Post your 3dmark06 HD 3K Series Results

freaksavior · Jul 16, 2008

candle_86 said:
woot im top of dual core crossfireX woot

and the only one

cdawall · Jul 16, 2008

candle_86 said:
woot im top of dual core crossfireX woot

like hell you are

http://service.futuremark.com/resultComparison.action?compareResultId=6687940&compareResultType=14

thats an AX2 5000BE @3.2ghz and xfired 3850 256mb @674/832

erocker · Jul 20, 2008

Well, this thread is specifically for 3dMark 06 scores. You are more than welcome to post them in a different thread though. :toast:

MadClown · Jul 24, 2008

HD 3870, 3dmark06 default settings

Zax85 · Jul 26, 2008

reverze said:
Hmmm..

Think I can break 11k on air?

I'm sure it will be possible once we get some even better drivers..

14207 easy!... :cool:

Wile E · Jul 29, 2008

monohouse said:
·
why ?

CPU speed.

HELLSPAWNPR · Aug 1, 2008

my score

Dr. Spankenstein · Aug 1, 2008

I could give some Riva screenshots later. What are you trying to determine?

trt740 · Aug 1, 2008

HELLSPAWNPR said:

not too bad nice bench

Dr. Spankenstein · Aug 1, 2008

monohouse said:
whether or not crossfire/SLI sucks compared to one-card of same type in real games instead of benchmarks

CF/SLI sucking is totally subjective.

Either you WANT to pay for a second card or you DON'T.
I (personally) appreciate everything my CF setup has done for me. Sure it doesn't scale well in a FEW games and doesn't scale at all in fewer, but I'll take it when I can get it... :rockout:

Dr. Spankenstein · Aug 1, 2008

Screenies as promised:

I have provided the graph that is created by the secondary card. Nothig lower that 53% useage on 2nd card, the rest is pretty self-explanitory.

Here is Call of Juarez @ 1920x1200, AF, all others "HIGH":

Sucks....?

Methinks not. Especially for DX10 games.

sinister_steve · Aug 3, 2008

3d Mark Score

Heres mine...I like the ofuture mark on the web site as you knoe no one can change settings and show fulse readings..Steve

http://service.futuremark.com/home.action?resultId=184115&resultType=22

sinister_steve · Aug 3, 2008

monohouse said:
thanks, btw a 3000 mhz phenom with a hd4850 15k is good ? I heard the phenom's suck at anything that isn't multithreaded is that true ?

Hey man..No the phenoms are sweet as hell..they are fast for everything I can throw at it..and they OC damn goot to ..jUST TONIGHT i HAD IT AT 3.6GHZ AND STILL NEVER CRASHED..So just letting you know these 9850 black editions are very very fast...I read out there about them beeing slow a lot ,and I sortof thought so myself untill I oc a bit and then look at her rip it up now...Steve

Dr. Spankenstein · Aug 3, 2008

I'm still on stock coolers. During those tests I only had the fan set to 70%, always 1.6v and clocked @ 875 core for both. Ambient is more like 25C.

Do you have more than 1.6v going to your cards? I have a sneeking suspicion that your water cooling isn't up to the task. You've just got more heat going than can be transferred out of the loop.

The higher temps during games can be attributed to particular settings in BOTH CCC and in-game.

Try this as an example: Run a timedemo (or something that is repeatable) and record the results of temps while only changing MipMap detail and AF to MAX and MIN. The artifact scanner does not have any provision to change quality settings so if your settings in CCC are "Use game defaults" it will be on the lowest quality UNLESS you "force" these settings in CCC.

budbik · Aug 4, 2008

I thought I was getting low scores but this thread was a great tool for comparison
My temps are extremely hot for stock cpu speeds I need to upgrade the stock cpu cooler for sure

Dr. Spankenstein · Aug 4, 2008

monohouse said:
do not have CCC, but I can modify the necessary settings in the registry, what are you sayin that the higher are the settings (AA/AF, mipmap) the higher is the temperature ? yes my registry parameters are at default

That is exactly what I'm saying. I'm guessing you are using "HIGH" settings in-game. That would account for the higher temps.

monohouse said:
the voltage appears to be dropping over time, right now it has reached about 1.6 yhe, not much higher even if it would be any higher, do you think the temperature is something to be concerned about ?

I don't know where people have gotten the idea that these GPUs cam operate at 90C without issues. If anything (in my experience), the smaller fabrication seems to be less tolerant of temps. I'm not positive, but I think your leevated temps are what is keeping your card from reaching 1GHz stable @ 1.6v.

monohouse said:
what you meen transferred out of the loop ? as in radiators or as in vgablock ?
idle temp is around 50, I do think that there may be some other parameter that doesn't show up, which support the possibility of a radiator/fan problem, the heat took a long time to reach 87 C, about 30 minutes, in the past I saw water cooling systems from other people and they had "heat buildups", regardless of the quality of the radiators, they just didn't have enough of them, usually those were people with powerful pumps with too little amount of radiators like only 120mm (heat increases faster because water moving faster), there is some dirt in the radiators, maybe I should clean them, didn't clean them up for like 6 months, how does it look when it is a block problem ? faster increase ? because i had a pipe problem a long time ago which caused temporary increase in temperature and then it had to throttle and then the water kicked in and reduced to 60 C and then back to 110 C, but this is constant, im gonna check the entire system make sure all is ok, thanks

it appears to be some kind of bug in sensors, when started something the game first and then riva the temp was no higher than 65 C after I quit the game and started it again, it shows 80 C and starts to increase slowly, as if there is some kind of bug in the sensors

appears to be in rivatuner or it's statistics server: switch to game, switch to riva, switch some process, swtich back to game and temperature changes in the same place

it appears to be also in gpu-z sensors, seems like a hardware sensors problem in the card
still, it looks like there was a lote of dust in the radiators, I cleaned it all up, and it seems the cpu temps with two prime95's reduced from 58-59 to 51-52 @ 12V, and there seems to be less noise from the radiator fans, usually at that speed they were loud

Kinda curious that both software would be having issues reporting temps, don't you think?

I was referring to your ENTIRE watercooling system. Each part is integral to the sytem's ability to effectively remove heat from the loop. The blocks must be of good design to transfer heat to the water, the pump has to move it through the tubing and radiator at a rate that works with the radiator's (and fan's) ability to remove the heat from the water. One weak link in that chain makes the whole setup poor. Your radiator that was clogged with dust was a big one. No need to "insulate" the fins!

With the kind of comp you are trying to run (and overclock), I still suggest you move to more "high end" watercooling components.

Wile E · Aug 5, 2008

monohouse said:
yes, both software are reporting the same temperature indication problems, which means there is some kind of problem with the sensor itself or the data it sends, but there is no way to play a whole game for 30 minutes, switch to other process (2D clocks), switch back and see a temp that is 20-30 degrees higher than it was the entire game and then only to switch again and see the temps go back the way they were, did anyone experience any of these funny temperature behaviour ?

upgrading the watercooling system beyond what it currently is, is a waste of money, water has a limit and improving it is small difference at best, if im going to invest in cooling beyond what I already have, im gonna go xtreme, which I won't unless it was worth.

now that I have checked the entire system, it now operates at full performance, which leads me to believe that the temperature is 65 C maximum and no higher, because that is the first temperature that is reported before a process switch occurs, and it is also the only one that makes sense (at 85+ C there is gpu throttling, which does not occur, otherwise would be visible in-game) in whitch case you think the cooling is good ? I have tried to use the DMM thermometer on the waterblock but it wouldn't be accurate cause it's too far away from the actual chip.

I think that if I can't get reliable temperature information there is no way to know what the problem is, or whether or not there is a problem at all, except the gpu throttling, which so far I never seen. my only indication is your temp, if your temp is 78 C with stock cooling and no voltmod at 25 C room temp, and we know that water cooling limits the difference between highest and lowest temperature (water load-idle < air load-idle), assuming a 35 C room temp would put it about 88 C, using water cooling it reduces that max temp at load to about half of that (as far as I can remember since I had the stock cooling), assuming 44 C, add voltmod get +10 C which puts it about 54 C, but still if anyone could comment on temperatures of 3870 with waterblock and room temp could provide for a more accurate indication of the estimate.

about the 1000 mhz stable, it's possible that either room temp (although I do have 2x80 mm fans on the card at bottom) or I have the earlier design with the resistor problems they had at production (I bought it very early, the same day it was available actually) or like with CPU I just have a low overclockability problem as with any other chip (not all chips can clock the same) which so far leads me to believe that this is the case

Actually, the Bigwater 745 is not a very good water cooling system. Thermaltake makes poor water cooling systems. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

You would see a big difference by going with better water cooling parts. I bet just replacing your pump with a DDC-1 would make a noticeable difference.

nINJAkECIL · Aug 7, 2008

Crossfire HD3870, HIS HD3870 IceQ3 and Gecube HD3870 Xturbo III. all stock. using E4300@3,6ghz, and P965 chipset >.< Abit AB9-QuadGT:

boogah · Aug 7, 2008

wait y didn't you crossfire them

nINJAkECIL · Aug 7, 2008

boogah said:
wait y didn't you crossfire them

yeah, I Crossfire them. I don't know about the 'disabled but available' on GPU-Z, but indeed I check at the Catalyst Control Center and Crossfire already active. but then again, using AB9 QuadGT, I only got x16 and x4 PCI-E bandwidht

Evo85 · Aug 7, 2008

I got 9105 last night with 800/1000 Win XP SP3

Dr. Spankenstein · Aug 7, 2008

monohouse said:
yes, both software are reporting the same temperature indication problems, which means there is some kind of problem with the sensor itself or the data it sends, but there is no way to play a whole game for 30 minutes, switch to other process (2D clocks), switch back and see a temp that is 20-30 degrees higher than it was the entire game and then only to switch again and see the temps go back the way they were, did anyone experience any of these funny temperature behaviour ?

You're right. That does appear odd. If NOTHING changes between the differing temp readings (you don't kick down the fans on the rad) then there does appear to be some issue (that I've never heard of). I don't know how you have your overclock on you CPU, but sometimes enabling a "Loadline calibration" function can deliver significantly MORE volts to the CPU at Idle that it does under load (this stating beyond vDroop).

I, like Wile E, believe that your watercooling is being overwhelmed.

monohouse said:
upgrading the watercooling system beyond what it currently is, is a waste of money, water has a limit and improving it is small difference at best, if im going to invest in cooling beyond what I already have, im gonna go xtreme, which I won't unless it was worth.

This is a misconception you need to let go. You have not reached the limits of watercooling, you have reached the limits of YOUR watercooling system. There are reasons that radiators are rated by the amount of heat (usually listed as BTU-British Thermal Units) that it can dissapate per hour. The effectivness of the radiator, it's fans, the flow within the loop, the efficiency of the water block AND ambient temperatures are the cornerstones of how effective your watercooling will be.

monohouse said:
now that I have checked the entire system, it now operates at full performance, which leads me to believe that the temperature is 65 C maximum and no higher, because that is the first temperature that is reported before a process switch occurs, and it is also the only one that makes sense (at 85+ C there is gpu throttling, which does not occur, otherwise would be visible in-game) in whitch case you think the cooling is good ? I have tried to use the DMM thermometer on the waterblock but it wouldn't be accurate cause it's too far away from the actual chip.

This is a lot of conjecture. Where have you EVER read that these 55nm cards throttle @ 85C? And to be safe, don't confuse a DMM (Digital Multimeter) with a infrared thermometer. Taking temps with a DMM wil surely lead to a fried card when you bridge something with you probe. (He, he...I said "probe"! :laugh:

)

monohouse said:
I think that if I can't get reliable temperature information there is no way to know what the problem is, or whether or not there is a problem at all, except the gpu throttling, which so far I never seen. my only indication is your temp, if your temp is 78 C with stock cooling and no voltmod at 25 C room temp, and we know that water cooling limits the difference between highest and lowest temperature (water load-idle < air load-idle), assuming a 35 C room temp would put it about 88 C, using water cooling it reduces that max temp at load to about half of that (as far as I can remember since I had the stock cooling), assuming 44 C, add voltmod get +10 C which puts it about 54 C, but still if anyone could comment on temperatures of 3870 with waterblock and room temp could provide for a more accurate indication of the estimate.

As I stated in my post previously, this was with the voltmod. Voltages were @ 1.6V.
You are pretty generous with your mathematical guestimations. Those MIGHT be valid IF you were on a primo watercooled rig. Search some posts from asb2106. He has an awesome setup much like what you are trying to achieve: CF 3870, voltmodded, watercooled with full coverage blocks. That would be a PERFECT resource.

monohouse said:
about the 1000 mhz stable, it's possible that either room temp (although I do have 2x80 mm fans on the card at bottom) or I have the earlier design with the resistor problems they had at production (I bought it very early, the same day it was available actually) or like with CPU I just have a low overclockability problem as with any other chip (not all chips can clock the same) which so far leads me to believe that this is the case

I have the same type of cards. If you got them when they first came out, you have what are referred to as "reference" cards, since the design does not deviate from the original design in board layout or cooling.

I would really like to see some photos of your voltage readings and these screwy temp readings (if you would, include CPU-z, GPU-z and whatever probram you are using to overclock the cards.) From there we might be able to determine what exactly is happening with your system. :toast:

Clutch442 · Aug 9, 2008

Well I'm new around here, Is this where you post your scores?
Also I hope you can read it, I don't know how to do that resize thing.

I see my System Specs didn't show up???

Well I changed that (obvious noobe)

Wile E · Aug 10, 2008

Personally, I would start with the pump. It's a known weak point of the Thermaltake systems. Low flow, and high failure rates. I would get a Laing DDC3.2 (Swiftech MCP-355).

Next I would change the blocks. I would go for a D-Tek Fuzion V2 for the cpu, and probably Dangerden Maze5 block for the gpu(s). I stick to universal gpu waterblocks because you can continue to use them if you upgrade your card. Just make sure you keep the vregs and mem of the card cool. The stock heatspreaders in combination with a couple well placed fans is usually enough to get the job done. Better would be to replace the factory heatspreader with some high quality ramsinks. If you get a full coverage block, not only does it add the heat of the vmem and vregs to the loop, potentially lowering your gpu overclock, you also have to buy a new block if you buy a new card and want to watercool it.

When that was done, I would move on to the rads. Rad choice would depend strictly on my budget. If I had $130 to spend, I would get a Thermochill 120.3 or a Dangerden 480. If I had a $50 or lower budget, I'd look at the Swiftech MCR offerings. Great bang for the buck.

The great thing about water cooling systems is their modularity. You can upgrade them piece by piece as money allows.

boogah · Aug 11, 2008

== Quadcore == == Single HD3870 ==

System Spec:

Q9450 @ 3.6 450x8 1800 FSB
P5E-Deluxe X48
OCZ 4 GB platinum DDR-1066 @ 900Mhz
MSI HD 3870 OC edition 850/1200 on stock fan @ 1.338 V
OCZ Pro X Stream 1000w PSU
Noctua NH-C12P CPU cooler

System Name	ZeroUptime \| M.A.S.S / MM1
Processor	Xeon 2659 v3 / Xeon 2683 v4 / ARM A14
Motherboard	Asus X99-E-10G WS / ASRock x99 usb 3.1 / Apple
Cooling	NZXT Kraken / Noctua NH-L12 / Apple
Memory	16Gb DDR4 / 32Gb DDR4 / 16GB HBLM
Video Card(s)	Powercooler ATI vega 64 / GT 7300 / ARM
Storage	Samsung 970 512 Evo NVMe / A lot. / 256 + 512 External TB3
Display(s)	Acer Predator X34 / Headless / Acer X34 Non predator
Case	NZXT H630 \|Rosewill 8bay 4u server chasiss / MMM1
Audio Device(s)	Onboard / Onboard / Onboard
Power Supply	Corais HX850 \| Corsair TX750 / Internal 250w
Mouse	g502 proteus core / Headless / g502 proteus core
Keyboard	Corsair K95 Cherry Blue / Headless / K65 Cherry Red
Software	Windows 10 / ESXI / Big Sur 11.2.2

System Name	All the cores
Processor	2990WX
Motherboard	Asrock X399M
Cooling	CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory	4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s)	(2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage	2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s)	Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case	Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s)	Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse	Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard	Keychron K8
Software	W10P

Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASUS TUF x670e
Cooling	EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory	32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s)	Asus RTX 4090
Storage	WD m.2
Display(s)	LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case	Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s)	Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Headphone Amp.
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse	Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard	Tester84
Software	Windows 11

System Name	Turbo_Fighter/Pitbull
Processor	AMD FX-9590/Intel i7 6700K 4.7GHZ @ 1.41 volts
Motherboard	Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Rev 4.0/Gigabyte GA-Z170N-Gaming 5
Cooling	Corsair H105/Corsair H100iv2
Memory	32 GB G.Skill Ares/32 GB G.Skill Trident-Z
Video Card(s)	XFX Radeon R9 Fury X/Sapphire R9 Nano
Storage	Mix of HDDs SSDs Externals and a 256GB Samsung M.2 in the pitbull
Display(s)	24" Nixeus 144hz freesync/24'' Benq XL2420TE/21.5'' Asus VH226/Panasonic 42" Plasma
Case	White Phantom NZXT/Fractal Define Nano S
Audio Device(s)	MayFlower O2 ODAC/HT Omega Claro+/Turtlebeach Earforce DSS
Power Supply	Corsair AX1200i/Thermaltake Smart 650Watt(EVGA GS 650 Watt took a shit on me)
Mouse	Logitech G502
Keyboard	Corsair K70
Software	Windows 10
Benchmark Scores	They can run Crysis.

System Name	Game Special
Processor	Intel Q6600 (2.4ghz)
Motherboard	GIGABYTE GA-P31-DS3L
Cooling	Scythe Mine
Memory	4GB Kingston PC6400 (DDR2)
Video Card(s)	nVidia (Zotac) GeForce 280GTX
Storage	Excelstor(80GB), Maxtor(500GB)
Display(s)	Belinea 22" Wide o.display
Case	Thermaltake V9
Audio Device(s)	Onboard(Realtek Surround)
Power Supply	Thermaltake 750W Toughpower
Software	Windows VISTA x64
Benchmark Scores	3DMark06: Total = 12xxx SM 2.0 score = 48xx SM 3.0 score = 61xx CPU score = 34xx

System Name	The ClusterF**k
Processor	980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling	MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory	3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s)	Evga GTX 580
Storage	Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s)	HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case	Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s)	Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply	ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software	Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4

System Name	HELLSING
Processor	AMD X4 630 @ 3.6ghz
Motherboard	Asus Crosshair IV
Cooling	5 x Coolermaster 120mm / 2x Zalman92mm/ 2x Enermax Vegas 120mm
Memory	4GB ADATA X series 9+9+9+24
Video Card(s)	2 X Powercolor ATI 5850 CF OC 850/1050
Storage	80 GB WD Raptor/ 500GB segate & WD 160GB SATA
Display(s)	Viewsonic 22 inch WS
Case	Chieftec
Audio Device(s)	onboard
Power Supply	Corsair GS800
Software	Wndows 7 Ultimate

Processor	Intel C2D E8500 @ 4.25GHz (1.36V)
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6
Cooling	(Temporary) Tuniq Tower 120
Memory	2GB Transcend aXeram 1200+
Video Card(s)	HIS HD3870 CF Volt modded
Storage	3 Seagate 320Gb Barracuda in an Intel Matrix Raid array
Display(s)	Sony GDM-FW900 24" Widescreen CRT (a.k.a "The Shiznotch")
Case	Ultra Aluminus Full Tower
Audio Device(s)	onboard Intel HD audio
Power Supply	PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750
Software	XP MCE + Vista (HP) dual-boot

System Name	Apple Bite
Processor	Intel I5
Motherboard	Apple
Memory	40gb of DDR 4 2700
Video Card(s)	ATI Radeon 500
Storage	Fusion Drive 1 TB
Display(s)	27 Inch IMac late 2017

System Name	fun box
Processor	PHENOM 9850 BE
Motherboard	M3A32-MVP DELUXE WIFI
Cooling	ANTEC 900
Memory	4 GIG DDR2+
Video Card(s)	2X ASUS 4850
Storage	160GIG
Case	ANTEC 900
Audio Device(s)	MAKES MUSIC AND THINGS PLAY
Power Supply	650 ANTEC
Software	WIN XP
Benchmark Scores	15239

Processor	i7 3770K@4.7ghz
Motherboard	MSI Z77A-GD65
Cooling	Thermalright Venomous X black
Memory	V-GEN 4x4GB DDR3
Video Card(s)	Zotac GTX-560Ti
Storage	Crucial M4 64GB \| WD Green 1TB \| Seagate 1TB \| Seagate 500GB
Display(s)	Viewsonic VA2013WM
Case	Corsair Carbide 400R
Audio Device(s)	Audigy 2ZS Platinum
Power Supply	Corsair AX750W
Software	Win7 x64
Benchmark Scores	http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=371985

System Name	Core i7 WS
Processor	i7 920 D0 @ 4.2 GHz
Motherboard	ASUS P6T WS Professional
Cooling	Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme RT1366
Memory	6gb 3x2gb Crucial DDR3
Video Card(s)	Firepro V8700
Storage	Velociraptor 300gb in raid0
Display(s)	2x Dell Ultrasharp 24"
Case	Antec Twelve Hundred
Audio Device(s)	onboard sound
Power Supply	Corsair HX1000
Software	Windows 7 64-bit

System Name	Evil Dragon
Processor	AMD FX-8320 Vishera @4.7ghz
Motherboard	Asus 970 pro gaming Aura
Cooling	Corsair Hydro Series H100i V2(fully Lapped). 4 40mm NB/VRM fans. 6 Thermaltake Riing 12 Series fans
Memory	2X8gig GeIL EVO Veloce Series DDR3 1600 @9.9.9.26
Video Card(s)	Powercolor Red Devil RX 480 (1400/2100)
Storage	PNY XLR8 480gig SSD. Patriot Pyro SE 60gig SSD.
Display(s)	ASUS VP228H LED
Case	Thermaltake Core V31
Audio Device(s)	Onboard Realtek ALC1150 W/Creative Sound Blaster Cinema 2
Power Supply	EVGA 850 BQ 110
Keyboard	Roccat Isku FX
Software	Win 10 Pro

System Name	Carpeter442
Processor	AMD 5000+ BE @3210
Motherboard	MSI K9A2 Platinum
Cooling	AC Freezer 64 Pro
Memory	2 GB OZC PC 6400
Video Card(s)	Visiontek HD 3870 OC Edition Sapphire HD 3870 "Toxic" Crossfire
Storage	WD 320 GB / Hitachi 250 GB
Display(s)	View Sonic 19" P95fx CRT
Case	Antec SX 835
Power Supply	Antec Earthwatts 500 + Thermaltake 450W Power Express
Benchmark Scores	3D Mark 06 12342 (so far)

Post your 3dmark06 HD 3K Series Results

HD Series

3870 X2 Crossfire

3870 X2

3870 Crossfire

3870

3850 Crossfire

3850

3650 Crossfire (WHY??!!)

3650 (WHY??)

3470 Crossfire (WHY??!!)

3470 (WHY??)

3450 Crossfire (WHY??!!)

3450 (WHY??)

To infinity ... and beyond!

where the hell are my stars

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