Via C7-M vs. Intel Atom vs. Pentium M Dothan

Error 404 · Jun 2, 2008

Lately, there's been the craze of the Subnotebooks, or Netbooks.
The Asus EEE, the MSI Wind, the HP 2133, the Cloudbook... the list goes on!
So, under the hood is usually these CPUs:
VIA C7-M @ 1.6 or 1.2 GHz (HP 2133)
Intel Atom @ 1.66 GHz (MSI Wind)
ULV Pentium M Dothan @ 900 MHz (Asus EEE)

Which of these CPU's is fastest? Which gives more performance per watt?
I'd like to know, because I'm probably going to end up buying one of those subnotebooks, and I'm sure there's a fair bit of confusion over the architecture of each CPU.
So, who knows some benchmarks for these, or specs?

Morgoth · Jun 2, 2008

I know that Intel atom uses Hyperthreading so its 2 threads per core

lemonadesoda · Jun 2, 2008

The Intel Atom is a lot faster than the C7.

The new VIA Isaiah is about the same speed as the Atom. I've seen DIFFERENT results on early benchmarks, so we'll have to see which is really the better CPU with regard to memory managment, FPU, multitasking, encoding, etc.

The Intel Atom is about the same as the dothan at the same clocks. So a 1.6 Atom is therefore faster than the 900 dothan.

The VIA is lower power than the Atom if clock speed < 1.3. But the Atom is more efficient >1.3. Odd results. But there you are.

Some bechmarks http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=61564&highlight=crystalmark

Error 404 · Jun 2, 2008

So, an Atom is the most powerful out of those three, but the VIA CPUs beat it in terms of power consumption when it is slower...
I'll go for an Atom based Subnotebook!

MrMilli · Jun 3, 2008

lemonadesoda .... always giving wrong information. Why don't you do some research first?
Last time i saw you giving wrong information was with the RV770 debate.
If you don't mind, i need to corrrect you (again).

Clock-for-clock performance:
Dothan = 3x C7
Dothan = 2.5x Atom
But the Via Nano will probably turn out a bit faster than Dothan on general applications.
Atom without Hyperthreading isn't much faster than the C7. So if the application you use a lot isn't threaded, then the performance won't be that much greater. Hyperthreading will give a smoother feeling under multitasking though.

The fact that the old D201GLY2 (Celeron 220 1.2ghz) is much faster than the D945GCLF (Atom 1.6) under real application proves my point about Dothan. Atom has inflated results under synthetic benchmarks because of Hyperthreading.

Lame MP3 quick results:
C7 1.6 around 4.4x
Atom 1.6 without HT around 4.7x
Atom 1.6 with HT around 6.8x
Celeron 220 around 11.3x

These are refrences you can use to get an understanding about the performance:
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/MBD-I-D201GLY/intel-d201gly-power-consumption.html
http://www.car-pc.info/reviews/intel-d945gclf-review
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080529-via-takes-the-wraps-off-isaiah-meet-the-nano.html
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/61256
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7595&Itemid=1

The Atom CPU is the most power efficient (4W), then C7 (>5W) and then Dothan (>5W).
But that's the CPU alone, without taking the platform into account.
You can read my post here to get a better understanding about this issue:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=814744&postcount=24

lemonadesoda · Jun 3, 2008

there you go, mouthing off again. :rolleyes:

which statements dont you agree with?

1./ The Intel Atom is a lot faster than the C7.

2./ The new VIA Isaiah is about the same speed as the Atom. I've seen DIFFERENT results on early benchmarks, so we'll have to see which is really the better CPU with regard to memory managment, FPU, multitasking, encoding, etc.

3./ The Intel Atom is about the same as the dothan at the same clocks. So a 1.6 Atom is therefore faster than the 900 dothan.

4./ The VIA Isaiah is lower power than the Atom if clock speed < 1.3. But the Atom is more efficient >1.3. Odd results. But there you are.

So, from your VERY OWN chart

, points 1, 2 and 3 are proven.

From your other link, it seems that the Atom is a power winner in all circumstances. That may be true. But is different from the Via Nano initial press release. I'll take an independent review anyday over marketing PR, so I'll go with point 4 being incorrect.

If you have found other benchmarks that indicate different results, great show them. And note that under DIFFERENT TASKS, the CPUs perform differently. Correcting information, or showing different data, is welcome. But to start insulting a member the way you do, and this isnt the first time, just goes to show you're looking to make unnecessary trouble and conflict.

I dont think that attitude is welcome here at TPU or fits with the forum rules.

DrPepper · Jun 3, 2008

MrMilli said:
lemonadesoda .... always giving wrong information. Why don't you do some research first?
Last time i saw you giving wrong information was with the RV770 debate.
If you don't mind, i need to corrrect you (again).

Wow that sounds bigheaded :shadedshu There is no need for that.

EastCoasthandle · Jun 3, 2008

I don't understand all of this? They are making dual core Atoms that will make this all moot IMO. It's not too hard to believe that a quad core Atom is possible if needed.

New Single Core 230 Atom:
1.87GHz
533MHz bus
512KB of Level 2 cache memory

New Dual Core 300 Atom:
8 Watts
up to 1.87GHz (so far)
1MB of L2 cache
4 instructions threads at once through hyperthreading
etc

erocker · Jun 3, 2008

MrMilli said:
lemonadesoda .... always giving wrong information. Why don't you do some research first?
Last time i saw you giving wrong information was with the RV770 debate.
If you don't mind, i need to corrrect you (again).

^^ Unecessary. Please try to respect others, and not try to start arguments.

MrMilli · Jun 3, 2008

lemonadesoda read this again:
Atom has inflated results under synthetic benchmarks because of Hyperthreading.
I know i posted that graph but i also posted the above statement. You can practically cut Atom's results into half for synthetic benchmarks. Check out my Lame MP3 results and others i have posted!

Can you also explain to me how an in-order 2-issue design (=atom) can be as fast as an out-of-order 3-issue design (=dothan)? Please don't tell anyone else that you think it can be as fast because .... lol
BTW Isaiah is also an out-of-order 3-issue design with micro- and macro-op fusion.
Core Solo (Celeron 220) is an out-of-order 4-issue design.
If you don't know what in-order, out-of-order, issue width, ... are then how can we have a discussion? What am i saying, if you knew then we wouldn't have this discussion.

Also explain how 4W (=Atom) is more than 5W (=Isaiah)!

DrPepper it may sound bigheaded but i'm just tired of lemonadesoda spreading wrong information on this forum. I prefer facts over guessing.

DrPepper · Jun 3, 2008

I doubt he is spreading it maliciously so there is no need to be angry at him maybe he was misinformed about it, maybe you are but the fact is people make mistakes and you shouldn't be annoyed about it: you should politely correct him without being forceful or arrogant with your answers.

erocker · Jun 3, 2008

Please let the Moderators deal with the moderating, now lets get on topic!

cdawall · Jun 3, 2008

MrMilli said:
Also explain how 4W (=Atom) is more than 5W (=Isaiah)!

Nano's power consumption is clearly higher than Atom's, but the exact difference isn't as clear as the numbers make it seem. VIA, like AMD, provides maximum possible TDP numbers, while Intel's TDP specifications "should be used to design the processor thermal solution." Intel also provides an "Average Power" value, defined as "measured CPU power whilst running BAPCo MobileMark'05 Office Productivity suite on Microsoft Windows XP for a period of 90min at 50°C."

maybe this is why?

from your source http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080529-via-takes-the-wraps-off-isaiah-meet-the-nano.html

did you even read them?

Frederik S · Jun 3, 2008

MrMilli said:
lemonadesoda read this again:
Atom has inflated results under synthetic benchmarks because of Hyperthreading.

Can you also explain to me how an in-order 2-issue design (=atom) can be as fast as an out-of-order 3-issue design (=dothan)?.

Agreed, Atom is not all it is hyped up to be. It is quite cost efficient and has a low power consumption though. And yes the Atom CPUs can't be as fast as the Dothans at non-threaded tasks.

Right now the Atom is quite attractive, because we are already seeing small form factor boards that are cheap and feature a lot of functionality. Which are quite cheap to boot http://www.tweakup.dk/article/1434/dk/ (BEWARE: Danish site

) like that (DKK 600 = $100). Would be nice if the Atoms could be paired with a decent chipset.

Just my thoughts..

MrMilli · Jun 3, 2008

DrPepper said:
I doubt he is spreading it maliciously so there is no need to be angry at him maybe he was misinformed about it, maybe you are but the fact is people make mistakes and you shouldn't be annoyed about it: you should politely correct him without being forceful or arrogant with your answers.

Well it depends how you look at it. I didn't mean to sound agry but annoyed i am.
I know a person can make mistakes but when someone corrects you, you should take notice and not just dismiss it.
Not only that; when someone 'makes mistakes' on so many threads, i become suspicious.
Well he may be misinformed but why make 3 posts a day if you are misinformed about so many things.

What i want to say in conclusion:
I hate misinformation. If you are not sure about your facts then don't misinform.
Would you like your newspaper to misinform? Many people (like Error 404) are relying on forums like this one to get 'correct' information about things they don't understand. If someone asks something i'm not sure about then i won't guess and just say something. That's not how i do business in real life either.
I'm pretty sure i will get an infarction for this but to be honest, i don't care anymore. I'm done with this forum. Each time i correct Lemonisoda, i get an infarction. I don't even know why i would want to waste time on this.
If Wizzard & co prefers me to be gone then so be it.

erocker · Jun 3, 2008

You did not get an infraction. This thread wasn't started so you can argue over another member or your diciplinary status. All we ask is that you follow the forum guidelines and keep threads on topic while respecting other people. Not keeping your emotions in check on the web is up to you, not the rest of the world. That isn't too much to ask is it? Now please, let's drop these bad feelings and attitudes and let's all try to be more positive. If some of you still feel like you need to argue the point infractions will be dealt out.

MrMilli · Jun 3, 2008

cdawall said:
maybe this is why?

from your source http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080529-via-takes-the-wraps-off-isaiah-meet-the-nano.html

did you even read them?

Of course i did. I did post this too:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=814744&postcount=24

TDP figures are indeed a bit misleading now but since i haven't seen any real Nano figures, all i can go by is numbers.

Solaris17 · Jun 3, 2008

ill make it more positive erocker

Get the VIA C7-M it has a cooler case badge plain and simple.

DrPepper · Jun 3, 2008

I'l leave this to the mods. I was trying to prevent you from getting an infraction.

cdawall · Jun 3, 2008

MrMilli said:
Well it depends how you look at it. I didn't mean to sound agry but annoyed i am.
I know a person can make mistakes but when someone corrects you, you should take notice and not just dismiss it.
Not only that; when someone 'makes mistakes' on so many threads, i become suspicious.
Well he may be misinformed but why make 3 posts a day if you are misinformed about so many things.

What i want to say in conclusion:
I hate misinformation. If you are not sure about your facts then don't misinform.
Would you like your newspaper to misinform? Many people (like Error 404) are relying on forums like this one to get 'correct' information about things they don't understand. If someone asks something i'm not sure about then i won't guess and just say something. That's not how i do business in real life either.
I'm pretty sure i will get an infarction for this but to be honest, i don't care anymore. I'm done with this forum. Each time i correct Lemonisoda, i get an infarction. I don't even know why i would want to waste time on this.
If Wizzard & co prefers me to be gone then so be it.

its not that you corrected him its how you corrected him
read through this it explains why people got angry more or less you wree trolling and you insulted lemon which is a clear violation of the forum guidelines which happend to be at the top of every sub section of the forums

forum guidelines said:
Posting in a thread

Be polite, if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all. This includes trolling, continuous use of bad language (ie. cussing), flaming and insulting others.

Short and pointless posts like "yeah", "me too" or "haha" can be made on the rest of the internet, not here. Post count doesn't increase your e-penis.

Stay on topic, changing the topic won't help the discussion.

Behavior that is inappropriate/should be reported

Insulting other forum members (calling someone makes you look stupid anyways)

Racist, hateful, and otherwise demeaning comments will not be tolerated; whether meant as a joke or not.

"Trolling"

Wikipedia said:

Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, more often than not based on what they thought was said rather than what was actually said by the other person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others. The key element under attack by a troll is the forum or group's recognized and agreed upon power structure. To this extent, a troll does not necessarily have to make malicious or incorrect comments

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(internet)

Posting useless/wrong information in response to a serious topic.

Non-constructive criticism of a person's English

Posting "FUD" (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt), especially if the poster is trying to pass it off as legitimate news.

Posting a lot of tech news articles in the forums. One or two things when the newsposters are all on vacation is nice, but in general, please leave the newsposting to the news posters. It's their job.

Post whoring (posting nonsense for the pure joy of it, otherwise known as spamming or thread-crapping).

erocker · Jun 3, 2008

In case some of you already forgot.

erocker said:
If some of you still feel like you need to argue the point, infractions will be dealt out.

Cut it out, and stay on topic please.

DrPepper · Jun 3, 2008

I would highly recommend the EEE PC I had such a good experience with one that I'm going to buy myself one.

Polaris573 · Jun 3, 2008

Next person that is off topic gets an infraction.

cdawall · Jun 3, 2008

the Atom is more powerful and uses less watts (maybe?) so go for it its the better chip at this moment the new Via chip might change that though

Solaris17 · Jun 3, 2008

id personally go with the via one the wattage is close and so is the performance in non HT scenarios..actually judging by the graph above it out performs it. It might actually be cheaper to.

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Via C7-M vs. Intel Atom vs. Pentium M Dothan

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