My overclock: Comments from the experienced w/ DualCore AMD Athlon64 x2 CPU users...

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

See subject-line/title above, first, & please - DO comment if you think you have some ways for me to do this better (given the CPU-z 1.35 data I am about to output here next):

I now have overclocked my CPU (@ last/finally) & use a CoolerMaster Heatsink/fan/phasechange heatpipe combination cooler...

It's doing the job alright, even o/c'd to the utmost possible "max" I could pull off here, so far!

Runs around 40C - 45C iirc, under moderate loads, & during a 90F temp ambient heatwave we're having this week (HOT AS HECK!).

(AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+, reading @ 2592.5mhz (up from stock 2400mhz) via CPU-z 1.35)

I also had to 'drop' my RAM back to DDR-333 levels, rather than DDR-400, & still may have to try to "tighten" the timings on it, which I dislike but needs doing - hassle is, if I "push" too hard, it locks up the machine & I have to go "defaults" again & redo it all...

I am SURE most of you know what I am talking about here (the hassle involved).

(That memory "slowdown" & "loosening of timings" IS the only part of o/c'ing I don't like, but it IS optimization to-the-max, in that I had to "PULL" from one area (memory) to gain in another (cpu))

For gaming? It makes ABSOLUTE sense though... o/c the vidcard, & the CPU, and you gain more than speeding up memory (imo @ least!).

Anyhow/anyways - the data!

The RAM timings I use (per CPU-z 1.35) are currently:

CPU:

Core Speed: 2592.5 (fluctuates +/- .2)
Multiplier: 12x
HTT: 216 MHz

Memory:

Frequency = 172.8
FSB: DRAM = CPU/15
CAS# Latency = 3.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# Dleay = 4 clocks
RAS# Precharge = 3 clocks
Cycle Time (Tras) = 6 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (Trc) = 11 clocks
Command Rate = 2T
DRAM Idle Timer = 16 clocks

&

SPD:

Frequency = 200mhz
CAS# Latency = 2.0
RAS# to CAS# = 3
RAS# Precharge = 2
Tras = 6

The air-cooled + phasechange setup I have here (on both CPU & Vidcard) seem to do the job well... even o/c'd on both, as far as I could go @ this point & running stable!

So, given that data? Can ANY of you point-out, via YOUR experience w/ this CPU family, anything I ought to shoot for, especially in the area of memory timings "tightening"...?

THANKS!

APK

P.S.=> LOL, what blows me away is, you can combine a variety of permutations/possibles, because of multiplier & clockrate combinations for the memory AND the CPU! I have no idea if I hit the "BEST" one is all...

Above all - Thanks for info. & input here fellas, you're my resource on this now! apk

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

for a DC thats pretty good, you wont see many "normal" X2 CPUs going beyond 2.6GHz. If you had a DC opty on the other hand....they are tending to do 2.8GHz+

on the other hand your ram seems pretty crappy and its deffinately crippling what you can do. Mushkin have some nice cheap (and decent) DDR500, so if your looking to replace your ram deffinately give the DDR500 a look

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Ketxxx said:
for a DC thats pretty good, you wont see many "normal" X2 CPUs going beyond 2.6GHz. If you had a DC opty on the other hand....they are tending to do 2.8GHz+

Thanks man, especially considering it's holding STABLE in a "heatwave" the U.S. is experiencing this week (all across nation 48 states over 90 F temp)....

It was a PAIN bigtime, finding the RIGHT combination for the CPU stuff... I will be back w/ the multipliers & rates I used in my BIOS on my next post!

(I figure you guys might need it, to advise me on those damn RAM timings! My bad for NOT outputting it here imo!)

It's Corsair Matched Pair (2x256mb RAM sticks) "basic/value" type memory (nothing special in other words, std. DDR-400)...

* So, that said? Let me get back to you shortly w/ my BIOS data settings on CPU clockrate & multipliers, etc. et al!

APK

P.S.=> Do my games run faster? I would say "YES, absolutely" & for the "optimization push/pull" from memory to CPU done in o/c'ing a rig for gaming (this may even help my F@H times as well possibly, I don't know). Between this, & "Coolbits.reg" o/c'ing my vidcard (GeForce 7900 GTX OC, also phasechange + air cooled), definitely faster gaming!

(Anyhow - I think w/ your guys' help, maybe even faster - because you all have experience here!)

Yes, it is "unique per system" to a good extent due to diff. parts we use, but cannot hurt to ask you guys imo, you ARE the "voices of experience" & all that... brb w/ more data (CPU-BIOS wise)... apk

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

see me edited post

your ram is deffinately crippling you. Probably the biggest performance gain you can have with memory isnt out and out speed or the lowest possible primary timings, but the best possible secondary timings which have a part in memory write. If you can crack past 3GB\s you should notice quite a substantial perf boost, especially in loading times for games.

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Ketxxx said:
see me edited post your ram is deffinately crippling you.

No doubt, I believe it... I'd bet the RAM you suggest wouldn't possibly require "stepping down" the DDR-400 to DDR-333 rates!

Ketxxx said:
Probably the biggest performance gain you can have with memory isnt out and out speed or the lowest possible primary timings, but the best possible secondary timings which have a part in memory write.

Aha, so... I'd STILL have to "step it down" from DDR-400 (or, in this case DDR-500?) rates, to DDR-333 then?

* Thanks for info. (learning as I go)!

Ketxxx said:
If you can crack past 3GB\s you should notice quite a substantial perf boost, especially in loading times for games.

Sounds good!

(I'll eventually buy that RAM then most likely, but until then? I have to "make do" & get this to it's "BEST" settings if possible)

BRB, with CPU + BIOS multipliers & rates...

APK

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

CPU DATA from CPU-z (if you need BIOS stuff, let me know)

See subject-line/title above first (thanks) & comment (FULL DATA ARRAY FROM CPU-z 1.35, all consolidated here now in 1 post via edit):

CPU:

Core Speed: 2592.5 (fluctuates +/- .2)
Multiplier: 12x
HTT: 216 MHz

Memory:

Frequency = 172.8
FSB: DRAM = CPU/15
CAS# Latency = 3.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# Dleay = 4 clocks
RAS# Precharge = 3 clocks
Cycle Time (Tras) = 6 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (Trc) = 11 clocks
Command Rate = 2T
DRAM Idle Timer = 16 clocks

&

SPD:

Frequency = 200mhz
CAS# Latency = 2.0
RAS# to CAS# = 3
RAS# Precharge = 2
Tras = 6

* Sufficient?

(If needed on your guys end for commentary, that is)

APK

P.S.=> Again, if you NEED more data (say, from my BIOS)? Do let me know... gracias & thanks for the comments + assist here! apk

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

Nope not in the slightest. To crack 3GB\s write speeds you need to be able to run a 1:1 ratio, 1T command rate enabled, and the lowest possible set of secondary timings, for example something like 2-2-2-3. Remember, I'm not talking about CAS- TRCD- TRRD- TRAS timings there

ed- if you can get me a A64 tweaker screenie and tell me what bios options you have on your board i can start suggesting some timings u can try

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Ketxxx said:
Nope not in the slightest.

WoW... that sounds AWESOME actually!

(To NOT have to "step it down" from DDR500/400 type rates, down to DDR-333 as I had to)

Ketxxx said:
To crack 3GB\s write speeds you need to be able to run a 1:1 ratio, 1T command rate enabled, and the lowest possible set of secondary timings, for example something like 2-2-2-3. Remember, I'm not talking about CAS- TRCD- TRRD- TRAS timings there

Ah... now THAT is the data I wanted to see!

* Heh, as far as hardware? It appears I could use better, more o/c'able RAM!

As far as "fiddling" w/ the RAM timings I do have now though, anyone o/c an Athlon 64 x2 (of any variety) w/ diff. ones & achieve results that REALLY rock, that I might be able to apply?

Same w/ CPU stuff too! Thanks...

EDIT PART: What is "A64 tweaker"?

APK

P.S.=> That CPU data help any? NOTE - I edited ALL posts w/ the data in them, so they show it all from CPU-z 1.35 (CPU data, & memory stuff too).

Comments are appreciated, as you guys ARE the "voices-of-experience" in THIS area, & my teachers now... apk

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

Erm, in all honesty, no, not really. Thats why I asked for the A64 tweaker screenie

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

What is "A64 tweaker"?

* A software of somekind? If so, where to obtain??

(Download URL???)

THANKS!

APK

KJY9 · Jul 18, 2006

Ketxxx said:
...1T command rate enabled...

That will help him the most from where he's at right now.
When I was running my 4400+, going from 2t to 1t jumped my mem benches immensely.

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

Alec§taar said:
What is "A64 tweaker"?

* A software of somekind? If so, where to obtain??

(Download URL???)

THANKS!

APK

linky for A64 tweaker, never leave home without it

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

OK, I see the "1T" suggestion & know where it is in my BIOS

See subject-line/title above, first, & another question from last page:

1.) This "1T" command-rate thing - can this RAM I use "pull it off"?

(EDITED OUT QUESTION ON "A64 Tweaker", got it now (Thanks Ketxxx) & see what you mean, brb w/ screenshot of its data)

I ask, because again, if I screw up? It tends to "lock up my rig" @ bootup & I have to redo it all again, lol... you've all probably BEEN there & know how THAT can be... a pain!

* Thanks (learning as I go here)!

APK

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

A64 Tweaker software screenshot data requested by Ketxxx

See subject-line/title above, & this photograph/screenshot:

* Above all, thanks for the suggestions/help/pointers guys!

APK

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

Right ok lets start with tref latency, start by adjusting that to 3120 15.6us, or as A64 simply displays it as, 200MHz 15.6us.

As for a full set of timings, I'll list them in the order A64 does. 3-16-16-4-4-8-3-3-2-3.

Also try adjusting the idle cycle limit to 0 or 256, turn dynamic idle cycle counter off. Disable 2T command rate, but leave this till last.

Adjusting the async latency to 8ns should also help. Lastly you might want to try a weak instead of normal drive strength. A bit generic I know, but I'm a Mushy tech I dunno how corsair\adata spd program their modules

Also dont make ALL these changes at the same time, start with just the async latency and if thats all good, then start by tweaking the other timings.

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Ketxxx said:
Right ok lets start with tref latency, start by adjusting that to 3120 15.6us, or as A64 simply displays it as, 200MHz 15.6us.

As for a full set of timings, I'll list them in the order A64 does. 3-16-16-4-4-8-3-3-2-3.

Also try adjusting the idle cycle limit to 0 or 256, turn dynamic idle cycle counter off. Disable 2T command rate, but leave this till last.

Adjusting the async latency to 8ns should also help. Lastly you might want to try a weak instead of normal drive strength. A bit generic I know, but I'm a Mushy tech I dunno how corsair\adata spd program their modules

Also dont make ALL these changes at the same time, start with just the async latency and if thats all good, then start by tweaking the other timings.

Wild!

(You certainly DO "know your stuff" in this area!)

QUESTION:

Does the "A64 Tweaker" program write these values to BIOS or something, out of the Win32 GUI RPL3/Ring3 mode of operation?

* Thanks for info.!

APK

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Excellent, & I will proceed in the manner/order you describe!

See subject-line/title above, & screenshot below:

* Gracias above all else... I learned a "new thing" today!

APK

P.S.=> Again, I will apply them in the SPECIFIC order you suggest!

Once more though - A QUESTION:

Does this apply the DIRECTLY from Ring3/RPL3/UserMode Win32 GUI operation directly to my BIOS?

Also, does it also require a "reboot" (I imagine it may)... apk

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

No reboot needed, A64 tweaker seems to interact directly with the bios, but the settings are not applied in the boards bios. you need to save the config and have it load with a64 tweaker at windows boot. let me know how the settings go, and if all is stable with a 1:1 ratio, then we can start work on tweaking the timings.

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Ketxxx said:
No reboot needed, A64 tweaker seems to interact directly with the bios, but the settings are not applied in the boards bios.

Aha, so... this is like AMD/ASUS "overclocking" tools then!

(Software "emulation" basically, interacting w/ drivers for AMD, & possibly "re-parameterizing them": Has to be this way, imo!)

QUESTION: That all said - If it works stable, may I apply them IN THE BIOS instead, once they prove "stable" & all that?

Ketxxx said:
you need to save the config and have it load with a64 tweaker at windows boot.

Ah, got ya/will do... so far, I applied them ALL, but haven't "saved the config" yet & did the "apply @ bootup" yet!

Ketxxx said:
let me know how the settings go, and if all is stable with a 1:1 ratio, then we can start work on tweaking the timings.

Aha, ok... now, on the 1:1 ratio part - what setting is THAT one on the screenshots I put out?

(Haven't saved the 2T to 1T yet either, waiting on that)

APK

P.S.=> Waiting on results of questions prior to save, apply @ bootup, & reboot so these all take @ next Windows login/system bootup! apk

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

MEMCLK frequency

change that to 200, and adjust the tref to 200 15.6us at the same time.

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Ketxxx said:
MEMCLK frequency change that to 200, and adjust the tref to 200 15.6us at the same time.

Got it, saved to .a64 file...

* If this works-out stable, once more: Can I apply it DIRECTLY to the BIOS, instead of using this AMD/NForce drivers reparameterization software (that's my guess as to HOW it works & all that)...

APK

P.S.=> AND, if NOT stable? Safemode reboot can help me "undo" this, correct?? TIA! apk

bbriand · Jul 18, 2006

Yeah dropping my Command Timings from 2T to 1T doubled a lot of my memory scores. Its worth trying

Bill

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

You should be able to apply as many settings as the BIOS has available without issues yeah.

Ketxxx · Jul 18, 2006

bbriand said:
Yeah dropping my Command Timings from 2T to 1T doubled a lot of my memory scores. Its worth trying

Bill

Technically speaking, your not "dropping" when going to 1T, your increasing

Alec§taar · Jul 18, 2006

Well, got the 2T to 1T (increase/decrease, lol, whatever) going & working so far

See subject-line/title above:

So far, the 2T to 1T works, which is good (from what you guys say)!

Something wasn't though & "locked me up" once the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE startup area 'fired'... no biggie, because a "SAFE MODE" bootup got me past it to undo it there (by using the A64 Tweaker tool menu option to remove startup settings).

NOTE - You can't use F8 bootup "Last Known Good Configuration" to undo it either, something to be aware of, if it hangs you up etc.!

The 2T to 1T is NOW COMMITTED TO MY BIOS memory settings! It works...

It's going to be a BIT of "Trial & Error" but nice part is, if you don't do them @ the BIOS LEVEL first? You can "prototype" here first, & use what does work by eventually committing it to the BIOS when you find the right mix!

(Imo @ least, this is HOW I am going to pursue this, using A64 Tweaker as a "prototyping tool" more-or-less!)

APK

P.S.=> Thanks for the info., because of this, I can do this @ will, & not "Wipe out my BIOS" having to reset it to DEFAULTS all over again, & losing what little I gained o/c'ing thusfar on the CPU end, & can 're-engineer' my memory timings now too, w/out "undoing" all else whilst I experiment! apk

Processor	DualCore AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+ (o/c 2801mhz STABLE (Ketxxx, POGE, Tatty One, ME))
Motherboard	ASUS A8N-SLI Premium (PCIe x16, x4, x1)
Cooling	PhaseChange Coolermaster CM754/939 (fan/heatsink), Thermalright heatspreaders + fan built on (RAM)
Memory	512mb PC-3200 DDR400 (set DDR-33 for o/c) by Corsair (matched pair, 2x256mb) 200.1/200mhz
Video Card(s)	BFG GeForce 7900 GTX OC 512mb GDDR3 ram (o/c manually to 686 core/865 memory) - PhaseChange cooled
Storage	Dual "Raptor X" 16mb 10krpm/RAID 0 Promise EX8350 x4 PCIe 128mb & Intel IO chip/CENATEK RocketDrive
Display(s)	SONY 19" Trinitron MultiScan 400ps 1600x1200 75hz refresh 32-bit color
Case	Antec Super-LanBoy (aluminum baby-tower w/ lower front & upper rear cooling exhaust fans)
Audio Device(s)	RealTek AC97 onboard mobo stereo sound (Altec Lansing ACS-45 speakers - 10 yrs. still running!)
Power Supply	Antec 500w ATX 2.0 "SmartPower" powersupply
Software	Windows Server 2003 SP #1 fully patched, & massively tuned/tweaked to-the-max (plus latest drivers)

System Name	Ravens Talon
Processor	AMD R7 3700X @ 4.4GHz 1.3v
Motherboard	MSI X570 Tomahawk
Cooling	Modded 240mm Coolermaster Liquidmaster
Memory	2x16GB Klevv BoltX 3600MHz & custom timings
Video Card(s)	Powercolor 6800XT Red Devil
Storage	250GB Asgard SSD, 1TB Integral SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s)	27" BenQ Mobiuz
Case	NZXT Phantom 530
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar DX 7.1 PCI-E
Power Supply	1000w Supernova
Software	Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores	Fast. I don't need epeen.

Processor	DualCore AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+ (o/c 2801mhz STABLE (Ketxxx, POGE, Tatty One, ME))
Motherboard	ASUS A8N-SLI Premium (PCIe x16, x4, x1)
Cooling	PhaseChange Coolermaster CM754/939 (fan/heatsink), Thermalright heatspreaders + fan built on (RAM)
Memory	512mb PC-3200 DDR400 (set DDR-33 for o/c) by Corsair (matched pair, 2x256mb) 200.1/200mhz
Video Card(s)	BFG GeForce 7900 GTX OC 512mb GDDR3 ram (o/c manually to 686 core/865 memory) - PhaseChange cooled
Storage	Dual "Raptor X" 16mb 10krpm/RAID 0 Promise EX8350 x4 PCIe 128mb & Intel IO chip/CENATEK RocketDrive
Display(s)	SONY 19" Trinitron MultiScan 400ps 1600x1200 75hz refresh 32-bit color
Case	Antec Super-LanBoy (aluminum baby-tower w/ lower front & upper rear cooling exhaust fans)
Audio Device(s)	RealTek AC97 onboard mobo stereo sound (Altec Lansing ACS-45 speakers - 10 yrs. still running!)
Power Supply	Antec 500w ATX 2.0 "SmartPower" powersupply
Software	Windows Server 2003 SP #1 fully patched, & massively tuned/tweaked to-the-max (plus latest drivers)

System Name	Ravens Talon
Processor	AMD R7 3700X @ 4.4GHz 1.3v
Motherboard	MSI X570 Tomahawk
Cooling	Modded 240mm Coolermaster Liquidmaster
Memory	2x16GB Klevv BoltX 3600MHz & custom timings
Video Card(s)	Powercolor 6800XT Red Devil
Storage	250GB Asgard SSD, 1TB Integral SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s)	27" BenQ Mobiuz
Case	NZXT Phantom 530
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar DX 7.1 PCI-E
Power Supply	1000w Supernova
Software	Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores	Fast. I don't need epeen.

Processor	DualCore AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+ (o/c 2801mhz STABLE (Ketxxx, POGE, Tatty One, ME))
Motherboard	ASUS A8N-SLI Premium (PCIe x16, x4, x1)
Cooling	PhaseChange Coolermaster CM754/939 (fan/heatsink), Thermalright heatspreaders + fan built on (RAM)
Memory	512mb PC-3200 DDR400 (set DDR-33 for o/c) by Corsair (matched pair, 2x256mb) 200.1/200mhz
Video Card(s)	BFG GeForce 7900 GTX OC 512mb GDDR3 ram (o/c manually to 686 core/865 memory) - PhaseChange cooled
Storage	Dual "Raptor X" 16mb 10krpm/RAID 0 Promise EX8350 x4 PCIe 128mb & Intel IO chip/CENATEK RocketDrive
Display(s)	SONY 19" Trinitron MultiScan 400ps 1600x1200 75hz refresh 32-bit color
Case	Antec Super-LanBoy (aluminum baby-tower w/ lower front & upper rear cooling exhaust fans)
Audio Device(s)	RealTek AC97 onboard mobo stereo sound (Altec Lansing ACS-45 speakers - 10 yrs. still running!)
Power Supply	Antec 500w ATX 2.0 "SmartPower" powersupply
Software	Windows Server 2003 SP #1 fully patched, & massively tuned/tweaked to-the-max (plus latest drivers)

Processor	Pent D 930@4.0Ghz
Motherboard	Asus P5PL2
Cooling	Asus VR Guard P5P2
Memory	2Gb-Corsair XMS2 PC5400 DDR2 667
Video Card(s)	eVGA Geforce 6800GS 256Mb
Storage	SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series 250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s
Display(s)	19" WS & 17" Both LCD
Case	Lian Li PC-V880A
Audio Device(s)	SB Audigy 2
Software	Dual Boot XP/Vista

Processor	AMD 3800+ X2
Motherboard	ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe
Cooling	AC Freezer 64 Pro, ATI Silencer 5 (Rev 2)
Memory	2x512 OCZ Premium 3200
Video Card(s)	C3D Radeon x800 GTO
Storage	2xWD SATA2 80gigs (RAID0) + WD 40gigs PATA
Display(s)	19" LCD
Case	Sunbeam Transformer 21" ATX
Audio Device(s)	SB Audigy2LE + Onboard(only for Teamspeak)
Power Supply	ThermalTake T2 430 Watt
Software	All Kinds

My overclock: Comments from the experienced w/ DualCore AMD Athlon64 x2 CPU users...

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