Power Supply Dilemma

wtf8269 · Nov 7, 2007

For my next system I'm planning on running one of the new Intel quad cores coming out in January, 8gb DDR2, 3x 74gb Raptors, 4x 160gb perpendicular recording Seagates, DVD-RW, either Crossfire 3870's or SLI 9800's, and probably a half dozen fans.

My first thought for a power supply was the PCP&C 750w, but further research showed that this would not have enough power. So I started to look at the 1kw and 1.2kw versions of the PCP&C, but people were saying that these were crazy loud. Does anybody have either one of these PSUs and can give me an idea of how loud they really are?

I began to search for a quieter PSU with similar specifications, and after some more research it seems that the Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w is probably the best option for a quiet, powerful power supply.

I really like that the PCP&C PSUs have a single 12v rail, and I'd much rather have that than the four 12v rails that the Thermaltake has. IMO the PCP&C were designed for pure, strong power, but as a result of that not as much engineering has gone into making the PSU a quiet one. As mentioned I don't want a loud power supply, this makes me lean toward the Thermaltake. So does anybody have either of these power supplies and can give an opinion on it?

panchoman · Nov 7, 2007

rails are just a safty feature, which allow the use of lower rated wires. with single rails, you have higher rated wires, higher price. so rails aren't really a big factor, what is a factor is wattage and amperage and quality.

fan noise is based on the amount of heat, and the amount of heat is based on the amount of load. if you load a 500W psu with 450W, its going to run hot because its very loaded and when it runs hot, it will get loud in order to cool itself. but when you pull 450W on 1000W psu, the psu wont be very loaded and thus not as hot. so in conclusion, the heat will depend on the quality of the psu and the load on it. i believe pcp&c when they say that a read mounted 80mm fan will outperform a bottom mounted 120mm fan because the 80mm fan can cool surface componenets. you can compare psus to computers, when you want to cool your computer, you mount your fans so that they cool the surface components(like the 80mms) and not the back of the mobo(120mm). a light to moderate loaded quality psu with a read mounted 80mm fan will do you good. pcp&c psus use the rear mounted fans and of very very good quality, highly recommend them.

Batou1986 · Nov 7, 2007

panchoman said:
rails are just a safty feature, which allow the use of lower rated wires. with single rails, you have higher rated wires, higher price. so rails aren't really a big factor, what is a factor is wattage and amperage and quality.

one thing you may have overlooked is how rails split up the amperage in the psu so if you have a 2 rail 50 amp psu thats only 20 amps per rail now say you have a draw on one rail of 36A and maybe 10A on the second rail the psu can not share the unused amps on the second rail now you see why multi rail psu's fail and are cheaper. therefore whatever your source for the quoted text above it is just plain wrong.

now with that said, to answer your dilemma i would seriously look into a silverstone psu if your going to spend 1000's of dollars on your hardware why would you want to run it all on a cheap psu

if you really think you need 1000w/80A +12v you can go for this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256010
modular- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256020

id venture to say 800w/66A +12v would suit you fine
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256034
modular- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256022

i can speak on quality of these psu's they are whisper quiet put out very little heat
and are rock solid not to mention heavy as a rock only bad things are they are large and the sleeving on the wires could be better but its acceptable
all silverstone models come in 2 forms also modular and hard wired for your prefrence

panchoman · Nov 7, 2007

the amperage on rails is capped off to prevent wire overloading, while the amperage cannot be rerouted to other rails, the other components in a system help to reroute the voltage. for example, a high wattage device such as video cards do not feed from one rail. they feed from multiple rails because they receive power from both the 6/8 pin power pci e cables and as well as the pci bus, which reroutes power from another rail to the video card via the 24pin power cable. however, the multi rails is simply a safty feature that allows for lower rated wires to be used, which keeps the price of the psu down. there are very very few true multi rails psu's there. a true multi rail psu uses 2 transformers, where as in most psu's use a single transformer and are divided into sections/wires/rails. these can be bridged together to form a single rail psu. the only reason why i would recommend single rail 100% is for running devices such as compressors or the like because compressors eat from one wire/one rail and the power demands cannot be rerouted.

also the silverstone psu that you linked contains incorrect information about amps and wattages. if it can do 1000w at STP, and it says that it can do 200W on the 3v/5v rail, that means that it can only do 800W on the 12v rail(s). By using the formula Wattage= Amperage * Voltage, i was able to calculate that psu can do a max of 66.6 repeating amps on the 12v rail. psu labels are extremely misleading and usualy there are always inaccruacies.

Batou1986 · Nov 7, 2007

thats all well and good but this still don't help him pick out a psu since you seem to know so much what would you recommend silverstone makes a psu that is on par with pcp&c and there alot easier to find

panchoman · Nov 7, 2007

err lol.. http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=39758 ... under major construction that's been backlogged

in part I it's got some basic info that should help.

i would say grabbing the pcp&c psus, or the thermaltake ones that he has mentioned are very good. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703007 - awesome psu manufactured by seasonic that comes with a 7 year warranty.

1kw @ 50C is very good. couldn't read the label, but i pulled up the ul certifications for pcp&c, http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073787374&sequence=1
the second one is the psu i linked to. imma try and find a label for it.

keakar · Nov 8, 2007

i think this should be just what you are looking for: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814002

ABS Tagan ITZ Series ITZ1100 ATX12V / EPS12V 1100W Power Supply $270

plus you get this free if you buy it before the 15th:
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Get this free w/ ABS power supply combo, ends 11/15

panchoman · Nov 8, 2007

keakar said:
i think this should be just what you are looking for: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814002

ABS Tagan ITZ Series ITZ1100 ATX12V / EPS12V 1100W Power Supply $270

me likely, 80amps on 12v, which is a lot, and will serve him faithfully for a very long time. just ran that ul number by the directory, come up with tagan as the oem.

cdawall · Nov 8, 2007

the Tt 1200watts are great PSUs that would probably be your best choice IMHO

Widjaja · Nov 8, 2007

I think the PSU you require is a bit tough for most of us users to guage without just saying go for the monster PSU.

But at the end of the day I think your'e on the right track with the kind of setup your'e looking at purchasing.

Hope you get the rig.
It will be a killer system for a few years.

panchoman · Nov 8, 2007

cdawall said:
the Tt 1200watts are great PSUs that would probably be your best choice IMHO

great psu's? yes do i recommend them? yes the best choice? probably not

cdawall · Nov 8, 2007

why not they can handle what he is trying to throw at it just fine? and they tend to be the oc'rs choice when you look at the extreme runs done on XS the majority use either these Tt or the silverstones since they are adjustable

panchoman · Nov 8, 2007

i prefer my seasonic oem psus

SupperAssBASS · Nov 8, 2007

Hmmmmmmmm, i'm running my system, with 300W DTK PSU!!!
So, a 750W would probably be enough for you...

wtf8269 · Nov 8, 2007

The reason I'm no longer considering a 750w is because I have read of people running SLI with quad core Intels and several hard drives having their 750w PCP&C's fail on them. And beyond that I'm trying to build a fairly future-proof system for the next few years, so the PSU should be just as future proof as the rest of the system.

After reading these posts sounds like the 1kw PCP&C is still on the list and the Silverstone 1kw is taking the place of the 1.2kw Thermaltake.

cdawall · Nov 8, 2007

the silverstone 1kw is a great psu from what i have read

panchoman · Nov 8, 2007

wtf8269 said:
The reason I'm no longer considering a 750w is because I have read of people running SLI with quad core Intels and several hard drives having their 750w PCP&C's fail on them. And beyond that I'm trying to build a fairly future-proof system for the next few years, so the PSU should be just as future proof as the rest of the system.

After reading these posts sounds like the 1kw PCP&C is still on the list and the Silverstone 1kw is taking the place of the 1.2kw Thermaltake.

i would go pcp&c cause of the 7 year warranty and the fact that its built by seasonic, which makes really really good quality psu's

wtf8269 · Nov 8, 2007

Yup I'm thinking the 1kw PCP&C now. Xoxide has it for $409. Wonder if I can find it any cheaper.

panchoman · Nov 8, 2007

shopzilla.com, pricewatch.com

wtf8269 · Nov 8, 2007

Yup I had already tried both, they just come up with Newegg.

panchoman · Nov 8, 2007

well i guess xoxide is where you going to have to go for prices cheaper then newegg.

magibeg · Nov 8, 2007

You're really going to have to wait before you can choose a power supply for the system you plan on building... we don't even know the draw on the new quads or the next gen high-end video cards.

On a side note PSU's are still wayyyyyyy overrated when it comes to the number of watts you need. Realistically that 750watt should be enough for you. Heres a little something i posted earlier about the math behind how powerful a PSU you would need. Using a 500 watt psu as a base.

Take a 500 watt psu,
Factor in roughly the efficiency level (500 x .8 = 400)
Then factor in a fairly high capacitor aging rate of 25% loss (400 x .75 = 300)
And you get 300 watts that i would actually trust the psu with for the long term. (keeping in mind i think there would be very few systems that actually pull that much power anyway!)

So a 500 watt psu can run a computer drawing 300 watts with fair ease, and i doubt that the computer you picked out would draw more than 500 watts so a 750 watt psu would probably be fine.

tkpenalty · Nov 8, 2007

panchoman said:
great psu's? yes do i recommend them? yes the best choice? probably not

Um... I dont know what you are on about pancho, but you are just endlessly raving on about different PSUs. Thermaltake's PSUs are by far high end. I wouldn't have anything to criticise about them (apart from the fact that the 1200W model is a bit longer).

Yeah and no offense, but that post went nowhere! Please avoid the spamming.

wtf8269, As far as I know, the 3870s wont use much power, and I doubt the 9800s as well. Yes you will be using HEAPS of HDDs, but I would choose the solution that offers the most bang for buck. If I was you I would go with the TT Toughpower 1200W. There is no problem with that unit, it handles everything you throw at it so thus, I'd purchase it, just be warned, its EXTREMELY heavy!

However, just to remind you, there is an alternative to this... The P190! Two PSUs that are capable of a 100% of the time output of 1200W, as well as shitloads of space and cooling + Cable management features and sound deadening. It will be cheaper to buy this case than a High end PSU + High end case. More value for money I guess! DONT underestimate those PSUs also, they are manufactured by seasonic, by far one of the best PSU manufacturers out there!

Namslas90 · Nov 8, 2007

tkpenalty said:
... Thermaltake's PSUs are by far high end...!

Thermaltake PSU's "High End" I don't think so. They are "Re-badged" Seasonics.

tkpenalty said:
... DONT underestimate those PSUs also, they are manufactured by seasonic, by far one of the best PSU manufacturers out there!

Yes Seasonic is a good brand PSU....But, what do you think they do with the PSU's that don't "Make the Grade"?

Easy answer, they sell them to Thermaltake...so the Seasonic name is not on them when sold.

Lots of companys do this in order to make money off a product they manufactured without causing harm to their name brand, when the product doesn't meet their own spec requirements. No matter how hard you try, not all manufactured products are going to come out to spec, you stay in business by finding a market for the product, and save your name by not having it on the product when sold.

:toast:

BullGod · Nov 9, 2007

Well in my opinion anything more than 800W is overkill. The new quad-core cpus as I've seen so far in a review or two are much more power eficient than these ones.You could buy this beast.

http://tw.giga-byte.com/Products/Po....aspx?ProductID=2490&ProductName=ODIN GT_800W

It has some software that lets you tune the power output and also measure temperatures and wattage. So you most certainly could use this as it is one of the queyetest in it's range and also allows fan control to make it even more queyet...

System Name	Onus
Processor	E8500 @ 3.95ghz ~1.25v
Motherboard	ASUS P5E Deluxe
Cooling	Scythe Orochi cpu, 5x 120mm Zalman red LED case fans, stock GPU coolers
Memory	8gb (4x2gb) G.Skill PC8000 5-5-5-15
Video Card(s)	2x ASUS 3870x2s
Storage	4x160gb RAID 0 Main, 2x 500gb RAID 0 media storage.
Display(s)	LG W2600H
Case	Lian Li PC-A70B, painted black and other modded aspects :)
Audio Device(s)	HT Omega Striker. Klipsch RF-3II fronts, Yamaha NS-A222 rears, Klipsch RC-3II center, Klipsch SUB12
Power Supply	Corsair CMPSU-750TX
Software	Windows 7 Ultimate x64, lots of games, photoshop n stuff.

Processor	Amd Athlon X2 4600+ Windsor(90nm) EE(65W) @2.9-3.0 @1.45
Motherboard	Biostar Tforce [Nvidia] 550
Cooling	Thermaltake Blue Orb-- bunch of other fans here and there....
Memory	2 gigs (2x1gb) of patriot ddr2 800 @ 4-4-4-12-2t
Video Card(s)	Sapphire X1950pro Pci-E x16 @stock@stock on stock
Storage	Seagate 7200.11 250gb Drive, WD raptors (30/40) in Raid 0
Display(s)	ANCIENT 15" sony lcd, bought it when it was like 500 bucks
Case	Apevia X-plorer blue/black
Audio Device(s)	Onboard- Why get an sound card when you can hum??
Power Supply	Antec NeoHe 550-manufactured by seasonic -replacement to the discontinued smart power series
Software	Windows XP pro SP2 -- vista is still crap

Processor	Ryzen 5900X
Motherboard	ASUS Prime X470 Pro
Cooling	Arctic liquid freezer II 240
Memory	2 x 16 Gb Gskill Trident Z 3600 Mhz
Video Card(s)	MSI Ventus 3060 Ti OC
Storage	Samsung 960 EVO 500 Gb / 860 EVO 1 Tb
Display(s)	Dell S2719DGF
Case	Lian Li Lancool II Mesh
Audio Device(s)	Soundblaster Z
Power Supply	Corsair RM850x
Mouse	Logitech G703
Keyboard	Logitech G513
Software	Win 11

Processor	Amd Athlon X2 4600+ Windsor(90nm) EE(65W) @2.9-3.0 @1.45
Motherboard	Biostar Tforce [Nvidia] 550
Cooling	Thermaltake Blue Orb-- bunch of other fans here and there....
Memory	2 gigs (2x1gb) of patriot ddr2 800 @ 4-4-4-12-2t
Video Card(s)	Sapphire X1950pro Pci-E x16 @stock@stock on stock
Storage	Seagate 7200.11 250gb Drive, WD raptors (30/40) in Raid 0
Display(s)	ANCIENT 15" sony lcd, bought it when it was like 500 bucks
Case	Apevia X-plorer blue/black
Audio Device(s)	Onboard- Why get an sound card when you can hum??
Power Supply	Antec NeoHe 550-manufactured by seasonic -replacement to the discontinued smart power series
Software	Windows XP pro SP2 -- vista is still crap

Processor	Ryzen 5900X
Motherboard	ASUS Prime X470 Pro
Cooling	Arctic liquid freezer II 240
Memory	2 x 16 Gb Gskill Trident Z 3600 Mhz
Video Card(s)	MSI Ventus 3060 Ti OC
Storage	Samsung 960 EVO 500 Gb / 860 EVO 1 Tb
Display(s)	Dell S2719DGF
Case	Lian Li Lancool II Mesh
Audio Device(s)	Soundblaster Z
Power Supply	Corsair RM850x
Mouse	Logitech G703
Keyboard	Logitech G513
Software	Win 11

Processor	Intel Core i7-4790 Haswell Quad-Core 3.6GHz LGA 1150 84W
Motherboard	GIGABYTE GA-H87-D3H LGA 1150 Intel H87 HDMI
Cooling	CPU - Cooler Master Hyper T4 / Case - cooler master 120mm rear case fan (Air cooling)
Memory	32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Video Card(s)	GTX1060 6GB
Storage	Samsung 512 GB 840 PRO SSD Main Drive and Samsung 512 GB 840 EVO SSD Backup Drive
Display(s)	ASUS 23" LED Monitor
Case	COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 (silver & black)
Audio Device(s)	(onboard audio) Realtek ALC892
Power Supply	CORSAIR SU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V
Software	Windows 10 Home Premium 64bit Edition

System Name	All the cores
Processor	2990WX
Motherboard	Asrock X399M
Cooling	CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory	4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s)	(2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage	2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s)	Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case	Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s)	Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse	Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard	Keychron K8
Software	W10P

System Name	Darth Obsidious
Processor	Intel i5 2500K
Motherboard	ASUS P8Z68-V/Gen3
Cooling	Cooler Master Hyper 212+ in Push Pull
Memory	2X4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600
Video Card(s)	ASUS R9 270x TOP
Storage	128GB Samsung 830 SSD, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Green
Display(s)	LG IPS234V-PN
Case	Corsair Obsidian 650D
Audio Device(s)	Infrasonic Quartet
Power Supply	Corsair HX650w
Software	Windows 7 64bit and Windows XP Home
Benchmark Scores	2cm mark on bench with a razor blade.

Processor	Q6600@3.2 1.3v
Motherboard	Asus P5K
Cooling	Scythe Mugen 2
Memory	2x2GB Kingston HyperX 1066Mhz
Video Card(s)	Palit 4850 Sonic 1GB
Storage	640GB WD Blue + 1TB WD Green
Display(s)	SAMSUNG 21" 1100p+ CRT :-D
Case	Custom with 5 fans
Audio Device(s)	Onboard
Power Supply	Chieftech 450W
Software	...

System Name	Not named
Processor	Intel 8700k @ 5Ghz
Motherboard	Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E Gaming
Cooling	DeepCool Assassin II
Memory	16GB DDR4 Corsair LPX 3000mhz CL15
Video Card(s)	Zotac 1080 Ti AMP EXTREME
Storage	Samsung 960 PRO 512GB
Display(s)	24" Dell IPS 1920x1200
Case	Fractal Design R5
Power Supply	Corsair AX760 Watt Fully Modular

Power Supply Dilemma

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