Details on Nvidia PhysX - please read

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

I'm posting this here to help clarify some things i keep seeing around the place about PhysX - there seems to be some large misconceptions and misunderstandings relating to it.

PhysX is a Physics engine made by Ageia, and bought out by Nvidia. It supports software mode, and hardware acceleration.

In pretty much every thread i see about Nvidia vs ATI (so, anything involving video cards really) someone ALWAYS mentions PhysX, either that Nvidia is superior for having it, or that ATI cant do it (or can with a second Nvidia card) and various other things.

Well, heres the part no one seems to mention: How many games actually USE it?

This Wikipedia page looks impressive - check out all those titles, even a few big names in there (Batman AA, Borderlands, dragon age, etc).

Ok cool, so hurry up Mussels and get to the point.

The point is which of those titles support HARDWARE acceleration - as in, which games actually benefit from having an Nvidia GPU.

Hmmm, 15 games. Lets count the big titles: Unreal tournament 3, Mirrors edge, Batman AA and GRAW 2. Ummm, yeah. Less than impressive.

When you consider that in those games PhysX pretty much amounts for non-interactive 'looks only' physics effects (waving cloth, or random added debris that hurts FPS and not helps) PhysX starts to lose its shine. In fact the only reason it seems to have taken off is a program not listed, and thats 3Dmark vantage. Vantage uses PhysX to calcluate the CPU score, so Nvidia users get a massively higher CPU score in the program.

So after my wall of text, whats the point? Hardware PhysX is basically worthless, do NOT base any purchases based on hardware physX support.

P.S - this is not an nvidia bashing thread, which many of these turn into. Should this happen i'll just lock the thread - at least then people can still read the truth about PhysX without having to get yelled at by fanbois from both sides of the fence.

Grings · Mar 24, 2010

I've always disabled it in the Nvidia driver anyway, but didnt actually realise how few games used it

I did try using my old 8800GTS as a dedicated physx card, and saw no difference in any of the supporting games, now i know why...

brandonwh64 · Mar 24, 2010

im hoping to use it when my VisionTek 5850 gets here tomorrow. I will have a 9600GT as physx

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

brandonwh64 said:
im hoping to use it when my VisionTek 5850 gets here tomorrow. I will have a 9600GT as physx

And uhh, what games do you intend to use it on?

surfingerman · Mar 24, 2010

ehh not a bash thread eh... could have fooled me.. i didnt see ANY positive notes up there.. surely it has positive notes.. would be fair and balanced to add some

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

surfingerman said:
ehh not a bash thread eh... could have fooled me.. i didnt see ANY positive notes up there.. surely it has positive notes.. would be fair and balanced to add some

Such as?

This is about hardware physX - which has very little benefit over software PhysX. If it was a bash thread, i'd be talking about how it tends to be buggy and crashy as well, i'm not. I'm trying to educate people about the fact that just because a game supports physX, it does NOT mean having an Nvidia card with hardware physX will provide any benefit whatsoever.

brandonwh64 · Mar 24, 2010

Mussels said:
And uhh, what games do you intend to use it on?

borderlands, BC2, metro 2033, and more

r9 · Mar 24, 2010

PC performance at 99% of the time is GPU bottlenecked. Some how I always thought that CPU is way to go for physics. So making spare unused cores doing physics sounds to me more logical than doing physics on something that is already used at maximum. And reading this some one provable is going to say that from the demos that ATI/NV did that GPUs are superior in that aspect but CPU are more easier to program for.

qubit · Mar 24, 2010

Thanks for clarifying this for everyone, Mussels. Indeed, current implementations of PhysX only bring in a bit of eye candy, which is a waste for this technology. I've run the PhysX demos from nvidia and it looks really awsome when done properly.

I still haven't figured out how to actually see it in action in UT3, either. I've enabled it and used the right map, but still didn't see it. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong and just gave up. :confused:

I'd like to see an industry standard physics API, that's implemented properly in grade A games. Instead we've got two proprietary systems (PhysX and Havoc) that aren't being implemented properly, which sucks.

If this thread isn't yet a sticky, it should be.

qubit - GTX 285 owner.

HookeyStreet · Mar 24, 2010

Good read, thank you. I always felt PhysX was 'a bit of a gimmick', youve cleared things up for me

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

brandonwh64 said:
borderlands, BC2, metro 2033, and more

Good work on actually reading the first post, where i point out that it wont work >.<

BC2 and borderlands dont support hardware physX. I'm not sure on metro - i've not played it, and its new enough its possible its not on the list. There is a complete list, from nvidias site, where only 15 games are listed - these are the only game titles that get hardware PhysX support (with the exception of some brand spanking new games that arent listed yet, not that i'm aware of any)

brandonwh64 · Mar 24, 2010

Here is a current list. i didnt realize it was so small

SOURCE

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

thanks brandon. I didn't realize people wouldn't click the links in my first post, and that pictures would be necessary. I might as well add that image to the first post.

brandonwh64 · Mar 24, 2010

Mussels said:
thanks brandon. I didn't realize people wouldn't click the links in my first post, and that pictures would be necessary. I might as well add that image to the first post.

Alot of people just skim through the post to get the main idea (im guilty of it most of the time too). its always good to have picture up for us

bobzilla2009 · Mar 24, 2010

I've always thought of physX as just some marketing crap which didn't amount to anything significant. Sure, if nvidia released an absolutely killer card (which they haven't since the 8 series) which was worth the price then physX would be a nice extra on a very small selection of games.

But it's like buying a card based on how it looks. Sure, you'll feel fuzzy when you first get it, but after 10 minutes it'll be in the case and unlikely to be looked at again, and only the real performance is what determines the card. It's just some bells and whistles that nvidia use to try to justify their ridiculous prices.

Lionheart · Mar 24, 2010

Thanx for posting this up Mussels, physics never interested me anyways

brandonwh64 · Mar 24, 2010

Mussels!!!!!! High Five Post!!!!

phanbuey · Mar 24, 2010

physX is an interesting idea... but the fact that it is proprietary will kill it.

Doesn't DX 11 have some sort of GFX physics built in? I think once a standard adapts physics on gfx hardware it will really take off - as it is a great idea, and considering AMD's cards have a bazillion simple shaders - it might work well.

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

phanbuey said:
physX is an interesting idea... but the fact that it is proprietary will kill it.

Doesn't DX 11 have some sort of GFX physics built in? I think once a standard adapts physics on gfx hardware it will really take off - as it is a great idea, and considering AMD's cards have a bazillion simple shaders - it might work well.

DirectX 11 does not have a physics engine built in, however it does have DirectCompute, which is an open version of nvidias Cuda/ATI's stream. If someone writes physics for DirectCompute, then bam - all DX10 (and up) cards have access to a unified physics engine.

brandonwh64 · Mar 24, 2010

If they are going to do this physx thing then instead of working on certain games, it should be work on EVERY game no matter who makes it.

Bjorn_Of_Iceland · Mar 24, 2010

Mussels said:
Good work on actually reading the first post, where i point out that it wont work >.<

BC2 and borderlands dont support hardware physX. I'm not sure on metro - i've not played it, and its new enough its possible its not on the list. There is a complete list, from nvidias site, where only 15 games are listed - these are the only game titles that get hardware PhysX support (with the exception of some brand spanking new games that arent listed yet, not that i'm aware of any)

BC2 and Bordelands definitely does not. Metro 2033 does though.

Here is a vid comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt8DEEEMTHw#movie_player
Nothing too dramatic though.. in fact you cant see difference at all except for "pebbles".

Still the best implementation of hardware Physix is Batman AA for me.

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:
BC2 and Bordelands definitely does not. Metro 2033 does though.

Here is a vid comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt8DEEEMTHw#movie_player
Nothing too dramatic though.. in fact you cant see difference at all except for "pebbles".

Still the best implementation of hardware Physix is Batman AA for me.

and as always, the PhysX in batman AA has very little to do with Physics itself - its just eye candy, and most of it would work without physx, they literally just turn 'debris' off if you dont have PhysX.

phanbuey · Mar 24, 2010

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:
BC2 and Bordelands definitely does not. Metro 2033 does though.

Here is a vid comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt8DEEEMTHw#movie_player
Nothing too dramatic though.. in fact you cant see difference at all except for "pebbles".

Still the best implementation of hardware Physix is Batman AA for me.

yeah me too I really liked it in Batman... i think a unified direct compute - what mussels mentioned will make it worthwhile for game devs to actually use the technology and more quality games will actually use it.

Right now its not worth to put in the time and effort to render 'extra pebbles' and have to use the physX technology, thus adding another layer of complexity, where more can go wrong. Extra pebbles and flow cloths are nice and all...

Mussels · Mar 24, 2010

looking at that youtube link, all i can help but see is this:

PhysX off seems to deliberately look worse. Theres a weird bubble-blur effect to simulate the 'gas' coming out the end of the gun at 1 minute in, whereas the physX on version gets a 'cloud'

Now tell me, why on earth do we need super accurate clouds of gas? The only other difference in the shot is that a few small amounts of debris collect on the floor - and if they're anything like GRAW2 and mirrors edge, they likely fade away in 20 seconds anyway.

1:30: grenades. all it does is add random debris into the explosions and a bigger/longer lasting
cloud of smoke (i'm seeing a trend here...)

If those were the differences between say, DX9 and DX11 in a game - you can bet your ass people would be screaming about how useless it is. Since its an Nvidia tech, people dont seem to care? thats the part that confuses me. Debris is hardly a feature i'd pay for in 16 games (15 in list + metro)

phanbuey · Mar 24, 2010

Mussels said:
looking at that youtube link, all i can help but see is this:

PhysX off seems to deliberately look worse. Theres a weird bubble-blur effect to simulate the 'gas' coming out the end of the gun at 1 minute in, whereas the physX on version gets a 'cloud'

Now tell me, why on earth do we need super accurate clouds of gas? The only other difference in the shot is that a few small amounts of debris collect on the floor - and if they're anything like GRAW2 and mirrors edge, they likely fade away in 20 seconds anyway.

1:30: grenades. all it does is add random debris into the explosions and a bigger/longer lasting
cloud of smoke (i'm seeing a trend here...)

If those were the differences between say, DX9 and DX11 in a game - you can bet your ass people would be screaming about how useless it is. Since its an Nvidia tech, people dont seem to care? thats the part that confuses me. Debris is hardly a feature i'd pay for in 16 games (15 in list + metro)

The idea is that it is a different way of rendering debree... and yeah, people will pay for the smallest, most minute improvements in gaming quality - nvidia tech or not. And for games like GTA, mode debree would be awesome.

I mean what the hell was dx10? to me the difference was fancy water and better ambient lighting. And look how many ppl bought DX10 cards way back when because they were dx10. This is no different.

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

Processor	R7 5800x3D
Motherboard	MSI x570 Tomahawk
Cooling	XSPC Raystorm Edge,EK QS P420M,EK D5pwm Revo Res
Memory	32gb Corsair Vengeance RT 3600 cl16
Video Card(s)	Zotac 3070ti Amp Extreme
Storage	Samsung 980pro 1tb x2
Display(s)	MSI MPG321QRF QD
Case	Corsair 7000D
Power Supply	EVGA 1000 P2
Mouse	G900
Keyboard	Corsair k60 RGB PRO
Software	Win 11

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

System Name	"The Triple Trader"
Processor	I7 920 D0@3.8 1.175v
Motherboard	Asus P6t Deluxe V2
Cooling	Prolimatech Megalahems 2x 1800 rpm 27 Dba
Memory	3x 2GB Mushkin enhanced Balckline 1600mhz 7-8-7-24
Video Card(s)	Saphire 5870(6) 2GB
Storage	2x 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black
Display(s)	3x 24" dell u2410 1920 x 1200 (eyefinity)
Case	Thermaltake Element G
Audio Device(s)	HT Omega Claro plus
Power Supply	Corsair 850w
Software	Win7 64 bit
Benchmark Scores	max stable 4.2 Ghz stable at 1.35v at 78C max semi-stable 4.494 Ghz at 1.4v (i don't want to put

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

System Name	Primary\|Secondary\|Poweredge r410\|Dell XPS\|SteamDeck
Processor	i7 11700k\|i7 9700k\|2 x E5620 \|i5 5500U\|Zen 2 4c/8t
Memory	32GB DDR4\|16GB DDR4\|16GB DDR4\|32GB ECC DDR3\|8GB DDR4\|16GB LPDDR5
Video Card(s)	RX 7800xt\|RX 6700xt \|On-Board\|On-Board\|8 RDNA 2 CUs
Storage	2TB m.2\|512GB SSD+1TB SSD\|2x256GBSSD 2x2TBGB\|256GB sata\|512GB nvme
Display(s)	50" 4k TV \| Dell 27" \|22" \|3.3"\|7"
VR HMD	Samsung Odyssey+ \| Oculus Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 Pro\|Windows 10 Pro\|Windows 10 Home\| Server 2012 r2\|Windows 10 Pro

System Name	Quantumville™
Processor	Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard	Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling	Noctua NH-D14
Memory	16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB \| WD Black 4TB \| WD Blue 6TB
Display(s)	ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) \| Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case	Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s)	Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply	Corsair AX1600i
Mouse	Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard	Yes
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	Bobzilla the second
Processor	AMD Phenom II 940
Motherboard	Asus M3A76-CM
Cooling	3*120mm case fans
Memory	4GB 1066GHz DDR2 Kingston HyperX
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Radeon HD5870 1GB
Storage	Seagate 7200RPM 500GB
Display(s)	samsung T220HD
Case	Guardian 921
Power Supply	OCZ MODXSTREAM Pro 700w (2*25A 12v rail)
Software	Windows 7 Beta
Benchmark Scores	19753 3dmark06 15826 3dmark vantage 38.4Fps crysis benchmarking tool (1680x1050, 4xAA)

System Name	Boomer Master Race
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7735HS APU
Motherboard	BareBones Mini PC MB
Cooling	Mini PC Cooling
Memory	Crucial 32GB 4800MHz
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon 680M 8GB IGPU
Storage	Crucial 500GB M.2 SSD + 2TB Ext HDD
Display(s)	Sony 4K Bravia X85J 43Inch TV 120Hz
Case	Beelink Mini PC Chassis
Audio Device(s)	Built In Realtek Digital Audio HD
Power Supply	120w Power Brick
Mouse	Logitech G203 Lightsync
Keyboard	Atrix RGB Slim Keyboard
VR HMD	( ◔ ʖ̯ ◔ )
Software	Windows 10 Home 64bit
Benchmark Scores	Don't do them anymore.

Processor	13700KF Undervolted @ 5.6/ 5.5, 4.8Ghz Ring 200W PL1
Motherboard	MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling	Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 w/ Arctic P12 Fans
Memory	48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 FE
Storage	2x 2TB WDC SN850, 1TB Samsung 960 prr
Display(s)	Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case	SLIGER S620
Audio Device(s)	Yes
Power Supply	Corsair SF750
Mouse	Xlite V2
Keyboard	RoyalAxe
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

System Name	Thakk
Processor	i7 6700k @ 4.5Ghz
Motherboard	Gigabyte G1 Z170N ITX
Cooling	H55 AIO
Memory	32GB DDR4 3100 c16
Video Card(s)	Zotac RTX3080 Trinity
Storage	Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD / Intel 250GB SSD / Samsung Pro 512 SSD / 3TB Seagate SV32
Display(s)	Acer Predator X34 100hz IPS Gsync / HTC Vive
Case	QBX
Audio Device(s)	Realtek ALC1150 > Creative Gigaworks T40 > AKG Q701
Power Supply	Corsair SF600
Mouse	Logitech G900
Keyboard	Ducky Shine TKL MX Blue + Vortex PBT Doubleshots
Software	Windows 10 64bit
Benchmark Scores	http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12108888

Details on Nvidia PhysX - please read

Freshwater Moderator

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

Freshwater Moderator

New Member

Freshwater Moderator

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

Overclocked quantum bit

Eat, sleep, game!

Freshwater Moderator

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

Freshwater Moderator

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

New Member

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

Freshwater Moderator

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

Freshwater Moderator

Freshwater Moderator