just my two cents.:roll:
I am using RT3.38

On the other note...SuperJoker.
If you use Media Center and share the media, the chances are that this is what prevents your PC from going to sleep;)

From going to sleep? Maybe I wasn't clear, The PC goes to sleep just fine, The PC is an AMD HP Pavilion media center m7470n PC and It has a crappy/flaky 300w psu, I've had the PC lock/freeze on Me while watching TV, Just to wake the PC the HP should respond to the remote control, It doesn't most of the time lately(last two weeks or so), So to get the PC to work again I have to pull the plug from the power strip and then plug the power cable back into the strip, So I'm replacing the HP 300w psu with a Corsair 850w psu(It'll fit, plenty of room in there), Oh and I don't share any media. It uses a usb wireless connection to the router(54G, 108G capable) and It's fully encrypted(WPA2-PSK-AES) that replaced a pci 56k modem card(Dialup type), But then this PC was donated to Me, Windows 7 is in Its future, Just not yet. Plus anything not being used is disabled in the Bios so as to not use any power.
 

LocutusX

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Good news!

I was able to solve the problem.

First of all... I'm a bit silly. Since this issue did not happen to me during my Vista x64 SP2 install (on the exact same machine) I should have looked at what changed between the two installs (since Vista and Win7 are 95% the same under-the-hood).
Because in fact, I DID change something... Vista was running in legacy IDE mode... for my Win7 install I decided to "upgrade" to AHCI. Yeah, some upgrade!

Anyways I installed the Intel Matrix Storage manager - the "official" driver for AHCI on Intel Chipset mobos... and now I can resume from sleep/suspend while RealTemp is running without any problems. Hooray for Intel drivers, down with Microsoft drivers! :)

Can you tell I'm really happy? Because I had half-a-mind to redo a CLEAN install of Win7 just so I could try getting RealTemp to work... yeah, I love your app THAT much!
Now I can carry on with my life and not waste a week re-installing Windows :p
 

HTC

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Hi there!

I had a lapped E6850 (don't have it anymore) with a Noctua NH-C12P cooler and @ 8*375, i had this temp:



And here is pic i have of my current lapped E8400 with a lapped Noctua NH-C12P cooler, with which i have these temps:




As you can see, the 1st pic was taken mid March while the other was taken today and there are ambient temp differences to take into consideration (was much colder back in March, as can be seen by the HDD temp). I've since changed motherboard and RAM and added an HDD but i tried to put the same BIOS settings as much as i recall them.

In this pic, the E6850 is @ 17º min but i saw it with as little as 15º and, @ that time, the cooler wasn't lapped.

With this E8400, even with an underclock (@ 9 * 225) it only get's 36º min temp (min temp on core 1 is 39: sensor is stuck).

In the E8400 pic, if you look @ the HDDs temp and @ the core's temp, there's quite a bit of difference: doesn't this suggest this CPU's TJ Max is set too high?
 
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unclewebb

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With 45nm Core 2 CPUs, it's likely that both of your sensors are stuck. Intel says you shouldn't trust them when they go below 50C.

At your default MHz and core voltage settings, run the CPU Cool Down Test and post your results. It is the best way to so see the point where your sensors stick. The 65nm temperature sensors were much more accurate at lower temperatures than these newer sensors are.

RealTemp and any monitoring software is only as good as the sensors that it's reading.

Here's my E8400 at a similar MHz. Not a lot of difference.



CPU-Z shows my core voltage at 1.384, room temperature is about 19C and my computer case is open.

I also have a Samsung HD753LJ and HD Tune shows it at 23C.



I don't know how accurate the sensors on your E6850 were. It's difficult to make a fair comparison between two different CPUs at two different times at two different room temperatures. If you still had both CPUs you could swap back and forth and do a better comparison. My E8400 probably reads a couple of degrees too hot at idle but at full load, it seems to be very accurate. None of these sensors are 100% accurate at idle but at full load your E8400 is likely very accurate just like my E8400 is. TJMax may not be exactly 100C but I bet it's pretty close. At idle you have slope error where the sensors tend to change at a different rate than the actual temperature does. Intel says this is about +/- 10% which can become significant when you are 70C from the calibration point.
 
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HTC

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With 45nm Core 2 CPUs, it's likely that both of your sensors are stuck. Intel says you shouldn't trust them when they go below 50C.

At your default MHz and core voltage settings, run the CPU Cool Down Test and post your results. It is the best way to so see the point where your sensors stick. The 65nm temperature sensors were much more accurate at lower temperatures than these newer sensors are.

RealTemp and any monitoring software is only as good as the sensors that it's reading.

Here's my E8400 at a similar MHz. Not a lot of difference.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/365/realtemp341.png

CPU-Z shows my core voltage at 1.384, room temperature is about 19C and my computer case is open.

I also have a Samsung HD753LJ and HD Tune shows it at 23C.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6810/hd753lj.png

Here's a pic:



Case is also open but i can't tell about ambient temp because i don't have a thermometer in the house ...

Please note that, using Intel Burntest @ 8 * 375, i get higher temp in core 0 then you do with it @ 8 * 500.

With it @ 4 GHz and a tad bit more Vcore (when compared to your 8 * 500), i get to 73º on both cores:

 
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unclewebb

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73C sounds familiar. :)

Here's my E8400 running LinX and that's only second round action.
http://www.youwatched.com/datajay/linx(0.64).7z



Lots of core voltage equals lots of heat. I have no doubt that the temperature RealTemp is reporting is very accurate at that level. I'd probably need to turn up my CPU fan to continue to be stable. This temperature or less is usually the tipping point for long term stability. Full load core voltage is 1.400 in CPU-Z.



With the help of some pencil lead, this board has reverse voltage droop at full load. Instead of the voltage going down, it goes up a little bit.
That's just the way I like it. :)
 
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73C sounds familiar. :)

Here's my E8400 running LinX and that's only second round action.
http://www.youwatched.com/datajay/linx(0.64).7z

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7129/linxc.png

Lots of core voltage equals lots of heat. I have no doubt that the temperature RealTemp is reporting is very accurate at that level. I'd probably need to turn up my CPU fan to continue to be stable. This temperature or less is usually the tipping point for long term stability. Full load core voltage is 1.392 in CPU-Z.

jesus man your baking that chip haha..now i have a question doing sensor tests etc have you noticed if high heat and voltage (breaking in) really help ocing at all? or is breaking in more a thing of the past?
 

HTC

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73C sounds familiar. :)

Here's my E8400 running LinX and that's only second round action.
http://www.youwatched.com/datajay/linx(0.64).7z

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7129/linxc.png

Lots of core voltage equals lots of heat. I have no doubt that the temperature RealTemp is reporting is very accurate at that level. I'd probably need to turn up my CPU fan to continue to be stable. This temperature or less is usually the tipping point for long term stability. Full load core voltage is 1.400 in CPU-Z.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1174/cpuzn.png

With the help of some pencil lead, this board has reverse voltage droop at full load. Instead of the voltage going down, it goes up a little bit.
That's just the way I like it. :)

Ouch: that temp is even worse ...

In this case and if i understand you correctly, you don't have your CPU fan @ 100%, right? In my case, for a fan that's supposed to be @ 1300 RPM, mine's a very small tad bit over 100%.

If the case is closed, the 25cm side fan causes the CPU fan to be @ over 1400 RPM, though the temps stay the same, as far as i can tell.

I have 1.41875 in BIOS Vcore: Vdroop is very small, atm.
 
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HTC don't bother with idle temps for 45nm CPU's. They're off. This is my example.
I've tried Ninja fanless, Ninja with fan and now I have Noctua NH-U12P (tried fanless and with fan). Whatever heatsink with/without fan I use and doesn't matter if I have my E8400 underclocked at 1.6GHz and 0.9xx Vcore or 3GHz and 1.1xxV Vcore at 22-23°C room temperature I have same 38-40°C on cores so long time ago I give up, I don't bother with idle temps, I don't bother with TJMax value, all I watch is that distance to TJMax to be greater than 20 for daily use. That's it, no more headaches from temps. :D
 
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HTC

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HTC don't bother with idle temps for 45nm CPU's. They're off. This is my example.
I've tried Ninja fanless, Ninja with fan and now I have Noctua NH-U12P (tried fanless and with fan). Whatever heatsink with/without fan I use and doesn't matter if I have my E8400 underclocked at 1.6GHz and 0.9xx Vcore or 3GHz and 1.1xxV Vcore at 22-23°C room temperature I have same 38-40°C on cores so long time ago I give up, I don't bother with idle temps, I don't bother with TJMax value, all I watch is that distance to TJMax to be greater than 20 for daily use. That's it, no more headaches from temps. :D

You have it even worse then me: mine actually lowers to 36º, but i do have it @ 6 * 225 (1350 MHz) in idle and 9 * 225 (2025 MHz) under load.

The problem is not the idle temps: it's the load temps.

You do have a point though and i have tried it myself (put TJ Max @ 85, for testing).

If you assume temps are correct, 73º under Intel Burntest @ 4 GHz does seem like a lot but if TJ Max, for this particular CPU, is indeed off by ... say ... 15º, then the actual temp would be 58º which is much more reasonable.
 
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[...] 73º under Intel Burntest @ 4 GHz does seem like a lot[...]
May I be honest with you? 73°C at 4GHz and 1.4xxV Vcore under Linpack looks perfect fine to me. You still have 27 remaining distance to TJMax which is perfect safe for daily use but also keep in mind that Linpack is a useless test for daily use because you'll never-ever see something that it will heat-upyour CPU as Linpack does.

If you want to simulate daily use (gaming/encoding/rendering/whatever) try prime95 Small FFTs.
For me that prime95 test matches my gaming/DVD-ripping CPU temperatures (in fact even prime95 is a little bit high compared with what I see during gaming/ripping).

Peoples care too much about Intel CPU temps. Don't worry for them, they'll protect themselves when it will be necessary. Remember, throttle is initiated by distance to TJMax <2 or thermal shutdown when distance to TJMax is -25. :D
At least for mobile chips because I see a quad which happily passed LinX at 136°C. :twitch:

 
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unclewebb

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Burebista is 100% correct. Intel processors are very well designed and there's no need to worry about the core temperature as long as your computer is running stable.

HTC: TJMax is definitely not off on my chip. My reported core temperatures on this CPU are accurate to +/- 1C when these sensors are in the range of 70C to 100C and I'd be very surprised if your sensors weren't just as accurate. Most of the problems with the sensors are at idle but when the temperature gets up into this range, they are very accurate.

I have a Tuniq Tower which isn't a top rated heatsink anymore. I also have the fan on the lowest setting because I hate noise so that's why it was easy to get the cores up to 76C in a hurry.

The bottom line is that if you run a 45nm Core 2 Duo at 4GHz and you need 1.40 volts to be stable, you're going to need a top rated cooler and some good airflow through that cooler to keep the core temperature at a reasonable level so you will be able to maintain stability.

If you go for a more modest overclock like 3600 MHz, I found that my CPU is stable enough that it can run at full load for hours even with the heatsink fan turned off. Does the core temperature get hot? Of course it does. During my test it was bouncing off the thermal throttle for 3 hours straight while continuing to run Prime95 Small FFTs just fine.



This exact same CPU is capable of running reliably at 4GHz but it's not capable of running at full speed and at full temperature. The only way to run at that speed reliably is if I keep the core temperature at a more reasonable level like 70C.

The exact temperature number is completely unimportant. The only thing that is important is that whatever overclock you choose, you're able to run at full load for an extended period of time without losing stability. If your core temperature is too hot, Prime95 will either return an error or my motherboard / CPU would typically reboot when pushed too hard. Ignore the temperature number because it's just a number and concentrate on stability. As long as your computer is stable, the exact temperature your CPU is running at is not important. The cooler you can run your CPU the better because it will give you more overclocking headroom but other than that, no need to be overly concerned about your core temperature.
 
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HTC

Joined
Apr 1, 2008
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Portugal
System Name HTC's System
Processor Ryzen 5 2600X
Motherboard Asrock Taichi X370
Cooling NH-C14, with the AM4 mounting kit
Memory G.Skill Kit 16GB DDR4 F4 - 3200 C16D - 16 GTZB
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 480 OC 4 GB
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Power Supply Corsair TX 850M 80+ Gold
Mouse Razer Deathadder Elite
Software Ubuntu 19.04 LTS
Burebista is 100% correct. Intel processors are very well designed and there's no need to worry about the core temperature as long as your computer is running stable.

HTC: TJMax is definitely not off on my chip. My reported core temperatures on this CPU are accurate to +/- 1C when these sensors are in the range of 70C to 100C and I'd be very surprised if your sensors weren't just as accurate. Most of the problems with the sensors are at idle but when the temperature gets up into this range, they are very accurate.

I have a Tuniq Tower which isn't a top rated heatsink anymore. I also have the fan on the lowest setting because I hate noise so that's why it was easy to get the cores up to 76C in a hurry.

The bottom line is that if you run a 45nm Core 2 Duo at 4GHz and you need 1.40 volts to be stable, you're going to need a top rated cooler and some good airflow through that cooler to keep the core temperature at a reasonable level so you will be able to maintain stability.

If you go for a more modest overclock like 3600 MHz, I found that my CPU is stable enough that it can run at full load for hours even with the heatsink fan turned off. Does the core temperature get hot? Of course it does. During my test it was bouncing off the thermal throttle for 3 hours straight while continuing to run Prime95 Small FFTs just fine.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/276/hote8400fw5.png

This exact same CPU is capable of running reliably at 4GHz but it's not capable of running at full speed and at full temperature. The only way to run at that speed reliably is if I keep the core temperature at a more reasonable level like 70C.

The exact temperature number is completely unimportant. The only thing that is important is that whatever overclock you choose, you're able to run at full load for an extended period of time without losing stability. If your core temperature is too hot, Prime95 will either return an error or my motherboard / CPU would typically reboot when pushed too hard. Ignore the temperature number because it's just a number and concentrate on stability. As long as your computer is stable, the exact temperature your CPU is running at is not important. The cooler you can run your CPU the better because it will give you more overclocking headroom but other than that, no need to be overly concerned about your core temperature.

My purpose is to have the big OC when i have loads of encoding to do and to have a big underclock when not. For that, i have to make sure it's rock stable which it isn't, yet, because Burntest fails: Memtest passes so i think 's the CPU but i haven't figured out exactly what the prob is.

If i can't figure out the prob @ 4 GHz, i'll have to settle for a lower OC, but i sure would like it @ 4 GHz: i'm still trying to troubleshoot.

Many thanks to both you and Burebista :toast:
 
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