Rusty chokes on Asus mobo.

newtekie1 · Jan 19, 2010

TheLostSwede said:
How would humidity cause that?
The thing would have to have been sprayed by water to accumulate that much moisture.

Not really, it only takes a small amount of moisture to cause surface rust like that. If the factory's air conditioning broke for a few hours one day, that would be enough to let the humidity get high enough(depending on where the factory is located) to cause the surface rust. Despite what it looks like, there is actually very little rust there.

TheLostSwede said:
And have you ever tried breaking a choke? The iron is hard as rock, it's not a powder any more, despite being made out of iron powder (or ferrite powder as it might be in more expensive ones).
Besides, things like this should be manufactured in a controlled environment, so suggesting that the environment where the chokes were made was too damp is just silly.

Yes, I have tried, and succeeded at breaking a open a choke. The iron powder might be hard, but is still just compressed powder, and actually breaks apart relatively easy compared to a piece of solid iron. And when it rusts, due to the rusting process, the particles that rust expand and break themselves away from the others. Which is why the rust just comes right off with the laquer and sticks to the copper.

And, as I said above, it only takes the air conditioning to go out for a few hours for the factory to get too humid. And since these are the cheaper chokes, they aren't going to stop production because of it(probably won't on the more expensive either, anyone that has ever worked in a factory would probably agree).

Mussels · Jan 19, 2010

newtekie1 said:
Despite what it looks like, there is actually very little rust there.

tiny little bit of rust in a very confined space, would blend with the water and create a rusty water solution - it'd make it look far worse than it really is (you're seeing water + rust in a film over the top of the choke, not solid rust)

qubit · Jan 19, 2010

Rusty chokes on Asus mobo: part 2

The article states that the copper coil is "rusty", but notes that copper can't rust.

WE’VE HAD SOME criticism on our original story about the rusty chokes on certain Asus motherboards that got pointed out to us, so we decided to do a follow up. This time around we’ve done what many of the comments around the web have asked for, we cracked one of the chokes open to see what it looks like on the inside.

Many of those that read the story noted that the rust only seemed to be superficial and we agree that it was hard to tell where it came from, in part due to the clear coating on the chokes. We had one of the chokes from one of the 12-phase boards de-soldered as you can see on the picture below. The chokes are clearly labelled C.S and from what we’ve been told, this is a brand exclusively used by Asus on some of its motherboards.

It's not clear how much this will affect performance over time and it looks like the problem may not be as bad as it seemed at first. Many more pictures over at SemiAccurate.

SemiAccurate

erocker · Jan 19, 2010

A new thread on the same subject isn't necessary. It has been merged with the original thread.

That indeed looks like some sort of corrosion.

qubit · Jan 19, 2010

erocker said:
A new thread on the same subject isn't necessary. It has been merged with the original thread.

That indeed looks like some sort of corrosion.

Did you merge it once already? I got into a terrible editing muddle before trying to make links between the threads and ended up deleting the post of part 2 and the thread link had become invalid before I deleted it. :confused:

I had simply made a new thread so people would realise more clearly that there was a part 2 to this, but hey, no problem.

imperialreign · Jan 19, 2010

erocker said:
That indeed looks like some sort of corrosion.

IDK - that looks like a solid-state unit, in which case, the "dust" on the core qould simply be remnant of the filling material.

I don't see any discoloration or tarnish of the actual copper, so I would say that there's nothing wrong with the core itself, nor would it be in danger of failing anytime soon. But, can't see the internals of the core, though.

Deleted member 67555 · Jan 20, 2010

imperialreign said:
IDK - that looks like a solid-state unit, in which case, the "dust" on the core qould simply be remnant of the filling material.

I don't see any discoloration or tarnish of the actual copper, so I would say that there's nothing wrong with the core itself, nor would it be in danger of failing anytime soon. But, can't see the internals of the core, though.

I think simply the mass of the materials create the function of the product....

So most likely it just looks ugly

Wile E · Jan 20, 2010

The copper isn't even oxidizing. Just as a I thought from the beginning, it's superficial, and nothing but an aesthetic problem. Mountain out of a molehill.

[H]@RD5TUFF · Jan 20, 2010

qubit said:
http://www.semiaccurate.com/static/uploads/2010/01_january/12p_chokes_WM.jpg

These chokes should look silver coloured.

Seems Asus has been a bit naughty with their quality control here. The best bit is that instead of pulling these mobos off the market, they are just dumping them at a lower price. Avoid at all costs.

I use Gigabyte Ultradurable mobos myself.

SemiAccurate

EDIT: There's now a part 2 to this article.

This seems like little more than a hit piece on ASUS, no company is without QC, or design problems. An example of this is Mercedes Benz, they spend 10's of millions of dollars each year on QC and over engienering their cars, and they still have problems, I can personally attest to this fact as my Merc's engine block cracked after a mere 11k miles. There are 1,000's of individual pieces in computers as in cars and any one of them can cause problems.

So Meh.

H82LUZ73 · Jan 20, 2010

qubit said:
http://www.semiaccurate.com/static/uploads/2010/01_january/split_choke_5.jpg

The article states that the copper coil is "rusty", but notes that copper can't rust.

It's not clear how much this will affect performance over time and it looks like the problem may not be as bad as it seemed at first. Many more pictures over at SemiAccurate.

SemiAccurate

that copper was not exposed to moister some how,Copper turns like that if water gets on it,Then it turns green like a bad engagement ring.Maybe two things with this
1,the company supplying ASUS is hiring some bad untrained workers.
2,Some containment in the lacquer itself.

I don`t think ASUS is to be blamed they make boards not chokes.for all we know the choke`s look normal during the manufacturing and they rust or discolor after shipment.

TheMailMan78 · Jan 20, 2010

Wile E said:
The copper isn't even oxidizing. Just as a I thought from the beginning, it's superficial, and nothing but an aesthetic problem. Mountain out of a molehill.

Welcome to the interwebz.

dr emulator (madmax) · Jan 20, 2010

Wile E said:
The copper isn't even oxidizing. Just as a I thought from the beginning, it's superficial, and nothing but an aesthetic problem. Mountain out of a molehill.

i agree and has everyone voted in this poll :laugh:

Flyordie · Jan 20, 2010

If I was ASUS, I still wouldn't let those boards out in the "public"... maybe revert them to other things like the OEM market...

Other than that, besides aesthetics... it not a real big issue. The question SA is trying to ask is this-
Would you yourself put this in your rig if you bought that board w/o knowing this was a problem and you actually wanted that board?

Wile E · Jan 20, 2010

Flyordie said:
If I was ASUS, I still wouldn't let those boards out in the "public"... maybe revert them to other things like the OEM market...

Other than that, besides aesthetics... it not a real big issue. The question SA is trying to ask is this-
Would you yourself put this in your rig if you bought that board w/o knowing this was a problem and you actually wanted that board?

If it was cheaper with a full warranty, then yes.

erocker · Jan 20, 2010

After looking closer at the 2nd article there is no issue. If there is, it's cosmetic at best. SemiAccurate is reaching for an audience yet again.

[H]@RD5TUFF · Jan 20, 2010

erocker said:
After looking closer at the 2nd article there is no issue. If there is, it's cosmetic at best. SemiAccurate is reaching for an audience yet again.

Reaching is for sure, and the OP was dumb enough to take the bait, they loose more and more creditability every day, articels making unsubstantiated claims, using 1 flaw as an example and claiming it to be the norm. The only reason to read semiaccurate, is for a good example of how not to write tech articals.

r@5put1n · Jan 27, 2010

just found some update about these rusty chokes:

" ...potentially serious issue with certain Asustek Computer motherboards that could leave customers seeing their boards fail sooner than expected, and may even cause damage to other system components such as the CPU. ....

damaged or degraded chokes are unable to retain their charge which forces the MOSFETs to open more frequently. This causes the system to draw more power, reducing the overall efficiency of the motherboard while producing more heat, and increases the workload of other components – the MOSFETs, capacitors, and PSU – which over time could eventually lead to these parts failing also.
The result is a dead motherboard or PSU, and if the user is unlucky, whatever component lies beyond the capacitors, usually the CPU, could also get damaged.

High-quality chokes are made from ferrite, which doesn't rust, while motherboard makers may use cheaper chokes made from iron in their low-end and mid-range boards to reduce costs. This suggests that owners of Asustek's high-end boards aren't likely to be affected by this issue, but that still leaves the cheaper (i.e. the high-volume) segments potentially exposed, meaning Asustek could face a large number of RMA cases down the road."

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100122VL201.html

Wile E · Jan 27, 2010

r@5put1n said:
just found some update about these rusty chokes:

" ...potentially serious issue with certain Asustek Computer motherboards that could leave customers seeing their boards fail sooner than expected, and may even cause damage to other system components such as the CPU. ....

damaged or degraded chokes are unable to retain their charge which forces the MOSFETs to open more frequently. This causes the system to draw more power, reducing the overall efficiency of the motherboard while producing more heat, and increases the workload of other components – the MOSFETs, capacitors, and PSU – which over time could eventually lead to these parts failing also.
The result is a dead motherboard or PSU, and if the user is unlucky, whatever component lies beyond the capacitors, usually the CPU, could also get damaged.

High-quality chokes are made from ferrite, which doesn't rust, while motherboard makers may use cheaper chokes made from iron in their low-end and mid-range boards to reduce costs. This suggests that owners of Asustek's high-end boards aren't likely to be affected by this issue, but that still leaves the cheaper (i.e. the high-volume) segments potentially exposed, meaning Asustek could face a large number of RMA cases down the road."

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100122VL201.html

They're full of it. It's cosmetic.

pantherx12 · Jan 27, 2010

Flyordie said:
If I was ASUS, I still wouldn't let those boards out in the "public"... maybe revert them to other things like the OEM market...

Other than that, besides aesthetics... it not a real big issue. The question SA is trying to ask is this-
Would you yourself put this in your rig if you bought that board w/o knowing this was a problem and you actually wanted that board?

Hell yeah, if it breaks it has a warranty anyway :laugh:

imperialreign · Jan 27, 2010

r@5put1n said:
damaged or degraded chokes are unable to retain their charge which forces the MOSFETs to open more frequently. This causes the system to draw more power, reducing the overall efficiency of the motherboard while producing more heat, and increases the workload of other components – the MOSFETs, capacitors, and PSU – which over time could eventually lead to these parts failing also.
The result is a dead motherboard or PSU, and if the user is unlucky, whatever component lies beyond the capacitors, usually the CPU, could also get damaged.

I completely agree . . . except that in this case, we're not talking about damaged or degraded choke internals - simply the outer casing, which does not affect how the choke will operate at all.

As has been pointed out, this is a cosmetic concern.

Mussels · Jan 27, 2010

imperialreign said:
I completely agree . . . except that in this case, we're not talking about damaged or degraded choke internals - simply the outer casing, which does not affect how the choke will operate at all.

As has been pointed out, this is a cosmetic concern.

perfectly summarized.

[H]@RD5TUFF · Jan 27, 2010

Mussels said:
perfectly summarized.

Can we have this thread deleted as it seems to be little more than troll bate.

qubit · Jan 27, 2010

[H]@RD5TUFF said:
Reaching is for sure, and the OP was dumb enough to take the bait...

[H]@RD5TUFF said:
Can we have this thread deleted as it seems to be little more than troll bate.

I'm not dumb and you need to stop being so rude, thanks. :rolleyes:

If anyone is trolling now, it's you.

You do not make requests for threads to be deleted, especially not ones like this where a helpful poster like me is reporting a genuine motherboard defect to help people avoid buying a dud, ok?

If you read the SA articles properly, you'll see that SA reported an understandable concern over corroded/rusted chokes. To any reasonable person this indicates damage and likely failure and should be concerned. When they took the choke apart in the second article, they themselves said the problem doesn't look as bad as initially thought. I suggest your read both articles again with a little more objectivity.

Other sites reported this problem, too.

So, tell me, how are SA "reaching" here?

erocker · Jan 27, 2010

Final warning. Stop pointing out one another in this discussion or the thread will be closed. If you cannot have a civilized discussion on the matter this thread will be closed. Any more reported posts on this thread and it will be closed. Everyone has a right to their opinion. You do not have a right on this forum to make your opinions known about another member that is hurtful in any way. Issue over. Resume on topic discussion.

phanbuey · Jan 28, 2010

Someone needs to give rusty the Heimlich before he chokes on that asus mobo.

Processor	Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard	AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling	Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory	32GB DDR4-3600
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Software	Windows 10 Pro x64

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
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Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
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Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

System Name	Quantumville™
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Memory	16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB \| WD Black 4TB \| WD Blue 6TB
Display(s)	ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) \| Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
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Audio Device(s)	Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply	Corsair AX1600i
Mouse	Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard	Yes
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASUS TUF x670e
Cooling	EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory	32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s)	Asus RTX 4090
Storage	WD m.2
Display(s)	LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case	Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s)	Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Headphone Amp.
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse	Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard	Tester84
Software	Windows 11

System Name	Quantumville™
Processor	Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard	Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling	Noctua NH-D14
Memory	16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB \| WD Black 4TB \| WD Blue 6TB
Display(s)	ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) \| Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case	Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s)	Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply	Corsair AX1600i
Mouse	Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard	Yes
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	УльтраФиолет
Processor	Intel Kentsfield Q9650 @ 3.8GHz (4.2GHz highest achieved)
Motherboard	ASUS P5E3 Deluxe/WiFi; X38 NSB, ICH9R SSB
Cooling	Delta V3 block, XPSC res, 120x3 rad, ST 1/2" pump - 10 fans, SYSTRIN HDD cooler, Antec HDD cooler
Memory	Dual channel 8GB OCZ Platinum DDR3 @ 1800MHz @ 7-7-7-20 1T
Video Card(s)	Quadfire: (2) Sapphire HD5970
Storage	(2) WD VelociRaptor 300GB SATA-300; WD 320GB SATA-300; WD 200GB UATA + WD 160GB UATA
Display(s)	Samsung Syncmaster T240 24" (16:10)
Case	Cooler Master Stacker 830
Audio Device(s)	Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro PCI-E x1
Power Supply	Kingwin Mach1 1200W modular
Software	Windows XP Home SP3; Vista Ultimate x64 SP2
Benchmark Scores	3m06: 20270 here: http://hwbot.org/user.do?userId=12313

System Name	The ClusterF**k
Processor	980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling	MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory	3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s)	Evga GTX 580
Storage	Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s)	HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case	Technofront Bench Station
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Power Supply	ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software	Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4

System Name	White Boy
Processor	Core i7 3770k @4.6 Ghz
Motherboard	ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe
Cooling	CORSAIR H100
Memory	CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB @ 2177
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTX 680 CLASSIEFIED @ 1250 Core
Storage	2 Samsung 830 256 GB (Raid 0) 1 Hitachi 4 TB
Display(s)	1 Dell 30U11 30"
Case	BIT FENIX Prodigy
Audio Device(s)	none
Power Supply	SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W Modular
Software	Windows Pro 7 64 bit \|\| Ubuntu 64 Bit
Benchmark Scores	2017 Unigine Heaven :: P37239 3D Mark Vantage

System Name	RyZen FX
Processor	AMD Ryzen 9 5900x
Motherboard	Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite AX V2
Cooling	DeepCool AK400 Zero Dark Plus
Memory	Corsair CMK32GX4M2E3200C16 X2 32gig dual channel
Video Card(s)	ASUS RX 7700XT TUF OC
Storage	x2 Lexar SSD NM710 2TB 2XSeagate 1Terrabyte 1x Seagate 2 Terrabyte
Display(s)	40 Inch Samsung HDTV (monitor)
Case	HAF-X:)
Audio Device(s)	AMD/HDMI to Onkyo HT-R508 Receiver
Power Supply	EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G2 Power Supply
Software	Windows 10 Pro X64

System Name	TheMailbox 5.0 / The Mailbox 4.5
Processor	RYZEN 1700X / Intel i7 2600k @ 4.2GHz
Motherboard	Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 / Gigabyte Z77X-UP5 TH Intel LGA 1155
Cooling	MasterLiquid PRO 280 / Scythe Katana 4
Memory	ADATA RGB 16GB DDR4 2666 16-16-16-39 / G.SKILL Sniper Series 16GB DDR3 1866: 9-9-9-24
Video Card(s)	MSI 1080 "Duke" with 8Gb of RAM. Boost Clock 1847 MHz / ASUS 780ti
Storage	256Gb M4 SSD / 128Gb Agelity 4 SSD , 500Gb WD (7200)
Display(s)	LG 29" Class 21:9 UltraWide® IPS LED Monitor 2560 x 1080 / Dell 27"
Case	Cooler Master MASTERBOX 5t / Cooler Master 922 HAF
Audio Device(s)	Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec / SupremeFX X-Fi with Bose Companion 2 speakers.
Power Supply	Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-750PX 750W Platinum / SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold
Mouse	SteelSeries Sensei (RAW) / Logitech G5
Keyboard	Razer BlackWidow / Logitech (Unknown)
Software	Windows 10 Pro (64-bit)
Benchmark Scores	Benching is for bitches.

System Name	not very good (wants throwing out window most of time)
Processor	xp3000@ 2.17ghz pile of sh** /i7 920 DO on air for now
Motherboard	msi kt6 delta oap /gigabyte x58 ud7 (rev1.0)
Cooling	1 green akasa 8cm(rear) 1 multicoloured akasa(hd) 1 12 cm (intake) 1 9cm with circuit from old psu
Memory	1.25 gb kingston hyperx @333mhz/ 3gb corsair dominator xmp 1600mhz
Video Card(s)	(agp) hd3850 not bad not really suitable for mobo n processor/ gb hd5870
Storage	wd 320gb + samsung 320 gig + wd 1tb 6gb/s
Display(s)	compaq mv720
Case	thermaltake XaserIII skull / coolermaster cm 690II
Audio Device(s)	onboard
Power Supply	corsair hx 650 w which solved many problems (blew up) /850w corsair
Software	xp pro sp3/ ? win 7 ultimate (32 bit)
Benchmark Scores	6543 3d mark05 ye ye not good but look at the processor /uknown as still not benched

System Name	Budget AMD System
Processor	Threadripper 1900X @ 4.1Ghz (100x41 @ 1.3250V)
Motherboard	Gigabyte X399 Aorus Gaming 7
Cooling	EKWB X399 Monoblock
Memory	4x8GB GSkill TridentZ RGB 14-14-14-32 CR1 @ 3266
Video Card(s)	XFX Radeon RX Vega₆⁴ Liquid @ 1,800Mhz Core, 1025Mhz HBM2
Storage	1x ADATA SX8200 NVMe, 1x Segate 2.5" FireCuda 2TB SATA, 1x 500GB HGST SATA
Display(s)	Vizio 22" 1080p 60hz TV (Samsung Panel)
Case	Corsair 570X
Audio Device(s)	Onboard
Power Supply	Seasonic X Series 850W KM3
Software	Windows 10 Pro x64

System Name	My pc
Processor	Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard	Asus Rog b450-f
Cooling	Cooler master 120mm aio
Memory	16gb ddr4 3200mhz
Video Card(s)	MSI Ventus 3x 3070
Storage	2tb intel nvme and 2tb generic ssd
Display(s)	Generic dell 1080p overclocked to 75hz
Case	Phanteks enthoo
Power Supply	650w of borderline fire hazard
Mouse	Some wierd Chinese vertical mouse
Keyboard	Generic mechanical keyboard
Software	Windows ten

Processor	13700KF Undervolted @ 5.6/ 5.5, 4.8Ghz Ring 200W PL1
Motherboard	MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling	Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 w/ Arctic P12 Fans
Memory	48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 FE
Storage	2x 2TB WDC SN850, 1TB Samsung 960 prr
Display(s)	Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case	SLIGER S620
Audio Device(s)	Yes
Power Supply	Corsair SF750
Mouse	Xlite V2
Keyboard	RoyalAxe
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

Rusty chokes on Asus mobo.

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