[AnandTech] Core i7: Is High vDimm really a problem?

InnocentCriminal · Oct 9, 2008

Really interesting article over at AnandTech for those of you interest in the whole VDimm malarkey with the upcoming Core i7 CPUs and DDR3 voltages...

Gary Key said:
Numerous articles and forum posts have been popping up recently about the potential of high VDimm settings damaging or destroying the upcoming i7 processor series. Will high VDimm cause damage? The answer to that question is not so simple actually. Unfortunately, due to the current NDA status, we cannot go into detail about this subject matter but can provide a general brief on it.

... any of you lot jumped the gun and already have some DDR3? Planning on upgrading or are you holding out for the boards & BIOS to mature?

Enjoy!

alexp999 · Oct 9, 2008

InnocentCriminal said:
Planning on upgrading or are you holding out for the boards & BIOS to mature?

Enjoy!

Thats gonna be me. Waiting till after christmas or possibly as late as next summer. Depends on what comes out between now and then. I'm gonna be more interestedin the nehalem equivalent of my P45. And like you say, allow BIOS' to mature and prices to drop.

InnocentCriminal · Oct 9, 2008

Fair play.

Really you don't need to buy into Nehalem, your machine is more than enough for up coming games. You've already got 4 cores at a freakishly fast speed backed up by a stupidly good GFX card. You've got at least 3 years in that machine.

Mussels · Oct 9, 2008

the way i look at it, is that if an overclocker has a CPU faster than commercially available, its fast enough for any game

(it has to be, or its one useless game)

so anyone with a 4GHz dual, or a 3.2GHz+ quad... you pwned the consumer market

Anyway, i'm waiting for nehalems die shrink. look at core2 65nm vs 45nm, and imagine that all over again.

alexp999 · Oct 9, 2008

Mussels said:
the way i look at it, is that if an overclocker has a CPU faster than commercially available, its fast enough for any game (it has to be, or its one useless game)

so anyone with a 4GHz dual, or a 3.2GHz+ quad... you pwned the consumer market

Anyway, i'm waiting for nehalems die shrink. look at core2 65nm vs 45nm, and imagine that all over again.

how about when we get to 1000pm and below!

Not gonna spend money for the hell of it. Would rather wait and see if mobo MF's can get it so that the ram voltage isnt controlled by the CPU.
Mind you in that time, RAM MF's should respond by bringing out low voltage high clocking DDR3.

We'll see. When it gets to the point I cant run my game at the settings I want to at around 60 FPS (with the exception of crysis :rolleyes:

)

I'll look at getting a new system.

Just out of interest, if SLi is gonna be software enabled on the X58, couldnt be enabled on any chipset?

GTX 260 SLI on P45 :drool:

Mussels · Oct 9, 2008

^

waiting for 2nd gen also gets the ram stuff solved before i spend anything.

SLI was always available on intel chipsets, The drivers are what dont allow it.

alexp999 · Oct 9, 2008

Mussels said:
^

waiting for 2nd gen also gets the ram stuff solved before i spend anything.

SLI was always available on intel chipsets, The drivers are what dont allow it.

Yeah but thats what I mean. If the drivers are gonna allow it on an X58, cant the same be done for all current intel chipsets?

Mussels · Oct 9, 2008

alexp999 said:
Yeah but thats what I mean. If the drivers are gonna allow it on an X58, cant the same be done for all current intel chipsets?

yeah. but Nv will have the same check it does now, so it wont work on previous chipsets unless someone modifies them.

alexp999 · Oct 9, 2008

Mussels said:
yeah. but Nv will have the same check it does now, so it wont work on previous chipsets unless someone modifies them.

Well it should be quite simple. If the driver foundations are there to support an intel chipset, in either case, I doubt I would ever go SLi, like I did with this one, its usually better to get one beter single card than two lesser cards for the same price.
But the idea of it is pretty cool, lol.

Mussels · Oct 9, 2008

well say, two 8800GT's/9800GT's is pretty good value for money in SLI these days.

$150 au ($300 for two) and you get some pretty mean performance, especially if you OC them.

InnocentCriminal · Oct 9, 2008

Mussels said:
waiting for 2nd gen also gets the ram stuff solved before i spend anything.

See, if I had the patience to do that then I would, but depending on how my rig handles upcoming (natively) multi-threaded games I hopefully won't have to. Depending on how they run and the prices of Core 2 Quads go, then I would quite happily invest in a Q6600 with a decent DDR3 motherboard and hold out.

I'm more likely going to get more enjoyment trying to keep my ageing 939-AGP system alive. I should be moving to a 4200+ which means (if the CPU clocks as well as my 3800+) I'll be at 2.9 or higher.

I think I'll wait for the X58 compatible water-cooling kits and hope for plates allowing me to use them with my 939 board.

tan.chen1 · Oct 10, 2008

the malarkey is real

check the architectural diagram... notice anything new? the answer is staring everyone in the face...

Core i7 nehalem bloomfield architectural diagram with IMC, tri-channel DDR3
http://www.augustinefou.com/2008/10/core-i7-vdimm-problem-aka-is-high-vdimm.html

Anandtech recommends keeping vdimm at or BELOW Intel's recommended 1.65V; otherwise the lifespan of the processor may be drastically shortened

InnocentCriminal said:
Really interesting article over at AnandTech for those of you interest in the whole VDimm malarkey with the upcoming Core i7 CPUs and DDR3 voltages...

... any of you lot jumped the gun and already have some DDR3? Planning on upgrading or are you holding out for the boards & BIOS to mature?

Enjoy!

mlee49 · Oct 10, 2008

InnocentCriminal said:
Really interesting article over at AnandTech for those of you interest in the whole VDimm malarkey with the upcoming Core i7 CPUs and DDR3 voltages...

... any of you lot jumped the gun and already have some DDR3? Planning on upgrading or are you holding out for the boards & BIOS to mature?

Enjoy!

Exactly what it is!

Steevo · Oct 10, 2008

Basicly the CPU cannot handle the voltage needed to terminate the DRAM coorectly and dampen the overshoot. RAM makers need to ge with the program, if we already have DDR5 out for Graphics cards then why the wait to move other than to milk the market.

farlex85 · Oct 10, 2008

Nice latencies they got going there, interesting stuff. When is the ban on talking in depth about this going to be lifted I wonder, they keep teasing us w/ bits and pieces w/o getting into the juice of the matter. And I though these were due out soon. I'm thinking if these memory kits are doing those latencies, tri-channel gets working, and you really can oc them, these things are going to put up vastly better numbers in some things than the original preliminary numbers.

InnocentCriminal · Oct 10, 2008

mlee49 said:
Exactly what it is!

Well the word malarkey is just another way of saying bullshit.

The deal with all this vDimm nonsense is that Intel are limiting the amount of voltage your RAM can use for safe operation (which means doesn't physically damage your CPU/Motherboard). So, they're (Intel) maximum value for safe operation (which means doesn't physically damage your CPU/Motherboard) is 1.65volts. The problem then comes from the fact most new, high performance (1600MHz+) DDR3 modules have a minimum voltage of 1.8v which is outside of Intel's safe zone.

I think it could be a deterrent the same way invalidating your warranty is when you overclock components, but the review I've linked to is a, preview to the whole deal before the NDA is lifted and sites can review the boards properly.

alexp999 · Oct 10, 2008

Steevo said:
Basicly the CPU cannot handle the voltage needed to terminate the DRAM coorectly and dampen the overshoot. RAM makers need to ge with the program, if we already have DDR5 out for Graphics cards then why the wait to move other than to milk the market.

Dont forget there is a difference between GDDR Ram and DDR Ram.

DDR is at the DDR3 stage while GDDR is at the GDDR5 stage. I dont claim to know a great deal about it, but I know there is a difference

eidairaman1 · Oct 10, 2008

Nehalem was more of a server side upgrade, basically meaning its not worth the upgrade unless if your going to be running a server.

alexp999 · Oct 10, 2008

eidairaman1 said:
Nehalem was more of a server side upgrade, basically meaning its not worth the upgrade unless if your going to be running a server.

True, until game developers pull their fingers out and get some good coded, multi-threaded games. Thats what MS wants to bring to the table with DX11. To make it easier to do so.
Dont forget, Nehalem features two threads per core, as opposed to one thread per core on the current Core 2 series.

System Name	BeeR 6
Processor	Intel Core i7 3770K*
Motherboard	ASUS Maximus V Gene (1155/Z77)
Cooling	Corsair H100i
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Video Card(s)	4GB MSI Gaming X RX480
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Power Supply	Corsair HX750W
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Benchmark Scores	@ 4.6GHz *@ 2133MHz

System Name	Gaming Rig \| Uni Laptop
Processor	Intel Q6600 G0 (2007) @ 3.6Ghz @ 1.45625v (LLC) / 4 GHz Bench @ 1.63v \| AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-62 2 GHz
Motherboard	ASUS P5Q Deluxe (Intel P45) \| HP 6715b
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Video Card(s)	XFX GTX 285 1GB, Modded FTW BIOS @ 725/1512/1350 w/Accelero Xtreme GTX 280 + Scythe sinks\| ATI X1250
Storage	2x WD6400AAKS 1 TB Raid 0, 140GB Raid 1 & 80GB Maxtor Basics External HDD (storage) \| 160GB 2.5"
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Power Supply	Corsair TX650W \| HP 90W
Software	Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7100 x64 \| Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7100 x64
Benchmark Scores	3DM06: 19519, Vantage: P16170 ~ Win7: -CPU 7.5 -MEM 7.5 -AERO 7.9 -GFX 6.0 -HDD 6.0

System Name	BeeR 6
Processor	Intel Core i7 3770K*
Motherboard	ASUS Maximus V Gene (1155/Z77)
Cooling	Corsair H100i
Memory	16GB Samsung Green 1600MHz DDR3**
Video Card(s)	4GB MSI Gaming X RX480
Storage	256GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Display(s)	27" Samsung C27F591FDU
Case	Fractal Design Arc Mini
Power Supply	Corsair HX750W
Software	64bit Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores	@ 4.6GHz *@ 2133MHz

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
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Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
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Motherboard	ASUS P5Q Deluxe (Intel P45) \| HP 6715b
Cooling	Xigmatek Dark Knight w/AC MX2 ~ Case Fans: 2 x 180mm + 1 x 120mm Silverstone Fans
Memory	4GB OCZ Platinum PC2-8000 @ 1000Mhz 5-5-5-15 2.1v \| 2 x 1GB DDR2 667 MHz
Video Card(s)	XFX GTX 285 1GB, Modded FTW BIOS @ 725/1512/1350 w/Accelero Xtreme GTX 280 + Scythe sinks\| ATI X1250
Storage	2x WD6400AAKS 1 TB Raid 0, 140GB Raid 1 & 80GB Maxtor Basics External HDD (storage) \| 160GB 2.5"
Display(s)	Samsung SyncMaster SM2433BW @ 1920 x 1200 via DVI-D \| 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680 x 1050 resolution)
Case	Silverstone Fortress FT01B-W ~ Logitech G15 R1 / Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000
Audio Device(s)	Soundmax AD2000BX Onboard Sound, via Logitech X-230 2.1 \| ADI SoundMAX HD Audio
Power Supply	Corsair TX650W \| HP 90W
Software	Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7100 x64 \| Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7100 x64
Benchmark Scores	3DM06: 19519, Vantage: P16170 ~ Win7: -CPU 7.5 -MEM 7.5 -AERO 7.9 -GFX 6.0 -HDD 6.0

[AnandTech] Core i7: Is High vDimm really a problem?

InnocentCriminal

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