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X-Fi Support Syndicate & Owner's Clubhouse

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Deleted member 24505

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I am afraid i wont be buying another creative card until they work on vista without using alchemy.The only thing they can do to recover from the x-fi diaster,is to make a card that works natively and supports the uaa architecture natively.The "new" titanium cards are having exactly the same issues on vista it seems,it is just a pci-e capable x-fi chip.It is using basically the same drivers as the x-fi,and needs alchemy on vista.I dont know if the front end is the same as the audio console/console launcher programs though.

The only thing making my vista crash was the x-fi card,it has gone now,i sold it for £20 to my mate.

Do you have any idea if the xonar ds supports vista natively? i am considering buying one to replace the x-f(a)i(l)
 

Specsaver

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The "new" titanium cards are having exactly the same issues on vista it seems,it is just a pci-e capable x-fi chip.It is using basically the same drivers as the x-fi,and needs alchemy on vista.I dont know if the front end is the same as the audio console/console launcher programs though.

Do you have anything to back up this statement?

From Creative's Titanium product page
"UAA (Universal Audio Architecture) design ensures maximum compatibility in Windows Vista."

It is X-Fi PCI Express chip i.e. a new chip - no bridge. And it uses UAA driver. If you want to use ALchemy you can - there is nothing wrong with that and it does not contradict UAA architecture.

People who bought Titanium say the opposite to what you say - and have no issues in Vista (except for a need to reboot PC twice at the installation)
 

Specsaver

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From here-http://nexus404.com/Blog/2008/06/06...es-the-professional-gamers-choice-sound-card/

So that still means no hardware eax in games,so how is that full uaa supported in hardware then.

You mean you want hardware eax in games that is served by uaa driver?

This is not possible. Vista blocks hardware path - the only way to circumvent this is by using Alchemy with Creative hardware.

Or any other similar tweak with any other hardware - if it exists but I am not aware of such. Which takes us to your previous question

Do you have any idea if the xonar ds supports vista natively? i am considering buying one to replace the x-f(a)i(l)

Xonar works with Vista built-in driver. Same as X-Fi Titanium. The difference between Xonar and Titanium is that Xonar does not support upper EAX only emulates something supposed to be similar but - it is not done in hardware.

Secondly Xonar is actually a PCI card made hastily into PCI -express. It uses a bridge so cannot use up PCI express bandwidth or draw enough power off the buss- this is why you have to use floppy power connector with Xonar.
 
D

Deleted member 24505

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Dont get me wrong,i have near enough always bought creative cards,i do like them.It is just the fubar between x-fi and vista,it did take creative an awfully long time to sort the drivers out.I do realise it was partly microsofts fault by changing the way audio is handled in vista.

Does the titanium output 5.1 from the digital out or is it still 2 channel?

Also,why does vista block the hardware path? will there ever be a sound card which uses that hardware path?

Thanks for your patience.I am just a little down on creative at the moment.But until i get another sound card,i will see if vista can be stable without the x-fi in it.
 

Specsaver

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Dont get me wrong,i have near enough always bought creative cards,i do like them.It is just the fubar between x-fi and vista,it did take creative an awfully long time to sort the drivers out.I do realise it was partly microsofts fault by changing the way audio is handled in vista.

Probably so. Apparently they decided to release X-Fi Titanium to finally sort out Vista issues for those who had them. Most people did not as far I know though. Those who have problems and are kinda ignored become very vocal but I met many people saying their X-Fi worked just fine under Vista. But with certain combinations of hardware you could run into problems, though.

PCI Express is a different bus, it does not share resources and the issues with old X-Fi all had to do with clogged bandwidth, this or the other device keeping the bus too long for itself. Audio could not maintain its integrity, audio is sensitive to errors more than anything.


Does the titanium output 5.1 from the digital out or is it still 2 channel?

Well this was fixed with one of the latest driver for the original X-Fi I believe. As for gaming audio with enabled EAX - this would not come out as 5.1. over the digital with the original (old) X-Fi. With Titatnium it does- the card has Dolby Digital ENcoding (DDL)


Also,why does vista block the hardware path? will there ever be a sound card which uses that hardware path?

Do I look like a fairy? :pimp:

Thanks for your patience.I am just a little down on creative at the moment.But until i get another sound card,i will see if vista can be stable without the x-fi in it.

You are very welcome. Creative initially dropped the ball on Vista support but I think they managed to catch it again. Sure you choose what suits you, but it is good to leave gripes aside and make informed decisions.

Good luck!
 
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Also,why does vista block the hardware path? will there ever be a sound card which uses that hardware path?

And who cares? Vista is so obviously the new ME - dead system. They lock user and even programmer up in the system, so they can very well eat it. I do not care at at.
 

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Does the titanium output 5.1 from the digital out or is it still 2 channel?

Also,why does vista block the hardware path? will there ever be a sound card which uses that hardware path?



Titanium, AFAIK, can output 5.1 across the optical connections.


As to the Vista thing - Specsaver is right . . . you still have full functionality, but, any aspect of the cards functions that rely on pure hardware access and support can not function dircetly with Vista - i.e. EAX.

That's where ALchemy came about, where you have a software interpretuer that intercepts the EAX calls within a game, translates them to audio calls that the OpenAL API understands, and passes them to the OpenAL API to carry through.

In XP, EAX calls can directly access the hardware through the OS.

Essentially, software audio calls function on the user end of the kernel, instead of like with XP where audio drivers functioned on the OS side. MS designed the Vista audio architecture like this because they felt that the vast majority of system crashes with XP were due to audio related issues (which IMO was a load of BS - out of all the years I've been using XP, I can't ever recall a single system crash, lock or BSoD that was audio related). In their words, it would make the system more stable.

Creative's cards aren't the only one's affected - any card that has functions which rely on hardware acceleration, thos functions will not work correctly in Vista.

But, thatnks to the Vista audio structure, we've also seen many other issues (i.e. 5.1 playback support or downsampling) within various 3rd party programs, and these issues are not limited to just Creative's hardware; the ASUS cards, the Razer, HT Omegas . . . all of them have run into quite a few issues with Vista, thanks to the audio architecture.

Although - MS programs which can access the hardware directly through the OS (i.e. WIN Media Player), don't run into the downsampling or mixing issues . . . only 3rd party programs . . . funny, ain't it?

Also, onboard audio configurations don't run into these issues, either, being integrated with the motherboard which is directly controlled by the OS . . . funny again, ain't it?

Even more odd is that MS was cooperating with nVidia and Creative during Vista's design to incorporate DirectSound support with DX10, but for some reason, nVidia dropped out of the project, and soon after MS dropped the project altogether, leaving Creative high and dry . . . personally, I believe this little incident is what caused creative to be about 6 months behind with official audio drivers for Vista; they had to go back and rewrite everything for a different audio architecture, and also design and impliment the ALchemy software and tweak down OpenAL a bit more. And right about the time that Vista went to release was when we got the explanation from MS to the change in the audio architecture, and why they did it that way (the XP and stability thing) . . . sounds to me like someone just was trying to cover their ass.


Either way, though, Creative's drivers can be a headache at times - my biggest gripe is that they don't release new drivers often enough.

And, I'm not saying that their isn't some blame on Creative for their shoddy Vista drivers, but rather that some blame should also be placed on MS for the fiasco as well.




My personal stance with Creative is that I find their technical and customer service to be near about pointless. Their drivers are hit-or-miss. As many people that complain about driver issues, there are also an equal amount that report them to function 100% fine, and considering they're the largest player in the audio card market . . .

But, I still find their hardware and designs to be their strongest feature - hopefully that will contuinue.
 

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Also,why does vista block the hardware path? will there ever be a sound card which uses that hardware path?

DirectSound allowed a supportive app to talk directly to audio hardware. Without it, the apps talk to hardware using Chinese-whispers. It's not that DS is the only thing that allowed it, you have OpenAL too, but way too many apps supported DS and were all reduced to Chinese-whispers with DirectX 10 kicking DS, leading Creative to work out translation layers such as ALchemy.
 
D

Deleted member 24505

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Looks to me like microsoft shafted creative.

So apart from using onboard is there really a properly usable sound card for vista that works with no driver issues?

Has anybody on our forum got a creative titanium? i would like to hear from someone on here all about it.Buy one someone please :p
 

imperialreign

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Looks to me like microsoft shafted creative.

So apart from using onboard is there really a properly usable sound card for vista that works with no driver issues?

Has anybody on our forum got a creative titanium? i would like to hear from someone on here all about it.Buy one someone please :p



It was part-and-partial between MS and Creative, IMO . . . Creative did get a :nutkick: from MS, but considering they're the biggest audio card manufacturer and have pwned the market for 2 decades now, they should've had a contingency plan, and it shouldn't have taken them so long to get official drivers out. I could reason with being 2-3 months behind, but 6 is pushing it.



As to the Titanium - I know of one user who currently does: KBD
 

imperialreign

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I had swapped out the LM4562 OPAMPs that I had used in place of the OE units, with a set of AD8599 OPAMPs instead;

here's the detailed hardware testing results:

first - the Fatal1ty with LM4562





here's the same card, but with AD8599 instead:





I ran the AD8599 tests 4-times each to make sure of those results -


comparatively, the AD8599 allows for a better dynamic range at all testing levels, compared to the LM4562 . . . it might only be an average difference of -2dbA, but for such a small component thats only concerned with amplifying the output signal, that's a lot . . .

THD and IMD+N results for the AD8599 are very-slightly better, the most improvement difference, though is at 16bit playbacks; coupled with the slighlty higher dynamic range, I'd conclude as well that these OPAMPs aren't as affected by EMI as the LM4562


also of note - the AD8599 rated better at stereo crosstalk than the LM4562 . . . meaning there's less channel bleeding :toast:


TBH, the AD8599 sounds the same to me now as it did after first installation (surprisingly) - no drastic change after burn in like with the LM4562. I really also dig how they sound compared to the LM4562 as well; the 4562 OPAMPs produce some very sharp frequencies that I personally found to be annoying at times. The 8599 has a lot warmer sound, IMO it has a lot more depth to it. The 4562 is also prone to a bit of oscillation, noticeable with tones that are held for extended periods of time (one knows the playback tone is supposed to be a constant and steady, unwavering tone - you can hear it start to oscillate with eh 4562 OPAMPs, and not with the 8599). The 4562 is also more susceptible to EMI/RFI than the 8599 - this would be more of a problem with setups running more powerful, or severely OCed hardware.

For the cheaper price ($10/unit, on average), I'd say the AD8599 ousts the LM4562.

I have some other recommendations to supposed better OPAMPs as well, I will attempt to obtain some other options and test those out in the near future.
 
M

MiN_SAHC

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Hello..
I'm new member in this forum and I seek help regarding connection for Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi
XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro to CM Centurion 5 front panel. I
have follow every instructions listed at 1st post.. I can use the front panel but, the rear speaker doesn't mute.

I include a picture that show how i connect the card to the front panel.

Before this, i use on board sound to connect to the front panel., that why i make comparison between CM Centurion 5 front panel connector with on board connection
Can anyone suggest what wrong with my X-fi connection to the front panel?
 
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imperialreign

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first, open up the console launcher - whatever mode it's currently set in, click on "settings." In the new window that pops up, go to the 'Headphones' tab, and make sure "Automatically mute speakers" is checked.
 
M

MiN_SAHC

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first, open up the console launcher - whatever mode it's currently set in, click on "settings." In the new window that pops up, go to the 'Headphones' tab, and make sure "Automatically mute speakers" is checked.

Actually I already check 'Automatically mute speaker'. Currently I'm using Vista 64bit with latest driver (Driver version: 2. 15. 6). I need to make some correction regarding my 1st post. Not only rear speaker doesn't mute, but all my 5.1 speaker. The volume from 5.1 speaker became a little bit slow when earphone jack is plugged in but not mute.
 
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imperialreign

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Set the speaker config to 'headphones' once they're plugged in . . . do you still have any output from the rear of the card to your 5.1 setup?

Only reason I mention, is that the drivers won't switch the speaker config over to headphone when you plug in a connector to the front panel . . . I think we would need the X-Fi Front Panel drive for that function to operate correctly. It's a bit of a hassel sometimes to have to manually switch the output speaker configuration.
 
M

MiN_SAHC

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Set the speaker config to 'headphones' once they're plugged in . . . do you still have any output from the rear of the card to your 5.1 setup?

Only reason I mention, is that the drivers won't switch the speaker config over to headphone when you plug in a connector to the front panel . . . I think we would need the X-Fi Front Panel drive for that function to operate correctly. It's a bit of a hassel sometimes to have to manually switch the output speaker configuration.

If I set to 'headphone', only front speaker produce sound, but the volume became a little bit slow. Headphone work prefectly, the sound also good.. From my connection configuration, dont you find any problem?
 

imperialreign

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If I set to 'headphone', only front speaker produce sound, but the volume became a little bit slow. Headphone work prefectly, the sound also good.. From my connection configuration, dont you find any problem?

TBH, the only thing I see that could be of concern is the brige between pins 1 and 10 . . . is there any way you can sperate these two wires for testing?


To the best of my knowledge, though, and IIRC, AC97 supported front panel connections aren't capable of rear output muting

I'll dig out an older case of mine tomorrow with AC97 connectivity and see if I can duplicate your condition; and if so, what I can do to fix it :toast:
 
M

MiN_SAHC

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TBH, the only thing I see that could be of concern is the brige between pins 1 and 10 . . . is there any way you can sperate these two wires for testing?


To the best of my knowledge, though, and IIRC, AC97 supported front panel connections aren't capable of rear output muting

I'll dig out an older case of mine tomorrow with AC97 connectivity and see if I can duplicate your condition; and if so, what I can do to fix it :toast:

CM Centurion 5 have 8 wire only, that why I add 1 brigde between 1 & 10. X-fi required 9 connection rite? The configuration I made follow the HD front panel, not AC97.
 
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I found some useful info for anyone running Linux.

I'm now dual-booting with Ubuntu and found a way to install my Auzen Prelude with at least basic functionality - although no crystalliser, fancy menus, EQ etc etc etc.

Here goes with a couple of links:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4874981#post4874981

and
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4874981&postcount=2

and finally:
http://www.4front-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Configuring_Applications_for_OSSv4

Good find thanks. Supposedly Auzentech will come out with official Prelude-Linux drivers in Q4.
 

imperialreign

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CM Centurion 5 have 8 wire only, that why I add 1 brigde between 1 & 10. X-fi required 9 connection rite? The configuration I made follow the HD front panel, not AC97.

well, from what I can tell, you have the connector wired properly, and you description makes it sound like the X-Fi does notice the connection when you plug in the headphones (the slightly muted output from the rear) . . . but, my concern is with the bridged pins . . .

reason being, is that pin number 10 on the X-Fi is for audio detect . . . which functions similar to pin 4 on an Azalia/HD connector. The card is looking for a very low powered signal from to this pin (ground) from the the front panel connector; as long as now jack is plugged in, the card doesn't see any signal. Bridging the pins means that the signal that would be coming back from the connector would be bypassing that pin and going straight to ground (pin 1).

but if the connector from the case only has 8 wires, and not 9, I'm not quite sure rear output mute will function correctly . . .
 
M

MiN_SAHC

Guest
well, from what I can tell, you have the connector wired properly, and you description makes it sound like the X-Fi does notice the connection when you plug in the headphones (the slightly muted output from the rear) . . . but, my concern is with the bridged pins . . .

reason being, is that pin number 10 on the X-Fi is for audio detect . . . which functions similar to pin 4 on an Azalia/HD connector. The card is looking for a very low powered signal from to this pin (ground) from the the front panel connector; as long as now jack is plugged in, the card doesn't see any signal. Bridging the pins means that the signal that would be coming back from the connector would be bypassing that pin and going straight to ground (pin 1).

but if the connector from the case only has 8 wires, and not 9, I'm not quite sure rear output mute will function correctly . . .

Thanks for all the idea and info you give to me.. I will try something this weekend and will update in this forum.
 

FreedomEclipse

~Technological Technocrat~
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New drivers available for Creative Audigy 2 series cards for windows XP/Vista found>Here<

its the 'Final' drivers so if they are messed up - dont be expecting a fix ;)
 
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