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Putting Paging file on it's own partition

Alec§taar

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i have searched google.. many times.. i know the theoretic benifits.. i have even had my pagefile.sys on a small fat 32 partition.. i have had my pagefile every size and every place.. nary a jot of difference have i detected..

Again, your senses? Don't operate in ns/ms increments typically-most likely... as a human being? I doubt we can "perceive strong benefits or diff.'s from it" as we don't move or think as fast as PC's CPU's do... but, they do, & this is WHY we run 'benchmarks' really!

* To see & get "quantitative descriptions" & numbers showing us the differences!

as i said in my last post i now have no pagfile and am about to search for the one alec tells me windows will make.. i came back here to find its name..

trog

It's temppf.sys, & you (in your case) would need say, a 1-11mb pagefile.sys setup, & then under %SystemRoot%, you SHOULD see a temppf.sys form...

(With 2gb of RAM online though? This ought to be interesting... & you SHOULD see a pagefile.sys warning from the OS when you bootup, IF you follow those directions from MS above & set a 1-11mb pagefile.sys up, instead of your current 200mb one!)

:)

APK
 
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alec.. i now have no hardrive based page file.. windows has not made any attemp to create a temporary "temppf.sys" file.. i have no such file..

i have just rebooted.. my system is set to show all files..

my system appears to be functioning perfectly normally as it should..

i am keeping my replies short to save u typeing with your quote type style..

i might not be satisfying M/S's conditions (i am proud of that) but if i dont have any hard disk based page file even a temorary one how on earth can windows be possibly useing one..????

seeing is believing alec.. googling and techno babble is nine tenths bullshit.. please dont send me off to read more bullshit..

i also never exceed in memory usage the amount of physical memory i have.. i never have to.. its not good for performance and that dosnt need a benchmark to tell me..

trog
 

Alec§taar

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alec.. i now have no hardrive based page file.. windows has not made any attemp to create a temporary "temppf.sys" file.. i have no such file..

Apparently, if you don't see the errmsg @ bootup, the file will NOT generate, with 2gb of RAM present is all.

i have just rebooted.. my system is set to show all files..

my system appears to be functioning perfectly normally as it should..

Good. You aren't getting warnings from the OS, & thus, it appears that w/ 2gb online or more, you won't see the errs noted on the page directly from MS! Such as the "bootup" errs of stating you have an insufficiently sized pagefile.sys.

I know that here, w/ 512mb of RAM onboard in RAM chips, that IF I lose my RAMDisk partition w/ my pagefile.sys on it?

I see them...

(I.E.-> Errs about running w/out a pagefile.sys... & the OS forms one in my C:\ Root!)

i am keeping my replies short to save u typeing with your quote type style..

It allows me to address your points, POINT-BY-POINT, hopefully so I do NOT miss any of your points.

i might not be satisfying M/S's conditions (i am proud of that) but if i dont have any hard disk based page file even a temorary one how on earth can windows be possibly useing one..????

Good for you. See my questions below then, in my P.S....

seeing is believing alec.. googling and techno babble is nine tenths bullshit.. please dont send me off to read more bullshit..

I admit, I don't like being spoken to in that manner. Please, keep it cool, ok?? I didn't write MS page up there (though fairly current from June 2003)

Who also says that when you have 2gb of RAM present, you are not going to see those things noted DIRECTLY FROM MS, above??

Secondly: That "bullshit" above?

It is not off "GOOGLE"!

It is from the designer of the OS itself, Microsoft... it is from (iirc) the year 2003, June as the month, thus, probably NOT out of date... I do like anyone else would, head STRAIGHT to the horses' mouth (MS) for clarification - they did build their OS, after all!

THOUGH possibly? Incomplete as to systems with 2gb or more of RAM as you have... that is all.

i also never exceed in memory usage the amount of physical memory i have.. i never have to.. its not good for performance and that dosnt need benchmark to tell me..

trog

WELL, Try it with larger apps, & data sets that exceed your 2gb RAM + 200mb pagefile.sys... see what happens!

BUT, you seem to already note what does - you will abend/errout, noted by yourself above... that's ok IF you don't mind it, I suppose.

I can't afford that here. Not really. Time = money.

APK

P.S.=> QUESTION:

First:

I proved that for example, Explorer.exe IS PAGING, all the time, even w/ free RAM present...

Do you concede this? You should, if you performed the simple test I noted...

Second:

Ever stop to think, since I showed you that YOU ARE PAGING, even with FREE RAM PRESENT, that it is swapping/paging to someplace?

Third:

Tell me, where is that then that it is paging to... ??

(That is all I am curious about... it must be "paging into thin air" I suppose)... apk
 
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the problem with quote type replies alec is it make them very dfficult to reply to and gets silly as the interchange progresses..

first and most relevant point alec is how do u know i am telling the truth.. u dont but u could do as u keep telling me to do.. run the same tests i am running..

"That's apparently because all you do is game... Try it with larger apps, & data sets that exceed your 2gb RAM + 200mb pagefile.sys..."

i do what i do alec.. which is more than game.. and probably more than most.. but if more physical ram would help i would install it.. i have 2 gigs cos 2 gigs is enough for what i do..

"Ever stop to think, since I showed you that YOU ARE PAGING, even with FREE RAM PRESENT, that it is swapping/paging to someplace?"

i have no idea alec.. with no sign of any hard disk based pagefile i am some what puzzled.. i have no "temppf.sys" file.. i have no pagefile.sys file.. u tell me where is windows paging to.. ???

i am not dealing with theory here alec just what i have in front of me.. a seeming mystery.. a fully functional xp system with nowhere else other than spare physical memory for windows to page to..

trog

ps.. i really dont mean to offend u alec.. but its beginning to look like its how i say it is.. windows only uses its disk based memory when it runs out of the real stuff.. most of the stuff u quote and believe is out of date and based on systems not coming with 2 gigs (enough) of real memory..

your own system only has 512 of real memory which isnt enough for what u do and that is why your system balks if u turn your ram dosk based swopfile off.. it seems your limitted physical memory quite clearly needs a some disk based help..

my system with 2 gigs of real ram seems to be breaking the old rules.. i would suggest that when it pages out it pages out to spare physical memeory..

its the only possible explanation for what i see in front of me.. which quite clearly isnt how u think it should be..

it isnt how i thought it should be either.. but it is what i see..

course if u think i am making all this up.. the entire debate kinda loses its point.. he he

and buddy i dont like being called a liar either but it could be a possibility.. one never kows on the internet.. he he
 
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Alec§taar

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most of the stuff u quote and believe is out of date and based on systems not coming with 2 gigs (enough) of real memory..

Well, when you run out of RAM one day? We will see how "out of date it is", once you run into some work or data that demands more... if you can tolerate that? Fine... personally, I cannot.

I crash my development tools or servers? I am out of the work I just did... you might have the same happen, I don't know what else you do on a PC that might eat over 2gb... you may not period, ever.

ps.. i really dont mean to offend u alec.. but its beginning to look like its how i say it is.. windows only uses its disk based memory when it runs out of the real stuff..

You are paging, this much we BOTH know... yet, you don't have a pagefile.sys, nor even a temppf.sys... you MUST be paging to disk with SOME file... question is?

What file or files??

PAGEFAULTING is paging... point-blank!

You don't page RAM to RAM...

Plus, we both see your explorer.exe doing it constantly, and your other apps too (some of the ones that behaved as I described they would, winamp in your case, paging when minimized/maximized).

Question again - where to in the case of systems w/ 2gb of RAM??

ps.. i really dont mean to offend u alec..

You're not, only the "don't make me look @ bullshit" stuff sort of did... it's NOT MY 'bullshit' man, it's apparently MS'... but, there are some things making ME wonder as noted earlier & above in this reply!

You aren't even getting the warning about pagefile.sys being missing, with 2gb of RAM on your system... yet, here, with 512mb if I lose my pagefile.sys?

I get warnings & a new one is created in root of C: drive...

the problem with quote type replies alec is it make them very dfficult to reply to and gets silly as the interchange progresses..

My man, that is attempting to impose YOUR point of view upon others, & in this case, myself.

Think about that...

Sure, you are entitled to that as it is your opinion!

BUT, I am sorry if my writing style bugs you... I do it for GOOD reason imo: Again - I just use quotes in the manner I stated above - so I don't miss any points others made when I reply back is all.

first and most relevant point alec is how do u know i am telling the truth.. u dont but u could do as u keep telling me to do.. run the same tests i am running..

Apparently, something's up here... it must have to do w/ the fact you have 2gb total, because you don't even SEE the 'warning messages' I do when my pagefile partition on my ramdisk goes out (during power outages, it happens).

Let's assume you ARE telling the truth (which I am) & that Microsoft's page is "bullshit" as you say then!

Apparently, it is missing THAT piece of information apparently, or that condition, when someone has > 2gb RAM is all.

I cannot help it if Ms' documentation is off... but again: I know that when my pagefile.sys is missing, I certainly DO see messages about it being missing & another forms in the root of C:\ as pagefile.sys.

"Ever stop to think, since I showed you that YOU ARE PAGING, even with FREE RAM PRESENT, that it is swapping/paging to someplace?"

i have no idea alec.. with no sign of any hard disk based pagefile i am some what puzzled.. i have no "temppf.sys" file.. i have no pagefile.sys file.. u tell me where is windows paging to.. ???

Heh, should be either:

1.) Pagefile.sys

or

2.) Temppf.sys

(I personally don't know of any other paging type files the system would use, other than the older Windows 3.x types, which were not named either one of those, & which we are NOT talking about here as your OR my OS version)

Neither do I @ this point - your system is 'defying' the conditions noted on that tech page from MS, dated June 2003!

i am not dealing with theory here alec just what i have in front of me.. a seeming mystery.. a fully functional xp system with nowhere else other than spare physical memory for windows to page to..

It IS a mystery, because we both KNOW you're paging via the taskmgr.exe experiment we ran... it is WAY odd.

Know what I am thinking?

That page from MS is missing conditions in which someone like yourself who has 2gb, doesn't have that happen in the conditions MS notes above @ this point (assuming you are telling it how it is & I do think you are telling it how it is over there on your rig is all).

Still, you're showing pagefaults inside taskmgr.exe process' tab on Explorer.exe your desktop gui shell... it HAS to be paging, to SOMEWHERE on disk... but where, on your system?

APK

P.S.=> BUT, it still does NOT explain where you ARE paging to, since pagefaults ARE generating from explorer.exe & we both know that is the case... NOW, I am curious as hell!

Guess what I am going to do? GOOGLE THE HELL OUT OF PAGEFILE.SYS and 2gb, & see what turns up... prefereably from MS itself!

What else can we do? I have never seen this before that I can recall @ least... apk
 
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Trog, I can say, from personal experience, putting the pagefile on a seperate partition will yeild an increase in performance that is noticable, and making that partition FAT32 will yeild an even greater performance benifit than NTFS.
 

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Trog100:

I am going to find the path in the registry we can BOTH look @ for the heck of it in the memmgt section!

We'll see what you have in yours, vs. mine, which should show pagefile.sys (or other data regarding WHERE you are paging to).

Honestly? Like yourself as well??

This has me "mystified"...

POINTS TO CONSIDER WHICH WE HAVE EXPLORED THUSFAR IN YOUR "MYSTERY" THERE:

1.) We KNOW you're paging!

2.) Both of us have seen that on both of our machines via the taskmgr.exe explorations of the PROCESS tab's PAGE FAULT column usage, especially in the case of explorer.exe... and winamp.exe when you min/restore its window.

3.) QUESTION IS - Where ARE you paging to, over there??

4.) You have NO pagefile.sys or temppf.sys present - ODD!

APK

P.S.=> brb, with the area of regedit.exe & the regpath we need to @ least take a peek @ on your end... next post below (done)! apk
 
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Alec§taar

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Trog100:

Humor me, open up regedit.exe & look here:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management

In the left hand side pane... & in the right hand side pane, tell me what you have for THESE particular entries there:

PagingFiles
DisablePagingExecutive
ClearPageFileAtShutdown
LargeSystemCache
PagedPoolSize
PagedPoolQuota
NonPagedPoolSize
NonPagedPoolQuota
SystemPages

:)

* Thanks, because iirc? THOSE ARE THE MAIN AREAS THAT CONTROL PAGEFILES, & also paging & memmgt, period...

ALSO:

This program may help:

http://www.standards.com/Downloads/PageFileUsageMonitor.zip

Read more about it, here:

http://www.standards.com/ThisAndThat/PageFileUsageMonitor.html

(I just ran it, it is pretty good, easy to use, and works... if anything will tell us? This SHOULD!)

Personally? I can think of no other way (other than performance monitor) to check WHERE you are actually paging to...

(Well, possibly tools like SysInternals diskmon, or filemon may help... but, I am NOT sure if they track pagefile accesses or not - I am fairly sure they don't but don't quote me on that!)

APK

P.S.=> Sorry for the delay, my neighbor & I have a "nightly chess game" every Tuesday, & today's THAT day... apk
 
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Also Trog, don't trust what your operating system is showing you while you browse your files, install DOS and take a look for yourself, there is alot more files than you think there is.
 

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Also Trog, don't trust what your operating system is showing you while you browse your files, install DOS and take a look for yourself, there is alot more files than you think there is.

He took off... what can you do? He'll be back most likely, as he is just as curious as I was @ this point most likely.

:(

* I am ALL sort of curious now, as to WHERE he is paging to (because that much, we KNOW he is doing as much as the rest of us, via taskmgr.exe PROCESS TAB, pagefault column - which IS what paging is defined as, pagefaulting, & you don't just "page into thin air" OR "ram to ram")...

At this point?

Well, I provided the registry areas to look over, & tools to use for monitoring WHERE he is paging to, but we have to wait him out is all.

APK
 
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No one should ever try to disprove Alecsstaar xD
 

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No one should ever try to disprove Alecsstaar xD

NO please DO disprove me... especially if/when I am wrong (it happens).

I only get "stronger" by it.

Mistakes, when I make 'em? Stick with me forever, especially in this lunacy (computers).

This time though, it's NOT "disproving me" but the information I got from MS' website (I go there usually when in doubt, for OS stuff, & coding)... this time, Trog100's case is making me doubt what I read here:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=257758

His system is apparently DEFYING that... on all accounts. I have never seen that before, so I too, need to know what is going on!

I mean hey: Where else do you go, but the "horses' mouth" (designer of the OS we use in this case), when you need ACCURATE info., typically?

(You know what I mean??)

The fact he is paging is probably making him @ least SOMEWHAT doubt that if you have 2gb or better, you don't page @ all... we've PROVEN he is, but to WHERE??

APK

P.S.=> This one though, admittedly? Is "flipping me out" in Trog100's case... it really is!

(& I magine he too, as we both began to get "frustrated" last page with one another's points)...

As is, though, on what we DO know so far in his case?

I made my points a post or two back on this page about what we DO know (that he IS paging) but what we don't know is WHERE TO & you don't page to thin air, or RAM-to-RAM either!!!

I put up tools that ought to help out, & also registry areas to look over on his end, but that is about all I can do... apk
 
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God, your my idol Alec :D
 

Alec§taar

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God, your my idol Alec :D

LOL, honestly? BAD CHOICE!

:)

APK

P.S.=> I am going to watch "Vanilla Sky" now, & take a break while waiting to see what Trog100 shows in the data from his registry & maybe a screenshot from that pagefile monitoring app I put a link up to above... apk
 
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he he he.. i took off cos u appeared have taken off alec.. but i will do as u say.. and i aint trying to disprove anything.. simply puzzle out the conflcting evidence i am seeing..

i also accept that alex is way over my head techno wise.. but when my own tests i run conflict with what i should be seeing i believe what i see not what i should see..

for years i have played with my swopfile based on what i read.. now i have reached my own conclusions and say no matter what i do with it my own personal experience tells me that with todays common large amount of ram.. its all redundant..

one problem is windows itself.. when u mess with its virtual memory it refers to something called its pagefile.. one assumes it means the disk based part of its virtual memory.. when u look into task manager it refers to its pagefile again and tells u how much is in use..

this is where it all starts to get confusing.. i assumed pagefile in use meant its disk based memory.. i think most people do.. but from tests i run even when i dont have one i get exactly the same pagefile in use message in task manager..

i dont believe for one second that windows is creating an invisible one of gig or so in size so it seems windows is simply refering to memory in use not the disk based part..

my conclusion as to how it works goes like this.. windows doesnt know the difference tween its physical memory and its disk based memory.. to windows its all system memory.. i also believe it pages out to spare memory of any kind but only seems to use its disk based memory when the real stuff is lacking..

this of course conflicts with all i have read about windows and its memory.. incidentally i still have no pagefile.sys or the temp file.. nothing strange has happened..

just goona look in my reg thingy..

back in a tick..

trog
 
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Pagingfiles no data when double clicked.. nothing in it..

DisablePagingExecutive value 0

ClearPageFileAtShutdown value 0

LargeSystemCache value 0

PagedPoolSize value 0

PagedPoolQuota value 0

NonePagedPoolSize value 0

NonePagedPoolQuota value 0

SystemPages value 303000

###

the rest..

SessionPoolSize value 4

SessionViewSize value 30

WriteWatch value 1

SecondLevelDataCache value 0

if i have missed any they have nothing in them or have a value of 0

lots of zeroes it seems..

just gonna download and try the pagemonitor zip

trog
 
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that's what I get
 

Alec§taar

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Software Windows Server 2003 SP #1 fully patched, & massively tuned/tweaked to-the-max (plus latest drivers)
my conclusion as to how it works goes like this.. windows doesnt know the difference tween its physical memory and its disk based memory.. to windows its all system memory..

BINGO, that is EXACTLY right... I said early on in this thread, if you care to look? It's ALL "VIRTUAL MEMORY" to Windows... both your RAM in chips AND on disk in pagefiles!

i also believe it pages out to spare memory of any kind but only seems to use its disk based memory when the real stuff is lacking..

Interesting... & this is the part that makes NO SENSE to me @ all, honestly! It defies what paging is about, paging to disk based pagefile.sys, OR the temppf.sys (which you & I have discussed extensively from the data on the MS page I referred us to).

this of course conflicts with all i have read about windows and its memory.. incidentally i still have no pagefile.sys or the temp file.. nothing strange has happened..

It does... & it is REALLY "bugging me". It defies most all I have learned in this field regarding how Virtual Memory utilizing OS' work in fact.

just goona look in my reg thingy..

back in a tick..

trog

Yes, please do... & DO TRY THAT LITTLE APP I note above!

(Easy to use, it does work, & has a full write up on it as well on the lower url below its download linkage)

Put up screenshots from it possibly if you would.

Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we'll all learn a NEW THING here, & that is, what it is all about imo @ least, after all... apk
 

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Trog100: NO PAGINGFILES entry @ all?

Trog100: NO PAGINGFILES entry in the registry there @ all?

APK
 
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Software Win 10 pro..
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the little monitor thing thing dosnt tell me anything either except the time.. i ran it for ten minutes or so.. loaded and unloaded 1.4 gig of a game called fear.. ran around for a couple of minutes.. loaded and unloaded.. maxed and minimmized a few apps.. all it updated was the time.. perhaps i am useing it wrong..

i am still running no page file.. perhaps windows really does mean no pageing when u tell it no pagefile..??

trog
 

Alec§taar

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Software Windows Server 2003 SP #1 fully patched, & massively tuned/tweaked to-the-max (plus latest drivers)
WoW... man, admittedly, @/by this point, on your case here?

I am stumped...

:(

* Just plain-jane, flat out stumped... & I do NOT like that!

Sorry man!

I don't have the answer to this one, & unless you can get ahold of an app that monitors pagefile interrupts, or rather paging interrupts in your case (since you have NO pagefile, & that little app SHOULD have cut it, imo, & does when you actually DO have a pagefile.sys present)?

Heck - I don't know HOW to trace/track where it is you are paging to, offhand... This one's going to 'bug me' for a long time until I get the answer to it.

(I sort of REFUSE to believe that when you cross the 2-4gb memory bearing mark in an OS, you page "Ram to Ram" (that defeats the typical/normal design of Virtual Memory utilizing OS' of which Windows NT-based OS, are))!

ARGH!!! We DO KNOW that you page, but to where?

APK

P.S.=> This is SO "freaky", but eventually, an answer will come out somehow, it always does & in keeping w/ the flick I am watching?

IT WILL BE A "REVOLUTION OF THE MIND"!

Now, back to "Vanilla Sky", one of my FAV flicks... apk
 
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Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..


do i page.. ????.. if i do i think it is ram to ram.. its the only logical conclusion i can arrive at..

if u want any screen shots of my system settings or bits and bobs i can soon post em..

trog
 
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Well still, putting the paging file on a different partition yeilded increases in performances for me. and I am running 2gigs of ram also.
 

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Power Supply Antec 500w ATX 2.0 "SmartPower" powersupply
Software Windows Server 2003 SP #1 fully patched, & massively tuned/tweaked to-the-max (plus latest drivers)
The only thing I can think of, is that it forms tiny temp files on your disk, & uses them AS needed, & fries them later... right after the OS is done using them.

Possibly TOO FAST for us to see/detect though... I don't know!

So... please, do me a favor: ONE last thing to test/check!

Open a DOS prompt, type SET & then press enter.

Once it puts out its data? Tell me where your %TEMP% or %TMP% is...

That is most likely WHERE these files I think are being used, will be written/read from... trick is, how long do they 'stick around' & will we be able to see them (if in fact, this IS the case)

APK

P.S.=> What "SET" does is display (or set new ones, like in a batchfile, to override existing ones or make new ones JUST for that particular instance of commands you run) your systemwide "environment" variables, which is handed to EVERY program when it runs, sort of an "in-memory .ini file"...

& the TEMP/TMP vars are just that: Where temporary operations are typically done, unless an application sets its own (like WinZip can)... apk
 
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System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..


had to google to find how to get dos prompt.. he he.. brain like a sieve..

i am now gonna delete the lot of em and see what happens.. i will leave the window open and hit fresh often..

trog
 
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