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Alec§taar

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Ahh the seven layer burrito of networking. Crispy and crunchy on the outside and netwok packety on the inside.


Nothing like a little kick in the net to get someones attention.

LOL!

(Good one)

* I'm going to "pinch that" for my style/repetoire, if you don't mind!

APK
 

KennyT772

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answer this then. how many layers in the internet stack?
 

Alec§taar

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answer this then. how many layers in the internet stack?

For security filterings (edit part - in the WINDOWS world, @ least)?

See last page...

APK

P.S.=> If you mean the "OSI model"? It depends... physical, or software layer?? 7 total, afaik...

Application
Presentation
Session
Transport
Network
DataLink
Physical

apk
 

KennyT772

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no not the osi network model the osi internet model ;)
them damn cisco networking classes are good for somthing...
 

Alec§taar

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no not the osi network model the osi internet model ;)
them damn cisco networking classes are good for somthing...

?

You tell me... I would like to see the diff. here!

APK

P.S.=> I mostly understand this from a programming/OS perspective, not the physical routers layer, etc.! BUT, it's not THAT tough to understand there either... so, run it by me! apk
 

KennyT772

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the internet is all tcp/ip networking and only has a 4 layer stack vs the 7layer networking stack. i cant even remember what is actually in the stacks atm...

ahh here we go

the internet one is app/protocol/interface/medium
 

Alec§taar

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the internet is all tcp/ip networking and only has a 4 layer stack vs the 7layer networking stack. i cant even remember what is actually in the stacks atm...

ahh here we go

the internet one is app/protocol/interface/medium

Thanks, I was NOT aware of the difference, & NOW?

I AM!

:)

* Stronger...

APK
 

KennyT772

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no problem my friend.

some of my friends get annoyed when i call myself a nerd. they always say im not ect ect...but how many 16yr olds have been fixing pcs for 6 years and read an A+ cert book in their free time?
 

Alec§taar

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no problem my friend.

some of my friends get annoyed when i call myself a nerd. they always say im not ect ect...but how many 16yr olds have been fixing pcs for 6 years and read an A+ cert book in their free time?

Not many I know of... I wasn't doing THAT, until I was a sophomore!

(On my 2 yr. degree, my 2nd one in this field, straight Comp. Sci., 1992-1994, when I first saw PC's really)

First was MIS, 4 yr., many years prior (1984-1988) & I hated it...

COBOL, BASIC, & not much else as it was the dinosaur days in the 1980's (dataprocessing really).

Windows & DOS got me "back into it" later, because it was nicer & better than the b.s. timesharing/dumb(ass) terminals & glass house model... green screen ugly IBM, VMS, OR UNIX boxes.

Keep @ it?

You'll earn bigtime, later... especially on the CISCO router stuff!

APK

P.S.=> Start on the other side now too (Windows-wise Tcp/IP implementation of security filtering OS-side), see what I put up 2 pages back...

It DOES explain much & SHOULD BE, for the most part (Hell ALL) accurate! apk
 
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Windows & DOS got me "back into it" later, because it was nicer & better than the b.s. timesharing/dumb(ass) terminals & glass house model... green screen ugly IBM, VMS, OR UNIX boxes.

Client access express is my friend. Or the good old I-O terminals. We still have two.

D U
F16
wrkactjob
wrkusrprf


:D




The level of security in one of those boxes was high due to the limited amount of things that could be done, same as the inventory-POS server we use at work.


Too fun to use when you have secusr authourity though. Hospitals and many high security facilitys use them. The only bummer is when you try to explain to the IT guy at a hospital that peeps are installing shareware proggys that could contain keyloggers, and no system is immune to a dumb user-IT department. SSN's, CCN's, DL numbers, etc.... And all he does is blush and start huffing like a idiot.
 

Alec§taar

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LOL, Steevo? Read this WHOLE thing, end-to-end, you will laugh most likely (AND, I have a question for you in my p.s.):

Client access express is my friend. Or the good old I-O terminals. We still have two.

D U
F16
wrkactjob
wrkusrprf


:D

IBM ClientAccess 400 - I remember it well, with RUMBA!

:)

As/400 (OS/400 terminal emulators) - I've done QUITE A BIT of "Cross-Platform" programming to IBM midranges & that was the DLL toolset I used (the function calls present in their libs in RUMBA application mostly, after I "hacked my way" thru their DLL function calls using notepad.exe & GUESSING on the data types to pass to their functions (had to in those days, they were not published publicly AND, you had to spend a LOT more on the SDK put out for them too if you wanted to save time, but not money))

I also had setup & used ClientAccess @ other places too, but RUMBA was what I used mostly for development.

It's too bad imo though, that Wyse WinTerms are coming in largely lately, to do the SAME thing: Constrict users, & also make a networkers job TOO easy.

Heck - IMO? You're better off using PC's you own already & Windows Terminal Server (RDP based), or better yet Citrix WinFrame/MetaFrame stuff (lighter, faster, & generally more capable protocol, in some/most circumstances vs. RDP).

Too fun to use when you have secusr authourity though. Hospitals and many high security facilitys use them. The only bummer is when you try to explain to the IT guy at a hospital that peeps are installing shareware proggys that could contain keyloggers, and no system is immune to a dumb user-IT department. SSN's, CCN's, DL numbers, etc.... And all he does is blush and start huffing like a idiot.

Yea, well... last place I worked? Our "CTO" was the dork!

E.G.-> I kept showing up this F'd up randomly named process in memory... I kept my mouth shut for a bit, I figured they were "shadowing me"...

Well, it was a keylogger, & on my system since day #1 no less (I got my machine "presetup for me" I did not see it be done, nor was I part of its setup process watching it & Usually? I DEMAND THAT!)

Anyhow, and I certainly did NOT put it there, & brought it to everyone's attention no less, starting with the junior net admin, who started same week I did (maybe week later).

Turns out, This "big shot CTO" (dunce) "preferred antivirus" solution, Trend Micro was crappy & setup bad!

LOL, & how it was setup was WRONG was crap! Read on (Should amuse you):

I.E.-> It wasn't updating (& was MONTHS out of date)...

Now, when I pointed this out to his junior net admin & we found that out?

LOL, Mr. "CTO" looked like shit & a liar...

Mainly, because in a meeting of the ENTIRE dept. he outright lied & b.s.'d telling us "TREND IS THE BEST", before I figured out that TREND as he set it up? Was NOT working & not updating clients!

I then said in front of everyone there, "CAN YOU SHOW ME YOUR DATA ON THIS?"

He was unable to, like usual... He said "Oh I can't remember where I saw it"

(More like he was given some "kickback" to buy it, & YOU KNOW AND I KNOW, it happens all the time with "crooked" or blatantly STUPID managers, & many are)

I said "Gee, year in & year out, on ALL THE TESTS I HAVE SEEN EVER? Norton, AVG, & AntiVir always come out 1/2/3 a CLOSE respectively"...

(Trend was not even in the SAME LEAGUE in the tests we all see in the traderags, but, it is cheaper typically iirc... WELL, you do get what you pay for!)

LOL!

And, certainly NOT if it was NOT updating properly as the "CTO" moron I refer to had set it up... lol, we PROMPTLY went AVG afterwards...

(Gee, wonder why? Thought TREND WAS THE BEST from Mr. "I am always right" CTO w/ little professional experience (imo @ least, less than 10 years worth for SURE))

He is the type of guy that asks other for solutions & cannot do them himself... this? It often backfires, I have seen it SO many times over the years in my career, it's NOT funny!

So much for that!

That dumbass left us ALL exposed due to his stupidity and doubtless kickback for purchase oriented greed.

Funniest part is? I will be dealing with him again soon, on a professional note, & WILL SMOKE HIM ON THIS POINT SPECIFICALLY!

(Dude, don't get me wrong, But... I love running circles around a-holes who need it & this guy? NEEDS IT, & he is no longer my "superior" (never was in this field on ANY level) & I don't have to 'kow tow' to his b.s. anymore)

Man, I can't wait... time to scorch him, good...

(Ordinarily? I am NOT like that believe me - it's NOT my nature, I'll avoid fights & hassles @ most ANY cost & especially with the unreasonable & inflexible types, especially those that talk a good game but produce NO backing data!)

They piss me off!

LOL, but this fool?? He was downright amazing:

E.G.-> He would come over to us coders, call us stupid & such, right in public...

One day, I told him he was full of shit & all the other coders just laffed!

(Especially one he started an argument with & was WAY wrong to top it off, I just listened on THAT one, & told them to quit arguing near my desk (could not concentrate))

However, later?

He started up w/ me on security issues saying "Oh, you don't know shit. you talk kindergarten stuff, and I know network security etc." Yea, because he has his MSCE... lol, I used to have that (circa NT 3.51 days etc. but no longer work as networker, mostly coder since 1997 onwards)... I guess his cert means he "knows all"...

Another "paper MSCE/CNE" etc. type, having to belittle others with his b.s. title he doesn't merit... I can spot those, 10 miles out, quick.

Anyhow this happened, because I merely pointed out some facts/suggestions to him, & after THAT name calling he gave me?

HELL, I wanted to pop that punk in the nose for it... couldn't though, need the paycheck!

(I merely mentioned how IP filtering works & such & the manner in which IP stacks process requests on Windows & where our company was NOT secured all the way & I told him what could be done, additionally, for this (has to be, it dealt in SSN's & more like healthcare data) on a testbox if needed (using IPSec &/or port filtrations if needed))?

He shut the F up fast, was WAY outta his element!

Then, like usual, as dumbass mgt. is wont to do?

WELL, He said "it would take too much time & money to implement"!

Oh, really?

Maybe about 20-30 minutes on a test box setup (already done one) using netstat -ano & nbtstat etc. to see what we need open ports-wise & what to shutdown.

Tested w/ all our apps too... TOPS?

Maybe 1/2-1 day work, tops, for security. Our rep is based largely on that, & part of WHY I was hired was for security in new apps we built too. He is penny-wise & POUND FOOLISH!

IMO? You get "penetrated" & it comes out in public? You lose customers (do you want your money in a bank with an open to the public vault basically?), You lose shareholders, you lose it all! Bad rep...

Sure, made me an enemy, but that prick needed to be exposed for his crap! You cannot live like a man imo @ least, & NOT make enemies.

APK

P.S.=> Steevo... you wouldn't just so happen to be from Utica, N.Y.area OR near to it, would you? Just curious... Just a hunch/weird premonition of sorts I guess is why I ask... lol! Humor me, let me know via PM if needed... apk
 
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Colorado.


That is funny.


Too many people in the business are just smart enough to be dangerous. But we all were at one time. I can't count the times I crashed 95 stomping through the registry, but I still never profess to know it all. Or anything for that matter. :D
 

Alec§taar

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Colorado.

Ah... ok, just curious is all!

That is funny.

Yea, it is... & it's NOT! If stuff like that got out to our customers, they'd leave man... they leave? Folks like myself & others lose their jobs, & the "vicious circle" as I call it, starts.

Death spiral...

And, I don't blame customers that, again: Would you want your money or personal info. in a bank or other institution that left its vault doors wide open?

HECK NO! Speaking for myself, @ least...

Too many people in the business are just smart enough to be dangerous. But we all were at one time.

Yes, I agree... we ALL start someplace. It's just folks that are "inflexible" once you point out things that may need doing are needed - they get all "bent" & toss names and such as he did my way & my colleagues' way many times.

We just suggested things we KNEW needed doing which are not "his way" (which his perspective is EXTREMELY limited & one-sided, no questions asked) & that since we code around IP for years now in apps (e.g.-> Secure FTP, emailing from apps (w/ & w/out Outlook libs present via say, SMTP, & far more?))!

It IS possible that we may actually KNOW what we're doing in these capacities... after all, it is WHAT we do! Some coders, like myself??

Started OUT as network engineers/admins! It helps... it really does. Has 'saved the day' for myself & colleagues on jobs of "Enterprise Class" simply because I understood the networking side to a decent extent & the OS as well.

We are, as coders, after all the guys that make the tools network admins/engineers & users all alike, USE!

I can't count the times I crashed 95 stomping through the registry, but I still never profess to know it all. Or anything for that matter. :D

I agree... for instance, I have learned a GREAT DEAL on these forums that I did not know before (hardware & o/c'ing-wise, areas I let "slide" for a good 5 year or more stretch now because of concentrating SOLELY on coding (.NET & all the changes, mostly good, some bad, etc. & just NEW (constant change, you KNOW how that is))).

APK

P.S.=> I have to apologize for some of my "tone" up there, but folks like the person I speak about above? Really, REALLY, tick me off... especially when they may be affecting my personal rep in this field which is my livelyhood, & yes, those of my colleagues potentially as well (they want A$$kissing "yes-men", not people offering constructive critique for the good of the whole, etc. is why)... too much of it out there imo, in this field & yes, others... apk
 
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