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Charlie Demerijan attacks AMD!!

the54thvoid

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"What they didn't take into account, or more likely did and ignored it for marketing reasons, is that the 5 in 5870 has been supplanted with a 6 as in 6870. That generation advance usually comes with a 2x leap in shader count, performance, and everything else. The 6870 is not a 2x advance over the 5870, it is actually slower."

I stopped reading here, because he's an idiot.

Compare it to 5770 ploz.

Or cards of the same price.
 
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6870/6850=midrange.....
 
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Obviously he hasn't read any reviews or cares more about naming schemes than architectures and it's position on the price table...
The leaked AMD slide clearly explained this.
 
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I thought it was common knowledge that he's wrong about 110% of the time. :ohwell:
 

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Folks this goes to show you that he was never pro AMD. Take it for what it is. Besides, this isn't the first time he's spoke his mind about AMD either (although it's been awhile).
 
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Charlie Demerijan is a dope and his articles should be banned from this website forever.

Anyone else getting sick of this whole naming scheme debate? If you the consumer go out and buy a product (especially a computer part) without looking into it before hand, than that's your prerogative.

I feel as if some people around here work for consumer groups or something?
 

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For those wondering why the 5700 series still exist, read here.
5700 is a going concern, partners and OEM's still want it; Barts is not a replacement for Juniper so you can't give it a name that would indicate that. Not every product stack is nicely going to align to everyone's worldview of how things ar supposed to be and you have to make choices based on that; there was never going to be a clean solution no matter what you do. When you look back at the history of the series, though, this is actually the most consistent, it unfortuante that the inconsistency was the 5800, but that decision had already been made when the roadmap changes for NI were underway.

And there is nothing about making it look attractive to 5800 users, I simply do not see how that works. Absolutely this is a good path for 4800 users - it sits in the same bracket of products and makes a great upgrade for this users holding out on the first gen of DX11 and looking for something in a similar price bracket.
 

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For those that are again shrilling hysterically "Charlie's got it wrong again OMG!!! :eek:" try putting aside your stupid anti Charlie bias for once and understand what he's telling you. :rolleyes:

Yes, he's correct here, the parts should have been called the 67xx range, it's really bloody obvious. They are mid-range for the new generation so should have a 67xx number to fit in with the logical numbering scheme that AMD created some time back now and the detailed explanation is all in the article, so I won't repeat it here.

This is marketing bullshit from AMD and the only thing less bad here is that AMD haven't done quite such a hatchet job as nvidia or Intel.

EDIT
Charlie Demerijan is a dope and his articles should be banned from this website forever.
Saw this after I posted and is exactly the hysteria I'm talking about. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't give you the right to ban it. End of.
 
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That guy must be an idiot? o_O
 
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For those that are again shrilling hysterically "Charlie's got it wrong again OMG!!! :eek:" try putting aside your stupid anti Charlie bias for once and understand what he's telling you. :rolleyes:

Yes, he's correct here, the parts should have been called the 67xx range, it's really bloody obvious. They are mid-range for the new generation so should have a 67xx number to fit in with the logical numbering scheme that AMD created some time back now and the detailed explanation is all in the article, so I won't repeat it here.

This is marketing bullshit from AMD and the only thing less bad here is that AMD haven't done quite such a hatchet job as nvidia or Intel.

The parts should have been called the 6700 series IF they didn't change the whole system. Except they did. More accurately, they're "going back to where they came from". the x800 series being the high end in any generation is a recent development.

In 2005 they firmly established a comprehensive naming scheme with the X1000 series. X1300 + suffix--->X1400 + suffix--->X1600 + suffix --->X1800 + suffix--->X1900 + suffix.

The next generation was the first "HD" generation, and the x300 and x800 series were skipped. HD 2400 + suffix--->HD 2600 + suffix--->HD 2900 + suffix.

The "x800 series as high end" scheme started with the HD 3000 series. HD 3400 (3450, 3470)--->HD 3600 (3650, 3690) --->HD 3800 (3850, 3870, 3870X2). This is also the generation wherein ATi opted for a dual-gpu solution as their "ultimate" card in the series, instead of focusing on making a single-gpu as the "top-of-the-series".

The HD 4000 series saw the proliferation of more cards. HD 4300 (4350)--->HD 4500 (4550)--->HD 4600 (4650, 4670)--->HD 4700 (4770)--->HD 4800 (4830, 4850, 4870, 4890, 4870X2).

The HD 5000 series followed the scheme but "spreading out" the cards even more among the "groupings" to avoid clumping (i.e. the 4800 series with 5 cards). Thus the 5700 now has more than one card (and this would only be the 2nd time there is an x700 series) while the dual-gpu solution was moved to another group (HD 5900) as the 5970.

Now this final point is what boggles me. There weren't really any "violent reactions" towards the 5970's naming. Some even says it's for the better as the "X2" gets dropped. Yet when the 6000 comes wherein the x900 series would be used more (i.e. like in the X1900 and HD 2900 series which obviously predates HD 3800 and HD 4800 series as the "high-end") it's met with downright animosity.

It's quite apparent that using the x900 series in the HD 5000 generation had more than one reason; the HD 6000 generation is already in development even in the preceding months of it's predecessor's launch. The widening of the cards through all the series numbers to avoid the clumping in the x800 series that happened with the 4800's is enough of a sign that this shouldn't have come as a surprise, or done in a whim just a few weeks before launch date.

The existence of the HD 5970 should have been a "flag" already that the top of the line would be the x900 series (again). Of course this would mean that everything else would get a "step down". But if this 6000 series' comprehensive naming scheme would also mean the elimination of a "full" series used with just one card (4500 "series", 4700 "series", 5900 "series", 5500 "series", 5600 "series") and avoiding "clusters" of numerous cards into one grouping (4800 series with 5 cards, 5800 series with 3), it would be for the better.

I would venture a guess that the 6000 generation would still be similar to the 3000/4000 series in naming, with a "wider coverage" through various series. Thus: HD 6400--->HD 6600--->HD 6700 (6750, 6770) --->HD 6800 (6850, 6870)--->HD 6900 (6950, 6970, 6990?).
 
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Charlie Demerijan = Jack Thompson

Of the tech world.
 
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Who doesn't like AMD 6870? Hes a jack off? The cards great not a upgrade for a 5850 or 5870 but it takes less power and less heat plus adds features and is cheaper to build. That allows more people to buy it and AMDs partners to be more profitable which helps AMDs bottom line and our pocket books. I say who cares what you call it as long as your transparent on it's performance. Which AMD has been.
 
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This proves that even a person that knows about IT more than a "normal" person still mistake HD6800 series as high-end...
 

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This proves that even a person that knows about IT more than a "normal" person still mistake HD6800 series as high-end...

Charlie Demerijan doesn't know more about IT then a troglodyte.

 
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For those that are again shrilling hysterically "Charlie's got it wrong again OMG!!! :eek:" try putting aside your stupid anti Charlie bias for once and understand what he's telling you. :rolleyes:

Yes, he's correct here, the parts should have been called the 67xx range, it's really bloody obvious. They are mid-range for the new generation so should have a 67xx number to fit in with the logical numbering scheme that AMD created some time back now and the detailed explanation is all in the article, so I won't repeat it here.

This is marketing bullshit from AMD and the only thing less bad here is that AMD haven't done quite such a hatchet job as nvidia or Intel.

EDIT

Saw this after I posted and is exactly the hysteria I'm talking about. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't give you the right to ban it. End of.


Amd only started uses x700 as midrange cards again recently I thought? ( 4770)

They're shifting everything, it's not that hard to understand all enthusiast cards are x900 gamer cards are x700 main stream is x600

They are using an older naming scheme which was actually used for longer than the one everyone is bitching about.





Also like I said in another thread, NORMAL people don't even care about the names, they probably have no idea what they mean.

These name changes only effect people that DO know things and have come to associate certain naming schemes with certain performance segments.
 
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is it just me or was that article the equivalent of a 9 year old's rant? much of it doesn't make any sense. the 4870 was not twice as fast as the 4770, in fact several games the 4770 beat the 4850. At most the difference between the 4770 and the 4870 is 30%, more typically 15-20%.

And yes ATI has swapped up which number represents their highend gpu several times.

since radeon we've almost always had a 4 digit number attached (except for the orginal radeon itself and the x1800/x1900 series which were technically 5 digit but could be argued for 4 digit)

from there we've had X000/X200 = high end, X500= high end, X700 = high end, X800 = high end and X900 = highend.

the biggest example of exactly what they did here was the change form the 2900XT to the 3870 if a next gen highend naming scheme is supposed to be doubling performance than why did the 3870 perform exactly the same and in some cases slower than the 2900xt?

simple not all generations are about power, some are about fixing things theat didn't work.

in this case we have a midrange name change, X800 = midrange now, deal with it. X900 = high end now and from the highend to the extremist may be conveluted but really how many 5970's sold compared to 5870's? I'm pretty sure the few buying in the extremist bracket can figure it out on their own.

plus if caymen performs similarly to hemlock the 9 is again justified. So really it's just a name change, calm down charlie. lol
 
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wahdangun

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hmmm isn't HD 3870 was SLOWER than HD 2900 ?

btw i'm tired witj all of this, even AMD said that bart was not mean for high end, end of story, if you don't like it don't buy it.

and its not the same as NVDIA because they use exact same chip
 
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He's an idiot, we get it. Now lets just let the thread die, the moron's not worth talking about.

Shit, I just wasted 30 seconds of my life.
 

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Charlie Demerijan = Jack Thompson

Of the tech world.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've never even heard of this assclown, Charlie Demerijan, prior to this thread.

I stopped reading the article after the first sentence. I can get my mindless drivel from the TV. :shadedshu
 
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hmmm isn't HD 3870 was SLOWER than HD 2900 ?

btw i'm tired witj all of this, even AMD said that bart was not mean for high end, end of story, if you don't like it don't buy it.

and its not the same as NVDIA because they use exact same chip

The 3870 and the 2900 XT weren't "like-for-like". While the 2900 was the "ultimate" card in the 2000 series, it's the 3870X2 that was the ultimate card in the 3000 series, not the 3870.



The situation back then is the reverse of what happened right now.



3870X2, lower number (x800 instead of x900) but still 24% better than the HD 2900 XT.
 
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You no I don't know why everyone is making such a big thing about the name..... for Christ sake it's a name. Who gives a rat's ass?
I mean seriously.... sure it's a change from their normal naming scheme but it is just a change and AMD/ATI felt that it was warranted. I think people just don't like change that is all.

Sure the change could cause marketing problems for ATI/AMD. If that is the case they will learn their lesson and probably move back to the old names by next generation.
Even if it causes problems for themselves.... what does it matter to use. (with the other exception of having to explain the naming scheme to every noob who is on the net over and over again.)

My whole point is that I believe others and charlie are making way to much of the naming change.
They are great cards.... just buy one and play with it.... we shouldn't really care if AMD changed to name to the 68XX series or if they changed it to the new "AMD Radeon 68 Flaming Elephant bung hole".

If it plays good who cares AMD will learn.
 
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