Read B4 going PhysX Crazy

wolf2009 · Aug 12, 2008, 06:30 PM

This is a must read for everyone intending to play with PhysX. This will solve a lot of your questions and problems that you are going to have.

NVIDIA's GeForce PhysX implementation

NVIDIA has created three sets of circumstances on how you can choose to use your PhysX setup from within the PhysX driver, let's have a look:

Standard - one GPU renders both Graphics + PhysX (not ideal as you'll need a lot of GPU horsepower).
SLI mode - have two GPUs render both Graphics + PhysX (SLI motherboard required)
Multi-GPU mode - GPU1 renders Graphics and GPU2 renders PhysX (SLI motherboard not required)

Below is an example pic of

Most IMPORTANT

Now there's a thing you will need to be aware of in the Multi GPU mode, it's actually a Vista limitation but a second monitor must be attached to enable PhysX running on the second GeForce GPU. You must extend your Windows Vista desktop onto that monitor.

To bypass that issue, most monitors have a standard VGA and a DVI connector, right? Just use both. This limitation is related to the Windows Vista display driver model (WDDM). This limitation does not exist in Windows XP. In NVIDIA's upcoming drivers, they will be offering a workaround to improve the experience for Windows Vista users.

In other words you do not need to have 2 monitors in XP, while in Vista you need 2 connections or you can bypass that with above trick.

With a single card or two cards in SLI mode you will not have this problem.

Please Leave a Thanks !

Taken from here

wolf2009 · Aug 12, 2008, 06:45 PM

btarunr · Aug 12, 2008, 06:50 PM

Here's a trick: Use a DVI - DSub coverter dongle.

The dongle routes back a ground power signal to the DVI even when there's no display connected to the D Sub. In essence you're fooling the system that there is a monitor connected. People use this to start systems for diagnostic purposes when monitor isn't needed (study beep codes / diagnostic LED's), to evade the BIOS halt that occurs in --some-- systems where it beeps for bad VGA connection if a monitor isn't connected. I'm not sure it works in this case though, the OS won't find a monitor in its device list.

pbmaster · Aug 12, 2008, 06:54 PM

So in order to use multi GPU mode do I need Vista?
If my friend can't get his PC going with the 8800 GTS (G80) I gave him he's going to give it back...I'd like to give this a try.

AddSub · Aug 12, 2008, 06:57 PM

btarunr, interesting solution. All my Trinitron monitors have dual switchable inputs and I got plenty of cabling, so I got it covered.

Have nVidia or Microsoft announced a fix for this Vista issue, since I assume this was not intended to work like this by design?

Also, has anyone done any Vista vs. XP comparisons yet? I assume there will be a performance penalty under Vista, just how big is the question.

newtekie1 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:13 PM

You don't have to have a second monitor attached. You can extend your desktop without a second physical monitor attached.

Flak · Aug 12, 2008, 07:25 PM

would this work with HD4850 as the gpu and an 8800gts as the physx?

newtekie1 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:25 PM

Yes, that would work.

Edit: It would only work in XP. Vista does not allow this.

wolf2009 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Yes, that would work.

no it dont think so . The physX drivers come through Nvidia Control Panel .

I may be wrong though.

alexp999 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:36 PM

So would it work, if I picked up one of these, put it in my rig, did the Vista workaround and set the 8400GS to Physx?

http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/VG...ProductID=2696

is it powerful enough to make a difference?

how would it compare to a proper physx card?

Cheers.

newtekie1 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf2009

no it dont think so . The physX drivers come through Nvidia Control Panel .

I may be wrong though.

And why wouldn't it work?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexp999

So would it work, if I picked up one of these, put it in my rig, did the Vista workaround and set the 8400GS to Physx?

http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/VG...ProductID=2696

is it powerful enough to make a difference?

how would it compare to a proper physx card?

Cheers.

Yes, the 8400GS should work, and your setup should accept it just fine. I believe the 8400GS is actually a little weaker than a normal PhysX card, mainly due to the 64-bit bus and slower memory. However, it shouldn't affect performance that much.

Chewy · Aug 12, 2008, 07:55 PM

Pretty sweet stuff! hopefully it really pays off! maybe I'll get a 8600gts for physics?

and Newtechie it might not work because its in the Geforce program, doubt they support Ati cards. but heh it might work :P

wolf2009 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

And why wouldn't it work?

How will you install ATI and NVIDIA Drivers at the same time ?

alexp999 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

And why wouldn't it work?

Yes, the 8400GS should work, and your setup should accept it just fine. I believe the 8400GS is actually a little weaker than a normal PhysX card, mainly due to the 64-bit bus and slower memory. However, it shouldn't affect performance that much.

just to check, this will only effect games which use physx right? I.e crysis is unaffected, but UT3, GRAW, etc will benefit? And you will in theory get better results with graphics cus its not doing physx on the main gpu..?

newtekie1 · Aug 12, 2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf2009

How will you install ATI and NVIDIA Drivers at the same time ?

It is pretty simple actually.

Step 1. Install ATi Drivers
Step 2. Install nVidia Driver

Yes it really is that easy.

Edit: This works in XP. It will not work in Vista.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexp999

just to check, this will only effect games which use physx right? I.e crysis is unaffected, but UT3, GRAW, etc will benefit? And you will in theory get better results with graphics cus its not doing physx on the main gpu..?

Correct, it will only affect games which use PhysX. As for better results, that depends. With the GTX260/GTX280, there is a dedicated spot on the die for CUDA apps, so graphical performance will be unaffected on those GPUs when PhysX is enabled. On lower cards, a portion of the Shader power is used, so graphical performance will suffer. In both cases, the framerate will go down anyway, as there is simply more stuff(particles, smoke, etc) to render, so there is a higher graphical load caused by the increased particle count.

alexp999 · Aug 12, 2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

It is pretty simple actually.

Step 1. Install ATi Drivers
Step 2. Install nVidia Driver

Yes it really is that easy.

Correct, it will only affect games which use PhysX. As for better results, that depends. With the GTX260/GTX280, there is a dedicated spot on the die for CUDA apps, so graphical performance will be unaffected on those GPUs when PhysX is enabled. On lower cards, a portion of the Shader power is used, so graphical performance will suffer. In both cases, the framerate will go down anyway, as there is simply more stuff(particles, smoke, etc) to render, so there is a higher graphical load caused by the increased particle count.

So getting an extra card wont actually affect performance on my setup cus the GTX260 already has its on bit for physx that doesnt affect graphical performance?
I may as well keep the money, cus the 8400GS wont actually improve anything...?
That what your saying?

Thanks.

wolf2009 · Aug 12, 2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexp999

So getting an extra card wont actually affect performance on my setup cus the GTX260 already has its on bit for physx that doesnt affect graphical performance?

I'm not sure, I haven't read that anywhere.

alexp999 · Aug 12, 2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf2009

I'm not sure, I haven't read that anywhere.

I'm confused too, cus then surely nvidia would have made a big fuss that their GTX200 series has a built in Physx processor (effectively).

Anyone on here test out performance in physx games with a GTx200 series and another nvidia card for the physx...?

btarunr · Aug 12, 2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf2009

How will you install ATI and NVIDIA Drivers at the same time ?

You can. There's nothing that prevents you from. They're detected by the OS as two display adapters, with either of them becoming primary (head 0). Haven't you come across systems where people used crappy PCI VGA cards on systems with onboard video, so as to add more display heads without having many AGP slots? it's the same. So you install both, the GeForce PhysX driver, make it render PhysX, voila! your GeForce card turned into a physics card a-la Ageia PhysX card.

FreedomEclipse · Aug 12, 2008, 08:13 PM

Damn it - that means i will need to start using my old X1800XT as my main G.card & running my 8800GTS as a physX engine - sod that. I was looking forward to this but after reading i dont think this is optimised for non multiple G.cards much but thats kinda understandable.

btarunr · Aug 12, 2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreedomEclipse

Damn it - that means i will need to start using my old X1800XT as my main G.card & running my 8800GTS as a physX engine - sod that. I was looking forward to this but after reading i dont think this is optimised for non multiple G.cards much but thats kinda understandable.

Why would you do that

the 8800 GTS eats X1800 without leaving bones (even while doing graphics + physics)

wolf2009 · Aug 12, 2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btarunr

Why would you do that

the 8800 GTS eats X1800 without leaving bones (even while doing graphics + physics)

Ya, 2nd that . LOL !

Bytor · Aug 12, 2008, 08:49 PM

I have a Asus P1 PhysX card installed on my DFI/Intel rig with a Visiontek 3870. I down loaded the Nvidia drivers for the PhysX card and it works great.

Would I be able to use in game PhysX with this setup?

The games that came with the PhysX card work fine on that rig..

wolf2009 · Aug 12, 2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor

I have a Asus P1 PhysX card installed on my DFI/Intel rig with a Visiontek 3870. I down loaded the Nvidia drivers for the PhysX card and it works great.

Would I be able to use in game PhysX with this setup?

The games that came with the PhysX card work fine on that rig..

I dont see why not, since its a PhysX card and it runs with PhysX drivers .

Even the drivers have an option of selecting "Geforce PhysX" or "Ageia PhysX" . So select Ageia PhysX and it will work just fine .

Chomes · Aug 12, 2008, 08:57 PM

I have download the drivers from the powerpack, however I can't enable GeForce Phsyx. The options it's disabled. What can it be?

Aug 12, 2008, 06:30 PM	#1
wolf2009 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MI Posts: 2,857 (3.04/day) Thanks: 251 Thanked 557 Times in 301 Posts System Specs	Read B4 going PhysX Crazy This is a must read for everyone intending to play with PhysX. This will solve a lot of your questions and problems that you are going to have. NVIDIA's GeForce PhysX implementation NVIDIA has created three sets of circumstances on how you can choose to use your PhysX setup from within the PhysX driver, let's have a look: Standard - one GPU renders both Graphics + PhysX (not ideal as you'll need a lot of GPU horsepower). SLI mode - have two GPUs render both Graphics + PhysX (SLI motherboard required) Multi-GPU mode - GPU1 renders Graphics and GPU2 renders PhysX (SLI motherboard not required) Below is an example pic of Most IMPORTANT Now there's a thing you will need to be aware of in the Multi GPU mode, it's actually a Vista limitation but a second monitor must be attached to enable PhysX running on the second GeForce GPU. You must extend your Windows Vista desktop onto that monitor. To bypass that issue, most monitors have a standard VGA and a DVI connector, right? Just use both. This limitation is related to the Windows Vista display driver model (WDDM). This limitation does not exist in Windows XP. In NVIDIA's upcoming drivers, they will be offering a workaround to improve the experience for Windows Vista users. In other words you do not need to have 2 monitors in XP, while in Vista you need 2 connections or you can bypass that with above trick. With a single card or two cards in SLI mode you will not have this problem. Please Leave a Thanks ! Taken from here __________________ *Read My Avatar's Story* Last edited by wolf2009; Aug 12, 2008 at 07:00 PM.

Aug 12, 2008, 06:45 PM	#2
wolf2009 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MI Posts: 2,857 (3.04/day) Thanks: 251 Thanked 557 Times in 301 Posts System Specs	__________________ *Read My Avatar's Story*

Aug 12, 2008, 06:50 PM	#3
btarunr News Editor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 12,167 (11.48/day) Thanks: 606 Thanked 4,749 Times in 2,606 Posts System Specs	Here's a trick: Use a DVI - DSub coverter dongle. The dongle routes back a ground power signal to the DVI even when there's no display connected to the D Sub. In essence you're fooling the system that there is a monitor connected. People use this to start systems for diagnostic purposes when monitor isn't needed (study beep codes / diagnostic LED's), to evade the BIOS halt that occurs in --some-- systems where it beeps for bad VGA connection if a monitor isn't connected. I'm not sure it works in this case though, the OS won't find a monitor in its device list. __________________ జై తెలంగాణా

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Aug 12, 2008, 06:54 PM	#4
pbmaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,985 (1.33/day) Thanks: 131 Thanked 295 Times in 275 Posts System Specs	So in order to use multi GPU mode do I need Vista? If my friend can't get his PC going with the 8800 GTS (G80) I gave him he's going to give it back...I'd like to give this a try. __________________ “pbmaster your tongue in your mouth speaks the truth” -von kain

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Aug 12, 2008, 06:57 PM	#5
AddSub Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 933 (0.63/day) Thanks: 7 Thanked 121 Times in 100 Posts System Specs	btarunr, interesting solution. All my Trinitron monitors have dual switchable inputs and I got plenty of cabling, so I got it covered. Have nVidia or Microsoft announced a fix for this Vista issue, since I assume this was not intended to work like this by design? Also, has anyone done any Vista vs. XP comparisons yet? I assume there will be a performance penalty under Vista, just how big is the question. __________________ EVGA X58 LE/3x SLI Owners Club {-} My Latest FS/FT/WTB Thread Free Games Thread {-} ATI doesn't exist anymore

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Aug 12, 2008, 07:13 PM	#6
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Aug 12, 2008, 07:25 PM	#7
Flak Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: US Posts: 222 (0.28/day) Thanks: 1 Thanked 50 Times in 37 Posts System Specs	would this work with HD4850 as the gpu and an 8800gts as the physx?

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Aug 12, 2008, 07:36 PM	#10
alexp999 Staff Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dorset, UK Posts: 6,728 (5.94/day) Thanks: 684 Thanked 916 Times in 784 Posts System Specs	So would it work, if I picked up one of these, put it in my rig, did the Vista workaround and set the 8400GS to Physx? http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/VG...ProductID=2696 is it powerful enough to make a difference? how would it compare to a proper physx card? Cheers. __________________ ASUS P45 Club [FS] [WTB] Heatware ebay Elite Lounge USB Boot Guide 3DMark Vantage My Rig XBOX Gamertag Steam ID Dad's: EVGA 750i FTW, E6600, F7Pro, 4GB, 8800GTS 640MB SLi, SST 750W, Commodore EVE Gallente Case

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Aug 12, 2008, 07:55 PM	#12
Chewy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 2,578 (1.70/day) Thanks: 266 Thanked 138 Times in 133 Posts System Specs	Pretty sweet stuff! hopefully it really pays off! maybe I'll get a 8600gts for physics? and Newtechie it might not work because its in the Geforce program, doubt they support Ati cards. but heh it might work :P __________________ BUGABUGABUGABUGAAAAA! From_Nowhere's perspective on Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Gates Promoting Windows Vista. “Mac: "Woah, what are you doing?" Mac says as he levitates in the air. PC: "Playing Half-Life 2, this is my gravity gun." Mac: "Well I can sort of do that." PC: "Technically Mac, you have to become me first."” -From_Nowhere

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Aug 12, 2008, 08:13 PM	#20
FreedomEclipse Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: (British Born Chinese) London, United Kingdom Posts: 3,280 (2.66/day) Thanks: 221 Thanked 315 Times in 281 Posts System Specs	Damn it - that means i will need to start using my old X1800XT as my main G.card & running my 8800GTS as a physX engine - sod that. I was looking forward to this but after reading i dont think this is optimised for non multiple G.cards much but thats kinda understandable. __________________

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Aug 12, 2008, 08:49 PM	#23
Bytor Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 984 (0.85/day) Thanks: 130 Thanked 107 Times in 101 Posts System Specs	I have a Asus P1 PhysX card installed on my DFI/Intel rig with a Visiontek 3870. I down loaded the Nvidia drivers for the PhysX card and it works great. Would I be able to use in game PhysX with this setup? The games that came with the PhysX card work fine on that rig.. __________________ Canon 40d Gripped ~ 10-22mm UWA ~ 24-105mm L ~ 50mm f1.8 ~ 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L ~ 430ex II Speedlite All the World's Indeed a Stage, We are Merely Players, Performers and Portrayers!! *3DMark06 23397 Super PI 9.297 sec**

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Aug 12, 2008, 08:57 PM	#25
Chomes Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Barcelona Posts: 73 (0.10/day) Thanks: 10 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts System Specs	I have download the drivers from the powerpack, however I can't enable GeForce Phsyx. The options it's disabled. What can it be?

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