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Phenom II or Intel i7?

bud951

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I need a main PC since I have sold off most of my other stuff. I plan on building a no holds barred X58 this fall. I need something now that wont break my wallet too much but give me great performance and that I have fun toying around with like overclocking. I would like the newer features such as USB 3.0 and SATA III. I haven't built an AMD system in a while and I was leaning that way since the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition is nicely priced. The GIGABYTE GA-790FXTA-UD5 looks like a nice MB and has most of the stuff I need. I am looking at just under $400 shipped from Newegg for this pair. Is there an Intel setup that compares for about the same price? Any recommendations on DDR3 RAM for either? Looking for CPU, MB and RAM. Any info is greatly appreciated.
 

brandonwh64

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Well i just sold my 965 Black Edition to go I7 so imma have to say I7 due to speed.

But since you want a *easy on the wallet* PC now then i suggest a small AMD qaud setup? 99$ quads cant be beat *in price*
 

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bud951

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So Intel mainstream i7 processors are just that much better than the top AMD's? Say Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz owns the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz?
 
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So Intel mainstream i7 processors are just that much better than the top AMD's? Say Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz owns the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz?
You are correct and Intel has a better variety of motherboards to choose from. But or overall cheaper cost, AMD is the better choice.
 
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So Intel mainstream i7 processors are just that much better than the top AMD's? Say Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz owns the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz?

I'm currently running a couple of core i7 860 rigs and I'm putting together a 965BE rig too, for a gamer and daily driver. For raw speed, NOTHING is faster than i7. However, I really like AMD for a couple of reasons. First, there is just a "smooth" factor with running applications that I just don't get with Intel. I can't really explain it, but it's true. Also, AMD is currently more fun to tweak. Core i7 has just made it too easy to overclock. It frankly takes no skill to get high clock speeds from a 860 or 920. Because of this, I don't think I'd run Intel right now if I didn't need the raw power and virtual threads for crunching.
 
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bud951

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I'm currently running a couple of core i7 860 rigs and I'm putting together a 965BE rig too, for a gamer and daily driver. For raw speed, NOTHING is faster than i7. However, I really like AMD for a couple of reasons. First, there is just a "smooth" factor with running applications that I just don't get with Intel. I can't really explain it, but it's true. Also, AMD is currently more fun to tweak. Core i7 has just made it too easy to overclock. It frankly takes no skill to get high clock speeds from a 860 or 920. Because of this, I don't think I'd run Intel right now if I didn't need the raw power and virtual threads for crunching.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think makes the AMD setup "smooth" compared to the intel? It is real world stuff that I love and that is interesting. Being superior on paper is one thing but how a system works in everyday applications is another. I do appreciate the input. Thanks.
 

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If you don't mind me asking, what do you think makes the AMD setup "smooth" compared to the intel? It is real world stuff that I love and that is interesting. Being superior on paper is one thing but how a system works in everyday applications is another. I do appreciate the input. Thanks.

I just want to give my input on this 'smooth' factor as well since I have an i7 and 965. As far as I have noticed he Phenom feels smooth on the desktop- whether it be browsing the web, in Office, etc it is smooth, crisp, snappy. My i7 in comparison actually seems to lag a little bit, stuttering sometimes. That said, I will add that my Q9550 was better than them both.

I don't know if that is specifically what Paul has noticed, but thats my take as a previous and current owner.

Excuse me while I plug my FS thread, which has both a Athlon X4 and Phenom 965 up that may interest you.
 
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The Phenom II 975 is on its way with a nice 3.60 GHz Quad-Core speed.
 
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I just want to give my input on this 'smooth' factor as well since I have an i7 and 965. As far as I have noticed he Phenom feels smooth on the desktop- whether it be browsing the web, in Office, etc it is smooth, crisp, snappy. My i7 in comparison actually seems to lag a little bit, stuttering sometimes. That said, I will add that my Q9550 was better than them both.

I don't know if that is specifically what Paul has noticed, but thats my take as a previous and current owner.

Excuse me while I plug my FS thread, which has both a Athlon X4 and Phenom 965 up that may interest you.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think makes the AMD setup "smooth" compared to the intel? It is real world stuff that I love and that is interesting. Being superior on paper is one thing but how a system works in everyday applications is another. I do appreciate the input. Thanks.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Phenom II is just smooth like butter through daily task in comparison to my Intel rigs. Don't really know how to explain it, and others may think I'm full of BS. However, this does come from an owner of 2 i7 rigs. :)
 

brandonwh64

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Paulie your right! i had a E5200 overclocked to 3.6ghz and a HTPC with a 5400+ black edition and i beleive the AMD ran so smooth i sold the Intel and built a bigger AMD but now i want back to the Intel side with there I7 rockin house
 

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My 945ES is the smoothest PC I've ever used......but there is no denying the power of the i7.


That being said...I don't think I need any more power so I'll keep my cheaper, smoother AMD rig, thanks. :toast:
 

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I'm currently running a couple of core i7 860 rigs and I'm putting together a 965BE rig too, for a gamer and daily driver. For raw speed, NOTHING is faster than i7. However, I really like AMD for a couple of reasons. First, there is just a "smooth" factor with running applications that I just don't get with Intel. I can't really explain it, but it's true. Also, AMD is currently more fun to tweak. Core i7 has just made it too easy to overclock. It frankly takes no skill to get high clock speeds from a 860 or 920. Because of this, I don't think I'd run Intel right now if I didn't need the raw power and virtual threads for crunching.

I agree, I sold my X58 stuff and went with AM3/965 for a few reasons,
I couldnt tell any dif in speed in real life(only benches) AMD to me is a LOT smoother, cooler, more efficient, cheaper and easier to work with.
 

brandonwh64

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LOL i can never leave well enough alone LOL i go from a Pentium D 805 to a intel 5200 @ 3.6ghz to a AMD X2 5400+ black edition to a AMD Phenom II 940 Black Edition to a AMD Phenom II 965 Black Edition to a final Intel I7 920 D0
 
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bud951, I'll tell you, the i7+X58 is the most stable and most overclockable high-end platform I had my pleasure of dealing with in a long time. I haven't seen anything this good since the nForce2+SocketA days. As for the financial angle, the prices on i7+X58 hardware have dropped so much that in some places older LGA775 stuff is priced higher. You can get your i7+X58 hardware even cheaper if you choose to go the used/refurbished route. I'm sure you can find somebody in the trade section of TPU soon enough. Also, check out the trade forums on HardForum and Overclock.net. Plenty of i7+X58 hardware exchanging hands at some great prices.

Also, by fall the X68 line-up will be out and we can probably expect 8-16 core CPUs soon after that, which will no doubt be LGA1366-only affair, and you will be half way there with a X58 motherboard (if you choose not to go the X68 route).

As for AMD? I used AMD exclusively from 2002 to 2008 in my builds, and I mean exclusively. However, the times have changed. Even today AMD has trouble competing with Intel and their now ancient LGA775 platform, much less with the stuff coming out of Intel nowadays. A sad situation no doubt, but I really can't recommnend the AMD's AM2+/AM3 platform unless: a) you really like a challenge when it comes to overclocking/troubleshooting, b)have a strong innate liking for the "underdogs", c) have money to burn, d) all of the above.

AM2+/AM3 motherboards are pretty feature deficient compared to what can be seen with LGA1366 or even LGA1156 hardware, and are in my opinion priced way above what they are worth. Heck, when you compare the evolutions of platforms: from Socket 939 to AM3 for AMD and from Socket 478 to LGA 1366 for Intel, only then do you realize how far AMD has fallen back.

As for the entire "smoothness" argument, I think it has to do the fact that Intel is generally considered a big bad evil corporation that is out to crush the competition (hey, it might not be far from the truth) and the whole feeling of smoothness is just an emotional response to that. However, in my personal opinion "emotional responses" are not something worth spending hard earned cash over. Especially when it comes to PC hardware.

Since you say this is going to be your main workstation, I say go with i7+X58, you won't regret it. Don't get me wrong, AMD's platforms still have a place in the budget HTPC or laptop arena, but take it from a long time AMD overclocker/tweaker (and a shareholder), for your primary machine, i7+X58 is what you are looking for.
 
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This is exactly what I'm talking about. Phenom II is just smooth like butter through daily task in comparison to my Intel rigs. Don't really know how to explain it, and others may think I'm full of BS. However, this does come from an owner of 2 i7 rigs. :)

I'll see if I can confirm this tomorrow, I'll be replacing the Q9400 with a Phenom II X4 955, which, theoretically, should be about the same speed (maybe a bit faster), but I'll see if it "feels" any smoother.
 

bud951

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I think what this is boiling down for me is the lack of feature rich motherboards supporting the AMD3 platform. I also wish the new generation of X58 motherboards would just get on the market. I know Intel is and has been better for years. I do have some feeling of support for AMD (the underdog) which I hope does not just go away. If they do then Intel will have there way with all of us as far as pricing goes. It seems like they already do as far as the top CPU's go. $1000 is just insane! I am actually hoping this "smooth" aspect really does exist since it does give a reason to consider an AMD platform at least for now and the 965BE is just priced so nice.
 
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bud951, I'll tell you, the i7+X58 is the most stable and most overclockable high-end platform I had my pleasure of dealing with in a long time. I haven't seen anything this good since the nForce2+SocketA days. As for the financial angle, the prices on i7+X58 hardware have dropped so much that in some places older LGA775 stuff is priced higher. You can get your i7+X58 hardware even cheaper if you choose to go the used/refurbished route. I'm sure you can find somebody in the trade section of TPU soon enough. Also, check out the trade forums on HardForum and Overclock.net. Plenty of i7+X58 hardware exchanging hands at some great prices.

Also, by fall the X68 line-up will be out and we can probably expect 8-16 core CPUs soon after that, which will no doubt be LGA1366-only affair, and you will be half way there with a X58 motherboard (if you choose not to go the X68 route).

As for AMD? I used AMD exclusively from 2002 to 2008 in my builds, and I mean exclusively. However, the times have changed. Even today AMD has trouble competing with Intel and their now ancient LGA775 platform, much less with the stuff coming out of Intel nowadays. A sad situation no doubt, but I really can't recommnend the AMD's AM2+/AM3 platform unless: a) you really like a challenge when it comes to overclocking/troubleshooting, b)have a strong innate liking for the "underdogs", c) have money to burn, d) all of the above.

AM2+/AM3 motherboards are pretty feature deficient compared to what can be seen with LGA1366 or even LGA1156 hardware, and are in my opinion priced way above what they are worth. Heck, when you compare the evolutions of platforms: from Socket 939 to AM3 for AMD and from Socket 478 to LGA 1366 for Intel, only then do you realize how far AMD has fallen back.

As for the entire "smoothness" argument, I think it has to do the fact that Intel is generally considered a big bad evil corporation that is out to crush the competition (hey, it might not be far from the truth) and the whole feeling of smoothness is just an emotional response to that. However, in my personal opinion "emotional responses" are not something worth spending hard earned cash over. Especially when it comes to PC hardware.

Since you say this is going to be your main workstation, I say go with i7+X58, you won't regret it. Don't get me wrong, AMD's platforms still have a place in the budget HTPC or laptop arena, but take it from a long time AMD overclocker/tweaker (and a shareholder), for your primary machine, i7+X58 is what you are looking for.

Not at all an emotional response from me. Just my experience with a total 18 different i7 chips (920 and 860) and nearly as many i7 boards. They are just pure brute speed. I'm certainly not saying that Intel is full of stuttering and choppy performance. I'm just saying that there is something about how programs load on AMD rigs. It's subtle, but it is real.

One could argue that we are so far beyond overkill regardless of whether you chose AMD or Intel right now. There is simply nothing that an overclocked i7, Phenom II or s775 C2Q can't handle. So, in reality the only thing you really gain when upgrading to i7 is benching stats and crunching, which is why I still own 2 i7's.
 
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AM2+/AM3 motherboards are pretty feature deficient compared to what can be seen with LGA1366 or even LGA1156 hardware, and are in my opinion priced way above what they are worth. Heck, when you compare the evolutions of platforms: from Socket 939 to AM3 for AMD and from Socket 478 to LGA 1366 for Intel, only then do you realize how far AMD has fallen back.
I believe you need correcting on your opinionated statement.
AM2+/AM3 being feature deficient is not entirely true, though Intel being in the chipset business for ages compared to AMD merits there slightly deficient features.
In regards to prices, hi end AMD motherboards are somewhat priced too high, but that is the highest of high for those motherboards but still MUCH cheaper than Intel motherboards. Intel’s higher than high motherboards is like giving away your arm for one.
Once again, AMD has not fallen behind because they’ve just started designing there own chipsets a few years ago. (Thank goodness for NVIDIA chipsets) The chipset that will bring AMD and Intel on par with each other in my honest opinion will be the chipset for the upcoming Bulldozer micro-architecture.
We got to cut AMD some slack, they don’t have anything near in R&D as Intel does. For a much smaller company they are doing alright though they need to keep there head above water.

If Bulldozer fails, so does AMD. But we all have to ask ourselves why would AMD name its upcoming design Bulldozer? So they can Bulldoze the competition lol
 
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I just want to give my input on this 'smooth' factor as well since I have an i7 and 965. As far as I have noticed he Phenom feels smooth on the desktop- whether it be browsing the web, in Office, etc it is smooth, crisp, snappy. My i7 in comparison actually seems to lag a little bit, stuttering sometimes. That said, I will add that my Q9550 was better than them both.

I don't know if that is specifically what Paul has noticed, but thats my take as a previous and current owner.

IT is the menory controller on the AMd chips and remember all the 64 os were first designed for AMD chips.
Excuse me while I plug my FS thread, which has both a Athlon X4 and Phenom 965 up that may interest you.

The Phenom II 975 is on its way with a nice 3.60 GHz Quad-Core speed.
Thats true and man I gotta say it your Avatar, geezs, that girls has some tits.
 
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Not at all an emotional response from me. Just my experience with a total 18 different i7 chips (920 and 860) and nearly as many i7 boards. They are just pure brute speed. I'm certainly not saying that Intel is full of stuttering and choppy performance. I'm just saying that there is something about how programs load on AMD rigs. It's subtle, but it is real.

One could argue that we are so far beyond overkill regardless of whether you chose AMD or Intel right now. There is simply nothing that an overclocked i7, Phenom II or s775 C2Q can't handle. So, in reality the only thing you really gain when upgrading to i7 is benching stats and crunching, which is why I still own 2 i7's.

Now thats spot on and the breast, I mean the best statement so far :laugh: :D Damn I Double DD posted
 
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I think that avatar with the tits is his wife or something, that is what he said in another thread I think :toast:
 
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Thats true and man I gotta say it your Avatar, geezs, that girls has some tits.

I have been avoiding saying that since I saw that pic.

Honestly, you say this is your primary workstation. Unless you need bragging rights, cruching or some other CPU heavy task, then the extra money is just not worth it.

And I didn't have any trouble OCing my Phenom II. I hit 4 Ghz just to know I could and downed it back to 3.5 at stock voltage because I didn't need it to run at the speed for anything.

As stated previously, CPU's PII and i7 are very OP right now. Both will walk all over anything you through at them. I will disagree with the "feature rich" motherboard comment as well. There is nothing additional or special in an i7 board you can't get from an AM3 board that I know of outside of SLI support.

The difference in price can be added into your GPU budget to give your system a better overall performance bonus.

I honestly think the smoothness factor is the fact Intel chips downclock themselves to save power. The Phenom's downclock un-used cores to save power and 1 or 2 are usually always at full speed. I honestly thing that is what is creating that occasional shutter.
 
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No, Phenom II cores also downclock. It's called Cool & Quiet. It auto reduces the CPU's vCore and reduces the core's clock speed. I've seen it many times in system builds. Not sure about turning off extra un-used cores though. I need to look into that. Perhaps the AMD Opterons do that:confused:

Cool 'N' Quiet™ 2.0 Technology
With the next generation of award-winning power saving technology, Cool'n'Quiet™ 2.0 Technology reduces heat and noise so you can experience amazing performance without distraction. Combined with core enhancements, included in the AMD Phenom™ processor, that can improve overall power savings, deliver seamless multitasking and energy efficiency. Work, play, talk, and share on a PC that's seen, not heard.

New features:
Independent Dynamic Core Technology- Helps users get more efficient performance by dynamically adjusting individual core frequencies as required by utilization needs
Dual Dynamic Power Management™ - Helps improve platform efficiency by providing full-speed memory performance while enabling decreased system power consumption.
AMD CoolCore™ Technology - Helps users get more efficient performance by dynamically activating or turning off parts of the processor.
AMD Wideband Frequency Control - Allows the processor to respond more precisely to user demands, maximizing performance to deliver a better PC user experience.
Multi-Point Thermal Control - Prevents processor from creating too much heat and enables a cooler, quieter PC experience
Cool 'N' Quiet™ 3.0 Technology
Capitalizing on AMD's leadership in energy efficiency with innovations such as, AMD Cool'n'Quiet™ 3.0 Technology, AMD Phenom™ II processors give you performance when you need it and save power when you don't.

In addition to the features included with Cool'n'Quiet 2.0 Technology, the following new features have been added:

AMD Smart Fetch Technology - Fewer processing cycles are required to locate information since data storage is streamlined and stored in the shared L3 cache. Provides CPU power savings by maintaining processor sleep states and sharing cached data between cores.
45 nm Process Technology with Immersion Lithography - puts more transistors in less space and delivers better processor performance while using less power.
 
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