USB/Pagefile Questions

gamer210 · Jul 24, 2006

I have a few questions about USB in general. I have an Seagate 160GB external hdd (FAT32), and I was wondering if moving the page file to the external disk would garner any extra performance gains. I was also wondering if there is a difference in the transer rate from the USB->USB and HDD->USB. I was thinking about using HdTach on my external drive, so I think I'll give that a try.

randomperson21 · Jul 24, 2006

i'd run hdtach on it first.

i had a fujitsu laptop hdd running thru usb at one time, but that was a heck of a lot slower than my desktop setup.

Personally, i don't see any reason to offload it to an external device, unless you are running out of space on your internal hdd, or if your internal is (for some reason) slower than your external...

Demon_82 · Jul 24, 2006

11 out of 10 times the internal HDD will have better access speed, and better sustained transmission rate than the USB based one. Have for sure that if it wasn't true newer HDDs will not connect through S-ATA, but through USB. Unless you have a partly damaged or extremely old HDD, the performance should be much lower with the USB disk.

gamer210 · Jul 24, 2006

UPDATE:

I ran HdTach on the external. The results were pathetic. I uploaded some pics. I also threw in my pny attache (1GB). I thought my results would be a little better than this.

randomperson21 · Jul 24, 2006

yep, its usb...

exscalibur99 · Jul 24, 2006

I read on some web that when u move your pagefile to a flash drive disk, u will gain an extra performance... is this true?

randomperson21 · Jul 24, 2006

personally, i doubt it.
most usb flash disks are extremely slow, in the range of 10-40MB/s transfer rate. my Cruzer Micro thumbdrive gets only 10MB/s

In comparison, a decent internal hdd gets roughly 50MB/s. A good raid setup gets far more (in the range of 250MB/s on my setup)
btw, these are all read speeds. write speeds are a considerable bit slower.

also, flash memory wears out after so many i/o cycles, so putting your pagefile on a usb flash drive will lower its lifespan.

idk if this is what you read about, but windows vista is supposted to have a "superfetch" feature that uses a usb thumb drive. i guess it caches commonly/recently used files on a usb thumb drive, and uses it as a sort of psuedo-pagefile thingy. not too sure how it works.

Deleted member 3 · Jul 24, 2006

Even if throughput/accestime is better on your USB disk, which it will never be. USB hangs on your CPU a bit more than your internal disk. Don't bother.

infrared · Jul 24, 2006

Scrap the pagefile all-together and buy yourself some decent memory

Deleted member 3 · Jul 25, 2006

infrared said:
Scrap the pagefile all-together and buy yourself some decent memory

And watch programs like photoshop not start anymore.

W1zzard · Jul 25, 2006

usb flash drives have
- too little bandwidth to be fast enough
- access times between 10x faster to 10x slower than hdds
- LIMITED number of write cycles .. typically 100k
- way too high CPU usage on all implementations

Alec§taar · Jul 25, 2006

infrared said:
Scrap the pagefile all-together and buy yourself some decent memory

Doesn't always work that way man, & I hate to "cross you" like this... but, it's fact:

Some apps will demand it, & the Virtual Memory design of these OS' causes it, & mainly because of the cache mgt. (far from perfect, but the general idea since UNIX days, & later VMS days (upon which NT-based OS' are founded) tend to second it).

The generic idea is to let the cache grow & grow, to offset disk I/O slowness/access... good initially, until you hit a BIG app.

Especially apps with HUGE memory requirements.

The cache has to flush, or eat more, to contain the data for programs in a LIFO manner, iirc... you hit it with a BIG app, like a GAME?

It's like being a gambler, with a ton of dough/gangster roll really... sooner or later, you go "Bust" & have to page!

APK

P.S.=> Wiz, with you 110%, & the weakness is bandwidth, even USB 2.0 imo... which is why I do what I do, to "offset" this... & cannot wait for higher bandwidth, via the DDRDrive X1 PCI-e ramdisk, to replace my PCI 2.2 model CENATEK unit...

Sorry to use a gambler analogy, but I spent time in Atlantic City last nite, & earlier this weekend seeing a blue legend in Alvin Bishop (inspiring stuff)... made the money for the DDRDrive x1 PCI-e, but got "kicked" from a casino no less (accused of counting cards... now, why would I do that)

apk

exscalibur99 · Jul 25, 2006

W1zzard said:
usb flash drives have
- too little bandwidth to be fast enough
- access times between 10x faster to 10x slower than hdds
- LIMITED number of write cycles .. typically 100k
- way too high CPU usage on all implementations

yeah thanks 4 d info... I also though so, hmm dunno why they said it a lil faster when using it..

infrared · Jul 25, 2006

Alec§taar said:
I hate to "cross you" like this... but, it's fact:

No probs. I'm not always right :rolleyes:

Alec§taar · Jul 26, 2006

infrared said:
No probs. I'm not always right

Neither am I!

Largely though on this one, you are in this one & perhaps for YOUR use-patterns! Fact is, you may never hit apps or data that cause this for you & are just unaware of exceptions in various apps (DanTheBanjoMan hits one RIGHT on the head in fact, see quote below).

(Don't knock what you said because it MOSTLY applies & for you, it may TOTALLY be right)

BUT, sooner or later?

It goes "BUST" & has to page...

DanTheBanjoman said:
And watch programs like photoshop not start anymore.

DanTheBanjoMan cited a PERFECT example & app that will cause this in fact, on the page prior to this one. He may have "hit this wall" before, & is noting it with a "lab practical" example thereof, of the point he & I are making is all.

It happens:

Especially if you are near limit on what you have loaded @ once programs & data-wise, OR you hit a particular app with HUGE memory requirements (e.g.-> Image editing progs, or even games) OR, the system diskcache has grown to a point where not much RAM is left for anything else... & it pages its content.

It's largely what Virtual Memory based Operating Systems are about really ("Swapping/Paging" to create the illusion of more RAM than you actually have, but I am sure you know this)!

However, if you NEVER hit that or see it? For you it works!

(I do know that Windows WILL "bitch" @ startup & say you lack a pagefile.sys though... & iirc, it forms a temporary one anyhow afaik when you lack one, to protect you against yourself)

APK

P.S.=> As-per-usual though, I have to state this "disclaimer": It all REALLY 'boils-down-to/distills-down-to' how you use your machine & w/ what apps... your use-patterns determine everything really! apk

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USB/Pagefile Questions

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