My 8400gs is being bottleneck by something

RadeonProVega · Jul 26, 2009

And i can't seem to figure out what it is

I recently switch over to XP home edition, but i plan to upgrade to Pro edition soon. Alright here is some information.

Vista 32 + 8400GS + 175.16 + No nforce drivers install = No bottleneck, no issues
Vista 32 + 8400gs + any other driver besides 175.16 + Nforce drivers = bottleneck, slower performance in games.

Xp Home edition + 8400gs + any driver so far, which i have tested = MAJOR MAJOR Bottleneck, only seems to be affecting certain games.

Would pro fix this problem?
Or could it be nforce drivers?
Or does my 8400gs just suck compared to the 2400HD?
Never had this problem with the 2400hd and i am using the same nforce drivers for my MB, so if its not the nforce drivers, what the hell is it?
And again, this problem isn't present In Vista when i don't use Nforce drivers and i use the 175.16 drivers.

Note: I have no plans to go back to using Vista on this system, i was just showing you some examples, but main issue now is with XP
Note 2: I am moving away from PCI cards soon, but at the moment, just trying to get around the problem. I know once i move on to pcie, i am sure i won't have this sort of problem anymore.

a_ump · Jul 26, 2009

could you name the games your having i assume FPS drops in? as the HD 2400 and 8400GS trade blows in games by a decent amount.

EDIT: and yea your 8400GS sucks and really isn't a reason to buy one when you could get an HD 4650 for like $50(newegg) and have 4x the performance.

RadeonProVega · Jul 26, 2009

a_ump said:
could you name the games your having i assume FPS drops in? as the HD 2400 and 8400GS trade blows in games by a decent amount.

But keep in mind, i never had this problem in Vista, and i don't have this problem in XP with my 2400hd. But anyways to answer the question, Crysis, Crysis warhead, SOF3 OMG horrible 3-4 fps, The Mark , Bioshock.

With my 2400hd in XP home edition which i am using now.

Crysis 1280x1024 all high to medium to low settings, 18-35fps, at 1024x768 same settings, 25-40fps.
Crysis Warhead 1280x1024 pretty much the same as in crysis really, pretty decent performnace.
SOF3 1280x1024 15-28fps.
The Mark - 20-65
Bioshock 1280x1024 all max settings = 12-18fps, or 1280x1024 medium to low settings 20-37fps.

Thats with my 2400HD , runs games really good. But another thing, i never had this problem using my old Celeron D with my 8400gs. I have no idea what is going on now, but i will see if the problem changes once i upgrade to Pro edition.

RadeonProVega · Jul 26, 2009

a_ump said:
could you name the games your having i assume FPS drops in? as the HD 2400 and 8400GS trade blows in games by a decent amount.

EDIT: and yea your 8400GS sucks and really isn't a reason to buy one when you could get an HD 4650 for like $50(newegg) and have 4x the performance.

um i am moving on to pcie soon, as i said above, i am just trying to use my 8400gs in peace for the moment. Not all games are being affected, however if other games are being bottleneck, well the games that seem to run fine , could run much better i think.

newtekie1 · Jul 26, 2009

What games are you having problems with specifically? They aren't PhysX games that are overloading the 8400GS are they?

NVM-Those aren't PhysX games.

RadeonProVega · Jul 26, 2009

newtekie1 said:
What games are you having problems with specifically? They aren't PhysX games that are overloading the 8400GS are they?

NVM-Those aren't PhysX games.

The only games which i seem to have trouble with, is demanding ones, like Bioshock, or Crysis games, or Jericho and The Mark and Shade Wrath( even tho that game never worked well with the 8400gs ) and SOF3

I don't even have Nvidia GPU physx install, i have the older one that ships with Jericho. Ageia physx. Let me go install Pro edition right quick. Be back later. I think it has something to do with nforce being install, and well using XP , i have no choice but to install it. Maybe using nforce and a 8400gs is bad. Thats why when i was using Vista, i had to remove them and use the Vista drivers install. But for some reason it doesn't seem to affect the 2400 card.

hat · Jul 26, 2009

Performance issues with an 8400gs and demanding games? Sounds right..

sneekypeet · Jul 26, 2009

Simple solution sems to be, just run the HD 2400 until you get something better. If the 8400 is failing why fight it?

a_ump · Jul 26, 2009

i agree with hat, i think you expect more out of your hardware than well should ever bee expected. these cards are mostly just for HTPC uses from what i understood. just watching HD movies and the like. Gaming? eh there's probly integrated graphics from ATI that are better than those cards lol.

i didn't realize it was you u2konline....and your thoughts of PCI-E have kinda been mentioned for the past like 5 months.

dam u, changed your avy to trick me into thinkin it was someone new :slap:

1Kurgan1 · Jul 26, 2009

8400gs is a budget card now and was a budget card when it was released, it really shouldn't even be used to play a game like Crysis even on low settings. So any game like that is just going to stretch the cards ability to perform out too far. Time to move on, you can get a great card liek a 4830 for $73 after rebate no reason not to jump on that.

Darren · Jul 26, 2009

u2konline,

Your 8400 GS is being bottlenecked by your 8400 GS,

Sorry.

Edit:

u2konline said:
Clearly alot of you guys don't seem to be reading, thanks for the help i guess lol.

We read that your "movie watching" video card struggles to carry out non movie watching activities such as playing games well.

If you read our posts and took our advice weeks or months back you wouldn't be here complaining about your movie watching graphics card's rubbish performance because we recommended a suitable "gaming card" within your budget.

Your fault.

RadeonProVega · Jul 26, 2009

Clearly alot of you guys don't seem to be reading, thanks for the help i guess lol.

RadeonProVega · Jul 26, 2009

Darren said:
We read that your "movie watching" video card struggles to carry out non movie watching activities such as playing games well.

Who said anything about having trouble with playing movies?
I never said that. Well actually i did a while back, only when i was using Vista 32bit + 8400gs, but now that i am using XP pro + 8400gs , movies are working just fine. But this has nothing to do with what is going on now.

I clearly said that the 8400gs worked perfectly when i had my Celeron D that had a Intel board btw and i also said my 8400gs worked just fine using Vista 32bit. But for some reason using XP home or Professional(which i am using now ) read- struggles ------> playing certain games , but not all games <------------

I clearly was asking for a way around it, but sadly i have not figure out what the problem may be. Even tho i think its because of the Nvidia board with PCI cards/Drivers. Which is why it does not affect my 2400HD.

Darren said:
If you read our posts and took our advice weeks or months back

Oh but see, i never ask for your advice to began with, so thanks, but no thanks. Your advice is nothing i want to hear anyway, because i never plan to use high end cards or any card that require a power connector. I am finally moving on to PCIE soon, but i am going to buy what i want to buy.

odameyer · Jul 26, 2009

u2konline said:
But keep in mind, i never had this problem in Vista, and i don't have this problem in XP with my 2400hd. But anyways to answer the question, Crysis, Crysis warhead, SOF3 OMG horrible 3-4 fps, The Mark , Bioshock.

With my 2400hd in XP home edition which i am using now.

Crysis 1280x1024 all high to medium to low settings, 18-35fps, at 1024x768 same settings, 25-40fps.
Crysis Warhead 1280x1024 pretty much the same as in crysis really, pretty decent performnace.
SOF3 1280x1024 15-28fps.
The Mark - 20-65
Bioshock 1280x1024 all max settings = 12-18fps, or 1280x1024 medium to low settings 20-37fps.

Thats with my 2400HD , runs games really good. But another thing, i never had this problem using my old Celeron D with my 8400gs. I have no idea what is going on now, but i will see if the problem changes once i upgrade to Pro edition.

It's DirectX 10, your 8400GS is weak so it's not taking well to DX10, try running it at DX9 and post your results.

PaulieG · Jul 26, 2009

UK, thing is, everyone ends up thinking you are joking around and wasting people's time with your posts. That's the first thing I think of when I hear someone talking about problems with running Crysis with a 8400gs. That card is meant for light multimedia duty, and that is all. The thought of you trying to run high end games with it is just ludacris. People just cannot get past this to be able to help.

Darren · Jul 26, 2009

u2konline said:
Who said anything about having trouble with playing movies?
I never said that. Well actually i did a while back, only when i was using Vista 32bit + 8400gs, but now that i am using XP pro + 8400gs , movies are working just fine. But this has nothing to do with what is going on now.

Read. I never said that you had an issue watching movies. I said that your video card (8400GS) is a glorified movie watching video card, not a gaming video card.

u2konline said:
I clearly said that the 8400gs worked perfectly when i had my Celeron D that had a Intel board btw and i also said my 8400gs worked just fine using Vista 32bit. But for some reason using XP home or Professional(which i am using now ) read- struggles ------> playing certain games , but not all games <------------.

What is your definition of fine? fine is not an indication of performance.

u2konline said:
I clearly was asking for a way around it, but sadly i have not figure out what the problem may be. Even tho i think its because of the Nvidia board with PCI cards/Drivers. Which is why it does not affect my 2400HD.

Oh but see, i never ask for your advice to began with, so thanks, but no thanks. Your advice is nothing i want to hear anyway, because i never plan to use high end cards or any card that require a power connector. I am finally moving on to PCIE soon, but i am going to buy what i want to buy.

Although you may not of asked for my advice specifically, you have on many occasions asked the advice from the TPU community, as a member of the community I gave you legitimate advice along with other members, those members advised you to not get involved with low caliber cards marketed for movie playback as suitable choices for playing games. We looked at your budget and spec'd you a few good PCI-E builds. It was your decision to ignore us.

PaulieG · Jul 26, 2009

Keep it civil, people.

Bundy · Jul 26, 2009

UK2 - it seems that rather than drivers being the fault, maybe the "good" one is limiting the performance in some way, thus enabling your card to keep up.

try dropping the PQ back a bit.

hat · Jul 26, 2009

u2konline said:
b]read- struggles ------> playing certain games , but not all games <------------[/b]

This is not supising in the least. When my video card fried and I was stuck with my integrated 8100, it too struggled in some games, but not all games. For example, it struggled in BF2, but was OK in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

RadeonProVega · Jul 27, 2009

odameyer said:
It's DirectX 10, your 8400GS is weak so it's not taking well to DX10, try running it at DX9 and post your results.

I am not using Direct X10, i just said that i am using XP professional. And again, the card ran fine in directx10 with Vista 32bit, when i was using it.

Paulieg said:
U2K, thing is, everyone ends up thinking you are joking around and wasting people's time with your posts. That's the first thing I think of when I hear someone talking about problems with running Crysis with a 8400gs. That card is meant for light multimedia duty, and that is all. The thought of you trying to run high end games with it is just ludacris. People just cannot get past this to be able to help.

Well if they took the time to read, i said over and over again, that the 8400gs was running crysis just fine. But for some reason there is a problem with running certain games in XP using the 8400gs for this system. I ran crysis just fine with my 8400gs when i was using Vista, or when i was using that celeron D i had and it ran just fine on my Pentium III. I am clearly trying to figure out what is going on now.

I strongly believe its because of the nforce drivers and PCI. There was a story about it over at fuzilla a while back. See with Vista, i didn't have to use Nforce drivers, but with XP i do. Also, the reason why my 2400HD isn't affected, is because well its ATI. The information was about Nforce drivers, it said something about how if you use nforce drivers and a PCI card, the performance will be worse. They said the problem was fix, but thats not true.

Darren said:
Read. I said that your video card (8400GS) is, not a gaming video card.

It plays games, so why isn't it a gaming card?

Darren said:
What is your definition of fine? fine is not an indication of performance.

Well i only use CRT monitors and i only game at 1280x1024 at high or max settings and the perfect fps for me is between a solid 20-30fps. Even tho i tend to get between 30-60 and 100-200fps in most of my games. But yea 20-30 frames is just fine me with pretty much anything.
With my 8400gs recently i am getting between 200-400fps in Serious sam games and nitro family. And over 150fps in Alpha prime. Old games, sure, but still good.

Darren said:
It was your decision to ignore us.

But i hardly ever have trouble in gaming, thats what everyone doesn't seem to understand. I don't use cards that require power connectors and i never plan to buy any high end card. I like using low end to low profile to mid range cards. And well i never have any trouble with them, games runs just like i want them to run. If i have a problem, its because of something else, not because of the card itself. I don't need all the new stuff to be able to enjoy pc gaming.

I am buying my first 2 pcie cards, a Diamond 4550 512MB GDDR3 card and a XFX 9500GT 1GB GDDR3 card, now compare them to a 8400gs and a 2400hd, now i am sure i will get 4x the performance over those 2 pci cards. You may think oh they are a waste of time, but i am sure i will be gaming pretty good, considering the fact that i only use 1280x1024 and i like to get between 20-30fps.

Bundy said:
UK2 - it seems that rather than drivers being the fault, maybe the "good" one is limiting the performance in some way, thus enabling your card to keep up.
try dropping the PQ back a bit.

I tried pretty much all the drivers, seriously. I am waiting for a modded 81.98 drivers or 82.69 one, it may fix the problem. But i think its because of the information from fuzilla a while back about using nforce and pci cards. Ain't no way around it, so i am just going to use my 8400gs and play what i can play until i go video card shopping.

hat said:
This is not surprising in the least.

MadClown · Jul 27, 2009

I didn't know a 8400GS could be bottlenecked!

Darren · Jul 27, 2009

u2konline said:
It plays games, so why isn't it a gaming card?

Well I can use a hammer, it does not make me a carpenter.

Likewise, the 8400 GS can play games (poorly), does not make it a gaming card.

u2konline said:
I ran crysis just fine with my 8400gs when i was using Vista, or when i was using that celeron D i had and it ran just fine on my Pentium III. I am clearly trying to figure out what is going on now.

A Pentium III can not run Crysis, stop trying to fool us please.

u2konline said:
I like using low end to low profile to mid range cards. And well i never have any trouble with them, games runs just like i want them to run. If i have a problem, its because of something else, not because of the card itself. I don't need all the new stuff to be able to enjoy pc gaming.?

Mid range, you've never owned a mid range video card.

u2konline said:
I am buying my first 2 pcie cards, a Diamond 4550 512MB GDDR3 card and a XFX 9500GT 1GB GDDR3 card, now compare them to a 8400gs and a 2400hd, now i am sure i will get 4x the performance over those 2 pci cards. You may think oh they are a waste of time, but i am sure i will be gaming pretty good, considering the fact that i only use 1280x1024 and i like to get between 20-30fps.

I've seen the 9500 GT struggle @ 1280x1024 with high end dual cores. The bare minimum video card for gaming that I would recommend is the 4670/9600 GT.

If you honestly feel the Diamond 4550 512MB is a good purchase, you are fooling yourself.

odameyer · Jul 27, 2009

I think the 8400GS is the bottleneck :laugh:

RadeonProVega · Jul 27, 2009

Well just tested 7 of my games, and they all run good at max settings at 1280x1024. 40-100-200fps. So far the only games which are giving me trouble is Crysis, Warhead, SO3, Jericho and the Mark. Bioshock i have to test again.

Darren said:
I've seen the 9500 GT struggle @ 1280x1024 with high end dual cores. The bare minimum video card for gaming that I would recommend is the 4670/9600 GT.
If you honestly feel the Diamond 4550 512MB is a good purchase, you are fooling yourself.

Difference of opinion? sure. I know how most pc gamers game and think wise, i just tend to view and play games differently, no big deal.
peace

Flyordie · Jul 27, 2009

Lol, 8400GS...
Just get an HD4670 and watch how good it gets... :roll:

I have to ask this question-
Is Earth the center of the universe? (Does the Sun rotate around the Earth or does the Earth rotate around the Sun?)

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My 8400gs is being bottleneck by something

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