Really strange Stuttering/choppiness (videos included) - please help

siapnar · Nov 10, 2008

The issue: in every game, regardless of the frames per second, I experience a strange stuttering/choppy/jittering effect.

The 'stuttering' is most noticeable when the framerate drops under 50, but I've been testing games capped at 30 fps using a frame limiter because the stuttering effect is horrible at that speed.
I've tried to mimic the effect with a picture to give you an idea what to look for when viewing the videos:

Here's a link to the rar file containing 3 videos (games are Fallout3, Far Cry 2 and Crysis, although every game does it): http://www.speedyshare.com/868568646.html (11 mb)

You should be able to clearly see the choppiness. It's most apparent if you pay attention to the bottles on the shelf to the right in the Fallout3 vid, and watch the trees in the Crysis and FC2 videos.
If it's hard to see then I can upload an uncompressed video, but it'll be pretty large

My specs are as follows:

Intel E8500 3.16ghz
Diamond HD 4870 512mb
2 GB OCZ Reaper DDR2 1200mhz
ASUS P5Q mobo (normal, not deluxe or anything)
WD 120GB 7200RPM
SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
OCZ GameXstream 600w PSU
Acer AL2216W LCD
Win XP 32 bit
Latest Drivers for everything including DirectX

What I've tried (and hasn't changed anything):

-all types of graphics/texture settings in every game (capped at 30/40/50/60. Lower fps = worse stutter, but it's still apparent at 60 fps)
-tried all types of ATi CCC settings
-defragment HDD
-stock and overclocked GPU (my GPU temp is idle 45, load around 70. Fan is at 35%)
-different Radeon drivers (using Driver Cleaner)
-different GPU altogether (7900 GTO)
-3 types of mouse and keyboard
-xbox 360 controller
-setting flip queue size in ATi tool to any value (prerendered frames for Nvidia)
-disabled sound, changed sound driver, removed X-Fi and used on board sound
-flashed BIOS to new version
-swapped monitors including a CRT (which I'm currently testing with) that has absolutely no ghosting
-swapped RAM with 800mhz DDR2
-swapped PSU with OKIA 600w
I've probably tried other things, but I can't remember.

This issue is driving me crazy, since I have a pretty beefy computer, but I still can't run all games at 60 fps and the stuttering makes anything below 50 or so look awful.

Any help/suggestions/advice you guys could give me would be very appreciated.

PS. sorry if this isn't the correct forum, I didn't know which one to post in.

erocker · Nov 10, 2008

After reading your thorough post, I'd have to say the card just may be defective. :ohwell:

siapnar · Nov 10, 2008

Maybe, but I tried 2 different graphics cards, and got the issue with both of them.

Did you have a chance to look at the videos?

erocker · Nov 10, 2008

What is your pagefile set at?

EastCoasthandle · Nov 10, 2008

Post a screenshot of GPU-Z

siapnar · Nov 10, 2008

here's both

phanbuey · Nov 10, 2008

Try upping the refresh rate on your monitor... lower the resolution and up it to 75Hz and tell me if you still notice anything. I mean it sounds stupid, but try it since u already tried everything else.

Binge · Nov 10, 2008

I watched the videos and you seem pretty picky about the performance of a single 4870 at your level of graphics and lighting. That isn't just normal but if it was a problem with your card there would be foreground stuttering. Have you ever moved your head from from side to side without focusing on an object? I'm sure you'll notice the same phenomena.

lemonadesoda · Nov 10, 2008

Just some guesses on the issue:

1./ Your PCIe slot is not operating at 16x, but is somehow giving you very low data rates. Check BIOS setup, make sure your mainboard is running latest BIOS. Check results from other benchmark tools like Furmark, 3dmark06, etc.

2./ You've got a budget TFT! This tye of behavior can be lag on the TFT and NOT on the GPU. That would explain why your video demo was OK for me, but is not OK for you! Your TFT sucks. *edit* Looks like you checked into this

3./ You've done a firmware flash on the GPU that has done bad, and it has somehow f'd up the memory management. Alternatively, something is bad on the card.

4./ Pull the SB card out and check without sound just in case there is a nasty IRQ conflict.

lemonadesoda · Nov 10, 2008

I just downloaded and watched the videos.

TBH, I see no problem. That looks like 30fps rendering. So, I can only assume that WHAT YOU SEE is different from WHAT WE SEE on the very same files you uploaded. Therefore:

1./ Your TFT is the problem, or

2./ Your GPU has a problem in its "output" to the DVI port, but the fraps demos are OK, so the GPU is rendering OK in its internal framebuffers.

francis511 · Nov 10, 2008

REALLY

Gingermadman · Nov 10, 2008

Ok, I've been getting the same problem.

It's not a monitor problem. Since it started I've been getting screen ripping, ghosting and stuttering.

I'm on a CRT monitor. That should indicate it's something else.

My specs are 8500GT,2gig of ram and an amd 4200x2.

My first guess would of been a software problem, since it just randomly happened when I was installing programs when I first got this rig up and running. Games aren't unplayable with it, it's just annoying having the game looking like it's running under 30 fps when you are getting well over a 100. Plus I seem to get bad headaches if I attempt to play a game for over 30 minutes with this, It's extremely frustrating, I've scoured many the forum trying to rectify it , and nothing that's been suggested has worked. Older drivers , lowering refresh rate, trying lower resolution. One thing that was posted to me is that maybe Lowering the GPU's latency may work, although i have no idea how that would work on a PCI-E card. The 16x PCI-E input thing wouldn't matter here, the 8500GT says it is an 8X PCI-E card.

edit. Most of my parts apart from the Hard drive and Ram are second hand, neither gave any of there former owners ANY hassle, The ram is fine I would guess, So the problem may lie with Software or a program.

another edit. Alot of people don't see the problem in a video, but trust me, if you were to get it you would notice it straight away, it's also a hard problem to describe and considering how many people in this thread haven't really dealt with it before it'll be hard to know how to fix.

edit. for post below, V-sync does nothing

CPU-Z showing my memory, not sure if the dram frequency is right.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z89/Gingermadman/memory.jpg

Mussels · Nov 10, 2008

god, what a terrible download site. i'm capped at 5KB/s, and it keeps dropping out.

the problem you describe, does indeed sound like the problems found on early model LCD's with ghosting. try with V-sync off, the FPS boost may well help alleviate it a bit.

*watches video*

I see no problems at all. the compression makes the image grainy, but i cant see the effect you speak of at all.

eidairaman1 · Nov 10, 2008

sounds like something is tasking your system where the HD is thrashing a little here and there.

siapnar · Nov 10, 2008

Thanks for the posts

@phanbuey: tried that, no difference.

@Binge: no, it's not normal performance. Any game at any setting has this stuttering, but it is especially noticeable at under 45 fps. everything is stuttering, whether it be things in the foreground or not. This is not a visual phenomena.

@lemonadesoda: My mobo BIOS is the newest version. I'll download 3Dmark demo and see what results I get.
I didn't flash the GPU at all.
I've tried removing the SB X-Fi and using onboard sound. No dice. I've also tried switching slots. When the X-Fi is in, both it and my GPU have IRQ set as 16. There are no conflicts though.
Are you sure you can't see anything, because I have people who can see what I'm talking about. Not sure if you watched all the videos but take a look at the Crysis one and watch the top palm tree leaves very carefully. It looks like they skip. Times that by 10 and that's what it looks like on my machine. The videos really cannot do it justice.

@Gingermadman: glad to see I'm not alone, although I feel sorry for you because this issue sucks.
You're right it's not easy to see in the video, but ingame it's sometimes unbearable.

@Mussels: I'm using a CRT. I've already tried all graphical settings including vsync.
Look at the Crysis video carefully. The top palm leaves look like their almost ghosting but more harshly. It's like they're skipping. The game is silky smooth when I'm standing still (you can see the shadows, grass and leaves moving smoothly) and then when I pan it all goes to hell.

@eidairaman1: Is there any way to test that? What would cause this 'thrashing'?

@all: I wouldn't be going to all this trouble if it weren't a big issue for me, so please believe me when I say there is something wrong.. it's not my eyes and it's not my monitor.
I'll try to take a better video with less compression for you to see.

Fastmix · Nov 10, 2008

Have you tried updating your directx?

Or flashing the card with a different bios, there are 3 attached to my signature.

lemonadesoda · Nov 10, 2008

No kidding, I watched all 3 movies, and didnt notice anything terrible. But parhaps the lower res. format makes it hard to see. Perhaps you "see it" because you know what you are looking for and the video "confirms" the experience, but for others its difficult to see.

Just as a last ditch check

1./ Are you v-sync'ing the card. If so, turn it off.
2./ What refresh frequency is set for your monitor under windows display settings? If under DVI, use 60 and ignore any options for, e.g. 72, even though it "sounds better".
3./ Are you running your games at native resolution? Please try this, because any scaling on the TFT might introduce a problem.
4./ Make sure fraps is OFF
5./ I can only suggest you create a new OS partition for dual boot, install clean OS and drivers, then run the game off when booted to that partition. Dont install ANYTHING else on that boot partition. Then you get a 100% clean boot, without anything "attaching" itself to IRQs, drivers, directx etc. PS. No need to reinstall game, just explore to relevant drive and run .exe

lemonadesoda · Nov 10, 2008

P.S. Also, have you been to see an eye doctor? Perhaps it's not the PC after all! :roll:

Fitseries3 · Nov 10, 2008

this seems to be a widespread problem with the 4k cards. i get a similar thing with my 4870x2s.

Ati knows about it too.

until a solution is found... http://www.viddler.com/explore/Franky2/videos/2/

Darren · Nov 10, 2008

Gingermadman, the 8500 GT is not a adequate gaming card, so if you're are saying you are experiencing low frame rates and stutter all I can say that its probably 100% normal

- Seriously though go into the bios and turn on PCI Timer latency and make sure its at the "lowest" value selectable.

Siapnar, could your Hard disk drive be faulty, slow read/write performance can cause the cause games to stutter because if a large map or texture files were being read at a slow speed the game would ultimately halt.

Download HD Tach and run both the long and short test and post the findings.
http://www.simplisoftware.com/Public/index.php?request=HdTach

lemonadesoda · Nov 10, 2008

@fit, I think I bust a gut watching that! :roll:

phanbuey · Nov 10, 2008

That video should be on the front page.

Gingermadman · Nov 10, 2008

Darren said:
Gingermadman, the 8500 GT is not a adequate gaming card, so if you're are saying you are experiencing low frame rates and stutter all I can say that its probably 100% normal - Seriously though go into the bios and turn on PCI Timer latency and make sure its at the "lowest" value selectable.

Siapnar, could your Hard disk drive be faulty, slow read/write performance can cause the cause games to stutter because if a large map or texture files were being read at a slow speed the game would ultimately halt.

Download HD Tach and run both the long and short test and post the findings.
http://www.simplisoftware.com/Public/index.php?request=HdTach

It's not the card.

The only way I've found fixing this stuttering problem is...close my good eye. Then everything is silky smooth, albeit a bit blurry

And I'll probably be creating a partition for Windows, at least I'll try not too clued up on this partitiony thing yet but I'll give it a shot. And the 8500GT never stuttered for it's former owner, so i see no reason why it would give me abuse now

edit. I did some testing, I'm guessing it's either our hard drives/program. I have what can only be described as a noisy computer as when I do anything it makes an audible noise, When I was gaming there was definitely more going on than just the game, guess windows reinstall is there it's at. I'm almost positive in your case at least, it's hardware. Although until I get rid of this 8500GT theres no way of telling

siapnar · Nov 10, 2008

@lemonade: already tried everything but the dual boot. So you're saying if I create a partition with only Windows and drivers on it, I can run the games off the other partition?
My eyes are fine, thanks

@fitseries3: I tried a 7900 GT0 and still get stuttering. It's not the 4870.
Funny vid though, had me laughing.. it's already funny w/o subtitles, but damn..

@Darren: doesn't make sense for the HDD to be loading textures etc in the Fallout 3 video. All I'm doing is looking around in a basic room, so it can't be that.

@Gingermadman: not sure if we're having the exact same issue, but yeah try to partition and let me know if you eliminate the stuttering.
I'm going to try some other things before I resort to that.

What version of XP do you suggest I install? All I have is one that includes SP2...

Gingermadman · Nov 10, 2008

That's a good point, my windows disc doesn't have SP1 on it by default and had to upgrade all the way to SP3. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Edit. I forgot, my stuttering is really noticeable when i try to open doors etc. They open a little bit at a time. If in your games you notice that sorta thing then it's the same. Only games I've noticed this in are Insurgency, CS:S and TF2, although I've not really looked for doors in the other games.

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Really strange Stuttering/choppiness (videos included) - please help

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