NVIDIA's shady trick to boost the GeForce 9600 GT

W1zzard · 02-29-2008, 12:52 PM

To read this review go to: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...Shady_9600_GT/

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newtekie1 · 02-29-2008, 03:52 PM

I wouldn't call it a shady trick.

Is it not entirely possible that nVidia's engineers simply used the PCI-e bus speed as the base because it would mean the card would be slightly cheaper to manufacture? I mean, the standard PCI-e bus speed is 100MHz, and only a very few people actually change that speed. So, perhaps they just figured they could use that to calculate the base 25MHz frequency instead of actually putting a crystal on the board, which would increase costs(slightly, but every little bit counts).

Linkboost does increase the PCI-e frequency but ONLY when a compatible graphics card is insalled. AFAIK the 9600GT isn't a compatible graphics card, so it won't be affected. However, I might be wrong here.

I don't think it was really an attempt to pull the wool over our eyes by nVidia, I just think it was a move to make the product cheaper and easier to produce that wasn't totally thought through or properly explained to the reviews/end-users.

DaMulta · 02-29-2008, 03:55 PM

Now if you could change the voltage in bios for the video card this would really rock. No software needed for a simple core clock.

Now when you do this, the shaders are staying the same correct? They are not linked on this the same way the core is correct?

Paulieg · 02-29-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I wouldn't call it a shady trick.

Is it not entirely possible that nVidia's engineers simply used the PCI-e bus speed as the base because it would mean the card would be slightly cheaper to manufacture? I mean, the standard PCI-e bus speed is 100MHz, and only a very few people actually change that speed. So, perhaps they just figured they could use that to calculate the base 25MHz frequency instead of actually putting a crystal on the board, which would increase costs(slightly, but every little bit counts).

Linkboost does increase the PCI-e frequency but ONLY when a compatible graphics card is insalled. AFAIK the 9600GT isn't a compatible graphics card, so it won't be affected. However, I might be wrong here.

I don't think it was really an attempt to pull the wool over our eyes by nVidia, I just think it was a move to make the product cheaper and easier to produce that wasn't totally thought through or properly explained to the reviews/end-users.

Well, I would agree with you if they didnt flat out deny or refuse to answer questions about it. I mean once it becomes an issue/concern, why not give an accurate explanation?

POGE · 02-29-2008, 03:59 PM

Dont know why they want to hide it... but the fact they do is wrong. I mean is it ok to lie about clock speeds in drivers?

W1zzard · 02-29-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

mean the card would be slightly cheaper to manufacture?

a 27 mhz crystal is already on the board for the memory clock, so why not use that like we did for the last 25 or so years?

regan1985 · 02-29-2008, 04:28 PM

somthing tells me there is more to it! altho i think its a very good find, some1 has a lot of time to spare well done w1zzard why they didnt tell you i dont know! i wonder if other new nvidia cards will end up the same?!

[I.R.A]_FBi · 02-29-2008, 04:29 PM

will the same apply to a 9800GT?

ShinyG · 02-29-2008, 04:48 PM

So that's how they did it!
I was like crazy on another thread why is the 9600GT so close to the 8800GT even though it has half the shaders. It just didn't add up.
Well, now it does!

Thanks W1zzard for clearing that out

SK-1 · 02-29-2008, 04:52 PM

Good Tech,...bad execution. I agree with Wizz.

rhythmeister · 02-29-2008, 04:55 PM

Nice find and good digging up of subject matter!

W1zzard · 02-29-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [I.R.A]_FBi

will the same apply to a 9800GT?

depends on how they will implement the pcb design

[I.R.A]_FBi · 02-29-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

depends on how they will implement the pcb design

If they do, that may be the only reason to get a 9800GT, to the 1337, it makes no difference i guess.

DaMulta · 02-29-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

depends on how they will implement the pcb design

With that note, do you think this will only affect reference design 9600GT cards?

cowie · 02-29-2008, 05:02 PM

i would think they would boast about something thing like that or at least make users aware?
you guys are pure genius.

newtekie1 · 02-29-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

a 27 mhz crystal is already on the board for the memory clock, so why not use that like we did for the last 25 or so years?

I don't know, why use 25MHz as the base at all? All very good questions.

cdawall · 02-29-2008, 05:45 PM

what if someone just pressed the wrong key when coding the drivers

EastCoasthandle · 02-29-2008, 06:37 PM

Wow, just wow. This is an excellent find. This brings up 2 questions:
#1 Will people with intel chipsets loss out on this added boost (without boostlink)?
#2 What is the probablity of the card failing/malfunctioning because of this?

W1zzard · 02-29-2008, 06:39 PM

1) if you crank up the pcie clock on intel you will see the same clock increase
2) thats a good question. if a card can fail from overclocking (i have never seen evidence for that) and a manufacturer can detect it (no evidence for that either) and you didn't even know that the funky nvidia chipset overclocked your card, and made it go boom, you should get a new card from the mfgr or find a lawyer

AddSub · 02-29-2008, 06:52 PM

That's what I call a professionally done investigative report. Great stuff W1zzard.

niko084 · 02-29-2008, 06:53 PM

Thats a bit odd why they would mislead like that...

Shady a bit I would say...

Definitely very odd.

Tatty_One · 02-29-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulieg

Well, I would agree with you if they didnt flat out deny or refuse to answer questions about it. I mean once it becomes an issue/concern, why not give an accurate explanation?

Because perhaps they dont wanna give the competition idea's.....this has got to be a good thing, the method that is, not being secretive. I am all for performance enhancements, just dont like it being shady.

WarEagleAU · 02-29-2008, 09:19 PM

I Agree Tatty. If they fudged the numbers or something, I may understand, but a flat out refusal or secretive notion, is just wrong.

tkpenalty · 02-29-2008, 09:43 PM

Kudos w1zz.. and that proves that the 8800GT still > 9600GT however.

Its a great boost for 9600GT users and I agree, why did they have to be so shady with this? Why didnt they just tell us in the first place?

warhammer · 02-29-2008, 11:26 PM

Nice read Wiz

Can the crystal be changed on the G92 (8800GTS) and would it give a big boost in performance.

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02-29-2008, 03:55 PM	#3
DaMulta My stars went supernova Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oklahoma T-Town Posts: 9,740 (8.08/day) Thanks: 980 Thanked 1,261 Times in 978 Posts System Specs	Now if you could change the voltage in bios for the video card this would really rock. No software needed for a simple core clock. Now when you do this, the shaders are staying the same correct? They are not linked on this the same way the core is correct? __________________ ocLIT The Hardware Punishers

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02-29-2008, 12:52 PM	#1
W1zzard Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 7,609 (3.77/day) Thanks: 79 Thanked 2,485 Times in 931 Posts System Specs	NVIDIA's shady trick to boost the GeForce 9600 GT To read this review go to: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...Shady_9600_GT/ Please Digg the review to help us promote it. Last edited by W1zzard; 03-01-2008 at 12:37 AM.

02-29-2008, 03:52 PM	#2
newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,723 (5.98/day) Thanks: 320 Thanked 1,419 Times in 1,169 Posts System Specs	I wouldn't call it a shady trick. Is it not entirely possible that nVidia's engineers simply used the PCI-e bus speed as the base because it would mean the card would be slightly cheaper to manufacture? I mean, the standard PCI-e bus speed is 100MHz, and only a very few people actually change that speed. So, perhaps they just figured they could use that to calculate the base 25MHz frequency instead of actually putting a crystal on the board, which would increase costs(slightly, but every little bit counts). Linkboost does increase the PCI-e frequency but ONLY when a compatible graphics card is insalled. AFAIK the 9600GT isn't a compatible graphics card, so it won't be affected. However, I might be wrong here. I don't think it was really an attempt to pull the wool over our eyes by nVidia, I just think it was a move to make the product cheaper and easier to produce that wasn't totally thought through or properly explained to the reviews/end-users. __________________ Rig1: System Specs. Rig2: Xeon X3220@3.0GHz / P5N-E SLI / 2GB G.Skill DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 / eVGA GTX260 / Samsung DVD-Burner / 300GB WD + 2x1.5TB Seagate LP in RAID0 Rig3: Athlon X2 4200+ / M4A79 Deluxe / 4GB G.Skill Pi DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 / XFX HD4890 1GB / Sony DVD-Burner / 250GB Seagate Rig4: C2DE2180@3.3GHz / Asus P5B / 2GB G.Skill DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 / eVGA 8800GTS 320MB / Samsung DVD-Burner / 80GB Seagate

02-29-2008, 03:59 PM	#5
POGE Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In banjo's Goats. Posts: 1,365 (0.92/day) Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 18 Posts System Specs	Dont know why they want to hide it... but the fact they do is wrong. I mean is it ok to lie about clock speeds in drivers? __________________ pogeybait

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02-29-2008, 04:28 PM	#7
regan1985 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Coventry UNI England Posts: 1,361 (1.08/day) Thanks: 20 Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts System Specs	somthing tells me there is more to it! altho i think its a very good find, some1 has a lot of time to spare well done w1zzard why they didnt tell you i dont know! i wonder if other new nvidia cards will end up the same?!

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02-29-2008, 04:29 PM	#8
[I.R.A]_FBi Eligible for custom title Join Date: May 2007 Location: c:\programs\kitteh.exe Posts: 5,375 (5.87/day) Thanks: 568 Thanked 441 Times in 382 Posts System Specs	will the same apply to a 9800GT? __________________ Rig 1+1 Athlon XP 2200+, MSI KM2M Combo, ATI 9200SE 128 MB DDR, 2 X 512 MB DDR333, 250GB + 80 HDD? “try intel cpu, amd is only good for going to nude sites” -firehawkxd “go for the 5850 now and play games while the nvidiots wait for the ceo to show an actual working product” -W1zzard

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02-29-2008, 04:48 PM	#9
ShinyG Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Romania Posts: 180 (0.12/day) Thanks: 6 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts System Specs	So that's how they did it! I was like crazy on another thread why is the 9600GT so close to the 8800GT even though it has half the shaders. It just didn't add up. Well, now it does! Thanks W1zzard for clearing that out __________________ The one and only!

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02-29-2008, 04:52 PM	#10
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02-29-2008, 04:55 PM	#11
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02-29-2008, 05:02 PM	#15
cowie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: new jersey usa Posts: 45 (0.05/day) Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	i would think they would boast about something thing like that or at least make users aware? you guys are pure genius.

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02-29-2008, 05:45 PM	#17
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02-29-2008, 06:37 PM	#18
EastCoasthandle Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,912 (2.34/day) Thanks: 238 Thanked 686 Times in 396 Posts System Specs	Wow, just wow. This is an excellent find. This brings up 2 questions: #1 Will people with intel chipsets loss out on this added boost (without boostlink)? #2 What is the probablity of the card failing/malfunctioning because of this? __________________ Windows 7 Club!, Online Gaming Lag and You Naturally Aspired WaterCooling Thread The PC Air Cooling Club

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02-29-2008, 06:39 PM	#19
W1zzard Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 7,609 (3.77/day) Thanks: 79 Thanked 2,485 Times in 931 Posts System Specs	1) if you crank up the pcie clock on intel you will see the same clock increase 2) thats a good question. if a card can fail from overclocking (i have never seen evidence for that) and a manufacturer can detect it (no evidence for that either) and you didn't even know that the funky nvidia chipset overclocked your card, and made it go boom, you should get a new card from the mfgr or find a lawyer

02-29-2008, 06:52 PM	#20
AddSub Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 796 (0.66/day) Thanks: 11 Thanked 64 Times in 57 Posts	That's what I call a professionally done investigative report. Great stuff W1zzard. __________________

02-29-2008, 06:53 PM	#21
niko084 Eligible for custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota Posts: 5,585 (5.16/day) Thanks: 108 Thanked 457 Times in 431 Posts System Specs	Thats a bit odd why they would mislead like that... Shady a bit I would say... Definitely very odd. __________________ This electronic post is encrypted in the 'English language method', any attempt to decipher meaning from these symbols is a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. This includes, but is not limited to: interpreting the symbols through use of biological, visual decryption devices, translating the symbols into another language encryption scheme, and digital processing the symbols into a form conducive to oral interpretation. HWBOT HEATWARE

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02-29-2008, 09:19 PM	#23
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02-29-2008, 09:43 PM	#24
tkpenalty Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Australia, Sydney Posts: 4,909 (4.26/day) Thanks: 383 Thanked 343 Times in 260 Posts System Specs	Kudos w1zz.. and that proves that the 8800GT still > 9600GT however. Its a great boost for 9600GT users and I agree, why did they have to be so shady with this? Why didnt they just tell us in the first place? __________________ AMD Radeon X1950~HD4000 Support Clubhouse “Mac: "Woah, what are you doing?" Mac says as he levitates in the air. PC: "Playing Half-Life 2, this is my gravity gun." Mac: "Well I can sort of do that." PC: "Technically Mac, you have to become me first."” -From_Nowhere

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02-29-2008, 11:26 PM	#25
warhammer Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204 (0.30/day) Thanks: 2 Thanked 25 Times in 20 Posts System Specs	Nice read Wiz Can the crystal be changed on the G92 (8800GTS) and would it give a big boost in performance.