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Why no officially rated 4GHz CPUs?

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wouldnt it just simply put other chips out of the market? and they'd loose money?
 
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Intel (and AMD) have to make chips that will work GUARANTEED in the worst possible environments: poor design or small cases, and hot countries or office environments.

There are some "spec sheets". Look at them. They have operating temperaturs/humidities.

Sure, Intel could release a "4Ghz" CPU tomorrow, but the operating environment would be very narrow and limiting, and would require a "specialist" cooling setup and case airflow. Something that WE enthusiasts do without thinking... but something that IS NOT standard in the boxes sold by most high volume discount manufacturers.

The Intel Extreme Editions are designed JUST for that purpose of OC beyond 4GHz which is why the have unlocked multipliers.

But Intel cannot guarantee WHERE and in WHAT you will put such a CPU, so they have a stock frequency and make no guarantees about how high you can OC it. But every enthusiast knows, those EE editions go like the clappers.
 
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more voltage = more heat = requirement for better stock cooling = increase in manufacturing/production costs

an increase in cost isnt what intel/amd want - especially in the current economic climate.

It'd have to be damn stable too for 24/7 use too - that's why they underrate and underclock their cpu's...
 
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well for most pc users they like to turn it on and it go at acceptable speeds hey dontt no nor care how it woks inside as long as theres no problems
 
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Intel (and AMD) have to make chips that will work GUARANTEED in the worst possible environments: poor design or small cases, and hot countries or office environments.

There are some "spec sheets". Look at them. They have operating temperaturs/humidities.

Sure, Intel could release a "4Ghz" CPU tomorrow, but the operating environment would be very narrow and limiting, and would require a "specialist" cooling setup and case airflow. Something that WE enthusiasts do without thinking... but something that IS NOT standard in the boxes sold by most high volume discount manufacturers.

The Intel Extreme Editions are designed JUST for that purpose of OC beyond 4GHz which is why the have unlocked multipliers.

But Intel cannot guarantee WHERE and in WHAT you will put such a CPU, so they have a stock frequency and make no guarantees about how high you can OC it. But every enthusiast knows, those EE editions go like the clappers.

Great post., one edit though, I would say that I wouldn't just limit it to the "Extreme Edition" CPUs. Black Edition AMDs do the same thing, and alot of the newer revision CPUs can be pushed to those limits, with a little know-how, and a few pennyies on an after market cooler most CPUs can been pushed pretty hard. My E8400 has been operating at 4.0ghz stable for about a half a year so far. Also most of these CPU's aren't designed to be pushed like it seems the E8400-8600 E0 stepping seems to handle queit easily. I personally attribute the E 8400 and it's brother cpu's creation to how shitty the Northwood cores were in comparision to the AMD64s for gaming at the time.

But like you said they have to design there products to operate in a whole range of temperatures/environments, not everyone has a 65F basement like me to keep all my equipment nice and happy temp wise.
 
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But every enthusiast knows, those EE editions go like the clappers.

I've had a pretty lame ass QX6700 before. Ran hot as hell and oc'd like it was on drugs. Not all EE chips rock. Sadly...
 
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There are no 4Ghz chips because increasing Mhz over making a better overall design is never a way to make good cpu's and as you increase the speed in Mhz performance degrades, and it becomes less and less effective

Intel tried this with the netburst cpu's and learned the hard way
 
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There are no 4Ghz chips because increasing Mhz over making a better overall design is never a way to make good cpu's and as you increase the speed in Mhz performance degrades, and it becomes less and less effective

Intel tried this with the netburst cpu's and learned the hard way

Exactly.
 

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Intel has abandonned the Gigahertz war when they stated that they will not release a 4 ghz processor (in the times of the Pentium 4). I don't think they will try to hit 4ghz, but instead they will add cores to their processors to make them more powerful. AMD is also doing this, so I wouldn't expect 4ghz from AMD either.
 

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Maybe if Intel used the P4 copper core heatsink design instead of an aluminum coffee-cup coaster they could release a 4GHz processor...
 

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Maybe if Intel used the P4 copper core heatsink design instead of an aluminum coffee-cup coaster they could release a 4GHz processor...

There wouldn't be much of a difference?
and those silicon would degrade on 4GHz
 
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All I hear is "Intel this"... "Intel that"... AMD does the exact same thing (not to mention the Performance Rating naming scheme).

The "market milking" has a good explanation and it's not related to the evil-ness of a certain company. When you release an entire lineup of products to the public, there is an expectation in the CPU industry that you cover all potential customer's needs (all the market segments, price-wise and performance-wise). You also have to be in-sync with the competing companies and release products that are comparable with theirs (so, we, the little people, can express our apparent freedom and choose what is best for us).

We are one tiny slice of a market segment. We think we need more powerfull processors then anyone else so we're constantly on the "who fries his CPU faster" competition. We also think that we are "the many" but in fact we are "the very few". So there is no point to release something that will only sell in very small quantities for very large sums of money. Money we don't have. So in fact something ultra-high-end like a $2,499.99 4.2 GHz CPU WILL NOT SELL. Especially when you can buy the lowly low-end model for $280.00...

For example, Would you buy the i7 1035 EXTREME @ 4.2 for 2,500 bucks when you can buy for the same amout of money an ultra-high end system with the i7 920 (with a nice aluminum case, TWO GTX295 SLI, high end X58 mobo, big and fast HDD's, juicy KW PSU and still have change for a nice KB+Mouse wireless combo AND A REFRESHING COKE) and OC it to 4.2 with insignificant effort? (if you say yes, you are a liar)

Why wouldn't you buy it? Because they are built on the same tech so their maximum theoretical speed is almost the same. So the 4.2 will OC to 4.6-4.8 and the 2.66 will OC to 4.6-4.8. Funny that.

Another thing is the "moral depreciation" (in my native language its a real term) of a product in time and according to the positioning in the market segment. To follow the same example, if the i7 920 will still be in the market when the 4.2 GHz part will appear, then you cannot sell it anymore for the exact same amout you're selling it now. You'll also have to many products on the market and you don't want that. Because it costs you the exact amount of money to make them, but they will have less and less market value. You see that happening all the time, Intel and AMD slash their prices for products that were on the market for a longer time. But you cannot slash prices indefinetly, so some products will go the to the EOL garbage dump.

Now imagine this process in high speed mode. This is what you are asking for. The result will be bankruptcy. For the companies and for the consumers. Because eighter you'll adapt to the rythm and ask why aren't any 10.8 GHz products on the market and you'll buy every 2-3 moths another CPU (you'll eventually sell your house to get the money for a new CPU), or you'll feel cheated because you paid an insane amount of money ($2.500) on your CPU and now (3 months later) it only costs $250 (only 90%-ish less), just like it happens when a new GPU appears that is usually two times faster then anything before it (like it will happen with the Radeon 5870 or the new nVidia GT300 MONSTER). I am the proud owner of a GTX295 and I have bad dreams about the day GT300 will be benchmarked for the first time.

Ofcourse if a new high end CPU will appear every 3 months, you won't upgrade imediately. You "wait" for the next big thing, because what you have now completely "satisfies" your needs. This is why the companies will go bankrupt. They will spend an insane amount of money on R&D and make very little money in return. It takes a long time to develop new tech, and it takes longer for that tech to pay for itself.

This post is getting too long, I will stop here :rolleyes:

I will add this simple question... Do you currently own the i7 975 EE?
 

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There wouldn't be much of a difference?
and those silicon would degrade on 4GHz

I think this


Would do a far better job than this


Basic physics says that because the cooler shown first is bigger it has more capacity to hold heat than the second cooler does. I've seen this myself in metal shop: hold a small piece of steel, maybe 4 inches by .75 inches, 5mm thick and it heats up pretty quickly red hot in half a minute... hold a quarter inch 4x4 steel square in the forge and it takes forever to get even a very faint, dull red look to it.

Looking at the design of those coolers with this basic principle in mind, they've cut the effective cooling capacity in half.
 

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It hasn't been said in this thread yet but IBM POWER6 processors are offered at 3.5-5.0 GHz.

Intel/AMD haven't offered a 4.0 GHz processor yet because they are both focusing on per clock effiency over higher clock speed. What NetBurst proved is that the faster you force electrons to move, the more unstable it becomes; that's why we haven't seen a useful 10 GHz processor yet.
 

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It hasn't been said in this thread yet but IBM POWER6 processors are offered at 3.5-5.0 GHz.

Intel/AMD haven't offered a 4.0 GHz processor yet because they are both focusing on per clock effiency over higher clock speed. What NetBurst proved is that the faster you force electrons to move, the more unstable it becomes; that's why we haven't seen a useful 10 GHz processor yet.

I would add to that, the brick wall of rising power consumption. Apparently, it goes up exponentially, which is one of the reasons that smaller fabrication processes need to be developed - we've all seen how much cooler CPUs made on smaller fabrication processes are, when run at the same clock speeds as the older process.

However, it still doesn't answer why an official 4GHz CPU hasn't been released, when current technology can do it with its eyes shut on dual core. I haven't seen any convincing answers on this thread, in fact. Seems odd to me they wouldn't, because raw clock speed capability is still rising, only much more slowly since 2003 when NetBust hit its peak.

It could easily be marketed as some Super Duper Extremely Expensive Edition or something and some chumps will buy them. Then Intel or AMD would have the prestige of the fastest-clocked processor and be able to command the price they want for their whole range of processors, just like the fight between DAAMIT & nvidia.
 

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Heat dissipation sets the upper limit to processor performance. For instance, Intel/AMD don't want to spend anymore than about $5 on an HSF which can handle, what, 130w of heat? From that 130w, you have to balance two things: clockspeed and transistor count. The more transistors you have, the more heat it produces; likewise, the higher the clockspeed, the more heat it produces. At the same time, you have to balance efficiency (operation successes compared to failures) with clockspeed and you have to balance per unit costs with transistor count (wafer value goes by real estate consumed).

IBM with POWER6, for instance, has a 160w TDP at 4.7 GHz. Instead of trading off on the above points, they decided to go with a better, more expensive cooling solution which affords them the ability to clock it higher without starting a fire. The reason why IBM could afford to do that is because POWER6 is an enterprise processor which means server rooms with dedicated cooling systems. Ehm, the clients for POWER6 can afford a little extra on cooling.
 

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You might see one from AMD fairly soon™.
 
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Recent tests on Tom's show that for a Core 2 Duo the sweet spot is 3.8 GHz, anything above 4.2 increases the power envelope by a fairly large margin.

So yes, there is a small barrier there, but it can be crossed fine-tuning the core (like ati did with the 4870 -> 4890, or like intel did with the G0 6600's).
 

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Heat dissipation sets the upper limit to processor performance. For instance, Intel/AMD don't want to spend anymore than about $5 on an HSF which can handle, what, 130w of heat? From that 130w, you have to balance two things: clockspeed and transistor count. The more transistors you have, the more heat it produces; likewise, the higher the clockspeed, the more heat it produces. At the same time, you have to balance efficiency (operation successes compared to failures) with clockspeed and you have to balance per unit costs with transistor count (wafer value goes by real estate consumed).

IBM with POWER6, for instance, has a 160w TDP at 4.7 GHz. Instead of trading off on the above points, they decided to go with a better, more expensive cooling solution which affords them the ability to clock it higher without starting a fire. The reason why IBM could afford to do that is because POWER6 is an enterprise processor which means server rooms with dedicated cooling systems. Ehm, the clients for POWER6 can afford a little extra on cooling.

That's a really good explanation, with specifics. Nice! :)
 

h3llb3nd4

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Recent tests on Tom's show that for a Core 2 Duo the sweet spot is 3.8 GHz, anything above 4.2 increases the power envelope by a fairly large margin.

So yes, there is a small barrier there, but it can be crossed fine-tuning the core (like ati did with the 4870 -> 4890, or like intel did with the G0 6600's).

Now I know How far I should take my E7400:D
 
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It would be too troublesome cherry picking everything and packing adequate coolers with it for a tiny market for them. They dont want to force their other products down as well me thinks.
 
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