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RBE - General information and discussion

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Thanks, got it.
 
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Ok, dumped and loaded the video card bios.

Only thing that I have noticed is that there is a message 'YOU HAVE NOT CONNECTED THE POWER CABLE TO YOUR VIDEO CARD.PLEASE REFER TO THE 'GETTING STARTED GUIDE' FOR PROPER HARDWARE INSTALLATION.'

BUT it is plugged in!
 
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Ok, dumped and loaded the video card bios.

Only thing that I have noticed is that there is a message 'YOU HAVE NOT CONNECTED THE POWER CABLE TO YOUR VIDEO CARD.PLEASE REFER TO THE 'GETTING STARTED GUIDE' FOR PROPER HARDWARE INSTALLATION.'

BUT it is plugged in!

Yes, but this is just the text of the message, which you could edit there. It's not telling you that you haven't plugged in the power cable ;)
 

3d_jc

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RBE and 4870 : strange things happening

Hi there.

Got me a birthday present in a form of a shiny new 4870. So far so far, but the auto settings of the fan brings my GPU to 80°C, too hot for my liking.

Lets go to the moding board then. Extract the bios fine (yeap, the full 128k). Alter temps by 5° (not changing anything else), save flash, and .. hmm weird, I have now an airplane in by PC case ! It was regulating arround 80° out the box, and changing the values by 5° brings me to a board tryng to achieve 62° about. Tried a few thing and came to the following observations :

- load bios, not changing anything, save bios, produces a different bios file. FC orig.bin, saved.bin gives :

0000DF03: 17 2F
0000DF3E: 5E 5D
0000DF40: 79 7A
0000DF41: 87 80
0001F3B5: FF EE

- some time settings combinations produce a file atiwinflash does not recognize as a vbios (it complains at flashing time, not file opening time)

Wonder what's going on

3d_jc
 
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First of all dont use winflash :( load dos and use ATIflash.
 
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BAGZZlash

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- load bios, not changing anything, save bios, produces a different bios file. FC orig.bin, saved.bin gives :

0000DF03: 17 2F
0000DF3E: 5E 5D
0000DF40: 79 7A
0000DF41: 87 80
0001F3B5: FF EE

On loading a BIOS, RBE analyzes the fan settings programmed to the BIOS and checks if there are several inconsistencies (which are not so rare because the video card vendors seem to be not so much caring about it, trust me on that). If inconsistencies are detected, they are corrected automatically. That's why the files differ.
This can't be the source of you fan issue.

- some time settings combinations produce a file atiwinflash does not recognize as a vbios (it complains at flashing time, not file opening time)

What combinations are those supposed to be?

Did anyone else experience this kind of behaviour yet? Seriously, please report issues like these.
 

3d_jc

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I plan to do the following :
- open my default bios, saved it, flash it to see if it performs like defaut
- change ° 1 by 1 for lets say a 10° range to see :
--> how do my temps evolve
--> when does atiwinflash complain

Would that help ?

3d_jc
 

3d_jc

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Actually, it is even funier that than. Opening, saving default bios produces a file atiwinflash doesn't recognize as valid. If I change the temp range however, it might work, or not, some combination oddly work, some not.

My extracted bios, in case it might help : Here

Now do I risk to brik my shader love if I use the dos flasher with a flash the windows version doesn't want ? Note the the windows flasher works beautifully for me when it does accept the bios

Thanks a lot

3d_jc
 
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BAGZZlash

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Actually, it is even funier that than. Opening, saving default bios produces a file atiwinflash doesn't recognize as valid. If I change the temp range however, it might work, or not, some combination oddly work, some not.

My extracted bios, in case it might help : Here

Thanks a lot

3d_jc

Okay, having this and after some thinking: The reason is that WinFlash is calculating the checksum wrongly! :eek: This has been known before (see RBE's internal FAQ). The problem is that ATI violates the PCI standards with its new 128 kB sized BIOSes and due to this, WinFlash calculates the checksum not of the entire file but only a part of it. This is a really unpleasant issue because WinFlash usually does not offer to force a flash which will be necessary to flash such a file because WinFlash is fooled by the BIOS itself to think that the checksum was incorrect.
Again, this is a problem caused by ATI, not RBE. Try using ATIFlash to flash your BIOS, use the force option if necessary.
 

BAGZZlash

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I just added display for the checksum WinFlash calculates. This feature is to come with RBE v1.13. Thanks again for the hint.

Let's just hope ATI fixes this mistake in a future WinFlash version.

@ FR@NK: The text you just removed wasn't wrong, this is actually true also. Thanks by the way for answering! :toast:
 
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Can we get a sneak preview ?
 

BAGZZlash

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Can we get a sneak preview ?

Sure, but I'm afraid this is nothing too exciting. Moreover, I'm not sure if this is how it will look eventually.

Everything okay:


Divergency between the two checksum algorithms:
 

3d_jc

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ok, this is definitively weird.

First of all, you can force atiwinfash to flash like you do for the dos version ("atiwinflash -f -p 0 mybios.rom")

So I tried to flash the bios resulting from just opening and saving my extracted bios. I was expecting a no change in behaviour. Well , not so

Initial bios regulates arround 82°
Saved bios regulates arround 71°

So there is something in your bios 'changes' that the (or my ?) 4870 does make use of

Initial bios is Here
Saved bios is here

Also, just to confirn, I have after flashing the 'saved' version, I have re-extracted with GPU-Z, to make sure the winflash wasn't part of the issue, the two file are 100% identical, so I don't need to go to dos ;)

3d_jc
 
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Vit3D

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Hi all.

Have practically the same problem as 3d_jc described.
After testing my new MSI HD4870 I decided to change fan control, coz it's default settings simply huge. :mad:
I extracted BIOS using GPU-Z v0.2.6
Made fan control modification in RBE (v1.12) ("Set all settings to recommended ....)
When I used ATIWinFlash I got msg "BIOS file not found" (or like this)
and with ATIFlas (DOS boot from USB) the error was - "0FL01 - Invalid PC Bios Image".

As I understand the problem is in some incompatibility in checksum calculation in RBE and ATI bios flash tools.
But I'd like to ask is it safe to force (-f) flashing such BIOS if ATI bios flash tools did not recognize it's checksum correctly?
 

3d_jc

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Yes, you can go ahead, the checksum is insconsistent for the reason described earlier. Tried it this morning, didn't have any issue

3d_jc
 

Vit3D

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Thanks 3d_jc ! :)
And one more question - my main OS is WinXP x64, so I think it's better for me to use DOS tool to avoid some x64 compatibility problem in ATIWinFlash (if it has some), correct?
 

3d_jc

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i can't quite say for XP 64, but I'm using Vista 64 SP1 and atiwinflash works like a charm for me, but then again, your experience may differ :s

You'r probably on the safer side using the DOS version

3d_jc
 

3d_jc

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ok, this is definitively weird.

First of all, you can force atiwinfash to flash like you do for the dos version ("atiwinflash -f -p 0 mybios.rom")

So I tried to flash the bios resulting from just opening and saving my extracted bios. I was expecting a no change in behaviour. Well , not so

Initial bios regulates arround 82°
Saved bios regulates arround 71°

So there is something in your bios 'changes' that the (or my ?) 4870 does make use of

Initial bios is Here
Saved bios is here

Also, just to confirn, I have after flashing the 'saved' version, I have re-extracted with GPU-Z, to make sure the winflash wasn't part of the issue, the two file are 100% identical, so I don't need to go to dos ;)

3d_jc

After using that bios for a day, I can also add that is is not only a question of shifting temps, it is also a much more aggressive slope as well for the fan regulation, it will very agressively try to cool it at 72° or so. I just had for exemple 1400 RPM at 71° and 2400 at 74°

Side question BAGZZlash, do you plan to enable us to change the bios max clock values ?

Thanks de lot for your help

3d_jc
 

markino

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To answer my own question - this worked well with a Gecube 3870 OC Edition Turbo etc (model XHD370XTG4-E3). Bios attached.

Currently running idle with the GPU at 297mhz in 2d on 1.0v, memory at 558, stable (as far as I can tell) at 45-6 degrees c and entirely passive (ie fan at 0%). Running 3d full tilt with the GPU at 850.50, memory at 1197 on 1.327v (I haven't tried reducing the voltage down at this end yet, there may be some headroom), stable at about 90 degrees c with around 50% fan, which is still very quiet. Obviously I could ramp the fan up more, but the card seems reasonably happy running at this temp.

I also haven't tried reducing the 2d voltage below 1.0v - seems ridiculous that it could run happily on so little power and I don't want to push my luck. But who knows.

Full system power consumption (without monitor) is 69-71 watts idle, about 200 watts gaming (5000+ Black Edition passively cooled by Scythe Ninja, Abit NF-M2 nview motherboard, 2GB ram, 2 x 7200 drives and a DVD burner).

Incidentally, that idle power consumption is only about 3w more than my 7600gt, which is an insanely low power card, so I think the 3870 is performing pretty well from an efficiency point of view.
 

Attachments

  • gecube (my tweaked original 14) 2D - 300, 560, 1.00 3D - 860, 1200, 1.327.zip
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BAGZZlash

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After using that bios for a day, I can also add that is is not only a question of shifting temps, it is also a much more aggressive slope as well for the fan regulation, it will very agressively try to cool it at 72° or so. I just had for exemple 1400 RPM at 71° and 2400 at 74°

To explain this in more detail: In RBE's fan control tab, click on "What do all the settings mean?" and read the explanations there. You can see that the transfer function is not a function of Tmax. That's why many BIOSes' transfer function is programmed to be like this:



The transfer function's actual value will not meet up with Tmax at 100% fan duty. As you can imagine, this may lead to an unexpected behaviour regarding the actual transfer function. Please note that the slope of a transfer function like this is less steep than it should actually be to meet Tmax at 100% fan duty.
As RBE loads a BIOS, the slope is calculated to do exactly this and thus, the transfer function is consistent again. Of course, this leads to a steeper transfer function as Tmax remains unchanged. You can see this if you load your both BIOSes (one after the other) into RBE. Look at the slope box in the fan tab and compare the two BIOSes. If you like your slope to be less steep, just move your Tmax more to the right or your Tmin more to the left. :)

Side question BAGZZlash, do you plan to enable us to change the bios max clock values ?

I am, but I need information on this that are hard to acquire. Don't expect this any soon, sorry.
 

Vit3D

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Today I changed BIOS fan control in my MSI HD4870.
Everything works fine now, a lot of thanks for this great tool!!! :)
In 2D applications GPU temperature stabilize at 50C with fan speed 2380 RPM (35%), so practically no additional nose from card fan and (most important) no extra hot in case :)

For this result I used such settings:
Tmin - 42, Tmax - 101
Duty cycle min - 18
(Tspole - 22)
Hysteresys - 10, Tmin Hysteresys - 4
PWM ramp 1
Also I leave native MSI Spin up settings -- 84 and 2

Thanks again!!! :)
 
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hi..., my first reflashing bios with RBE, quite easy, i like it...
might i ask?, how much max voltage allowed at bios?
in rbe i change all voltage values, except clock info 01&02, is it the right way, if wrong, which clock info allowed to change?
im using 4850, HIS but with MSI's bios.
thanks...
 
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I edited a asus top 4870 bios with rbe and when i flashed it with atiflash, the model number
and bios number were blank, i rebooted and the card bricked... i resurrected it with my old pci
s3 virge/dx (bad ass card) and now the card is fine. The bios looked alright when i saved it,
what did i done wrong?
 
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Did you forced the flash? Did you check the modded bios if those values are filled in. How did you do the flash when you card got bricked? Was it under Windows/Dos?

It would be handy if you post your "dangerus modded" bios in the "RBE bug report" thread. Its a shame you didn't made a copy of the bios which was on your bricked card.
 
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